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Miltank posted:A Socialist veneer over the Tea Party; An extremely influential and ideologically consistent political force who are shifting the political spectrum left while playing chicken with a global system that they wish to ultimately dismantle. This is an extremely good point. On the other hand, the irony is that the Tea Party lost a lot of support because the average voter doesn't want to risk destroying capitalism by accident. But still, this really illustrates the wishy-washyness of the left, and our ultimate attachment to capitalism and reluctance to take any action that might upset our still relatively cushy position in the global economy.
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Jul 8, 2014 23:11
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What I'm saying is that if you want to destroy capitalism, the Tea Party offers a rather good blueprint.Who What Now posted:Holy poo poo, since when is not wanting to plunge every country on earth into a Mad Maxx style post-apocalypse seen as "wishy-washy"? Political change takes time, learn some goddamn patience you babies. Do you really think that capitalism can be dismantled without consequences? The "tea party" solution to capitalism is far less bloody and painful to the average person than an actual revolution. You can't shift the climate to the left if your ideals and principles are always- even rhetorically!- secondary to maintaining a smooth and stable economy. I'm all for the Bertrand Russel approach, but he was explicitly a moderate socialist, and he existed in an environment in which even America was seriously worried about the prospect of a Communist revolution. In that environment, he did not need to be an extremist, because there were people in Russia literally lining people up against the wall and shooting them for the socialist cause. If anything, a voice of moderation was needed then; but now we have nothing but moderates. The problem with what the Tea Party almost did is that the result very well might not be socialists, or even relatively benign liberals, coming to power in the current political climate. If even here on D&D we aren't even willing to consider courses of action which might disrupt the smooth functioning of capitalism, then the time when that climate changes and socialists are a power bloc to contend with in a crisis will never come again. Fascism is doing just fine though!
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Jul 9, 2014 02:32
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Samurai Quack posted:That people prefer what stability exists over the very slim chance that things could be improved if it all got blown up first is not them being selfish or ignorant, it's people simply choosing to live, which is what the vast majority of the human race will always choose to do, because it makes the most sense. I'm not calling for a revolution right now, and in the absence of real opposition to capitalism it makes perfect sense to get by and do what good you can. What doesn't make sense is shutting down any discussion of radical paths of action because they would disrupt the system. That's kind of the point, after all. "The revolution" will only be peaceful if the discourse is moved very far to the left so that it is simply the majority imposing their will rather than a civil war. That does not happen without people who are willing to overlook nuances and take risks, and honestly, to be a little stupid and overzealous.
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Jul 9, 2014 05:26
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Fojar38 posted:This thread has become really, really lovely and should be closed again. Needs more brony.
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Jul 9, 2014 06:09
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