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scarycave
Oct 9, 2012

Dominic Beegan:
Exterminator For Hire

Nostradingus posted:

Super Paper Mario?

Paper Mario 2 had one with a living bomb of all things.

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PJOmega
May 5, 2009

Morpheus posted:

I have yet to play a videogame where the romantic writing isn't hamfisted, awkward, and embarrasing.

I remember Viconia from Baldur's Gate 2 at least not being terrible, along with Annah from Planescape: Torment.

Disclaimer: I haven't played either in a long, long time.

Mokinokaro
Sep 11, 2001

At the end of everything, hold onto anything



Fun Shoe

PJOmega posted:

I remember Viconia from Baldur's Gate 2 at least not being terrible, along with Annah from Planescape: Torment.

Jaheira (minus how quickly you start becoming a couple relative to her husband's death) and Viconia are definitely good because they're handled more subtly and spaced out over a hundred hours or so of gametime. Since storywise months supposedly pass in BG2 it kind of works.

Anna and Fall From Grace are both handled pretty well too. Especially since pursuing Grace keeps the whole thing as a deep non-sexual relationship (since, you know, giving into her carnal natures would betray her character entirely.)


Would Triss in Witcher 2 count? By the second game if you stay with her it's a pretty believable relationship (the first game's romances are really hamhanded, though.)

tokenbrownguy
Apr 1, 2010

Viconica has one giant problem: Being a drow. There is some weapons-grade nasty neckbeard fetishization going down there.

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


Ignore my posts!
I'm aggressively wrong about everything!

Morpheus posted:

I have yet to play a videogame where the romantic writing isn't hamfisted, awkward, and embarrasing.

It's debatable and doesn't really avoid the problem, but I'd give Persona 4 a pass on the 'not garbage romantic writing' side of things. Not because it isn't awkward and kind of embarrassing at times, because it is, but you're dealing with teenagers so of course it's going to be awkward and embarrassing.

...of SCIENCE!
Apr 26, 2008

by Fluffdaddy

Morpheus posted:

I have yet to play a videogame where the romantic writing isn't hamfisted, awkward, and embarrasing.

I'd extend that to just about every other form of popular media out there imo.

Heavy Lobster
Oct 24, 2010

:gowron::m10:

Alouicious posted:

even if intentional, the story of Dragon Age 2 is still utter poo poo as a video game story, somehow even worse than Dragon Age Origins which is an astonishingly low bar

Maybe it's just a matter of expectations. I went into the two games being told that Origins was God's gift to RPG players and was thoroughly disappointed by pretty much all of it, whereas going into DA2 being told it was beyond horseshit I was pleasantly surprised by it being pretty alright to me. V:shobon:V

Thinky Whale
Aug 2, 2012

All that most maddens and torments; all that stirs up the lees of things; all truth with malice in it; all that cracks the sinews and cakes the brain; all the subtle demonisms of life and thought; all evil were visibly personified, and made practically assailable in Fry.
Got around to Knights of the Old Republic 2 on this forum's recommendation, and so far I'm liking it, except dear lord is the combat music terrible. And it goes on for ages after the fight is over, and before finally fading gives one more blare goodbye. Hopefully it changes after the mining asteroid area.

Deltasquid
Apr 10, 2013

awww...
you guys made me ink!


THUNDERDOME

...of SCIENCE! posted:

I'd extend that to just about every other form of popular media out there imo.

Maybe romance is extremely hamfisted, awkward and embarrassing to the onlookers, whether it's in media or otherwise?

Not really dragging a game down but a company as a whole: Atlus, I love your games. I don't love waiting for more than a year after Japan and US release before I can play my EU version, especially not if you region lock your game. You have the honor of creating the only god drat region locked game on PS3. :drat:

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


Ignore my posts!
I'm aggressively wrong about everything!

Deltasquid posted:

Not really dragging a game down but a company as a whole: Atlus, I love your games. I don't love waiting for more than a year after Japan and US release before I can play my EU version, especially not if you region lock your game. You have the honor of creating the only god drat region locked game on PS3. :drat:

This is probably going to go away in the future, fortunately. The thing causing it was that Atlus didn't have an actual European branch; they had to make specific deals with other companies to work as publishers in Europe, because they couldn't do it themselves. That's why Koei published Persona 3, Square-Enix P4, Ghotlight SMT Nocturne, Nintendo the Trauma Center series, and it's probably why Europe still hasn't gotten SMTIV (which hit pretty soon before the selling-off).

Now that Sega's bought them up, they can actually do it themselves, which they're first doing with Persona 4 Ultimax.

FeastForCows
Oct 18, 2011
The loving double-jump not always working in God of War III. 90% of my deaths are related to this bullshit.

Hel
Oct 9, 2012

Jokatgulm is tedium.
Jokatgulm is pain.
Jokatgulm is suffering.

Watch Dogs
You get money by hacking peoples bank accounts and then taking cash out of an ATM or stealing it out of glove compartments, so why is it that whenever you buy something you pay with your cell phone?

bunnyofdoom
Mar 29, 2008

Jaxxon: Still not the stupidest thing from the expanded universe.



Hel posted:

Watch Dogs
You get money by hacking peoples bank accounts and then taking cash out of an ATM or stealing it out of glove compartments, so why is it that whenever you buy something you pay with your cell phone?

Aiden is a bitcoiner?

Your Gay Uncle
Feb 16, 2012

by Fluffdaddy

Heavy Lobster posted:

Maybe it's just a matter of expectations. I went into the two games being told that Origins was God's gift to RPG players and was thoroughly disappointed by pretty much all of it, whereas going into DA2 being told it was beyond horseshit I was pleasantly surprised by it being pretty alright to me. V:shobon:V

Dragon Age 2 had some really interesting concepts, just packaged in complete and utter poo poo. Being in town/region for 10 years,integrating yourself into local politics, interparty dialogue and rivalries could have been pretty cool if executed properly.

Popoto
Oct 21, 2012

miaow

Hel posted:

Watch Dogs
You get money by hacking peoples bank accounts and then taking cash out of an ATM or stealing it out of glove compartments, so why is it that whenever you buy something you pay with your cell phone?

More Watch Dogs

Making me feel like I have massive cognitive dissonance by having the PC rant about justice non stop and then commiting crimes like a lunatic.

Judge Tesla
Oct 29, 2011

:frogsiren:

Deltasquid posted:

Maybe romance is extremely hamfisted, awkward and embarrassing to the onlookers, whether it's in media or otherwise?

Not really dragging a game down but a company as a whole: Atlus, I love your games. I don't love waiting for more than a year after Japan and US release before I can play my EU version, especially not if you region lock your game. You have the honor of creating the only god drat region locked game on PS3. :drat:

We've been drawing the short straw on game releases in the EU regions since the SNES days, Deep Silver and Rising Star are the publishers who release all the quirky japan only games we'd never see outside of import shops nowdays however.

Rocket Baby Dolls
Mar 3, 2006

Normally I don't make aesthetic criticisms in other peoples' homes, but that rug looks like a beaver exploded. If meat is murder, then that rug is at least a severe beating.
Firstly, some indie-games:

Hero Of The Kingdom

An indie game with an upcoming sequel. The actual gameplay, storyline and such isn't a drag but some of the in-game achievements are a complete pixel hunt. I can understand that achievements need to be earned but not by clicking on a random cluster of tree's to find a 8x8 pixelated image with only one or two pixels on show.

100% Orange Juice

I bought this on a Steam sale on a whim purely as it looked interesting. What I found out pretty early on is that the game is rigged with the computer controlled characters dice roles. Apparently someone looked into the source code and found that they are indeed rigged, in certain scenarios one character has a one in thirty-six chance of rolling a one instead of a one in six chance. I expect a challenge, but I expect it to be fair and based on luck, but not something based on where I'm at a complete disadvantage on every turn.

Redshirt

A pretty interesting and fun concept initially. But if you get into a relationship you're always ending up with an attention seeking monster. Plus everyone you make friends with is an attention seeking idiot who will hate you for not spending your precious time responding to their endless messages when you're trying to accomplish your own goals and such. Pretty much like real life I guess...

FTL: Faster Than Light

Don't get me wrong, I love this game. It's one of the most highest replay value games I've ever come across. But at times the randomness of it makes replaying it frustrating. Even with some of the most basic unlocks, even with walkthrough's on how to unlock them in the most simplest ways. After the fifth, tenth, fiftieth replayed game without any of those random events appearing I'm just wondering if I should put in another try. I've been in Rock home world's dozens of times and not once found that trigger. Yet I've unlocked Stealth and Crystal completely by accident and nothing else in another twenty or so runs!

A bigger title:

Just Cause

Something that was addressed in the sequel, the save system. In the original title saves happened after certain events, so going off and spending time doing some side missions would be worthless if you hadn't of advanced the main storyline. Spend an hour doing your own thing? Well when you return you can do it all over again as you didn't follow the main missions!

Hel
Oct 9, 2012

Jokatgulm is tedium.
Jokatgulm is pain.
Jokatgulm is suffering.

Rocket Baby Dolls posted:


Just Cause

Something that was addressed in the sequel, the save system. In the original title saves happened after certain events, so going off and spending time doing some side missions would be worthless if you hadn't of advanced the main storyline. Spend an hour doing your own thing? Well when you return you can do it all over again as you didn't follow the main missions!

At least on the PC you could save at every base camp, by using the satellite uplink, like the unskippable tutorial shows you after the first mission.


Just Cause 2
The Grappling hook
Yes it's good that you can now attach to everything instead of just vehicle and it has it's own button, but I really don't like the change to the zipping rubber band instead of a line you could extend & retract as you wanted up to a practically infinite lenght, and as such you can no longer parasail 3Km up in the air after a small car.
Also I dislike having the sky diving direction be controlled by the camera.

Cuntellectual
Aug 6, 2010

Verr posted:

Viconica has one giant problem: Being a drow. There is some weapons-grade nasty neckbeard fetishization going down there.

What's that mean to those of us not into that those "dumbgeons" and "dra-goon-s"? :cool:

Elfface
Nov 14, 2010

Da-na-na-na-na-na-na
IRON JONAH
Google it with safe-search off, and be ready for weapons-grade tits.

Also They're Evil and Matriarchal, which means S&M Lesbians.

Croccers
Jun 15, 2012

StarMinstrel posted:

More Watch Dogs

Making me feel like I have massive cognitive dissonance by having the PC rant about justice non stop and then commiting crimes like a lunatic.
I like how if you use a transformer or steam pipe to explode someone you get bad-boy points.
But if you hack traffic lights and a car gets set on fire THEN explodes and kills people, it's ok!

Perestroika
Apr 8, 2010

StarMinstrel posted:

More Watch Dogs

Making me feel like I have massive cognitive dissonance by having the PC rant about justice non stop and then commiting crimes like a lunatic.

Yeah, that trips me up as well. It starts you out by giving you all those subtle hacking tools and having you sneak around all opponents at first, making you feel like a low-key, budget batman. Then the game tells you to buy a fully automatic assault rifle and sets you to storm some company's office building, helpfully pointing out "those guards you're about to murder are like PMCs or some poo poo, they have it coming". Most of the time the game doesn't even bother to track whether you nonlethally subdue somebody or just shoot them in the face.

At this point I'm basically going with the interpretation that the protagonist is just a full-blown terrorist who just happens to target criminals most of the time.

MiddleOne
Feb 17, 2011

So about Watch Dogs...

These games really need to drop any attempt at having a serious and relatable protagonist. I'm not playing as a gruff dad looking to get revenge for his daughters murder. I'm playing as some lunatic who's first priority when visiting a birthday party is to steal from their medicine cabinet and hack into their private calls for no reason. That's not even mentioning how I was gunning down random people by the dozens outside their front door just 2 minutes earlier. The game doesn't even try to penalize this sort of behavior and it's so jarring that the protagonist is oblivious to his own actions.

If he had been Rico from Just Cause 2 this would have been fine but he's not. He's a character we're supposed to take seriously. :v:

Thinky Whale
Aug 2, 2012

All that most maddens and torments; all that stirs up the lees of things; all truth with malice in it; all that cracks the sinews and cakes the brain; all the subtle demonisms of life and thought; all evil were visibly personified, and made practically assailable in Fry.

Perestroika posted:

"those guards you're about to murder are like PMCs or some poo poo, they have it coming".

Didn't even Metal Gear Rising take a second between having you hack up PMCs to say, "hey, a lot of these guys are just people who didn't have a lot of other job options"?

Please tell me Watch Dogs is not less thoughtful and nuanced than the game about a cyborg hitting helicopters with a sword.

hirvox
Sep 8, 2009

Thinky Whale posted:

Didn't even Metal Gear Rising take a second between having you hack up PMCs to say, "hey, a lot of these guys are just people who didn't have a lot of other job options"?
It had an entire section where the protagonist is forced to listen to their panicked thoughts as they rush into certain death.

Watch Dogs, on the other hand, tends to tweak the profiling tidbits towards psychopaths. Sure, there are some Regular Joes there too, but you also get stuff like pyromania or dishonorable discharges. Acceptable targets, in other words.

muscles like this!
Jan 17, 2005


Also they're pretty clear upfront that killing cops who are chasing you doesn't actually accomplish anything. I haven't finished the game but so far the only time I had to get into a shootout with cops they were quick to point out that they were crooked. For the security guards there's usually a non-lethal way to do their areas. Either through just camera hacking or stealth takedowns, which knock out.

Another thing about Watch Dogs is that you can actually shoot enemies without killing them. The game makes a distinction between "neutralizing" an enemy and killing them.

Croccers
Jun 15, 2012

muscles like this? posted:

Another thing about Watch Dogs is that you can actually shoot enemies without killing them. The game makes a distinction between "neutralizing" an enemy and killing them.
You get more EXP for headshotting them rather than just plain killing or neutralizing them though. NPCs treat batoned characters as dead though so double :v:
Neutralized enemies roll around on the ground groaning and clutching like GTA does at least.

scarycave
Oct 9, 2012

Dominic Beegan:
Exterminator For Hire
It sounds like its doing the Fallout routine then. Being evil nets you a ton more xp and loot but makes it more difficult when dealing with people (or angry mobs - even more-so in the first too because every one has to get a turn to run a few spaces). Even as a good character - I still knock over re-spawning caravans and loot everyone's house though.

In New Vegas, I would routinely murder the gun runners and sell their poo poo to their vendor outside every several days.

Also, never take Jet in Fo2 if you can't get a steady supply (you can find some early and literally gently caress yourself over when it wears off).

happyhippy
Feb 21, 2005

Playing games, watching movies, owning goons. 'sup
Pillbug

Perestroika posted:

Yeah, that trips me up as well. It starts you out by giving you all those subtle hacking tools and having you sneak around all opponents at first, making you feel like a low-key, budget batman. Then the game tells you to buy a fully automatic assault rifle and sets you to storm some company's office building, helpfully pointing out "those guards you're about to murder are like PMCs or some poo poo, they have it coming". Most of the time the game doesn't even bother to track whether you nonlethally subdue somebody or just shoot them in the face.

At this point I'm basically going with the interpretation that the protagonist is just a full-blown terrorist who just happens to target criminals most of the time.

Same thing with a convoy mission where you have to stop some illegal organ donors driving across the city.
There are two targets, but in a convoy of six or seven cars. So 7 guys with guns basically.
The instructions are to 'knock down' the targets.
Are you allowed to kill them with guns? No.
Are you allowed to drive over them, knock them down? No.
Are you allowed to kill everyone else in the convoy? Yes.

The only way to complete this is to try to kill all the extra guys in the convey, and then fly tackle the two targets so you baton knock them down, for some hosed up reason they have to remain alive at the end.
While they are shooting at you at the same time from two positions so you can't ensure you have proper cover all the time.
It's loving retardly annoying.

kazil
Jul 24, 2005

A fancy little mouse🐁!

All the drat guns in Arkham Origins. Guns in predator areas are fine, that's what predator areas are about. But every fist fight in the game seems to involve a gun or five. It's really tiring trying to get across town to solve Riddler puzzles and poo poo and you end up in a fight with 5 armored enemies, 4 guns, 3 shields, 2 knives and a partridge in a pear tree.

The Moon Monster
Dec 30, 2005

muscles like this? posted:

Another thing about Watch Dogs is that you can actually shoot enemies without killing them. The game makes a distinction between "neutralizing" an enemy and killing them.

This distinction is kind of funny in the Batman Arkham games. I'll take the game's word that Batman isn't actually killing these guys, but I bet some of them spend the rest of their lifes hooked up to ventilators and feeding tubes, or at least severely disabled.

Byzantine
Sep 1, 2007

The Moon Monster posted:

This distinction is kind of funny in the Batman Arkham games. I'll take the game's word that Batman isn't actually killing these guys, but I bet some of them spend the rest of their lifes hooked up to ventilators and feeding tubes, or at least severely disabled.

Arkham Origins has Gordon call Batman out repeatedly on that.

Action Tortoise
Feb 18, 2012

A wolf howls.
I know how he feels.

The Moon Monster posted:

This distinction is kind of funny in the Batman Arkham games. I'll take the game's word that Batman isn't actually killing these guys, but I bet some of them spend the rest of their lifes hooked up to ventilators and feeding tubes, or at least severely disabled.

All of them have broken pelvises from Batman's repeated dick-punching.

Alteisen
Jun 4, 2007

by FactsAreUseless

Byzantine posted:

Arkham Origins has Gordon call Batman out repeatedly on that.

I'm playing Origins at the moment and had a good laugh over the police station "sneaking".

Like Alfred tells you take this concussion thing to not hurt city employees so much but when when I tried to be stealthy the game wouldn't me.

So I "sneaked" through the police station by kicking the absolute gently caress out of 90% of the cops in the building except for Gordon, I'm amazed he didn't throat punch Barbara when you bump into her.

scarycave
Oct 9, 2012

Dominic Beegan:
Exterminator For Hire
FFXIII Lightning Returns: *Bleep* *Bleep* Shut the gently caress up Hope.

Croccers
Jun 15, 2012

The Moon Monster posted:

This distinction is kind of funny in the Batman Arkham games. I'll take the game's word that Batman isn't actually killing these guys, but I bet some of them spend the rest of their lifes hooked up to ventilators and feeding tubes, or at least severely disabled.

Crippling Police for life is slightly better than murdering them! :eng101:
I mean... they're right but you know, you still really shouldn't encourage shooting police.
Actually the Scarface game had an interesting way of handling police.

Philippe
Aug 9, 2013

(she/her)

If adventurers who get arrowed in the knee become cops, what do cops who get shot in the knee become?

Action Tortoise
Feb 18, 2012

A wolf howls.
I know how he feels.

LoonShia posted:

If adventurers who get arrowed in the knee become cops, what do cops who get shot in the knee become?

Dispatchers.

FactsAreUseless
Feb 16, 2011

LoonShia posted:

If adventurers who get arrowed in the knee become cops, what do cops who get shot in the knee become?
Protagonists in an open-world game where they seek revenge by any means necessary, and their behavior is measured on a good vs. evil scale. Any cops they shoot go on the same journey. It's sleeping dogs all the way down.

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MiddleOne
Feb 17, 2011


No wonder the 911 dispatchers don't feel that anything is afoul when I gun down the people calling them. Their PTSD must be acting up from when I shot them earlier in the game. :v:

Watch Dogs is an odd game.

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