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Those scouts are wearing garrison caps, not berets. Important difference I know.
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May 6, 2014 23:36
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This is a really cool LP. I've always heard that the series had a good backstory that is barely touched in the games, so it's great to actually see these games as being part of this huge, pessimistic history of the future. I own 2, 3, and Mercenary, but the only one I was close to finishing was 2, although I gave up before they patched the final boss to be easier.
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May 6, 2014 23:51
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Kangra posted:Another note: 'Seraph' is Hebrew in origin, not from Latin. Dr. Tough posted:Those scouts are wearing garrison caps, not berets. Important difference I know. Ah, good catches. Fixed. Minor, sure, but it's nice to know I made a mistake so I can correct it. Thanks. (It looks like I mixed up the origins of "seraph" with "seraphic", which has Church Latin origins, when researching the etymology). And yeah, the final boss of Killzone 2 is hell. They are quite literally the only reason I was unable to get a trophy for having beaten the game on Veteran difficulty. I was pretty miffed at having to bump back down to Hard to see the final cutscene, though admittedly, they're also a handful on Normal--and this is after the difficulty was patched.
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May 7, 2014 06:48
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This is pretty great, as I too enjoyed Terry's threads on Transformers, glad to see someone taking a similar approach to a Let's Play. Though Killzone might not have been what I would have picked, it certainly fits the criteria for it, and I'll be interested to see where this goes. I'm fairly willing to actually buy into the idea that the games are deeper than most people realize. I myself only played a small bit of Killzone 2 and 3, barely making it past the first level in each, but I do own a Vita and have beaten Killzone Mercenary a couple times. And that game does support a lot of the ideas that you're positing about the Helghast and ISA being not-so-different from one another. If I had any possible way to record the footage I would definitely try but Sony really locked the Vita down in terms of what you can do with it without jailbreaking the hell out of it. Also not sure if this came up in the Star Wars: SotE thread but is there a particular reason why all your videos are unlisted on youtube? IBlameRoadSuess fucked around with this message at 22:15 on May 9, 2014 |
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May 9, 2014 21:51
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The idea that the Helghast control some sort of trade chokepoint in space is kind of funny.
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May 9, 2014 22:24
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IBlameRoadSuess posted:Also not sure if this came up in the Star Wars: SotE thread but is there a particular reason why all your videos are unlisted on youtube? The initial idea we had was the LPs were supposed to be accessible only through Something Awful. Though I suppose it's kind of silly idea and is a little harder to justify now that SotE is up on the LP Archive for all to see. If there's a large public outcry for it, I'll make the videos public, but for now you can just chalk it up to "crow is kinda weird like that".  EDIT: Also, it's SHAMEFUL PLUG TIME! We're in the midst of recruiting co-commentators for upcoming videos. If you feel like you have something semi-relevant to say about Killzone, or anything in general, or you just want to be a part of this whole experience and gain FABULOUS WEALTH AND WORLD-WIDE RECOGNITION from helping a pair of jackasses tweak a first-person shooter franchise for the internet, then fire off a PM to Blind Sally or email me at ninegearcrowsa @ gmail . com and we'll see about working something out. nine-gear crow fucked around with this message at 00:01 on May 10, 2014 |
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May 9, 2014 23:55
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IBlameRoadSuess posted:I'm fairly willing to actually buy into the idea that the games are deeper than most people realize. I myself only played a small bit of Killzone 2 and 3, barely making it past the first level in each, but I do own a Vita and have beaten Killzone Mercenary a couple times. And that game does support a lot of the ideas that you're positing about the Helghast and ISA being not-so-different from one another. If I had any possible way to record the footage I would definitely try but Sony really locked the Vita down in terms of what you can do with it without jailbreaking the hell out of it. Yeah, I've been think about that myself. I think it could potentially work with a decent video camera positioned correctly. Squack McQuack's WarioWare DIY is done on a DS with a video camera and it comes out looking pretty good. I've seen a couple of YouTube KZ:M LPs that look half decent and just need the brightness turned up. But yeah, I'm pretty unwilling to shell out the money for a Vita then shell out even more and ship it to a third-party company to have an HDMI port or something installed into it--which would be what I'd have to do since I lack the resources or know-how to jailbreak anything myself. Oh, and yeah, to echo crow, the unlisted videos are an SA exclusivity thing. Someone asked "why?" in the SOTE thread, but no one seemed really bothered by it, so we've continued to do it. MassRafTer posted:The idea that the Helghast control some sort of trade chokepoint in space is kind of funny. I like to imagine it's kind of like how in The Phantom Menace, the Trade Federation set up a blockade of Naboo by putting a ring of ships around the planet's equator.
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May 10, 2014 18:58
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MassRafTer posted:The idea that the Helghast control some sort of trade chokepoint in space is kind of funny. Honestly, we dont know how large the killzone universe is. Like, we know about earth, vekta and helghan . I assume there are ton more worlds that have been colonized or that have their own independent planet states. So maybe most planets view helghan as a space North Korea or space Iran, hell even space Gaza strip.
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May 10, 2014 19:09
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The game timeline mentions at least one other colony planet (Gyre in the Altair system). If I were to seriously try and guess what made Helghan a chokepoint planet, it probably go something like this: Though powerful, human space crusiers probably aren't advanced enough to handle sustained and uninterrupted spaceflight past certain distances. That the Helghast have a space chokepoint is probably because ships don't have the range to continue onto other colonies without first stopping to refuel on Helghan.
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May 11, 2014 06:56
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Blind Sally posted:The game timeline mentions at least one other colony planet (Gyre in the Altair system). If I were to seriously try and guess what made Helghan a chokepoint planet, it probably go something like this: Pretty much this. They are basically sitting on the only fuel source future trade/colony ships have in the closest star system to Earth's. And remember, in the Killzone universe, they don't have Faster-than-light travel.  It takes ships about ten years to get to Helghan/Vekta. (assuming there haven't been any more advancements in propulsion technology that would allow ships to go faster.) The reason Helghan is a chokepoint isn't because of the territory, it's because it's literally the only place to get fuel for several light-years. Sure you could try to move past them while not getting any fuel, but what are you gonna do when you run out, in the middle of nowhere, or on a collision course with a planet, or the star in the system you're in? And even if Helghan isn't the only place to get fuel, it's certainly the closest, and I would think that even after 10 years your tank might be running a little low. And remember, even if you're dealing with just trade ships, and not colony ships, these things are taking around ten years to get to Helghan, then ten years to get back, or maybe a couple more years to get where they're going. Unlike in something like Star Wars; traveling between planets isn't something you can just DO. You can't press a button and zoom into hyperspace and appear above Gyre for a cup of tea around lunch time. Traveling between planets in the Killzone universe still takes YEARS. Though again, all of this is assuming nothing else really happens to space flight technology between like 2059 and whenever the heck the games take place. Oh and you know that fleet the UCN is sending to forcibly take Helghan? The Helghan and Vektan leaders know they're coming, and they've got around ten years to prepare for them. Sure they've got the Heavy Cruisers, which are still probably going to be an issue, but if you have ten years to prepare, build the biggest loving gun you can possibly build and hope to god it doesn't explode. Of course, I'm speaking as someone who doesn't know how the timeline goes from here. Earth's forces could get there and just wreck the Helghan's poo poo, but considering what we're looking at, in game, I doubt they managed a complete recapturing of Helghan and Vekta. IBlameRoadSuess fucked around with this message at 15:25 on May 11, 2014 |
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May 11, 2014 15:21
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The next update is almost ready, but there's no harm in a quick peek. Though the Helghan Administration and the wealthy people of Vekta are hoping to secure their independence, the ISA forces stationed in the colonies are still loyal to the UCN. When the Helghan Administration tried to co-opt them, it set off a conflict that drained their resources and prevented them from any major arms build up: The Earth fleet arrived only a few years after setting out. This is either a mistake on Guerrilla's part, because if I'm not mistaken, Alpha Centauri is approximately 4.5 lightyears away, or technological advances have brought ships close to reaching the speed of light. Actually, it could be that the UCN Fleet didn't launch from Earth and were already partway to the colonies. Regardless, it winds up being a massacre:  (The full update will be up soon).
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May 11, 2014 16:39
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IBlameRoadSuess posted:Pretty much this. They are basically sitting on the only fuel source future trade/colony ships have in the closest star system to Earth's. And remember, in the Killzone universe, they don't have Faster-than-light travel. Of course, considering that things might change in the future, maybe Earth has nothing to worry about. Discovering FTL technology would make Earth's superiority unmatched, since you'd have no time to prepare a proper defence fleet before the UCN arrived. Which might also explain Earth's desperate thirst for resources. I can't imagine research into breaking the laws of physics and relativity over their knee is exactly light on Earth's budget. I do find interesting that the ISA has such loyalty to Earth, though. Being Vektans and Helghans (in the 2100-2200s), they should theoretically have greater loyalty to their homes than far away Earth. Instead, Earth seems to avoid the problem of using native forces without issue. Perhaps they managed to institute the same kind of symbolism about Earth that permeates the Supreme Commander Universe. He who holds Earth is the rightful government of Mankind?
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May 11, 2014 17:01
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.jpg)
1.4 Amidst the ruins of Vekta City, ISA hold-outs hunker down in a shelled out building. Enter ISA soldiers. Enter [Templar] opposite. TEMPLAR Hail, soldier. ISA SOLDIER Captain Templar, we've been expecting thee. Our CO is yonder. Sergeant, Captain Templar is here. ISA SERGEANT Tis good to see you lived through the assault. General Vaughton hath said thee would be coming this-- ISA SOLDIER Helghast armour, closing in on thy position! ISA SERGEANT A pox upon the Helghast! Defend, soldiers, we must stand until our vehicles arrive. Hold your ground! ISA SOLDIER Craven malcontents, dost they bring tanks!? ISA SERGEANT Cover thy brain-pans. Look, Lancers! ISA SOLDIER Hurrah! Enter ISA soldier ISA SOLDIER Captain, over here. General Vaughton hath asked me to escort thou. Onward, to the command room, sir. Exeunt 1.5 Inside an ISA bunker, rocked by explosions. Enter General [Vaughton], [Templar], ISA Comm Officers and Vektan Soldiers VAUGHTON Bring General Adams these tidings: the security key tis presently on its way to me. I shalt be shuttling up in a-- FEMALE COMMS OFFICER T'will be within the hour, General. VAUGHTON --within the hour. I expect preparations to be complete when I arrive. ARI L. CALIBAN [over the comms] Yes, sir. Exit VAUGHTON God's blood! Well met, Jan! TEMPLAR Aye, General, tis most fortunate. How fares the battle? VAUGHTON Tis impossible to foresee with the comms as they are, But we face the Third Helghan Army led by a General Lente. If the villains persist in their deluge of troops, We may as well lay down our arms. TEMPLAR What a piece of work our SD Platforms, how sturdy in strength, How infinite in fortitude, in form and use how express and admirable, In action how like an angel, in apprehension how like a lump of solder. VAUGHTON Aye. TEMPLAR And what tis the latest? VAUGHTON General Adams is trying most admirably to repair them, But they must be completely reprogrammed. I must bring to his person the security key To override the control fail-safe. I await the key's arrival before departing. TEMPLAR And news from Earth? VAUGHTON The cavalry has been sent hitherward. We must hold til they arrive. Jan, I sought thee for a reason. A mission. I was hoping thou-- TEMPLAR What doth thou need of me? VAUGHTON An infield operations agent tis working for us behind enemy lines. A one Colonel Hakha. TEMPLAR A spy? VAUGHTON Infield agent. So aye, a spy. Not but three-hours ago, we received intelligence claiming he hath information Vital to our cause. He is now fighting alongside an ISA platoon in the slum's mall. Yet since, we have heard not a word. We need him. The enemy wants him. I believe our best chance is a-- TEMPLAR A small team travelling quickly. Understood, sir. I'm on it. An explosion rocks the stage. Exeunt  This update continues our trek through bombed-out city centres. Except now we get to experience infantry combat supported by armour. The advent of tanks changed the way wars were fought. They were the industrial revolution's equivalent of an armoured knight on horseback. The tank--oh god, someone else could explain this way better than I could. My knowledge of tank history is assuredly not as thorough as it could be, so I'll keep my point brief and succinct. Tanks were in WWI and provided support for infantry, but they were slow and unreliable, often getting bogged down in the muddy trenches of the battlefields. Advances in technology really made the tank come into its own in WWII, becoming a tool of war that could make or break battles. Being such a huge part of WWII, it's not surprising that tanks and other armoured vehicles are a major part of Killzone. Fortunately for Templar and co., they're going to be able to avoid most encounters with tanks usually arriving after a major battle has taken place. Unfortunately for the player, we won't get to see any sweet tank battles until the sequels when we actually get to drive vehicles. This update also contains numerous examples of Killzone's less than stellar AI and graphical hiccups.  This here is a fine example of Helghast tactics. Park an APC in the middle of a field and let the soldiers funnel out of the back single-file so that they can be picked off one by one. That, or blown up en masse by a rocket launcher as we opted to do.  Here we see the Helghast displaying the most modern battlefield tactics. Modelled after 16th century Earth warfare, one soldier fires then drops to their knees to reload while the soldier behind them fires. They then switch places and slowly advance up the line to--wait. They have automatic weaponry. I just--I don't even--Why are they--   Also, this happens a lot. Due to graphical restrictions (I'm assuming), Helghast bodies do not stay on screen indefinitely. Eventually they disappear into the ether leaving behind only their weapons. If you lost track during the fire fight, you can figure out how many Helghast you killed by counting the rifles left behind. It's like counting dogtags.  Okay, here's some actual interesting subtext. The ISA Lancers all have the ace of spades painted on them. Depending on who you ask, the ace of spades might have different connotations, but it generally seems to be known as the "death card". However, it's also considered the most valuable card in many card games, making it potentially really lucky. If I'm not mistaken, a number of airborne units in WWI wore the icon as a good luck charm. Contrariwise, it had a much more sinister role in the Vietnam War. American soldiers believed that Vietnamese superstition led to them viewing the ace of spades as terribly unlucky. I don't believe that's true, but that's unimportant--the Americans believed it so strongly that having the card boosted their morale. Bicycle even shipped over crates of cards containing only the ace of spades for the soldiers to use. They would place the cards on the bodies or in the mouths of dead North Vietnamese and Viet Cong soldiers. There are images on the internet, but they're pretty grim so look at your own risk. If you've ever watched Apocalypse Now, Robert Duvall's character partakes in this tradition after capturing the beachhead. destitute posted:Actually this looks a lot like the Special Operations Command emblem: Kangra posted:In the Ace of Spades analysis I think you meant World War II Airborne unit, and it was actually only one regiment of one division (the 506th Parachute Infantry, part of the 101st Airborne) that used spades as insignia. Each unit of the 101st marked their helmets with a card suit representing their regiment; in that case it's not really an ace of spades, just a spade.  And tucked away in the corner, we have some ISA soldiers who have been lined up and shot. A simple, yet effective image to help vilify the Helghast. Surely monsters like these deserve all the retribution that gets pointed at them, right? It's early yet in the game series, so we'll see if the ISA get the justice they're after or if they cross the line and become the villains they're trying to stop (hint: it's the latter).  Helghast standing in mid-air.  More graphical issues. That guy on the left, the back of his head looks like a giant raisin. Gross. Oh, and next to him is a token black guy. I wish that was a joke. You can count how many non-white people exist in the Killzone trilogy on one hand. You can also count the number of women in the Killzone trilogy on one hand.  Lastly, General Vaughton's horrible Muppet-mouth. I figure this was a graphical error, because even minor ISA soldiers, such as the comms officers, get rendered teeth. I can't believe they missed fixing it when redoing the HD version, though. I mean, they fixed a pillar that you could walk through in the upcoming office building level, but left in ol'General Gums here? Yikes.   Much like World War I, the First Extrasolar War was a relatively brief event only spanning a few years. However, like WWI, it would also wind up being extremely brutal and destructive. The Helghan Administration tries to exert its independence, but years of impositions and restrictions placed upon them by Earth and the ISA mean they're a far inferior force. They don't stand a chance, frankly. The UCA Navy Cruiser is massive. It's twice the size of an ISA Cruiser, which in turn is already larger than the Helghan Administration's Cruisers. This is partly due to budget constraints placed on the ISA, but also because Earth wishes to keep a stronger, more technologically advanced navy in reserve in case it ever needs to put down unrest in the colonies. Certainly, what better way to issue a silent threat than to build Navy with armaments twice the size of your own? The destruction of the massive orbital platform above Helghan has huge implications. At this point, no one was actually living on the planet's surface. There were resource extraction operations going on, absolutely, but people actually lived on the space platform. Now, the survivors of the war are going to have to either try and make a go at living on the surface, which while heavily irradiated and storm-blasted, is (mostly) suitable for human habitation, or surrender to the ISA and take refuge on Vekta.  Earth has got to be feeling pretty good right about now. After having sold the Alpha Centauri system to the Helghan Administration, they now have enough pretext to come in and take it back for themselves by force. Vekta belongs wholly to the UCN-managed ISA forces. IBlameRoadSuess posted:WELP. So much for my prediction. v  This is really interesting. One of the things about the Killzone universe seems to be about history repeating itself. After all, we're centuries in the future and living in space and here we are reliving World Wars I and II. This particular scenario, of Helghan people having to flee their planet and take refuge on Vekta, leading to terrorist attacks on the rival population mirror the plot of Killzone: Shadow Fall. I haven't played the game, so I don't know how far the comparisons hold, and venturing any further might be spoiler territory, but it looks as though Shadow Fall is an example of the game's history repeating itself. Which is kind of neat.   Voiced by Bob Sherman The four-star ISA general in charge of the ground defense of Vekta. Toothless. It bothers me that he's toothless. I'd like to think that was a mistake on Guerrilla's part, and yet they didn't fix it with the HD re-release. And so he remains toothless. Literally, not metaphorically. He has no teeth--and yet has no difficulty pronouncing words. Clearly a father-figure to Jan. I can't source it anywhere by the Killzone Wikia, so this may be from an art book or something BUT, apparently Jan's father, Dirk, died in the First Extrasolar War when Jan was just a boy. Vaughton and Dirk were close friends, so Vaughton took it upon himself to raise little Templar, leading the him to join the military like his father and entrenching the bond between him and Vaughton. crow says Vaughton looks like a normally proportioned John McCain, but I think he looks more like Dwight Eisenhower. And I mean, really, Killzone is all about historical military references. IBlameRoadSuess posted:
 Uncredited Briefly seen on the comm, this troubled ISA soldier is the comms officer on the SD Platform. Aside from all the stress present from the Helghast attack rendering his station completely defenseless, this soldier (dubbed Ari L. Caliban by crow and myself) is also going to be the brunt of General Adams' short-temper, seeing as how he'll be delivering news about every upset and set-back in the war. Stay tuned for further adventures with this loveable lunkhead!  Uncredited A token female. For a far-flung future society, there doesn't seem to be many military positions available for women. There's this comms officer, and one of our playable characters. That's it for Killzone 1. A third woman is added to the cast in Killzone: Liberation, and another two join by Killzone 3. I think Killzone: Shadow Fall adds another two women, but man, this series is awfully testosterone-laden. I kinda wish the ISA military was more like the one in Starship Troopers. Frankly, I find the portrayal of women and non-white races in the Killzone universe problematic, in that they're basically non-existent. I mean, how do you reconcile it? "IN THE FUTURE, THERE ARE ONLY WHITE MEN!" Either Guerrilla is just following the status quo and engaging in some deep-seated cultural tokenism, or they're making a conscious comment on something. But what is that something? Are they trying to deconstruct action movie tropes and military narratives? Are they trying to shine a light on our own society narratives? Is it a statement on the evils of homogeneity?   ISA Lancer Once again I demonstrate my lack of military knowledge by saying this looks like an M1 Abrams when some brief research shows it's more obviously modelled after the AMX-10RC. The Lancer is heavily armed and take down a Helghast Light Hover Tank with two shots. It's also relatively light, and it's 6x6 chassis allows it to travel at high speeds in urban settings, leading to it being used primarily as a police enforcement vehicle. While the Lancer is actually faster and more maneuverable in the city than either the Light Hover Tank or Hover APC, it's off-road capabilities are less than desirable and the ISA lost many of these vehicles to the Helghast fighting in the countryside, jungles, and beaches. In fact, if you look carefully throughout Killzone 1, you'll see many burned out Lancer wrecks! The ISA learned from the routing on Vekta and deploy different armoured vehicles in following games.  In true Blind Sally/nine-gear crow fashion, we can't run an LP without having failure of some sort rear its head:   KILLZONE!!!!  
Sally fucked around with this message at 02:34 on Mar 7, 2015 |
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May 11, 2014 18:10
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IBlameRoadSuess posted:It takes ships about ten years to get to Helghan/Vekta. (assuming there haven't been any more advancements in propulsion technology that would allow ships to go faster.) The reason Helghan is a chokepoint isn't because of the territory, it's because it's literally the only place to get fuel for several light-years. Sure you could try to move past them while not getting any fuel, but what are you gonna do when you run out, in the middle of nowhere, or on a collision course with a planet, or the star in the system you're in? And even if Helghan isn't the only place to get fuel, it's certainly the closest, and I would think that even after 10 years your tank might be running a little low. And remember, even if you're dealing with just trade ships, and not colony ships, these things are taking around ten years to get to Helghan, then ten years to get back, or maybe a couple more years to get where they're going. Unlike in something like Star Wars; traveling between planets isn't something you can just DO. You can't press a button and zoom into hyperspace and appear above Gyre for a cup of tea around lunch time. Traveling between planets in the Killzone universe still takes YEARS. This is what interested me so much about 2001: A Space Odyssey, which was the seven year journey to Jupiter (or Saturn, in the novel). Space travel should feel lonely, isolated, and empty, and I'd love to play a game that captured this feel of a space voyage.
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May 11, 2014 18:34
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It's so Shakespearean they're fighting as if they had crossbows.
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May 11, 2014 18:47
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Blind Sally posted:Earth has got to be feeling pretty good right about now. After having sold the Alpha Centauri system to the Helghan Administration, they now have enough pretext to come in and take it back for themselves by force. Vekta belongs wholly to the UCN-managed ISA forces. WELP. So much for my prediction. v  vThe only explanations I can think of that fits "in universe" as to how the UCN's fleet got there so quickly is that they were actually already on their way and the entire "deliberating over what to do about Helghan" was just a farce/misinformation/an outright lie. OR the navy was constructed somewhere in between Alpha Centauri and Earth. OR the colony ships just move a lot slower than cruisers do, due to size/cargo. The fact that the ISA just straight up supports the UCN without a fight is a little weird. But I assume most of the people in command aren't very loyal to their home planet, but are more loyal to the command structure of the military, which I guess makes sense, kind of? The UCN really are kind of dicks honestly. "Hey we'll sell you this territory but you have to gimp your navy and not have any way of defending yourselves if we wanna go back on the deal. Okay? Okay." Though to be fair, the Helghans probably did get a little overzealous with their tariffs and such. But is that really a reason to curbstomp them into oblivion? The real question is who ACTUALLY blew up the space station. If there were already people living on the planet I might believe it was them, but if there was NOBODY down there at this point? I'm gonna say that it was the UCN who just straight up murdered a space station full of people because "taxes." Given this bit of information, it actually gives more meaning to why the Helghast decided to go after the ISA aside from just "Visari's an insane Mussolini-Hitler speech." The Helghast have a bone to pick with the ISA. They actively sided against them when they probably needed them the most. It's as though most of the colonies sided with the British against the revolutionaries in 1776. Would YOU forgive the people living the high life on a veritable Eden while you're stuck on a storm blasted shithole because of them? I wouldn't. I also kinda see why there isn't a game about the stuff that happens before the games. It's mostly boring politicking, some early colonization mishaps, then just a curbstomp from the UCN to the Helghan. (Why do I feel like by the end of this thread we'll have a  emote but with a Helghast face and flag?)Also;  and The Eisenhower comparison holds up fairly well I think. IBlameRoadSuess fucked around with this message at 21:25 on May 11, 2014 |
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May 11, 2014 21:06
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I should also point out that the Helghast tank in stage 4 is completely killable with your regular weapons on Normal. I was replaying the PS2 version of Killzone last night for footage capture purposes. The audio on the Level 2 source video is wildly out of synch and it's so bad I can't even fix it with Premiere, so I'm using the PS2 Killzone for this level to give us a comparison between the original and the HD remake. And anyway, I went into stage 4 with 4 RPGs still on me. And of course, since Helghast tanks take only 3 RPGs to go down, I just waited out the APCs and unloaded on the tank when it shows up. Then when the ISA Lancers show up, the guy who originally cheers the arrival in the video goes "better late than never, boys!  " so I thought that was a nifty detail worth sharing.Oh, and the jackass from the animated gif stands in THE EXACT SAME POSITION in the PS2 original. To the point where he was actually blocking my line of sight on the last Helghast soldier you need to clear out to advance the stage. So I just shot right through him and got the Helghast goon in the barrage.  Also, be on the lookout for a video called "nine-gear crow sucks at grenades". Wherein I constantly forget that I didn't remap the crouch and grenade buttons and am constantly limp-wrist tossing grenades two feet in front of my face and panicking when I realize what I've done. IBlameRoadSuess posted:(Why do I feel like by the end of this thread we'll have a If this isn't a thing by the time we're done this LP, I will be very sad.
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May 11, 2014 22:19
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So, in the background materials, there is no FTL? I've always paid attention to stuff like that and I'm fairly sure they do in story. Killzone 3 has numerous references to a warp drive and FTL communication and in Killzone 1, the earth fleet appears to be jumping in between the space station the player is on and the planet. I don't think the designers didn't care. I think it's more that unlike in Shakespeare's time, people today are so used to only having a few days to solve crises that even stretching events over a week noticeably lowers the dramatic tension. So the designers were inadvertently forced to write the plot in time frames where only FTL travel would work, possibly without realizing they'd done so.
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May 12, 2014 03:52
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Don't you see, the Helghast are using tactics from the time of Shakespeare!Blind Sally posted:The game timeline mentions at least one other colony planet (Gyre in the Altair system). If I were to seriously try and guess what made Helghan a chokepoint planet, it probably go something like this: It's a complete nitpick, I was just struck by it thinking "So did they choose colonies that extended out in a straight line from Earth?" At least Altair and Alpha Centauri are kind of sort of in the same direction.
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May 12, 2014 04:42
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Monocled Falcon posted:So, in the background materials, there is no FTL? i assume they didn't have FTL during the first exosolar war. it was probably developed later on. also, stupid question , but, how different are the helghast from regular humans. I assume other then the messed up lungs and the complexion they arnt that different.
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May 12, 2014 04:55
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Blind Sally posted:
Actually this looks a lot like the Special Operations Command emblem:  Special Forces are often referred to as the "Tip of the Spear", the spear in question being those that show up all over national iconography to represent strength of arms or military might; the first element to fight in a location is often Special Forces troops of one sort or another, and SOCOM's Tier One Operators are often the first to show up. I think it has less to do with being a death card and more to do with representing a SF unit -- some countries have only one type of Special Forces unit, which is essentially a Rapid Reaction Force. Those tanks, which look like Light Armored Vehicles with a seriously upgraded primary weapon system, would be a decent choice for rapid armored response in a metropolitan area; some SWAT units actually have LAVs. It might be a lot more thought than was actually put into it, but I could see the spear emblem being used to help reinforce that these are ISA RRF special forces tanks. That brings up an interesting correlation -- the Helghast troops all look heavily armored and the ISA troops appear to be wearing some much more basic ballistic vests, whereas the descriptions for the vehicles and space assets describe the reverse; Helghast vehicles are lightly armored and smaller than their ISA counterparts. Very unlike the German armored corps during WWII. I assume that Helghast forces will be promptly torn to shreds once ISA mounts a coordinated counterattack, or do they have a more significantly armored main battle tank?
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May 12, 2014 06:29
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pengun101 posted:also, stupid question , but, how different are the helghast from regular humans. I assume other then the messed up lungs and the complexion they arnt that different.  Pictured: ISA Ambassador Sepp Harkin and his wife (a Helghan woman named Valeria Harkin. Oddly enough, she's described by other Helghast as a "whore" either because she actually was one or because she married a Vektan.) So yeah, no real practical difference between Helghans and Vektans/any other humans. They're just pale and bald.
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May 12, 2014 16:12
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Yeah, Helghast are still human. Their relatively short life-span since first colonizing Helghan have led to them having some unique traits, such as denser bones and hardier lungs to deal with the higher gravity and harsher atmosphere, but they're still human. There are a number of half-human/half-Helghast people in the series who are derisively referred to half-breeds. One of the playable characters in Killzone is "half-Helghast" and it's interesting to note that they have unique enough genetic markers that they can set up security checkpoints that can recognize "Helghast blood". It's my understanding that Helghan has seen enough terraforming and atmosphere processing that most Helghast don't actually need to wear their masks anymore. For the most part, it's a symbol of the working class. However, those who spent considerable time in the mines before advancing up the social ladder still need the masks. When a high-ranking Helghast officer needs a breathing apparatus, it's a sign their family came from a lower social caste at some point (see: Colonel Mael Radec and Colonel Tendon Cobar). When the ISA invade Helghan in later games, none of the Vektan soldiers need masks though. Same goes for the baldness thing. At first it was the upper crust who didn't have hair problems, but now the planet is safe enough that most people are fine excepting those who work in the mines--which isn't an insignificant part of the population, I should specify, as it's basically Helghan's primary, secondary, and tertiary industry. Most seem to shave their heads anyways as a form of solidarity. MassRafTer posted:Don't you see, the Helghast are using tactics from the time of Shakespeare! In the next game we actually get crossbows! I figure they went to Alpha Centauri as a first destination as it's the closest star system to our own. Altair isn't much further than that (and they can refuel in Alpha Centauri), so they're sort of going in a straight line because it's convenient. destitute posted:That brings up an interesting correlation -- the Helghast troops all look heavily armored and the ISA troops appear to be wearing some much more basic ballistic vests, whereas the descriptions for the vehicles and space assets describe the reverse; Helghast vehicles are lightly armored and smaller than their ISA counterparts. Very unlike the German armored corps during WWII. I assume that Helghast forces will be promptly torn to shreds once ISA mounts a coordinated counterattack, or do they have a more significantly armored main battle tank? This is basically what happens. The Third Army comes in with their super mobile advance force and blitzkrieg the capitol city. While Vekta's RRF is drawn off to defend against the invasion, the Eight and Ninth Armies land in the south with bigger, but slower, weapons and armour:  After the initial invasion fails, the remaining Third Army retreats south to join up with the Eighth and Ninth. That's where the last Helghast hold outs on Vekta wind up. When the Helghast are finally pushed off of Vekta, the ISA council doesn't sue for peace but rather uses the invasion as a pretext to attack and occupy Helghan--as evidenced by the fact that there's a Killzone 2 and 3. As the ISA fleet approaches Helghan, they cut through the Helghast fleet like butter. However, there were no restrictions placed on ground-based weaponry so massive ground-to-orbit weapons take out much of the ISA before they can even land.
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May 12, 2014 17:40
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In the Ace of Spades analysis I think you meant World War II Airborne unit, and it was actually only one regiment of one division (the 506th Parachute Infantry, part of the 101st Airborne) that used spades as insignia. Each unit of the 101st marked their helmets with a card suit representing their regiment; in that case it's not really an ace of spades, just a spade. On the subject of Vietnam, the Ace, and death cards, here's more than you ever wanted to know (and yes, it includes at least one image of a dead person).
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May 12, 2014 17:42
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IBlameRoadSuess posted:From what I understand, not at all. The Helghast are literally just humans with bald heads, pale complexion and lungs not quite adapted to Helghan's air. I'm not sure if the soldiers NEED their air masks for living on Helghan or what because story important characters don't seem to need it? (ie. Visari, a couple characters from Killzone Mercenary) she is called a whore because she married him. drat, i am still surprised how good killzone mercenaries is.
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May 12, 2014 17:56
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Yeah, holy crap. It's still hard to believe that's a handheld game. I never thought the Vita would look so good. Mind you, Guerrilla are one of those devs who know how to squeeze the most out of a system. How'd you capture that image? It looks amazing.
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May 12, 2014 18:04
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Blind Sally posted:Yeah, holy crap. It's still hard to believe that's a handheld game. I never thought the Vita would look so good. Mind you, Guerrilla are one of those devs who know how to squeeze the most out of a system. How'd you capture that image? It looks amazing. I just ripped it off the Killzone wiki on the page for Valeria Harkin. Not sure how that image was captured, perhaps someone streamed Mercenary to their PS3 and recorded from that? Or they just had a jailbroken Vita. It really is a good looking game for the Vita, there's some really beautiful moments that you see. For instance the opening level is set during the Helghast attack on Vekta, I think, and you see the Helghast cruisers flying around what would otherwise be a really beautiful city just under seige from a superior force.
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May 12, 2014 19:48
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Probably a hard-moded Vita or someone with access to a Vita dev kit, if I had to guess. Because a screenshot like that is way too specific for some random publicity boilerplate screencap.
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May 12, 2014 20:26
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Kangra posted:In the Ace of Spades analysis I think you meant World War II Airborne unit, and it was actually only one regiment of one division (the 506th Parachute Infantry, part of the 101st Airborne) that used spades as insignia. Each unit of the 101st marked their helmets with a card suit representing their regiment; in that case it's not really an ace of spades, just a spade. Amusingly enough for a superstition that was supposed to have transpired from the French to the Vietnamese, there's no remarkable superstition about cards in France.
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May 12, 2014 21:21
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Why are y'all's videos set to link only, and more importantly, why don't you have playlists? Having to alt tab every 10 minutes to play the next video really cramps my style, brah.
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May 12, 2014 21:23
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Hrmmm..... not sure if you've mentioned this, but are you going to be showing the other character missions off at some point (After you unlock said characters of course)? The token female we get has RADICALLY different missions than the rest and I always enjoyed them. The other two are fun as well sometimes.
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May 13, 2014 00:05
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Lateinshowing posted:Hrmmm..... not sure if you've mentioned this, but are you going to be showing the other character missions off at some point (After you unlock said characters of course)? The token female we get has RADICALLY different missions than the rest and I always enjoyed them. The other two are fun as well sometimes. Yes. Will will be showing off the different playstles of all four characters and how they affect certain levels. The only place that forces you to take different paths in a mission is the last level. But we'll get there in due time.
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May 13, 2014 00:09
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Unreal_One posted:Why are y'all's videos set to link only, and more importantly, why don't you have playlists? Having to alt tab every 10 minutes to play the next video really cramps my style, brah. nine-gear crow posted:The initial idea we had was the LPs were supposed to be accessible only through Something Awful. Though I suppose it's kind of silly idea and is a little harder to justify now that SotE is up on the LP Archive for all to see. If there's a large public outcry for it, I'll make the videos public, but for now you can just chalk it up to "crow is kinda weird like that". Not sure you can make playlists with unlisted videos, but if you can, just make a playlist of it yourself? I tend to do that with LPs that have playlists that lag behind videos , or no playlists at all.
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May 13, 2014 04:35
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I played Killzone 1, and for the longest God damned time I thought General Anime was voiced by Alec Baldwin. Now I know better.
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May 13, 2014 05:11
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Mister Macys posted:I played Killzone 1, and for the longest God damned time I thought General Anime was voiced by Alec Baldwin. That's an interesting bit of happenstance in regard to casting of the games. The ISA don't have any big name stars or even big name voice actors attached to them outside of Sean Pertwee, which in and of itself is undermined since Hakha's half-Helghast and the other characters he voiced in the series are pure Helghast. Meanwhile, the Helghans have Brian Cox, Malcolm McDowell, and Ray Winstone on their side.
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May 13, 2014 07:55
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nine-gear crow posted:That's an interesting bit of happenstance in regard to casting of the games. The ISA don't have any big name stars or even big name voice actors attached to them outside of Sean Pertwee, which in and of itself is undermined since Hakha's half-Helghast and the other characters he voiced in the series are pure Helghast. Meanwhile, the Helghans have Brian Cox, Malcolm McDowell, and Ray Winstone on their side. That really does factor into a major issue I have with the series and the reason I couldn't finish 2. The Helghast are so much more interesting than the ISA it's absurd. They have all the cool outfits and gear, all the great VA and lines, all the interesting backstory and motivation, and the ISA are just... grunts. It's really clear that all of the creativity goes into Helghast after awhile. It's not so bad now but in Killzone 2 the contrast between the ISA storytelling and the Helghast storytelling is dramatic. The Helghast are having speeches about pride and duty and personal sacrifice to protect their world and the ISA are grunting at eachother and engaging in the most obnoxious action-military dialog I've heard in awhile. I couldn't finish it because I was so fed up with all the characters I was constantly surrounded by. Now maybe that was the point, something about grey areas and the good guys being bad guys too, but it's grating at best when you're stuck with the personifications of that for like 8 hours. I really shouldn't be spending my entire time with a game wishing I was playing as the bad guys instead. I don't care if the Helghast are space nazis, the ISA do something worse than be space nazis, they're boring. Neruz posted:Some of that is probably from publishers going "no it needs to be more like Call of Duty" or something to that effect; forcing the devs to 'genericify' the good guys but not caring about whether the bad guys are deep or interesting so long as they look evil. So the devs can probably get away with a lot more storytelling with the Helghast because they're the antagonists. Antagonists are usually always more interesting indeed, and I had thoughts along the same lines as you when I was playing it. I get why it's like that, but that doesn't make it any better to play. SSJ Reeko fucked around with this message at 14:45 on May 13, 2014 |
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May 13, 2014 14:18
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Some of that is probably from publishers going "no it needs to be more like Call of Duty" or something to that effect; forcing the devs to 'genericify' the good guys but not caring about whether the bad guys are deep or interesting so long as they look evil. So the devs can probably get away with a lot more storytelling with the Helghast because they're the antagonists.
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May 13, 2014 14:26
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In regards to the screenshot from Killzone: Mercenary, you can take a screenshot in most Vita games by pressing start and the PS button at the same time. So it's probably taken from a normal Vita.
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May 14, 2014 13:13
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SSJ Reeko posted:[Helghast > ISA] I always notice this when I read something Killzone related on another forum or in a YouTube comment section. People almost always hate the ISA and sympathize with the Helghast. I think I might screencap some of the more interesting comments and bring them up in a later update. Also, apologies for the delay. Aside from a few technical issues, some real-world issues cropped up as well. No biggie, we're just behind on getting commentary for the second chapter.
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May 14, 2014 17:41
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Neruz posted:Some of that is probably from publishers going "no it needs to be more like Call of Duty" or something to that effect; forcing the devs to 'genericify' the good guys but not caring about whether the bad guys are deep or interesting so long as they look evil. So the devs can probably get away with a lot more storytelling with the Helghast because they're the antagonists. It might also be that bad guys need more of a reason to be bad. The good guys always have a fundamental sense of duty and honor, the definitions of which are deeply ingrained in the player. They do what they do because it is the right thing to do and the player doesn't need any convincing. Where as the bad guys need a reason to be bad. If they are bad just because it is sometimes part of human nature to be bad, then the entire Helghast population is turned into psychopaths.
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May 14, 2014 19:17
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