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Ihmemies posted:How are you supposed to move stuff around in this game? If I want to make a "few" of something, it's pain in the rear end to collect the materials since production is all around the base. Make more belts snaking through the base from end to other end? Moving poo poo with trains feels like shooting a fly with a BFG-9000, since I don't need that much volume. This question is really the core of the game. There are lots of ways to do it and they all present their challenges.
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Apr 27, 2024 14:10
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Ihmemies posted:How are you supposed to move stuff around in this game? If I want to make a "few" of something, it's pain in the rear end to collect the materials since production is all around the base. Make more belts snaking through the base from end to other end? Moving poo poo with trains feels like shooting a fly with a BFG-9000, since I don't need that much volume. SE's developer considers bot logistics to be easy mode so he both put them later in the tree (they're in the cryonite branch of the second space science) and there's a required secondary mod that makes logistic bots break constantly. You never need just a few of something. Eventually you need a lot of everything. Might as well set up the infrastructure now to make it at scale and also transport it around with belts or trains.
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Apr 27, 2024 14:17
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There’s an easy text file edit you can look up, to remove the bot attrition from the bot attrition mod. It’s not a big deal to just eat it though, there’s a network size floor for it kicking in so the 50 drones you left to do repair and replacement for each mining outpost aren’t going to overload and crash.
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Apr 27, 2024 21:57
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Ihmemies posted:How are you supposed to move stuff around in this game? If I want to make a "few" of something, it's pain in the rear end to collect the materials since production is all around the base. Make more belts snaking through the base from end to other end? Moving poo poo with trains feels like shooting a fly with a BFG-9000, since I don't need that much volume. If you really only need a few of something, just output it to a chest and drop by that chest to grab it, or snatch some off a random belt, and run it to where you need it on foot In practice, needing a few of something now usually later becomes needing a lot of it, so might as well just build some belt or train infrastructure for it. Even if it seems overkill now, you'll probably need it later. The real problem here is that you've scattered your production for various materials all over the base, and haven't left any room for carrying those materials from one place to another. Over the course of a game, you're going to need to move all sorts of materials all over the place, in quantities both small and large, so once people are experienced with the game they often end up designing their whole base around a layout that makes it easy to do that in some way.
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Apr 28, 2024 00:54
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Welp. I guess it means I'd better start thinking about building a new base then  Thanks!
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Apr 28, 2024 13:19
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Ihmemies posted:Welp. I guess it means I'd better start thinking about building a new base then You can retrofit it in to a certain extent. What I do when I'm starting a new mod is run my base as general spaghetti until I've got a sense of how things generally work in the mod and things are starting to get more complex. Then I build a bunch of train stations around the edges and route everything to those train stations, and use the trains to run all that stuff to a second, more organized base that receives all its basic materials via train. Once I've done that, then I can start building dedicated production outposts here and there to replace the basic production being done in my starting base. Since the new main base just receives everything via train anyway, it's possible to change out where those goods are actually coming from without actually having to change anything else. That in turn allows you to thin out the starting base a bit, giving you some flexibility to continue to use it for producing random little things you don't feel like building dedicated production areas for yet. That's the nice thing about rail-based layouts. Unlike belts, where each belt has to be a dedicated path from suppliers to destination, rail infrastructure is heavily shared so you can move your production around or add new production without having to change much.
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Apr 28, 2024 20:08
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Count Roland posted:This question is really the core of the game. There are lots of ways to do it and they all present their challenges. The Space Exploration solution is obviously point to point rockets, even on the same surface 
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Apr 28, 2024 23:07
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Tamba posted:The Space Exploration solution is obviously point to point rockets, even on the same surface 
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Apr 29, 2024 05:17
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Spaceships move basically for free between points on the same space surface. You can absolutely do a ship bus for your orbital platform.
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Apr 29, 2024 13:48
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Nullius report: I have finally researched Biochemistry 3, which gives me the ability to turn the cellulose I've been accumulating over the last few hours into sugar. However, between that and grass seed milling giving me even more sugar, I am now badly backed up on sugar and very short on the cellulose I need to feed my bacteria. So I'm going to stand up another little factory turning that sugar back into cellulose.
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May 1, 2024 02:06
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I really enjoyed my play of Nullius but I never finished it. I should get back to it sometime before Space Age drops.
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May 1, 2024 02:16
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I really enjoyed when you got to the part in Nullius where you can summon metal meteors from space. No more expanding outwards as patches are depleted, just slam a new meteor down in your iron ore patch when you are low
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May 1, 2024 02:26
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https://www.factorio.com/blog/post/fff-409 Beacons have diminishing returns now.
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May 3, 2024 12:07
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Diminishing returns, but a base effectiveness buff. If a machine is affected by less than nine beacons it'll work a bit better in 2.0, more than 9 it'll work a bit worse. And quality can boost that further. So there's more room to make bespoke designs, especially with things like the space platform adding new restrictions on space.
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May 3, 2024 13:00
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One of the things that I really like reading these is that it's obvious that they play the game. They aren't just listening to complaints by the loudest few on discord or reddit, the devs are actually, literally playing the game and trying to make it a better experience overall.
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May 3, 2024 13:12
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We'll have to see how this plays in practice, but I'm fairly optimistic. I think beacon designs will be desirable earlier in the game and have a longer design tail with more dimensions of scaling. Especially when you consider things like the infinite productivity researches and the multipath progression through the expansion, there's potential for greatly expanded creativity. I feel like mature 2.0 mods are going to get very mind-bending in some cases.
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May 3, 2024 14:52
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Plonking down 1-2 beacons for a big boost is much more appealing now
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May 3, 2024 18:05
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The funny thing about this kind of change is that a lot of Factorio-heads are 100% focused on UPS-optimization and they're complaining how this makes functionally no difference since they're so ultra-lategame brained. For people like me that value aesthetics way more this is great. I wonder what the other mathematically optimal layouts will end up with this, like max output per tile/watt/cost.
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May 3, 2024 18:20
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New Doc Jade video, torturing himself for our amusement. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lj17aGFp3lM
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May 3, 2024 18:42
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KillHour posted:New Doc Jade video, torturing himself for our amusement. I was curious as to why 12x9 specifically. The video just says it's the smallest map possible, but not why unless I missed something. Apparently it's necessary because it is the smallest rectangular footprint that will fit a rocket silo and power generation while the rocket builds. Silos are 9x9 and there's no power generation smaller than 3x3. However! some brave commenter is trying to make 11x9 work by building a rocket entirely on stored 2x2 accumulator power. You can apparently make it on 4 full accumulators squeezed in next to the silo if you mix in some efficiency modules. 4 accumulators + silo + power pole leaves a single tile of free space and so necessitates point-of-no-returning by paving over the water patch to fit everything. Plus it makes the overall logistics even worse, possibly with multiple steps needing to run on accumulator or steam battery power. Sounds wonderfully awful, glad I'm not the one doing it.
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May 4, 2024 13:57
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He said it at the end when he actually built the silo.
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May 4, 2024 14:11
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Ah, then I did in fact miss something.
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May 4, 2024 14:42
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I have used trains to move stuff around, dismantling all the enormously long belts my friend made. Next I need to figure out how to make stations with waiting booths. What is a proper way to build outposts? I made an outpost construction train containing materials and oil for flamethrowers. A requester chest loads up the train, and each slot in train has a definition of what it should contain. I travel to the site with train and robots build the track in front of me. Then I copy paste walls, station, miners etc and plop down some roboports and they do the job. This still takes some time because robots don’t know how to fill water tiles. Do you use separate oil/ammo trains to service outposts with more, or how do you keep them topped up?
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May 10, 2024 06:26
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It's a bit boring, but a pretty common thing to do is to establish a border and wipe out all the biters inside it entirely. Then any given outpost only has things flowing in one direction - your mining outposts ship ores to your base, while your border forts receive ammunition and repair packs from the base.
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May 10, 2024 07:51
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https://factorio.com/blog/post/fff-410 Rocket turrets. Turret target filters. Turrets on circuit network. I'm getting very curious what the new enemies might look like.
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May 10, 2024 13:16
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Ihmemies posted:Do you use separate oil/ammo trains to service outposts with more, or how do you keep them topped up? I always prefer to run separate 1-1 flamethrower fuel, ammo, and replacement-parts trains and set all the receiving stations for each of them to only turn on when there’s a shortage there. That way they can all share the same name, so you don’t have to manually add destinations to the resupply trains. You can put flamer fuel and ammo on the same train but you’re going to be sending out a lot more ammo resupply missions than fuel missions, so you’re just hauling around your mobile fuel reserve around constantly to no real purpose. It’s a stylistic choice only; as long as your on-site fuel tanks are set to request early enough you won’t run out on the front lines unless you’ve got trains stuck and blocking traffic, which having separate supply trains won’t help with. The buildings-replacement train is the big deal to me, it will be needed rarely but when walls or turrets are getting destroyed it will always notice even if you didn’t and go drop off more. This was particularly useful on SpaceEx runs where traveling from planet to planet is more elaborate, expensive, and time-consuming than you want, to just go fix one thing.
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May 10, 2024 15:54
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You could just dedicate a slot in your resupply train to barrels. You don't need much and a logistics resupply train is already mixed contents so it's a cleaner alternative to having an entire fluid wagon dedicated to tiny refills. It's one of the rare great use cases for barrels since fluid wagons came into existence.
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May 10, 2024 17:17
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There's really only three things barrels are useful for, and that's one of them. The others are delivering small amounts of lube to the production hub, and kickstarting a coal liquefaction setup. Although I wonder if this is going to change with some of the new buildings and processes if they don't overhaul the pipe system - directly connecting barreling machines to refineries and chemical plants can technically move more liquid via bots than pipes can unless you have a pump between every pipe, and right now short pipe runs can still keep up with the fastest beaconed chemical recipes, so it's rarely necessary for moving bulk amounts of liquids. I noticed the range for the rocket turret and wondered how that interacted with nukes - turns out nukes have a 35 tile blast radius, so if your nuke turret shoots at anything closer than max range (on default quality) it'll nuke itself. The spidertron rocket launcher also has the same range as the turret.
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May 10, 2024 17:41
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I think the fluids/pipe system is one of the very few things the game that just doesn't work that well. It's so easy to accidentally connect two pipes and just gently caress your system in a way that's difficult to troubleshoot. I'd love to see this system be improved.
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May 10, 2024 18:23
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At least there’s a button to clear the pipes completely now. It was far more frustrating before that.
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May 10, 2024 18:52
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necrotic posted:At least there’s a button to clear the pipes completely now. It was far more frustrating before that. Woah woah woah, hold on now What button is that?
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May 10, 2024 19:15
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Count Roland posted:Woah woah woah, hold on now If you click on a pipe there's an icon (I think a trashcan?) that will empty all the fluids out of that run of pipe. It's been there for quite a while.
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May 10, 2024 19:27
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Its also much harder to connect pipes with different liquids in them as well now I believe? I haven't had an accidental contamination issue in a while, its all been design errors that require purging pipes to get the correct fluid in them.
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May 10, 2024 19:44
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The Locator posted:If you click on a pipe there's an icon (I think a trashcan?) that will empty all the fluids out of that run of pipe. It's been there for quite a while. Yup, this. I think it came in just before 1.0 with their big QoL push and when they realized the new fluid system wasn’t going to happen.
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May 10, 2024 19:45
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They also salt pipe networks to prevent you from hooking up incompatible networks now. Not perfect but easily fixed with the toilet flush button.
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May 10, 2024 19:53
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These changes were really good and the made the fluid system a lot less painful, but to me they still feel like bandaids. Mind you, I have absolutely no idea what would make the fluid system better/more fun.
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May 10, 2024 20:59
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I recently got back into Factorio. My previous experiences were well before 1.0 so I'm not used to some of these changes. I'd been getting used to using pumps to purge my lines of undesired fluids. This button will be a blessing.
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May 10, 2024 21:23
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You probably won't even need it, you almost have to actively try to mix fluids because the game will just not let you in most cases. I think what gets screwed up most often is when there's unset recipes or recipes changed by blueprint, since the game doesn't know what to not allow to mix.
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May 10, 2024 21:35
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Xerol posted:You probably won't even need it, you almost have to actively try to mix fluids because the game will just not let you in most cases. I think what gets screwed up most often is when there's unset recipes or recipes changed by blueprint, since the game doesn't know what to not allow to mix. Well I did it twice in quick succession on my current save so it's certainly still possible.
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May 10, 2024 21:46
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Darox posted:You could just dedicate a slot in your resupply train to barrels. You don't need much and a logistics resupply train is already mixed contents so it's a cleaner alternative to having an entire fluid wagon dedicated to tiny refills. It's one of the rare great use cases for barrels since fluid wagons came into existence. Honestly while the barrels system is kinda weird, I'd rather have it than NOT have it. It's an option and gives the option to do silly things if needed. After playing FOUNDRY, I really was frustrated that it had no long-range fluid transfer and you just had to use pipes everywhere.
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May 10, 2024 22:39
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