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Febreeze
Oct 24, 2011

I want to care, butt I dont
I never found the increased rats and weepers an issue playing high chaos because high chaos makes you not give a gently caress. The best way to play that game was play attack ghost where you hid and blinked around then charged in on surprise attacks killing everyone and hiding again before reinforcements showed up. It was so much more satisfying than pure stealth and way more interesting than just running headlong into battle each time. If you are always on rooftops rats and weepers aren't a threat.

I thought what dragged down dishonored was the story. The characters are all super obvious cliches and for such a weird world the story was incredibly generic as well. I didn't care about anyone the whole game and just tried to off everybody.

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Febreeze
Oct 24, 2011

I want to care, butt I dont

Doctor Bishop posted:

So I've noticed that both Dead Space and Resident Evil 4 have the same strange and very annoying problem of shots randomly failing to do jackshit to enemies (e.g. necromorphs keeping their limbs on despite multiple shots aimed directly at those limbs), which is especially bad considering that these are both survival-horror-type games with an emphasis on efficiently killing enemies to conserve ammo lest you run out and promptly meet a grisly end.

Edit: Also, holy poo poo, are Resident Evil 4's controls annoying. Why did they have to go with such an overly-complicated, nonsensical setup and not just give it more conventional third-person shooter controls?

E2: Specifically, I'm referring to the fact that your character doesn't turn with the camera except when readying his weapon.

Resident Evil 4 practically pioneered the over the shoulder camera 3rd person action game. It feels super clunky now but man when it came out everything felt so mobile. It feels weird to judge a game on current standards when it pioneered half of those standards.

But hey, if that's fair game, when I finally played Half Life 2 years after it came out I found it to be a tedious slog in several places. gently caress the buggy section, it goes on so long. At least the airboat was fun to control.

Febreeze
Oct 24, 2011

I want to care, butt I dont

Judge Tesla posted:

Or you could just use the Rocket Launcher you find not long before fighting Verdugo to blow him to pieces in a single shot.

That's what the game kind of wants you to do yeah, but you get the Rocket launcher not directly before the boss, but randomly lying in a room with some game to go before you actually reach the sewer part. Plus, the launcher takes up so much goddamn room in your inventory at that stage that I ended up passing on it so I could keep my magnum and half my ammo. Then I got to Verdugo and was like "poo poo, that's why the rocket launcher was there".

My friend actually took it, then blew up a cluster of enemies not realizing he'd drop the thing forever and not get more ammo.

Febreeze
Oct 24, 2011

I want to care, butt I dont
Oh man looks like I'm late to the Prime chat but Prime 1 is basically my favorite game ever, I really liked Prime 2 but the dark world was just kind of boring. They didn't go far enough with it. It was just the light world with purple filters. The ammo system was dumb too. But it was still a good game. It really was just Prime 1 but harder. Also I'm in the gently caress the Boost guardian camp, I liked the spider guardian.

Prime 3 was a letdown. Most complaints have been addressed (gently caress THAT FIRST BOSS WITH THE ORBS HOLY gently caress) but one thing I haven't seen mentioned is the very segmented world. 3 planets, all small in scope compared to the first games, lots of extra long loading screens. I didn't mind backtracking in the first two because everything felt so well organized and cohesive. Prime 3 not so much. So many long obvious load screens.

Febreeze
Oct 24, 2011

I want to care, butt I dont

tsaofen posted:

Anyway content: Metro: Last Light is a fantastically atmospheric game. But, I spent too much time in the early game surface levels and now I am out of filters in the last level of the game. Basically, the game world was so cool that I got screwed over by exploring it. Why design a thing when I'm supposed to just sprint through it and never look at it?

Loot the bodies. I'm legitimately surprised you ran out of filters because I took my time and by the end of the game I had like 20 in backstock.

Last Light was a great game but it really fell apart in the final act. When the final battle happens and the game ends I was like "Wait that was the ending?" The first game built up to a fantastic climax but the second one just ramps things up, and ramps up more, then all of a sudden you realize it was the endgame and there isn't any more.

Febreeze
Oct 24, 2011

I want to care, butt I dont
I recently obtained a PS2 and several games for it for free. Since I never had one I was pretty pumped to play a few classics I missed.

I started Okami and so far it feels like the wolf sections of Twilight Princess done right. But holy poo poo, gently caress your little brush guide character. For all the hate Navi gets in OoT the Okami guy is way worse. He has a toneless version of Midna's voice and he interrupts you more than Navi ever did. He'd be worse than Fi if he didn't have what slightly charming personality he does have

Febreeze
Oct 24, 2011

I want to care, butt I dont

John Murdoch posted:

I'll do you one better: I don't get up to any kind of open world shenanigans at all if I can help it. I got my fill of torturing helpless NPCs when I was 12 playing GTA3 for the first time ever. Even the Saints Row games do nothing for me in that regard, or the oft-touted hilarity of stuffing people into trunks in Sleeping Dogs. It's also no big surprise then that I found Just Cause 2 to be wildly overrated.

I like some aspects to open worlds over others. I never wandered around in Saints Row or GTA blowing people up for fun because it didn't feel that fun to me, however it was a blast to just grab a fast car, blast the radio and drive around at top speed until you ran into things.

Just Cause 2 had the tether, which made loving with people more fun, but I still played it to rampage around in vehicles. The game world itself was way too copy/paste with all the radio towers and various bases all with the same scenery.

Driving around aimlessly in open worlds is just the best

Febreeze
Oct 24, 2011

I want to care, butt I dont

Pocket Billiards posted:

I liked Darksiders 1 a whole lot.

I thought Darksider 2 was passable.

Honestly I liked and hated different things about each one.

DS1 was tighter and more fun to explore, combat was a little too repetitive but the atmosphere was great and the story, while cheesy as hell, was kind of fun. Overall I was left wanting more. Zelda with god of war combat was a great idea and they fell just short.

DS2 was way bigger but suffered pacing problems. If the two first worlds had been smaller it would have been great and there are just too many fights with too much padding. They took all their ideas and stretched them too far, the worst offender being the earth section with the turrets. Then the final 3rd of the game was obviously heavily cut. But Death was more fun than War, the game felt like the appropriate scope as opposed to DS1, dungeons were smarter and the soundtrack was incredible. I also loved how much more mobile Death was compared to War.

Febreeze
Oct 24, 2011

I want to care, butt I dont

Inspector Gesicht posted:

Finally finished all 31 main and side quests in Fallout 3. I found the game engaging enough to complete, but not enough to try all the DLC or replay differently.

Honestly the DLC Broken Steel and Point Lookout are worth playing. Broken Steel gives the game a better ending than the anti-climactic dump the original one is, and Point Lookout is just a fun new area to check out with some goofy quests and challenging enemies. Plus, since you've effectively beaten the game, the obnoxious enemies added on in broken steel won't bother you much (gently caress you feral ghoul reavers, gently caress you)

The Pitt was meh and the other two are crap.

Febreeze
Oct 24, 2011

I want to care, butt I dont

RBA Starblade posted:

It's been a while but I thought a super missile was a one hit kill against the ghosts.

It might be, but they are hard to hit with the Super Missiles because they are so fast. They are difficult if you happen to fight them before you find the x-ray visor as you can't track them and by the time you see one appear you have to dodge them and fire back in a short window of time. Not to mention their attack buzzes you out and stuns you for a second, and there are always 3 of them attacking at once. AND they only suffer damage from the charge beam.

They are just tedious once you get the x-ray visor though, and once you beat them the first time in a certain room you can just walk open the doors since they won't lock on you.

Febreeze
Oct 24, 2011

I want to care, butt I dont

Ugly In The Morning posted:

The armored guys were worse for me since if they're next to a normal dude with an everyday average punchable face, it's pretty hard to get batman to hit the guy he can hit instead of going and punching the armored one like an idiot.

Honestly as smooth as the combat is in the arkham games I frequently found myself purposefully avoiding it by the end because it got repetitive and just knocking them out in goofy batman ways, batarangs and gel were more fun to me.

Especially in City when you can do that silly cartwheel/gel bomb move. I would run around dropping mines and laugh as they all blew up behind me

Febreeze
Oct 24, 2011

I want to care, butt I dont
When NV came out all I remember is people talking about how broken it was. The most positive reviews I remember reading at launch were basically "If you can get past the frequent gamebreaking bugs there is a really rewarding experience". It feels like it took the better part of a year for it to reach the almost godly reputation it has now.

Febreeze
Oct 24, 2011

I want to care, butt I dont
Here's a FO4 thing that has nothing to do with the story or bugs

I feel like the enemies use an obscene amount of Molotovs in this game. It feels like every time I end up in a fight with a group of raiders or super mutants they are just chucking molotovs like candy and it's irritating as gently caress. They are extremely accurate with them too, I can't stand still and slowly strafe or anything because I'm immediately engulfed in flames, and you don't get any warning to avoid it like you do with regular grenades. I've started using only rifles and melee exclusively simply so that I'm never in that midrange spot when they start hucking firebombs.

Febreeze
Oct 24, 2011

I want to care, butt I dont
I hated BioShock infinite and the two gun limit was my least favorite part. They finally made the combat feel kind of fun instead of sluggish and then they saddle you with two weapons max. I can't count how many times I'd enter a battle arena and my current particular weapons didn't suit the arena well, or I'd run out of ammo because the enemies just had all different guns.

If they let you use every weapon you came across like 1&2, letting you play each battle the way you wanted too with way more options, I might have almost forgave the rest of the game.

Also gently caress enemies that teleport and revive dead guys. gently caress them so hard.

Febreeze
Oct 24, 2011

I want to care, butt I dont
I was an incredibly frequent TF2 nut until the Demo/Soldier update. The instant I played with the new demo knight thing I just sad "nope this is terrible" and I haven't touched it since. That game was so good and it just changed

Febreeze
Oct 24, 2011

I want to care, butt I dont

Leavemywife posted:

Could you explain what that update changed and why it made things terrible?

The guy below you explained it pretty well but yeah, the demoknight. The game was deteoriating by that point with all the hat bullshit and updates changing the way classes played. The balance started going out the window. Then they make it so that one class completely changes, effectively adding a tenth, really annoying class that didn't feel well balanced at all.

The bad part was right after major updates like this, everyone would be trying out the new stuff for weeks so every server was like 6 demoknights and a 5 soldiers( since the soldier updated at the same time) and it felt like a different, far worse game.

Febreeze
Oct 24, 2011

I want to care, butt I dont
In Metroid, it's because it's the first game

In Metroid 2, because it's an early game boy game story didn't matter

In Super Metroid, really it's because it's just a souped up remake of the first one

In Prime 1 an explosion fucks up her suit

In Prime 2 a bunch of dimensional beings "steal" her powers, which is stupid as gently caress, but then they use them against her in boss battles, which is actually awesome (except gently caress the Boost guardian)

In Prime 3, she actually has her basic powerups already, but she gets infected with Phazon and they modify her suit

in Fusion, a parasite infection requires surgical removal, and that parasite uses her poo poo against her later, which is awesome

in Metroid other M, because the writer was a loving idiot


But really, it's so that they can keep the exploratory gameplay each time

Febreeze
Oct 24, 2011

I want to care, butt I dont
I loved both Metro games and I didn't even remember a Bear fight and had to look it up after seeing it mentioned in this thread. I guess I got lucky when I fought it because I don't remember it at all, so it must have been an easy fight for me for whatever reason.

The boss I ended up hating was before that, at the end of the swamp section, the big green thing. I pumped bullets into it but there was no health bar or visible indication that the thing was taking damage, and it just kept soaking up bullets for what seemed a long time and I got worried I was doing it wrong until I looked it up and yeah, you just have to shoot it a lot.

Last Light was a good game but it really kind of drifted off at the end. The first game built up to the entire tower climb, the second one just sort of has you wander around feeling like something is coming, then you fight the nazis in a tense battle, and it just ends. When I killed the tank I thought there would be more to it but that was it.

Febreeze
Oct 24, 2011

I want to care, butt I dont
I grabbed Broforce for free on PSN a few days ago and until today I would have heartily recommended it, but the game really gets poo poo as it goes on.

For one thing, the Bro system is kind of terrible. You start off as whatever bro. You find cages in the levels and break them to "rescue" new bros. When you rescue them, you get an extra life. Considering you always die in one hit (except if your the Boondock Bros), there's really no reason to not rescue the Bros because you'll die from random stray bullets all the time. Plus, the more guys you rescue, the more new Bros you unlock for use. The problem is, when you rescue a bro, you automatically become that bro. You don't have a choice. If you like your current bro, you either have to give up an extra life (and if you die you respawn as a new bro anyway), or you have to sacrifice your bro and hope the guy you rescued isn't poo poo.

This isn't a big deal in the first third of the game or so because all the approaches are viable, but as the game goes on and you unlock more bros you start to really resent the system because getting a bad bro can completely gently caress you. A lot of them are very situational (especially Macguver bro, who only throws bombs. Or Cherry Darling, who only shoots downwards and walks poorly). As time goes on a lot of the enemies start getting explosive and the explosive barrels get more frequent, and the discrepancy between bros gets more noticeable. By the end of the game melee Bros like Conan or Blade are actively dangerous to get stuck with. There are enemies in the final section of the game that explode pretty much on contact, and they are flying around everywhere. You simply don't stand a chance if you get stuck with a melee bro, and it's aggravating as poo poo, because by the end it feels like your fighting the random bro system instead of the enemies. You essentially just keep rolling the dice until you spawn a good bro.

The game really needs to let you be able to control who you are to some degree, like being able to cycle through a limited number of bros you pre-select or from whoever you've rescued from the level. If the Bros were all functionally the same character with minor differences, this wouldn't be an issue. But the difference in having Conan make wimpy slashes at dangerously close range and having Dredd shoot homing bullets from a safe perch is almost gamebreakingly huge. I want to manually turn on hard mode, not have the game decide to give it to me whenever.

Honestly though, if the mechanic is okay with you, whatever. But by the final levels, the game started to dip into very low framerates, very frequently. Even the simple pixel art was making the game lag. One type of enemy i never got a clear look at, because whenever it was on screen everything turned molasses and half the frames made it invisible. It was barely playable. I fought through it, mostly because I knew I was at the end of the game, but it was pretty terrible.

Then, against the final boss, during his second form, it bugged out on me. I lost a life and never respawned. The game just kept playing. I figured whatever, quit out, try the boss again. Nope. Turns out if you quit a level, you quit the entire section. For reference, most "levels" are made up of 3-5 areas. The final level is about 10+ sections of extreme low framerate chugging bullshit enemies crap over and over again. I had spent about 2 hours fighting that poo poo only to lose all the progress because of a bug. I doubt I'll pick up the game again. It's a shame, because it really is fun when things are going good.

BillmasterCozb posted:

(according to my brother) every level of Bro Force begins with two seconds of lag, because of the game auto saving.

And the only thing that lags is your character. Not the enemies. I had many deaths caused by running to start the level, my character freezes for a second, and an enemy hits me while I'm frozen

gently caress Broforce man

Febreeze has a new favorite as of 06:01 on Mar 16, 2016

Febreeze
Oct 24, 2011

I want to care, butt I dont
I loving loved the Metro games, the first one especially. They did a great job with atmosphere and immersion, at least to my sensibilities. Some of my favorite shooters.

But yeah, it's pretty linear, if you aren't enjoying the story and the setting it won't get better. The game play in 1 is rough and frustrating at times, and last light is too easy. I also thought LL tapered off towards the end once you meet up with the Dark one kid and I remember being like "wait that was the last level?" After I beat the invasion part. 1 had a much better climax . The swamp section was incredible though.

Febreeze
Oct 24, 2011

I want to care, butt I dont

Morglon posted:

I actually like the Metro games but I didn't finish the first one when I got it, only after they released the Redux version and I finished Last Light. You see the thing that ruined 2033 for me the first time around was the crossfire bridge level. It took me forever to get through, I spent hours there trying to do it right only to finally get a perfect stealth run, climb up the ladder on the other side, get stuck and my save corrupts.

I distinctly remember that part sucking dick.

The one section near the end with the explosive bubble things was also a slog. The gameplay in 2033 really is pretty bad

Febreeze
Oct 24, 2011

I want to care, butt I dont

Lunchmeat Larry posted:

Broforce owns. The noses are stupid though yeah.

There was a good game in Broforce somewhere but the random bro system was garbage. You couldn't choose who you got, and half of them sucked horribly, aka all the melee guys. Then you die in one hit and switch bros. But you always change bros when you pickup an extra life (which are vital in a one hit kill game) so you might have a great bro like Robocop who can aim his shots, pick up a life, and then get stuck with neo, who punches 3 pixels to his left. It would be fine if you could swap between what bros you had rescued and only lost Robocop if you got hit as him, but nope.

During the later levels there are bullets flying from everywhere offscreen and all the melee fighters become useless

Febreeze
Oct 24, 2011

I want to care, butt I dont
Im playing BotW right now and I love it more than I expected to. Im with the weapon durability defender guy, I thought id hate it but I like it. I always carry one of each elemental weapon for easy counter kills and a few generic weapons for fodder and Im never short on what I need. It's the first time weapon durability feels purposeful instead of a pointless addition. When you work with it instead of trying to fight it everything seems to click.

I just wish the combat was better as it feels a bit shallow and I wish there were more enemy types. This would have been an ideal game for a like-like to show up.

Horses are useless as poo poo. I love exploring and climbing everything so if Im going anywhere im always veering off course to check poo poo out so constantly getting on and off the horse is a waste. If I need to actually be somewhere specific I just fast-travel. I think Ive used a horse once.

I also wish there was a way to orgainze and order my inventory so it's less tedious to grab stuff for cooking.

Febreeze
Oct 24, 2011

I want to care, butt I dont
I really love Ghost of Tsushima's combat but I get really annoyed during the parts where they have a hostage somewhere and one of the enemies decides he's going to kill them, so you have to suddenly drop what you are doing and stop the guy before he can execute the hostage.

I understand why the developers put it in the game: it makes sense thematically that they'd do it and it makes the hostages actually matter, plus it gives a little wrinkle of complexity to the situation to purposefully throw off the rhythm and make you consider more things, but in practice, it just sucks.

You can be in the middle of a big fight, right in the zone when the game is at it's best, and then all of a sudden you have to deal with this bullshit guy running away and you have to break off, get hurt in the process and go kill them. But it breaks immersion with the combat and the game itself, because the bad guy will run to the hostage and then stand there for 5 seconds yelling at them before actually killing the hostage because the game has to give you a chance to stop them. If you get there early it is very obvious the game is giving you ample time to prevent it. However you can still easily gently caress it up if the wrong enemy decides to go for it and you can't figure out how to get in the house or around an obstacle or accidentally climb something while running over.

Lastly, many of the hostages are in cramped locations, so you end up next to them fighting the camera and not being able to see what you are doing as well since the other enemies follow you in to fight. The game rules when you have a little arena to fight in and the interiors just aren't great for it

Febreeze
Oct 24, 2011

I want to care, butt I dont

Calaveron posted:

I can appreciate the ghosts of Tsushima guys wanting to keep the game's ui as clean as possible but the wind is a terrible way to do it. I’m constantly swiping up so there's always a wind icon on the center of the screen and all the particle effects fluttering around just look awful. Plus there's too much going on at the time, at one point I was following torii gates while a golden bird chirped overhead, the wind blew a ton of grass all over the place, a fox danced around me and the enemy indicators started going on, it’s too much

I think you might be the only person I've seen actually complain about the wind mechanic instead of praise it. To each his own I guess

I think the wind is utterly brilliant and I love wandering around looking at the actual landscape instead of a mini map and just occasionally swiping to keep myself on track if I got distracted by a thing

I do agree the particle effects can be a bit much on occasion, not everywhere needs to have tons of lightning bugs

Febreeze
Oct 24, 2011

I want to care, butt I dont
Souls games have really enjoyable exploration and its annoying that so many people just disregard that part and think its purely about the combat. Most of the fun in a first run is finding all the secret nooks and crannies in the levels to find items and stuff. I'd still really enjoy the games even with piss easy enemies for that aspect, plus the art design and other parts besides combat. The hard enemies just make subsequent playthroughs more fun.

There's a sweet spot in Souls where you make a certain level of progress each run. Deaths are understandable and expected. The difficulty stops being fun after you've run into the same wall a certain number of times, and that threshold is different for everyone. An easy mode would allow more people to hit that sweet spot where you still die a bunch, but not too much as to ruin the fun and stifle the feeling of progress.

Tl:dr I'm a souls vet and easy mode would be welcome

Febreeze
Oct 24, 2011

I want to care, butt I dont
I'm not sure Bloodborne has any bad weapons, they all kinda rule in their own way. Probably the best weapons in any game

My favorite is the Amy Arm, aka giant smashy chicken wing, complete with whip scythe tendon that wiggles a lot

Febreeze
Oct 24, 2011

I want to care, butt I dont

Len posted:

If devs didn't include them instead of posts like this we would have posts going "it's so dumb that you just hoover things up with no animations"

Would we? Ghost of Tsushima lets you press a button 6 feet away from an item and it just vanishes into your inventory. BotW did the same thing. I didn't see much complaining. In fact I saw a lot of praise for it.

I love HZD but I 100% want them to remove animations for scavenging. Having to stop moving, hold down a button to activate, then press another button just to grab a small health herb was irritating.

Febreeze
Oct 24, 2011

I want to care, butt I dont

Sally posted:

in the Tomb Raider reboot, it takes Lara Croft a fraction of a second to loot something off of a corpse. Just long enough to acknowledge the button press--and bam, it's in your inventory, you've got some scrap or a relic, and yer on yer way. Lara stoops over for their fraction of a second but control is returned instantly and you get back to shooting thugs and skinning wolves.

I don't want a hoover item pick-up... but i don't want a long rear end animation... Tomb Raider is my ideal.

Death Stranding, which is honestly a game built around managing these tiny interactions, still had the ability to grab chiral crystals off the ground at full sprint and all it did was briefly slow time with his hand reaching out to show you got it and frankly it was perfect

I also loved DS but it had the same stupid "hold button to confirm" thing HZD does in parts and that practice needs to go away. Don't make me hold a button for a second, just let me hit it and move on

Febreeze
Oct 24, 2011

I want to care, butt I dont
I bought Outer Wilds and I was really expecting to like it, and there's so much about it that I love, but I am so so tired of fighting the controls. Tired of just missing a proper landing or just overshooting a jump or getting randomly hurled into space due to the physics, and the longer I play the more irritating it gets because a lot of the exploration requires particular timing to see certain things and if you miss the window you have to kill yourself to reset the cycle or do something else, and I've run out of most things to see that don't require time management and tedious waiting.

I really gave it a shot but I just want to explore and figure out the mysteries and I feel like half my time is spent stressing out trying to properly navigate and move where I want to go

Febreeze
Oct 24, 2011

I want to care, butt I dont

Kit Walker posted:


The controls are a bit tricky to learn but they're really not THAT hard. Autopilot usually gets you to a good speed when you approach a planet that all you have to do is switch to the landing cam mode and feather upward acceleration as you approach so you don't smash into the planet too hard. There are very few things that require careful control and you even get a gauge that shows you which direction you're accelerating so you don't get confused. I still had the occasional fuckup (like accidentally accelerating into the planet instead of away when landing) but they're usually pretty easy to recover from and immensely hilarious anyway

The physics were funny the first few times things went wrong but after that it just becomes tedious and irritating. Just let me land. Just let me jump onto that rock without sending me into space. I was only enjoying myself when I was just walking and reading stuff. At that point, may as well watch the game on YouTube since the game part wasn't much fun anymore.

I gave up for good when I tried landing on Hollows lantern for the 3rd time in a row and a small jump to get up the side of the volcano somehow sent me flying into space...again. Game has a great world and great vibes but man I just wasn't enjoying myself by the end

Febreeze has a new favorite as of 02:53 on Jul 26, 2021

Febreeze
Oct 24, 2011

I want to care, butt I dont

Gaius Marius posted:

Horizon has boxes with random loot. They're loot boxes. They have zero reason to be in the game.

Do you just consider any game with randomized loot a lootbox? Darksiders 2 is a game where every chest drops random gear/weapons/cash, does that make them lootboxes?

You aren't wrong that they don't really add anything to the game and they kinda suck as rewards, but I think most people consider lootboxes specifically to be the gambling mechanic. You can completely ignore all your box rewards in HZD and just sell it all for cash and buy what you want.

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Febreeze
Oct 24, 2011

I want to care, butt I dont
I picked up a whole slew of games I never got around to playing this recent steam sale and have been working my way through them, maybe it was because I came off the back of Doom 2016 and Titanfall 2 but Wolfenstien: The New Order felt...bad. the first half was okay, then it felt like it just dragged on and got worse and worse. The shooting arenas felt undercooked and the difficulty felt like it went from too easy to brutal randomly. the moon mission was such a disappointment, felt like they had a perfect playground for fun and it is just a 2 minute walk outside and cramped corridors

Then I played the Old Blood and I liked it way better, even after the weird twist 2/3rds of the way through when it suddenly becomes Doom . It just felt better laid out for shooting arenas

If I didn't like TNO but generally liked TOB, is New Collossus worth picking up?

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