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Honestly by this point I believe that if Bethesda had made New Vegas instead of 3 people would bitch about it for violating the series' continuity so Bethesda could revive a faction canonically dead to spawn a loving Elder Scrolls Imperial knockoff with Caesar's Legion. Plus you can go to Las Vegas in Fallout 1 and it's a bombed out ruin, certainly not spared from the nukes by not-Tony Stark, Bethesda, quit loving up. They even hosed up Interplay's story by having the Brotherhood go to war with the NCR for some reason so they could turn the BoS into another Vault grr grr robble robble
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Mar 27, 2024 17:18
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Cliff posted:Plus it's so boring. You're going up against armies of regular people instead of vampires, mages, werewolf hunters, dragons, automatons, or other cool factions.
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Mar 27, 2024 17:29
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Byzantine posted:Honestly by this point I believe that if Bethesda had made New Vegas instead of 3 people would bitch about it for violating the series' continuity so Bethesda could revive a faction canonically dead to spawn a loving Elder Scrolls Imperial knockoff with Caesar's Legion. Plus you can go to Las Vegas in Fallout 1 and it's a bombed out ruin, certainly not spared from the nukes by not-Tony Stark, Bethesda, quit loving up. They even hosed up Interplay's story by having the Brotherhood go to war with the NCR for some reason so they could turn the BoS into another Vault grr grr robble robble What the absolute gently caress are you even on about
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Mar 27, 2024 17:54
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Byzantine posted:Honestly by this point I believe that if Bethesda had made New Vegas instead of 3 people would bitch about it for violating the series' continuity so Bethesda could revive a faction canonically dead to spawn a loving Elder Scrolls Imperial knockoff with Caesar's Legion. Plus you can go to Las Vegas in Fallout 1 and it's a bombed out ruin, certainly not spared from the nukes by not-Tony Stark, Bethesda, quit loving up. They even hosed up Interplay's story by having the Brotherhood go to war with the NCR for some reason so they could turn the BoS into another Vault grr grr robble robble That sure was a post you made
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Mar 27, 2024 18:00
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Byzantine posted:Honestly by this point I believe that if Bethesda had made New Vegas instead of 3 people would bitch about it for violating the series' continuity so Bethesda could revive a faction canonically dead to spawn a loving Elder Scrolls Imperial knockoff with Caesar's Legion. Plus you can go to Las Vegas in Fallout 1 and it's a bombed out ruin, certainly not spared from the nukes by not-Tony Stark, Bethesda, quit loving up. They even hosed up Interplay's story by having the Brotherhood go to war with the NCR for some reason so they could turn the BoS into another Vault grr grr robble robble Do you think 3 doesn't deserve the criticism it gets, or NV deserves criticism it doesn't get? What's the thesis here? Rockman Reserve posted:it’s funny that fo4 has so many problems with the plot and base building aspects that nobody ever even comments on how abysmal the leveling/perk system was as I recall it was barely worse than the system in 3, and nowhere near as bad as the abomination that is Starfield's leveling system.
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Mar 27, 2024 18:01
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Muscle Tracer posted:Do you think 3 doesn't deserve the criticism it gets, or NV deserves criticism it doesn't get? What's the thesis here? They're tired of "Bethesda bad" kneejerk and postulate what a critical analysis of FNV/Obsidian's changes to the mythos would look like through that lens, I guess. All I'll say is that NV was chock full of Cowboy guns while FO4 wasted a lot of their budget and time on moddable modular pipe guns that looked like rear end therefore NV is automatically superior.
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Mar 27, 2024 18:03
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It’s not really kneejerk when there’s multiple games to look back on and critique the bland writing, bad plot that occasionally borders on nonsensical, and staunch inability to move past the increasingly tired rubble and skeletons aesthetic of what should be a world rebuilding at this point but go off I guess.
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Mar 27, 2024 18:08
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There are definitely parts of New Vegas I wasn't high on, mostly the bits centred around Ulysses and the Legion, and it's comically easy to break with various bugs and glitches (at least on console where you can't really fix it), but in terms of characterisation and storytelling I much preferred to 3, and this is coming from someone who has never played the pre-Bethesda games. 3 was, in hindsight, mostly bland with a few highlights in the vaults and the occasional set piece like the hosed up 1950s simulation. Also, I liked the metro and how it was mostly all connected because I'm a train nerd, and they actually did a good job at capturing Washington's distinctive station interiors, but I belong to a very specific class of stupid dorks.
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Mar 27, 2024 18:09
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I mean FNV is a good rear end game and it does have some quests relating to infrastructure and poo poo, but it does also have rubble and skeletons
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Mar 27, 2024 18:09
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The Wicked ZOGA posted:I mean FNV is a good rear end game and it does have some quests relating to infrastructure and poo poo, but it does also have rubble and skeletons My skeletonchic complaint extends to it too, yeah. It was also made in a ridiculously short timeframe so asset reuse was kind of vital but it’s just something I really dislike in all the modern Fallout games, Bethesda or otherwise.
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Mar 27, 2024 18:26
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Fallout 1 and 2 present a world that's just absolutely completely bombed away. Like a Road Warrior or A Boy and His Dog situation; just flat radioactive desert with pockets of civilization. But while Bethesda's Fallouts go a different direction, it's hard to fault them because Fallout's artwork for like, loading screens and backgrounds for things and concept art actually look a lot like where Bethesda took it. I prefer what the gameplay of Fallout 1 and 2 made the world look like, but it seems clear that the developers wanted a more detailed, junk-filled ruin of a world than maybe games could handle at the time.
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Mar 27, 2024 18:29
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The FO4 rubblecore stuff is I think most egregious because of the settlement-builder. You start off building things out of repurposed sheet metal, but eventually you can make structures out of concrete and even futuristic, totally new-looking structures and furniture with the vault tech. That makes it all the more jarring that, like, you can't make any of the houses in the starting town new-looking, you can just clear some of them away, and nobody else in the entire world seems to have discovered any technology that isn't fundamentally salvage. It's at least understandable if they say "the knowledge to make new structures and technology was lost," but it clearly ISN'T lost, because YOU can do it.
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Mar 27, 2024 18:46
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I've always just assumed it's a world of completely nihilistic assholes with no interest in rebuilding
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Mar 27, 2024 18:55
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Instead of having the protagonist be a prewar soldier/lawyer, they should've been an architect. Bam, thats why they can build settlements and how they know how to build things that has been lost to time.
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Mar 27, 2024 18:55
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Leal posted:Instead of having the protagonist be a prewar soldier/lawyer, they should've been an architect. Bam, thats why they can build settlements and how they know how to build things that has been lost to time. You know, in retrospect it's weird they didn't go with that. They can still be a drafted soldier or whatever too
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Mar 27, 2024 19:00
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The Wicked ZOGA posted:I mean FNV is a good rear end game and it does have some quests relating to infrastructure and poo poo, but it does also have rubble and skeletons Wasn't the New Vegas strip rebuild decentlyish? I don't remember there being much rubble and skeletons there. It kinda made sense to me for the surrounding area not having rebuild given the constant threat of raiders and mutated wildlife and stuff, but places like the starting town seemed fairly realistic given the constant struggle for survival in a desert area with raiders and mutants and poo poo. Lacking because yeah that abandoned house two down still had stuff to scavenge and the remains of people just lying there, but okay enough for it to make sense somewhat? Now a big city like Washington or Boston with an established population still having rubble and skeletons, and everything being scrapped together even after 200 years, yeah that doesn't make sense.
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Mar 27, 2024 19:09
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Taeke posted:
Washington is full of ghouls and super mutants. The only human faction that has managed to establish themselves there is the Brotherhood of Steel.
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Mar 27, 2024 19:33
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Ah, right. It's been forever since I played FO3 and I don't remember much. Point still stands for for a place like Boston where there's a small town established in a baseball stadium (which is cool, preexisting, defendable structure and all that) where everything is still made of scrap even after two hundred years. That makes sense for the first couple of years but once you get a foothold and it's become a long term place to live you think people would get sick of that place to live being drafty all the time lol. It's not like they're lacking for building material.
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Mar 27, 2024 19:47
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Arrath posted:They're tired of "Bethesda bad" kneejerk and postulate what a critical analysis of FNV/Obsidian's changes to the mythos would look like through that lens, I guess. the best fo4 mod is a combo of the one mod that adds the super modular small caliber survival arms akin to poo poo like the sten, and then the companion mod that replaces all pipe weapons with the previous mod of sten-esque stuff.
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Mar 27, 2024 20:15
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they should have gone the Dragon Quest Builders route where "basic creativity" and "the ability to combine two objects" are treated like bizarre superpowers. No NPC can cook a food unless they watch you cook it first. They've never heard of a "blueprint".
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Mar 27, 2024 21:27
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You walk way too slowly for the size of the game world in Dragon's Dogma 2. If that weren't frustrating alone, your stamina still isn't infinite outside combat so you have to manage your sprint. It takes a long time to get anywhere. I would argue that the first hub is in a crappy place on the world map. It's the town at the bottom.  You're intended to set out from it every time to begin your adventure, but there aren't many exits, so your path will become rote quickly. Morpheus posted:Edit: In Dragon's Dogma 2, I decided to explore, and found a mine. Neat, went through the mine and cleared it of goblins. Went back to town. Got a quest to go to the mine. Fine, make my way all the way back to the mine, do the quest, come back. Find a guy in town who tells me to meet him...near the mine. Goddamnit. This got me too, some place called Trevo Mine early on. The lack of innovation over the first one in any way is a little depressing. CJacobs has a new favorite as of 10:45 on Mar 28, 2024 |
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Mar 28, 2024 10:39
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CJacobs posted:This got me too, some place called Trevo Mine early on. The lack of innovation over the first one in any way is a little depressing. There is a reason the title screen just says "Dragon's Dogma" instead of adding a "II" 
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Mar 28, 2024 11:26
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CJacobs posted:You walk way too slowly for the size of the game world in Dragon's Dogma 2. If that weren't frustrating alone, your stamina still isn't infinite outside combat so you have to manage your sprint. Didn't I read that someone from the dev team said he felt fast travel ruined games, or something, because you have to see all the work they put into the world? Then the publisher was like, "Lol, yeah yeah, that's totally the reason there's no fast travel...here, but these fast travel pack DLC micro-transactions."
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Mar 28, 2024 13:26
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I think fast travel can be good or bad. If the world is boring, you need it. But in a game like Red Dead 2, I never fast travel, because the world is just so gorgeous and there's so many little things to discover, or little events that happen, that if you fast travel everywhere, you do quite literally miss out on a huge amount of the game.
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Mar 28, 2024 13:45
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DrBouvenstein posted:Didn't I read that someone from the dev team said he felt fast travel ruined games, or something, because you have to see all the work they put into the world? No. The DLC is literally just a way to buy the stuff from the $10 extra edition.
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Mar 28, 2024 14:11
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Morrowind is the only game to do fast travel correctly that I'm aware of: multiple semi-interlocking modes of transportation, each with diegetic settings-appropriate reasons for existing, requiring game knowledge and experience to effectively use.
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Mar 28, 2024 15:46
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I dunno, "press butan, go to place" works fine for me, and lots of games do that
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Mar 28, 2024 15:52
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You can have the most beautiful hand crafted world ever but if I have to traverse it 5000 times I'd like fast travel please
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Mar 28, 2024 15:53
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The funniest execution of fast travel is in the GTA games. Like, sure, you can call a cab in GTA5, and I think you could take the subway in GTA4, but like, the whole point of that game is traveling, what are you even doing.
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Mar 28, 2024 16:04
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Sometimes you just want to get to the next set piece The thing dragging games down for me is being mid 30s and not having as much time to just gently caress around as I used to
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Mar 28, 2024 16:16
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Muscle Tracer posted:The funniest execution of fast travel is in the GTA games. Like, sure, you can call a cab in GTA5, and I think you could take the subway in GTA4, but like, the whole point of that game is traveling, what are you even doing. I'm glad they included the subway in IV though - it was a fairly decent (if obviously also very slimmed down) rendition that they put more detail into than they probably needed to. The tram-metro in V was awful though, and I don't even think you could skip between stations so it was even worthless as a fast travel option. Some have tried to imply that this is representative of LA's terrible public transport system.
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Mar 28, 2024 16:30
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kazil posted:You can have the most beautiful hand crafted world ever but if I have to traverse it 5000 times I'd like fast travel please Yeah, I'm someone who actively resists using fast travel on a first trip or when I'm naturally exploring, but if you're going to inevitably have quests that task me with running back and forth from point A to point B, then just let me warp.
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Mar 28, 2024 16:46
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Arrath posted:They're tired of "Bethesda bad" kneejerk and postulate what a critical analysis of FNV/Obsidian's changes to the mythos would look like through that lens, I guess. Yeah, basically. There's a lot of dumb stuff in Bethesda's Fallouts, sure, but "Bethesda bad" has hit the point where people will outright lie about things that happen in Bethout, and then other people who readily admit they didn't play/don't remember the games will nod along then go off and repeat it because obviously it's true, Bethesda Bad. Even when stuff is explicitly spelled out, it gets ignored, or doesn't matter, or Obsidian's version takes precedence even though the NCR-Brotherhood War is just as much of sequel invention as Scouring the Pitt, or or, etc.
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Mar 28, 2024 17:42
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DrBouvenstein posted:Didn't I read that someone from the dev team said he felt fast travel ruined games, or something, because you have to see all the work they put into the world? Yeah, that excuse definitely smells like bullshit. "We don't like fast travel because we want you to see the scenery!" "Ok, but fast travel is expressly for going to places you've already been. Therefore, you've seen the scenery at some point."
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Mar 28, 2024 17:52
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the only reason a game shouldn’t have fast travel is if the world is dynamic enough to mean you’ll see new things even walking the same route games don’t really do this
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Mar 28, 2024 17:54
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I think the microtransaction is a single placeable fast travel point so you can place it where you want to go a lot but it doesn't let you circumvent going to a place initially, I think you can find them rarely in the world as well, the actual fast travel currency items are reasonably common sidequest rewards/treasures that you find and you can buy them in game with 10000 gold (I've played for 10 or so hours and have 100000 gold and have found 5 of the items so I can fast travel a fair bit if I want, there's not much else to spend money on really, which is its own problem). I did tend to prefer not to fast travel in most games, very much a "I like the journey" type of player but Dragons Dogma 2 kinda doesn't have enough enemy/biome variety to justify that, the entire area I've been exploring has been green mountainous/forest regions with lots of goblins, wolves and harpies with the occasional bigger enemy and I know there's a canyon/mesa type area as well, they didn't show much else pre-release and people are saying that's mostly it unfortunately.
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Mar 28, 2024 18:12
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Fast travel ruined Daggerfall.
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Mar 28, 2024 18:16
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Byzantine posted:Yeah, basically. There's a lot of dumb stuff in Bethesda's Fallouts, sure, but "Bethesda bad" has hit the point where people will outright lie about things that happen in Bethout, and then other people who readily admit they didn't play/don't remember the games will nod along then go off and repeat it because obviously it's true, Bethesda Bad. Even when stuff is explicitly spelled out, it gets ignored, or doesn't matter, or Obsidian's version takes precedence even though the NCR-Brotherhood War is just as much of sequel invention as Scouring the Pitt, or or, etc. Case in point not that long ago someone was getting mad in the TES thread about how Bethesda stomped all over the sacrosanct lore of Morrowind with some minor Skyrim sidequest only for it to turn out they were completely wrong and just looking for something to get mad about. Or a classic one that I think has cropped up on this thread a few times, people claiming Bethesda tried to make the Brotherhood the good guys in Fallout 4. Of course, the Fallout thread also gets into monthly arguments about how according to Fallout 1 the Brotherhood works like this, but then Bethesda screwed everything up by having them act like that, but then NV says 
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Mar 28, 2024 18:35
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My problem with Bethesda is how half-hearted they are with their own ideas. The Institute is like the Underpant Gnomes. We never learn their goal or anything. Step 1. They meddle with the wasteland and conduct weird science experiments. Step 3. Profit. Step 2 is forthcoming.
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Mar 28, 2024 18:40
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Muscle Tracer posted:Like, sure, you can call a cab in GTA5, and I think you could take the subway in GTA4, but like, the whole point of that game is traveling, what are you even doing. Roleplaying, dawg.
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Mar 28, 2024 18:46
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