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My Lovely Horse
Aug 21, 2010

Yeah I love Yakuza but the way to beat difficult battles is 100% "brute force it with heat moves/tauriner/outleveling the enemy where applicable.

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Pulsarcat
Feb 7, 2012


Muscle Tracer posted:

I'd say there's also some unmissable tells, namely that the deeply horrifying opening cutscene happens at the clinic, and also the medicine they are giving you is literally human blood, but that's all likely to get lost in the haze of "It's a game! Healing items! Yay!"

Too be fair:

While it's true the overall practice of blood healing may have caused one....maybe two small, minor, don't worry about it okay, issues.
The actual act of giving your blood to another is usually framed as a kind and even intimate act, and it's heavily implied she's giving you her own blood.

So within the context of the games world, her giving you vials of human blood isn't really a tell that something evil is going down.
If anything it's perfectly normal and even kind that a woman working in a clinic while poo poo is going down is willing to help out a hunter while most other people are hiding in their homes.

Oxxidation
Jul 22, 2007

Pulsarcat posted:

Too be fair:

While it's true the overall practice of blood healing may have caused one....maybe two small, minor, don't worry about it okay, issues.
The actual act of giving your blood to another is usually framed as a kind and even intimate act, and it's heavily implied she's giving you her own blood.

So within the context of the games world, her giving you vials of human blood isn't really a tell that something evil is going down.
If anything it's perfectly normal and even kind that a woman working in a clinic while poo poo is going down is willing to help out a hunter while most other people are hiding in their homes.


in addition to that, the opening cutscene isn't at the same clinic. sort of. it's not iosefka's in any case

Muscle Tracer
Feb 23, 2007

Medals only weigh one down.

Pulsarcat posted:

Too be fair:

While it's true the overall practice of blood healing may have caused one....maybe two small, minor, don't worry about it okay, issues.
The actual act of giving your blood to another is usually framed as a kind and even intimate act, and it's heavily implied she's giving you her own blood.

So within the context of the games world, her giving you vials of human blood isn't really a tell that something evil is going down.
If anything it's perfectly normal and even kind that a woman working in a clinic while poo poo is going down is willing to help out a hunter while most other people are hiding in their homes.


I guess that's true, since there are multiple people willing to just give you their blood directly.

Oxxidation posted:

in addition to that, the opening cutscene isn't at the same clinic. sort of. it's not iosefka's in any case

This doesn't make any sense at all to me, what makes you think that?

Rockman Reserve
Oct 2, 2007

"Carbons? Purge? What are you talking about?!"

also the player character chooses to end up there in the beginning of the game, they traveled from foreign lands specifically to get some blood injection quackery

Oxxidation
Jul 22, 2007

Muscle Tracer posted:

This doesn't make any sense at all to me, what makes you think that?

the yharnam that contains that version of the clinic isn't seen again until the last thirty seconds of the "awakening" ending. the whole point of bloodborne's setting is that yharnam is hopelessly entangled in the dreams of the various elder gods its residents have entrapped and abused over the city's history. the great ones' "dreams" are really more like pocket dimensions that people enter by taking communion with them in some way, with yharnam's favorite being blood ministration. some of them have their own territories - the nightmare of mensis is probably the most notable, belonging to mergo - but most of yharnam is snarled up in several dreams at once, which is also why its architecture is so warped. this is clearest in the cavern where you find ebrietas - if you look around its edges you see that statues are literally growing out of the rock. the city's screwy statuary wasn't sculpted, it was literally dreamt up

what all this means is the player character enters that dream yharnam through the blood ministration in the game's intro, and doesn't return to it again unless they accept gehrman's offer to wake them up and return to the real world. iosefka and the choir were already part of the dream, so they don't have anything to do with the goings-on during the intro

RareAcumen
Dec 28, 2012




bawk posted:

I'm just finishing the Dice Gambling place with Haruka in Yakuza Kiwami, and I'm turning the difficulty down to Easy. The best way to describe the combat in this game is "constantly in the way"

It's OK when it's random street thugs who you can style on in 20 seconds, but I have yet to have the "Eureka!" moment that suddenly unlocks this combat system being secretly good for long-scale fights. If you commit to any punch at all when there's multiple characters to fight, you will get dinged by some random mook and lose a huge chunk of your Heat bar. I've unlocked the abilities that let you immediately block after getting interrupted/immediately dodge after getting interrupted and they don't seem to actually do anything, no matter which style I'm currently using. If I get hit, I will press the dash button repeatedly while getting wombo-combo'd by two bosses, and then have to button mash to stand back up because they've also taken away all the Heat.

Some of the bosses are annoying like early Shimano and the Akai brothers as well as anyone who uses a gun but it's the same as any game, you hang out near them, get them to throw some punches or kicks into empty air and then punch them in the back of the head. Basic goons can't be a problem because even like, three punches and then the finisher in rush style is enough to knock basically everyone but bosses on their rear end. Otherwise, just use Beast around literally any object and keep mashing till the bikes, chairs, table, and whatever random object does the job.

Last Celebration
Mar 30, 2010

Pulsarcat posted:

Too be fair:

While it's true the overall practice of blood healing may have caused one....maybe two small, minor, don't worry about it okay, issues.
The actual act of giving your blood to another is usually framed as a kind and even intimate act, and it's heavily implied she's giving you her own blood.

So within the context of the games world, her giving you vials of human blood isn't really a tell that something evil is going down.
If anything it's perfectly normal and even kind that a woman working in a clinic while poo poo is going down is willing to help out a hunter while most other people are hiding in their homes.


I think something that’s just alluded to and not outright said is that the lady giving you blood from the other side of the door is a genuinely nice, helpful lady…that is turned into a depressed blue alien along with everyone you sent to the clinic because Fake Isofka turned the real one and all those other people into aliens as part of her hosed up experiments.

The Lone Badger
Sep 24, 2007

Last Celebration posted:

I think something that’s just alluded to and not outright said is that the lady giving you blood from the other side of the door is a genuinely nice, helpful lady…that is turned into a depressed blue alien along with everyone you sent to the clinic because Fake Isofka turned the real one and all those other people into aliens as part of her hosed up experiments.

Yharnam: Not even once.

Elissimpark
May 20, 2010

Bring me the head of Auguste Escoffier.

Taeke posted:

I never reeally tried to interact with or make sense of those games, it's just too much effort. I'm like 20 years past having infinite time to search out tidbits of lore scour the map for something I missed. The gameplay is good enough on it's own terms and it's always pretty clear where to go next and what to do, so yeah. I gotta kill a lady sorceress now? Sure. Oh that guy I beat earlier came back with an upgrade? Whatever. There's a big loving giants in my way now? I'll kill it but gently caress me if I know how he relates to everything, I just have to get to that tree and beat whatever's there.

I'm sure I'm missing out on a lot of stuff that I would've loved when I was younger but I just don't have enough time anymore amd even if I do take the time I'll lose interest before I actually finish the game.

Things dragging games down: becoming an adult.

Honestly, I think this is one of the best things (to me) about the Souls games, that the story doesn't really get in the way of the gameplay. You can start a new game and be out exploring or killing stuff in a minute or so. I noped out of Horizon Zero Dawn, a game who's gameplay I think I'd actually enjoy, because it started telling me a story. I don't want a story, I want to hunt giant robots!

I'm not sure it's entirely about getting old and not having time, or whether it's growing up in the eighties with games with minimal or no story.

bawk
Mar 31, 2013

RareAcumen posted:

Some of the bosses are annoying like early Shimano and the Akai brothers as well as anyone who uses a gun but it's the same as any game, you hang out near them, get them to throw some punches or kicks into empty air and then punch them in the back of the head. Basic goons can't be a problem because even like, three punches and then the finisher in rush style is enough to knock basically everyone but bosses on their rear end. Otherwise, just use Beast around literally any object and keep mashing till the bikes, chairs, table, and whatever random object does the job.

This is pretty much how I've been playing, Beast when there's literally any blue triangle on-screen, use the guard when enemies start swinging, switch to Brawler and use some weapons whenever possible, etc. but turning the difficulty down to Easy immediately made things more enjoyable. I might turn it back up soon because taking out an entire boss health bar off with one climax heat action is kind of ridiculous, but I'm gonna boost a couple more stats first.

I'm currently stuck trying to get Majima to actually spawn with the fighting style I need. I need to run in Breaker Majima in order to finally, hopefully get the last upgrade that might make Dragon style not suck (Fast Quicksteps) but apparently running into Breaker Majima via him jumping into a fight does not count. I keep bumping into Officer Majima/Zombie Majima/Bat Majima, and then I fight him enough times that he fucks off back to the West Park to smoke until I finish the next chapter. I'm at A Rank Majima Everywhere and just about to finish Chapter 8 and still can't get the sumbitch to show up

Ms Adequate
Oct 30, 2011

Baby even when I'm dead and gone
You will always be my only one, my only one
When the night is calling
No matter who I become
You will always be my only one, my only one, my only one
When the night is calling



From games would be a lot better if they either committed to telling stories you can follow without a study guide or they dispensed with the facad entirely. What we get is careful calibrated to annoy me in particular because I can see the murky outline of some fantastic lore and plots but I never feel like any of it is followed through on or made good on. Just ends up killing interest in any part of the stories for me.

ilmucche
Mar 16, 2016

Ms Adequate posted:

From games would be a lot better if they either committed to telling stories you can follow without a study guide or they dispensed with the facad entirely. What we get is careful calibrated to annoy me in particular because I can see the murky outline of some fantastic lore and plots but I never feel like any of it is followed through on or made good on. Just ends up killing interest in any part of the stories for me.

Facad was my favourite character though

Morpheus
Apr 18, 2008

My favourite little monsters
From: Okay we want people to discuss things to find out some of the finer details in our game.

Gunfire Games, developer of Remnant 2: Okay so to get this class you need to wander into the instant-kill miasma outside the map, but only in this one specific place. Getting this item from this boss requires killing them while they are reeling from a particular attack. Unlock this item by equipping enough armor to reach the highest weight category then rolling a hundred times. Unlock this class by equipping this specific set of armor, equipping a relic earned by beating a boss in a particular way, talking to someone and waiting 12 hours (real time) then talking to them again, get a special gun that requires equipping a particular ring before finding a secret door after a specific dialogue sequence, die ~15 times in quick succession without changing maps, equip a bunch of accessories from various shops and secret paths, and then find a secret door that now looks weird and step through it. Then traverse the backrooms to find the item in the time limit before you're teleported out (you can go back in but there's no indication about if there's anything else worth getting).

There is no 'maybe they wanted-', no, the game absolutely requires you to find this stuff online and the devs emphasized it. That last class is the most egregious of it but there are so many things that would be nearly impossible to find.

Alhazred
Feb 16, 2011




Thing that's dragging Skyrim down: That there have to be a plot. I'm having much more fun with loving around with the different factions in the different cities than following the main plot.

Hel
Oct 9, 2012

Jokatgulm is tedium.
Jokatgulm is pain.
Jokatgulm is suffering.

Bethesda main stories are good for two things: Introducing you to different parts of the world by travelling and quarantining the worst writers away from the rest of the game.

Morpheus
Apr 18, 2008

My favourite little monsters
Oh I played a bit of Forespoken (why did I start it before Dragon's Dogma came out? No idea) and I don't really mind the writing per se, it's just that there's far too much of it. Frey will just talk and talk given any opportunity, and conversations between her and Cuff last far too long. Should've been for more glib.

Also it's got that annoying thing I don't like when someone gets transported to another world where they'll constantly use references and expressions from the world they're from in a very obvious manner. Like, while on trial for being evil, Frey is asked where she's from and she says "Hell's Kitchen". Like, hey Frey, these people don't know what that is. You know you're in another world, why wouldn't you just say "far from here", or even just "New York". poo poo, if I went across the border to the states and someone asked me where I was from I wouldn't tell them the name of my neighborhood.

Stuff like that gets tiresome because it's always the same exchange.

"Wow this is like <thing from our world>"
"<thing from your world>?"
"Oh, it's- never mind."

John Murdoch
May 19, 2009

I can tune a fish.

Ms Adequate posted:

From games would be a lot better if they either committed to telling stories you can follow without a study guide or they dispensed with the facad entirely. What we get is careful calibrated to annoy me in particular because I can see the murky outline of some fantastic lore and plots but I never feel like any of it is followed through on or made good on. Just ends up killing interest in any part of the stories for me.

The oddest thing is that there's this weird balance where the more fleshed out the side quests get, the less fleshed out the main plot gets. Assuming you can follow them, ER's NPCs by and large get complete narratives. Meanwhile, good luck making sense of the threadbare scraps explaining why your character is doing what they're doing and fighting all these bosses without digging through the lore.

the_steve
Nov 9, 2005

We're always hiring!

Ms Adequate posted:

From games would be a lot better if they either committed to telling stories you can follow without a study guide or they dispensed with the facad entirely. What we get is careful calibrated to annoy me in particular because I can see the murky outline of some fantastic lore and plots but I never feel like any of it is followed through on or made good on. Just ends up killing interest in any part of the stories for me.

They need to make curating the lore a sidequest of its own.
Imagine, very early in the game, you encounter some old scholar in a shack who gives you your first exposition dump about what's going on, how you're maidenless, whatever.
And he/she is all "This world's knowledge was lost and scattered during the Grand Fuckening, but I'm trying to gather it all back in one place. Unfortunately, the other 99% of all living creatures in this world want to murder us on sight. But hey, lemme know if you find anything cool."

And then as you encounter powerful NPCs or uncover all of the areas in a map or find rare items, you can go back to this librarian NPC who will tell you all about the person/place/thing if you care enough to know. And as you hit certain completion percentages, the little shack improves until it becomes a whole rear end university.

poo poo, as I was typing that, it reminded me of the lorekeeper guy from Final Fantasy 16, sans the ever improving library sidequest bit.

Rockman Reserve
Oct 2, 2007

"Carbons? Purge? What are you talking about?!"

iirc Bloodborne originally didn’t show item descriptions during load screens and honestly that’s where you encounter 90% of the lore for the first time

kazil
Jul 24, 2005

A fancy little mouse🐁!

I dunno, I like that From makes the lore as deep as you want it to be. I think it's fun to gleam some of what is going on but I hate the hours long lore videos speculating every detail

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

kazil posted:

I dunno, I like that From makes the lore as deep as you want it to be. I think it's fun to gleam some of what is going on but I hate the hours long lore videos speculating every detail

Zullie the witch is cool and good though

kazil
Jul 24, 2005

A fancy little mouse🐁!

Arivia posted:

Zullie the witch is cool and good though

Yes of course.

Joey Freshwater
Jun 20, 2004

Always playing with my meat
Grimey Drawer
Playing Midnight Suns because it was free and apparently go good reviews. I’m not really enjoying it but giving it a chance. That’s not the problem though.

It won’t let me pause the god drat game during cut scenes. This is such a simple thing that every game should do but why are some just like gently caress you no pausing.

I get it in like an MMO or something like that but having to exit out to the PS main page to pause the game is stupid.

1stGear
Jan 16, 2010

Here's to the new us.

Ms Adequate posted:

From games would be a lot better if they either committed to telling stories you can follow without a study guide or they dispensed with the facad entirely. What we get is careful calibrated to annoy me in particular because I can see the murky outline of some fantastic lore and plots but I never feel like any of it is followed through on or made good on. Just ends up killing interest in any part of the stories for me.

This is in large part intentional. In pretty much every modern Fromsoft game, you are just some hosed Up Little Guy who's being used by greater powers to enforce their vision upon the world. Frampt in Dark Souls doesn't want you to think about how the world got to this state, he just wants you to rekindle the Flame. Gehrman in Bloodborne literally has a line early on telling you not to think too much about all this and to just go and kill some beasts. They (and the entities controlling them) just want you to maintain the status quo and you can blithely go through the path laid out for you to do just that. If you want to break from that path, the way the lore and sidequests are presented is literally designed to make that difficult and confusing. If you want to understand how to change the world, you're going to have to work for it.

Bloodborne benefits from this doubly because its a cosmic horror setting where trying to understand Truths Man Was Not Meant to Know is part and parcel of things. No amount of YouTubers can definitively say what the Moon Presence's deal is because there's no way to understand a completely alien intelligence and From didn't give any direct hints to it.

Rockman Reserve
Oct 2, 2007

"Carbons? Purge? What are you talking about?!"

it also helps (imo) that in Bloodborne you’re playing as some formerly normal person having a really, really bad night, as opposed to a shambling corpse-thing like most of the Souls games

Meowywitch
Jan 14, 2010

1stGear posted:

This is in large part intentional. In pretty much every modern Fromsoft game, you are just some hosed Up Little Guy who's being used by greater powers to enforce their vision upon the world. Frampt in Dark Souls doesn't want you to think about how the world got to this state, he just wants you to rekindle the Flame. Gehrman in Bloodborne literally has a line early on telling you not to think too much about all this and to just go and kill some beasts. They (and the entities controlling them) just want you to maintain the status quo and you can blithely go through the path laid out for you to do just that. If you want to break from that path, the way the lore and sidequests are presented is literally designed to make that difficult and confusing. If you want to understand how to change the world, you're going to have to work for it.

Bloodborne benefits from this doubly because its a cosmic horror setting where trying to understand Truths Man Was Not Meant to Know is part and parcel of things. No amount of YouTubers can definitively say what the Moon Presence's deal is because there's no way to understand a completely alien intelligence and From didn't give any direct hints to it.

bloodborne is The Only Good Video Game

CzarChasm
Mar 14, 2009

I don't like it when you're watching me eat.
more WWE2k24

Overall I really enjoy the Showcase mode, which is a look back at the last 40 years of Wrestlemania. What it does is pick out one or two highlight matches from past Wrestlemanias and have you reenact them by hitting specific moves at certain times, and do a transition between hands on gameplay, to an in-game cutscene, then to archival footage, then back to in game cutscene, and then back to game play. And I like that, it's pretty cool, and fairly challenging.

Until this latest one. I have to play this one match, and the AI is being incredibly cheap. In short there are two things that are annoying me. Firstly, as part of this recreation, you have to hit a finisher at some point fairly early in the match. That's not too difficult. By the time you hit this point in the checklist, you probably have at least one finisher bar filled. But one of the next items on the list is "Now, do a specific 3* finisher with your character here, and the enemy on the ground here". Except that you can only have a max of three finisher bars filled. And since you had to just spend one a minute ago, at best I have to spend 5 real world minutes attempting to build up that last bar, slowly, by doing basic moves. And how do you do that quickly? By doing a signature move, which uses a separate bar that builds more generously. Why not use the signature move? Because that same bar is your emergency "Escape a sudden pin" button. And you only get one of those.

Which brings me to point 2 - for some reason, the AI on this match is cranked to 11. I spend the first few minutes beating the absolute hell out of them, so they are weak in all stats, and their health bar is as small as it can go, but they are a counter striking, move reversing machine. And if they get on a roll, I can't reverse/dodge any of their moves. It's crazy to see the AI go from spending 90% of the match on their back, breathing heavy, barely able to do anything to stop me, to knocking me down three times from full health, and getting a 3 count with an impossible to escape pin.

But the most annoying thing is that they are gonzo for winning/losing by ring count out. Most of the time, you can toss the opponent outside and get a little breathing room, and the AI is decent about getting up and getting back in before the 10 count is reached. But every now and then, they are happy to lose by just letting time run out. Technically you win, and can advance to the next match, but you lose out on unlocking any of the goodies. The AI has done this to me three times in trying to beat this match.

Owl Inspector
Sep 14, 2011

Morpheus posted:

From: Okay we want people to discuss things to find out some of the finer details in our game.

Gunfire Games, developer of Remnant 2: Okay so to get this class you need to wander into the instant-kill miasma outside the map, but only in this one specific place. Getting this item from this boss requires killing them while they are reeling from a particular attack. Unlock this item by equipping enough armor to reach the highest weight category then rolling a hundred times. Unlock this class by equipping this specific set of armor, equipping a relic earned by beating a boss in a particular way, talking to someone and waiting 12 hours (real time) then talking to them again, get a special gun that requires equipping a particular ring before finding a secret door after a specific dialogue sequence, die ~15 times in quick succession without changing maps, equip a bunch of accessories from various shops and secret paths, and then find a secret door that now looks weird and step through it. Then traverse the backrooms to find the item in the time limit before you're teleported out (you can go back in but there's no indication about if there's anything else worth getting).

There is no 'maybe they wanted-', no, the game absolutely requires you to find this stuff online and the devs emphasized it. That last class is the most egregious of it but there are so many things that would be nearly impossible to find.

The last example bothered the hell out of me because I generally like to play games blind and find out as much as I can for myself, but that isn’t possible if you want to see everything in remnant 2 because they straight up required “cheating” to find a class (it was confirmed by the devs that datamining was expected to learn how to get it the first time, not gameplay, with everyone else I guess expected to enjoy the experience of alt tabbing to fextralife). and it’s not insignificant content, it’s the game’s entire caster class. there are a few other things that aren’t quite as lame as requiring you to look them up, but still obscure to a point I doubt as many as 1% of players had any hope of finding them on their own, like the invader class. once they start doing secrets like that, the whole idea of trying to find things blind gets weird. how much should I try to find on my own the fun way and how much should I just look up because there’s flat out no other way I’ll even know they exist? once you start alt tabbing out of the game to look things up, the remaining classes and items become more of a checklist than fun surprises to figure out.

The gameplay in remnant 2 is absolutely great but the way they handle secrets and unlocks just sucks.

Morpheus
Apr 18, 2008

My favourite little monsters

Owl Inspector posted:

The gameplay in remnant 2 is absolutely great but the way they handle secrets and unlocks just sucks.

I suspect i'd hate it a lot more if I hadn't played through the whole game with a couple friends. We just did a single blind playthrough on normal, getting through the story beats and beating the game while trying to find whatever secrets we could, without replaying areas (though I think we did one area again to unlock another class). After that we cracked open the wikis to find every archetype and most of the equipment. But yeah, it really goes too far in that direction, I find - like how the dreamcatcher, an optional item itself, is used to get multiple secret items from areas that, additionally, are not guaranteed to show up.

I understand what the devs wanted, in a game based entirely around multiple replays of areas, again and again, you want secrets and multiple potential rewards and stuff, but dang.

Edit: In Dragon's Dogma 2, I decided to explore, and found a mine. Neat, went through the mine and cleared it of goblins. Went back to town. Got a quest to go to the mine. Fine, make my way all the way back to the mine, do the quest, come back. Find a guy in town who tells me to meet him...near the mine. Goddamnit.

Morpheus has a new favorite as of 17:59 on Mar 25, 2024

Waste of Breath
Dec 30, 2021

I only know🧠 one1️⃣ thing🪨: I😡 want😤 to 🔪kill☠️… 😈Chaos😱… I need🥵 to. [TIME⏰ TO DIE☠️]
:same:

Joey Freshwater posted:

Playing Midnight Suns because it was free and apparently go good reviews. I’m not really enjoying it but giving it a chance. That’s not the problem though.

It won’t let me pause the god drat game during cut scenes. This is such a simple thing that every game should do but why are some just like gently caress you no pausing.

I get it in like an MMO or something like that but having to exit out to the PS main page to pause the game is stupid.

I started loving it more once things got rolling.

Another MMO-rear end thing I hate though: the game has a currency called Gloss which is largely used for cosmetics. The game is presenting me with many more color options and casual outfits than I can afford. You can allow characters to auto pick an outfit from the ones you have unlocked, which is neat and makes it feel more like you're inhabiting a space with real people.

I wanted to just buy a poo poo load of costumes so I'd always be seeing something new, so I loaded up cheat engine. Nope. Game immediately closes with a warning window. 2k added anti cheat to a single player game. What the gently caress.

John Murdoch
May 19, 2009

I can tune a fish.

1stGear posted:

This is in large part intentional. In pretty much every modern Fromsoft game, you are just some hosed Up Little Guy who's being used by greater powers to enforce their vision upon the world. Frampt in Dark Souls doesn't want you to think about how the world got to this state, he just wants you to rekindle the Flame. Gehrman in Bloodborne literally has a line early on telling you not to think too much about all this and to just go and kill some beasts. They (and the entities controlling them) just want you to maintain the status quo and you can blithely go through the path laid out for you to do just that. If you want to break from that path, the way the lore and sidequests are presented is literally designed to make that difficult and confusing. If you want to understand how to change the world, you're going to have to work for it.

Bloodborne benefits from this doubly because its a cosmic horror setting where trying to understand Truths Man Was Not Meant to Know is part and parcel of things. No amount of YouTubers can definitively say what the Moon Presence's deal is because there's no way to understand a completely alien intelligence and From didn't give any direct hints to it.

For me there's a break between DeS and DS1, where they give you some amount of context and some kind of mission, even if that information is ultimately incomplete or duplicitous and BB onward where they barely feed you any info at all and just say to go do stuff. (Like many things, DS2 goes off in its own weird uneven direction where it doesn't go entirely one way or the other, half of it works and half of it doesn't.)

Kitfox88
Aug 21, 2007

Anybody lose their glasses?

Hel posted:

Bethesda main stories are good for two things: Introducing you to different parts of the world by travelling and quarantining the worst writers away from the rest of the game.

Fallout 4 is one of the only videogames I can think of where the main quest actively drags the rest of the game down around it to make it worse by association.

pentyne
Nov 7, 2012

Kitfox88 posted:

Fallout 4 is one of the only videogames I can think of where the main quest actively drags the rest of the game down around it to make it worse by association.

Same problem with Fallout 3 and Oblivion, at least for me. The main quest was always the least interesting going on.

Away all Goats
Jul 5, 2005

Goose's rebellion

Snowrunners not having a manual transmission mode is kinda dumb because I can see my in-game character shifting gears as he drives around. I don't think automatic vehicles even exist in this game!

Kitfox88
Aug 21, 2007

Anybody lose their glasses?

pentyne posted:

Same problem with Fallout 3 and Oblivion, at least for me. The main quest was always the least interesting going on.

In FO3 I found it at most cliched and uninteresting, which in terms of videogame story sins is pretty bog standard. Fallout 4's main quest has so many parts I actively dislike and find stupid and lovely even for a Bethesda open world RPG that it worsens the entire game in my eyes by its inclusion. :shrug:

Inspector Gesicht
Oct 26, 2012

500 Zeus a body.


It didn't help that Witcher 3 has the same premise, only executed with actual panache.

Doctor Spaceman
Jul 6, 2010

"Everyone's entitled to their point of view, but that's seriously a weird one."
FO3's main plot works fine as a general source of motivation to go out and explore. FO4's main plot actively clashes with both the role-playing aspect and the open-world aspect (because a missing kid is too powerful a motivating drive for a character to allow room for anything else).

Morpheus posted:

Edit: In Dragon's Dogma 2, I decided to explore, and found a mine. Neat, went through the mine and cleared it of goblins. Went back to town. Got a quest to go to the mine. Fine, make my way all the way back to the mine, do the quest, come back. Find a guy in town who tells me to meet him...near the mine. Goddamnit.
AC:Odyssey is surprisingly good about this and quite a lot of quests can be cut with something like "Oh <random item>? Yeah I picked that up for no reason when I was murdering a cave full of cultists. Here you go."

moosecow333
Mar 15, 2007

Super-Duper Supermen!

Owl Inspector posted:

they straight up required “cheating” to find a class (it was confirmed by the devs that datamining was expected to learn how to get it the first time, not gameplay, with everyone else I guess expected to enjoy the experience of alt tabbing to fextralife).

This is far and away one of the stupidest design decisions I’ve heard in a long time.

Though speaking of poo poo designs, please stop level gating modes and stuff in games. Why do I have to be level 30 to unlock multiplayer in Bloons TD 6? I know how to play, give me a competency quiz or something if you’re worried about new players in the mode, don’t waste my time.

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Morpheus
Apr 18, 2008

My favourite little monsters

Doctor Spaceman posted:

AC:Odyssey is surprisingly good about this and quite a lot of quests can be cut with something like "Oh <random item>? Yeah I picked that up for no reason when I was murdering a cave full of cultists. Here you go."

DD2 is actually actively against this philosophy - for example, the first time I went to that mine, I found a door I couldn't open. Thought maybe I'd need a key or...I dunno, explosive barrel or something. Nope. When I went back there the second time for the quest, the door is just unlocked for no reason. Like, come on. Stuff like that actively discourages exploration in a game that is all about that.

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