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Teledahn
May 14, 2009

What is that bear doing there?


ModeSix posted:

Some of the poo poo that Dytech adds just seems unnecessary.
...and you'd be right about that.

Fans posted:

Tree Collision Box
http://www.factorioforums.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=12365

Why? It lets you run through forests without bumping into a tree every five cocking seconds.

This should be in the OP.

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Teledahn
May 14, 2009

What is that bear doing there?


Also making sure your factories run off Solar, then Accumulator, THEN Steam power.

Or has that been changed?

Teledahn
May 14, 2009

What is that bear doing there?


I was reading the 'Tips' at the end of the Factorio Cheat Sheet and I'm having a hard time figuring this one out;

quote:

"You can build rails outside your normal build range as long as you start inside the range."
I understand it says that while placing rails you have a longer range, but I'm having a hard time understanding the comment about what that limit or range is.

Teledahn
May 14, 2009

What is that bear doing there?



Today I received a package. From the Czech... Republic? I don't know anyone in the Czech Republic. :iiam:




I didn't know there are official Factorio shirts!




This is the engineer by official cannon. :hmmyes:

Teledahn
May 14, 2009

What is that bear doing there?


VostokProgram posted:

But why did you get it? Did you do something with the devs?

No, I ordered it. I like the game. Buying the one copy doesn't quite feel enough. That line about not knowing about the shirt was a joke.

There's a link on the main page. https://factorio.com/store

Teledahn
May 14, 2009

What is that bear doing there?


Galvanik posted:

Was she ever? ... kind of surprised I missed that.

A poster here was saying that some of the language she was using to describe the biters relentless approach against her defences (and inevitable destruction) bore a certain similarity to language used by some central US Trump supporters describing immigrants. I believe this might be more related to KoS living somewhere in the center of the states and sharing the same language and idioms. I've hardly seen the majority of her recent content but I can confidently say I haven't noticed her expressing any worrying views, with the possible exception of a veiled enthusiasm for tentacles.

I joined their faux-MMO factorio event, which was a bit of fun. Given the chance I'll try to join the next one.

Teledahn
May 14, 2009

What is that bear doing there?


Factorio is truly the best environmental survival simulator.

The environment has poor chances.

Teledahn
May 14, 2009

What is that bear doing there?


Alternately, solve the output problem with the stock inclusion of a flare stack to burn off excess oil products at a huge pollution cost. Integrates more with the challenge of pollution expansion and biter defence vs design efficiency and scaling.

Teledahn
May 14, 2009

What is that bear doing there?


I wish Disco Science was integrated into the core game.

Teledahn
May 14, 2009

What is that bear doing there?


AG3 posted:

You can't rotate batteries! It is very clearly indicated which way they go when you look inside, if you put them in the wrong way the device doesn't work! That's just science!

Have you ever tried putting them in.... sideways?

Teledahn
May 14, 2009

What is that bear doing there?


Oh gods I just realized all my roundabouts are signaled backwards. Even with four trains running on a network smaller than the area covered by innate radar coverage I didn't have any issues until I was reviewing all my blueprints.

Speaking of Blueprints, I was just going to ask about a utility to share blueprints between games and I noticed there's a string export built into the game. Factorio devs are the best devs.

E: Quick question, how do I cancel deconstruction orders?

Teledahn fucked around with this message at 06:01 on Oct 22, 2019

Teledahn
May 14, 2009

What is that bear doing there?


VictualSquid posted:

That rainbow science setup he used is amazing.

And watching the way he builds his rail network is almost physically painful.

Please elaborate.

Teledahn
May 14, 2009

What is that bear doing there?


What is the thread consensus on automatic train refueling? I’m hoping for something more sophisticated than a box/belt and an inserter at every station. Is it possible to program it to divert to a coaling station when at 1/3 capacity or something?

Teledahn
May 14, 2009

What is that bear doing there?


Factorio one of the best games that is pretty terrible at teaching how it works. The integrated blueprint library is amazing. Heck, I'm wondering what else I don't know.

Teledahn
May 14, 2009

What is that bear doing there?


TasogareNoKagi posted:

In my day, blueprints were items, and we had to build each one.
And we had to kill bugs to research the rocket ... kids these days.

That's the thing, these are both facts I remember. The redesign of the research beakers is pretty obvious but also very well designed. I've been treating blueprints in that old fashion; as items created and collected over the course of a playthrough until the spaghetti eats all the ore. I've been rediscovering logic circuits and trains and the results have been pretty amazing, which combined with a growing library of blueprint puzzle pieces has been making some elements of growth extremely smooth.

The biters cannot withstand such industry.

Teledahn
May 14, 2009

What is that bear doing there?


Arrath posted:

I like to have my mines as the first level of defense, at least 3 staggered rows of mines deep, like the 5-spot on a dice. Spread out a bit, a few tiles between each one. Then some dead space, then a double layer of checkerboarded walls which slow the biters just at flamethrower and gun turret range. Behind the checkerboard, another smaller layer of mines, then the real wall with the turrets behind it.

Its pretty overbuilt, but I like going overboard. 5 rows of mines as the first layer will decimate the majority of attacks before they even get into turret range.

Would you post a screenshot? That sounds pretty overbuilt but also formidable.

Teledahn
May 14, 2009

What is that bear doing there?


Friday Facts #324 was posted. Trees moving in the wind, biters getting better sound, optimisations.

All of that is pretty good to say the very least. Nearly always some pretty great things to read in these.

Teledahn
May 14, 2009

What is that bear doing there?


Solumin posted:

It honestly annoys me way more than it should that 2xN is the best nuclear layout, instead of getting to do cool square designs.

On the subject of nuclear power: despite 2xN being the best layout, it seems each layout for a particular value of N is unique, given the small size of the reactor and the huge number of turbines per reactor. At least, if there is I cannot figure it.

Post your favourite reactor layout?

Teledahn
May 14, 2009

What is that bear doing there?



I'm in somewhat of a similar scenario to you. My current game is on a wide ribbon-- 14 chunks tall (two radars base coverage) which is generous enough that I don't have to be super-compact but does force the use of trains and means relatively limited defensive perimeters will suffice. (That said it was touch-and-go for a bit with only minimally-upgraded piercing ammo before blue science spooled up.) I've actually launched my first rocket with this base, despite owning this game for [REDACTED]. Also my 140th rocket. Anyway, this was a pure vanilla run which has certainly made me miss squeak-through, but I've certainly learned a lot; automatic train scheduling (and the limitations thereof), basic nuclear power systems, bot based construction and logistic systems, more advanced blueprint features and building my own library, power armor... basically all the built-in solutions to all the difficulties that prevented me from progressing past the spaghetti and optimisation paralysis that building everything by hand always choked my previous games. I feel like I've really learned a lot and have some comments that might help.

Nuclear: It's easier than it seems.
-Reactors will always burn a fuel rod in 200 seconds. This is the only place energy can be lost; if the reactor is at 999 degrees then heat is being lost. This only matters if you have very limited U235 production.
-Reactors heat each other both for the neighbour-production bonus but also for further transmission into heat-pipes or heat exchangers. You don't need to draw heat directly out of each reactor if it can be transmitted out another way.
-Large reactor designs are more about pumping sufficient water IN than getting steam out.
-You also don't need much uranium, one centrifuge refining ore should produce enough U235 naturally to fuel a single reactor, if you reserve the first few pieces and build a Kovarex loop you will quickly be swimming in the stuff. I have had 5 centrifuges running on that and have built up 3-4 steel chests full. Not sure what to do with it all. Make sure you don't spend all the basic 238 on ammo though, it's useful to keep a small quantity in reserve.
I've been scaling up a 2xN design by occasionally adding an inserter to fuel another reactor when capacity starts lowering. Water delivery is the most pressing issue than power wastage and I'm producing 500+MW continuously without seeing much drop in steam levels.


I would add a comment about trying to run a scalable train delivery system without mods or global circuit network but I'll just say it doesn't work without consistent oversupply. I think it can work but I need to rework a few things in my track routing.

Regarding construction robots: The faster one can get to not building things by hand, the better. The game's tagline is 'Automation in progress' for a reason.

E: I can absolutely remember uranium isotope numbers off the top of my head and am never wrong.

Teledahn fucked around with this message at 19:32 on Dec 28, 2019

Teledahn
May 14, 2009

What is that bear doing there?


Ambaire posted:

Just so noone gets confused when reading that post, it's U238 (dark green ingame) that's the common one (and used for ammo) and U235 (bright glowing green ingame) that's the uncommon.

Whoops! You are entirely correct and I got them backwards. Will edit post.

Also, latest FFF. Scrapping the new tutorial because it's not focused enough on automation and the spirit of the game. Hmm... I see what he means but not sure I agree in going back to the old tutorials.

Teledahn fucked around with this message at 19:38 on Dec 28, 2019

Teledahn
May 14, 2009

What is that bear doing there?


Dr. Stab posted:

I was just preempting the response. Typically people want their trains to run more frequently because they see that the base is empty and there's a train half full sitting on the mine, so why shouldn't the train go back right now?

The problem with this scenario can be reduced to 'not enough supply' which is remedied by more mining/smelting/production. If you're dealing with very low throughputs, simply adding 'OR wait 2 minutes' to train orders should suffice, assuming the issue of automatic fueling has been addressed.

Teledahn
May 14, 2009

What is that bear doing there?


KillHour posted:

I've gotten 600 U238 and 1 U235. Goddamn RNG!

You gotta get those numbers up, those are rookie numbers!

Teledahn
May 14, 2009

What is that bear doing there?


Put belt immunity equipment in your spidertrons.

Teledahn
May 14, 2009

What is that bear doing there?


It is funny. However I find it annoying to have the vehicle wiggling about. I'm annoyed I didn't think of the belt immunity equipment before.

Teledahn
May 14, 2009

What is that bear doing there?


RabbitWizard posted:





This is the nicest looking thing I made so far in this game :neckbeard:

So are those wiggles... for fun or... what...

Teledahn
May 14, 2009

What is that bear doing there?


I keep thinking I should install this mod, for that very same reason.
https://mods.factorio.com/mod/power-grid-comb


What mod is that providing those concreted-in rails?

Teledahn fucked around with this message at 07:09 on Nov 17, 2020

Teledahn
May 14, 2009

What is that bear doing there?


For an example of small scale 'absolute reference' BPs. I present this little number:



6 miners in a grid, easy to tile to fill ore deposits of any size. Provides pretty much maximum mining density and is easy to use. Only pre-requisite is it only works with medium power poles.

Well, and something to fill the BP with, like robots.

Teledahn
May 14, 2009

What is that bear doing there?


Today in 'Hidden features I didn't know Factorio had':

The player has a hidden blueprint book of all the past items that have been copied:
Hit Ctrl-C (or use the 'copy' quickbar button) then use your mouse scroll-wheel to roll through all the past items you've copied. This history (I assume) is save specific and persists through play sessions.

These devs, I swear. They're just great. I need to go buy another Factorio shirt or something.

Teledahn
May 14, 2009

What is that bear doing there?


Qubee posted:

Just hit nuclear for the first time ever, it's really fun. ... scratching my head trying to figure out how to set up a circuit network to only ever feed a single fuel cell into the reactors whenever steam gets below a certain point, ...



Alternately, install the mod 'Reactor Interface' by our very own GotLag. Link to mod-portal It provides a circuit wire connection point to read the available fuel rods, current temperature, and seconds remaining for current fuel rod. Blends well with vanilla and is something I wish was part of the base game, much cleaner than goofy stock solutions.

Teledahn
May 14, 2009

What is that bear doing there?


BMan posted:

No, unless it's nuclear, then yes

And even then, not really. Running centrifuges will provide sufficient material for reactor fuel rods at a 1-centrifuge to 1-reactor ratio, before kovarex kicks in. Afterwards, you may as well not worry about it, unless you need hundreds of thousands of Uranium rounds.

Teledahn
May 14, 2009

What is that bear doing there?


VostokProgram posted:

Solar is more UPS efficient, which matters at megabase scale. Those fluid calculations add up

This is bad advice for 95+% of players and factories. UPS is best ignored until you literally have a megabase. Is your game running at full speed? If yes, build more reactors.

Teledahn
May 14, 2009

What is that bear doing there?


Renegret posted:

It's still something nice to be aware of though.

VostokProgram posted:

Yeah that's why I said "matters at megabase scale"

You're right and I don't mean to be calling you two out but I get frustrated seeing advice about being 'UPS-Efficient' directed at players whom are operating nowhere near the relevant limits for factorio updates-per-second. I feel this results in players that avoid developing their own organic solutions and just follow along with 'wisdom' without considering the wider context.

Solar vs Nuclear is an excellent example. Solar requires 10 to 20 (to more) times the resources and what may as well be infinitely times more real-estate to reach power equivalency. Yet most large bases we see are powered by solar. Why? I would argue that a much larger portion of players use solar because they think it's the required option than because they experience actual issues from fluid and heat calculations impacting their experience.

This is not ideal. Players should use all the tools at hand and in particular new and less experienced players being pigeonholed into using the inefficient, less challenging, frankly boring option of infinite tiles of solar panels route is probably negatively impacting their enjoyment and stifling creativity in this fun multi-dimensional puzzle game we call Factorio.


I should note, this is completely ignoring the pollution VS biters angle. I haven't played much with sufficiently aggressive and dense biters to pose much of a challenge once I got past Yellow/Purple science.

Also, perhaps a third power option might be of value, because everybody retires their steam engines eventually. Maybe a power efficient but polluting power plant accepting a fluid input of light oil or petrogas?

Teledahn fucked around with this message at 08:37 on Nov 25, 2020

Teledahn
May 14, 2009

What is that bear doing there?


The more I think about the more I realize it's a little weird there's so few power generation options.

1- Steam Engines, with:
-Wood (I wish wooden crates and small power poles too, but alas)
-Coal (The most popular option)
-Solid Fuel (I'm suddenly curious what percent of players make this move)
-Rocket Fuel or for extra spice, Nuclear Fuel (It's like gold plating everything you own)

2- Solar, for when you have more steel, green circuits, and unnecessary land than you know what to do with.

3- Nuclear, when the spicy rocks are calling.


An additional mid-to-late-game option would be neat. Maybe something to strike a balance between the complex, resource efficient, and low pollution Nuclear and simple but sprawling and non-polluting Solar.

Teledahn
May 14, 2009

What is that bear doing there?


I've never bothered to configure ultra-efficient Kovarex systems. Once each process centrifuge receives their seeding 40 pieces they'll repeat until they have ~80 in internal storage. It's ideal to manually move this to seed more centrifuges but once they're all full it's just a fountain of U-235 and nukes and nuclear fuel for everyone. Eeking out a teeny bit of extra efficiency in earlier steps is less appealing than 'more miners and centrifuges'.



Yes I know my ore refining line here is empty. As you can see from storage that's not important at the moment.

Teledahn
May 14, 2009

What is that bear doing there?


I think my dumbest power issue I've caused had recently was when I was expanding my sole power source (dual reactor) by adding heat exchangers to use the full heat/power being produced. After running the water and steam lines and adding a few more turbines I connected two new heat exchanger banks to the currently maxed-out-on-heat reactors. Then I proceeded to wander off elsewhere.

My first signal anything was amiss was the sudden and complete failure of available power, which when you're running on a sole nuke plant is a bit of an adventure to recover from, especially when it's networked into hundreds of robotports suddenly unable to feed their charging circuits. I was puzzled for a while how the system had failed since there was still fuel rods in the requester chests inserter-feeding the reactors. After manually refueling, I remember having to remove pumps and replumb the lines to get water to steam to turbine to power my factory. In the middle of this I realized the cause of the collapse. Adding the extra exchangers had done just what I wished, raised capacity and allowed the use of more reactors heat production. Evidently sufficient to pull enough heat out into the new heat pipes to drop the temperature at the exchangers below 500 degrees, halting steam generation and cutting power as effectively as a switch. All the pumps so useful and critical to ensure sufficient fluid flow became closed valves, and the robot network discharged, causing a start-up load of fifteen times the reactor's designed scratchbook capacity. That was a frustrating wait until the robots charged up and everything went green.

My next reactor iteration had steam tanks.

Teledahn
May 14, 2009

What is that bear doing there?


Qubee posted:

I personally found the jump from steam engines to nuclear a bit jarring. It would have been a smoother transition if there was an extra step between them. ...

Fishbus posted:

From a design point of view, yeah, that is the big problem from steam to nuclear: You get inundated with new things to make, organize and produce uniquely.

The best way to solve it would be to have other systems or objects use some of the items. E.g. I have steam turbine miners which use steam turbines, so it lessens the blow.

Heat pipes and boilers would be nice if there's something, perhaps there are "nuclear energy" like thermal/lava outlets that allow you to connect heat pipes up to them before you have the nuclear power stuff.

There's the whole other slew of things to do with getting uranium ore and processing it, if there were earlier uses for uranium then that would help soften that edge.

Basically you are slamming into a huge wall of STUFF, that you have to 1) set up, 2) process, 3) make a mining station, 4) weird new liquid mining stuff, 5) a bunch new buildings with their own piping systems. There's nowhere you can really slot it into an existing setup, and on top of that you have to produce a whole bunch of unique items that are only really used for just the task of nuclear fuel.

My thought, like mentioned before is to 1) have other uses for uranium possibly BEFORE nuclear power, 2) have uses for turbines/heatpipes/boilers for some world like object to tap heat from, and 3) More uranium recipes (ammo types, fuels, health, tech, etc)

These are all great points and I'm really enjoying reading this discussion!



M_Gargantua posted:

Feeding furnaces off of heat pipes from a nuclear reactor sounds like a very factorio thing and now I want it.

Holy poo poo.
Wow. Is such a thing possible? I am glowing with anticipation.

Teledahn
May 14, 2009

What is that bear doing there?


SkyeAuroline posted:

No, just an idea/suggestion I floated. It's not in the game and I don't even know if there's a mod for it.

I know friend, my comment was hypothetical. Given the heat exchanger is already translating water to steam in the same manner as the standard (combustion) boiler. Presumably this means that it is (hypothetically) possible to adapt absorbing heat from heatpipes in furnace-equivalents.

Hypothetically. I've never actually looked into modding Factorio so I'm just assuming it's all easy. (It's probably not easy)

Teledahn
May 14, 2009

What is that bear doing there?



I love this. This is Factorio art. I'm going to print this out and put it on my wall.

(Please continue to post updates.)

Teledahn
May 14, 2009

What is that bear doing there?


queeb posted:

im dumb and thought the factory things couldnt do larger than 2 item recipes so i was confused as hell until i realized i could just pick whatever in the list for them to make

Not too long ago, you would have been right. I think it was one of the last major updates before release removed that limit.

Also congrats on automating your second science pack! It gets fun from here.

E: It still sounds weird to say 'release' about a game I've been playing for most of a decade.

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Teledahn
May 14, 2009

What is that bear doing there?


I'm sure everyone here who was fond of Friday Factorio Facts (FFF) was sad to hear they ended regular updates with release. I present the community managed attempted replacement. Alternate Factorio Fan Facts! (Alt-F4)

I cam across it the other day and although it's a bit rough at the beginning and some of the writing occasionally takes a second read, there's some really neat stuff in there and I recommend it if you enjoyed and miss regular FFF posts.

I particularly liked the post highlighting the Space Exploration mod. I'm going to have to try it once I finish stop my current factory.


PS. Click on the Spidertron at the bottom of their pages. Trust me.

Teledahn fucked around with this message at 00:17 on Jan 10, 2021

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