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Gonzo McFee posted:Ask him what those policies are given that they threw out their manifesto when people kept on pointing out how batshit insane it was. According to this New Statesman article, their economic policy is heading somewhat left. I wouldn't be terribly surprised if they entirely abandoned right libertarianism and campaigned for the generals on renationalisation as it'd be a nationalist, populist position. http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2014/04/how-ukip-turning-left-economy Obviously the party attracts racists in droves. Any party critical of immigration will, and Farage capitalises on it. I think it's pretty disingenuous to write off every UKIP voter as a bigot however. The economic impact (net benefit for us I expect) of migration and EU membership is unlikely to be felt evenly across income levels (some may see real disadvantages? Especially as a result of austerity), and I'm not convinced that neoliberalism is able to deliver anything approaching equitable globalisation. They're the only prominent anti-EU party, and EU opponents are a very broad church (also with such a bare manifesto, there's less risk of alienating people at this stage). Not that I voted for them. But I'm very interested in people's motivations.
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May 27, 2014 13:19
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hookerbot 5000 posted:It's interesting because it feels a lot like they are just saying whatever they need to say to get in. The newspaper says that they ran with the slogan "protect your benefits!" in some areas whereas in others and on their website they are pushing the don't give benefits to lazy scroungers angle. How do you fight against a group that will change their policies completely whenever they feel challenged? It's like punching a cloud. Yeah the 2010 manifesto is ludicrous and rightfully disowned, but I want to know what has changed between then and now. Why would 2010 not repeat itself? The angle on that seems to have shifted to protecting benefits for UK nationals and denying them to new migrants. But there's no cohesion and no manifesto, so who really knows? I'm sure that reducing the party to two issues before the locals/Euros was a conscious play to pick up as much of the anti-EU/establishment vote as possible. They can only fragment it from here, whether they alienate the left or the right (centrism would be even worse, given that's what everyone else is). They got an easy leg up from the established left though, because (at least at a newspaper/TV level?) we seem totally incapable of critically discussing the EU or globalisation and would rather avoid the issue by just calling people bigots en masse. Most everyone was blanket dismissive of UKIP voters before the Euros, and it's not wise to be dismissive of the politically disenfranchised - as is reflected in their results. Which at least seem to have gotten some conversation going, because they're issues that need to be engaged with. Though I'll probably poo poo myself the day I see high level, empirically backed and well reasoned discourse about either the EU or migration in newspapers.
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May 27, 2014 14:02
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thehustler posted:And re above somebody pointing out that their economic policy is very left-leaning, it was being pointed out before the election that if you look at what most UKIP voters actually want, they are more aligned with the Greens than anybody else. So clearly it was the racism that swung them to vote UKIP E: I expect things would have looked somewhat different if there were a prominent leftist, Eurosceptic party running, is really what I'm trying to say with all this. I can't/don't want to believe that such a huge swathe of the electorate are straight up racists. Car Stranger fucked around with this message at 15:19 on May 27, 2014 |
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May 27, 2014 15:02
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thehustler posted:Well I count "racism" to include the anti-immigration stuff - the Greens are ok with it, I thought? That's what I'm saying though. You're conflating desire for immigration reform directly with racism unless I'm misunderstanding. It's not inherently racist (though a lot of massive racists would support it of course). And, even then, it's complicated by being inexorably linked with the EU. An EU exit is by definition going to mean massive immigration reform. They want to stay in the EU (albeit while campaigning for stuff like max pay ratios) and their policy on immigration isn't especially out there, though it rules out preference based on skills or resources, which is IIRC exactly the mechanism UKIP have said they would use. http://policy.greenparty.org.uk/mg.html E: Actually, re-reading at home, this bit is loving wild. quote:MG200 The Green Party's highest priority is the creation of a just and ecological world order in which environmental devastation is minimised and needs can be met without recourse to migration. Car Stranger fucked around with this message at 20:28 on May 27, 2014 |
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May 27, 2014 17:05
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Party Boat posted:Hola's always worked well for me.
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Jun 1, 2014 10:10
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