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bhsman posted:Why play non-blue Aggro when you could not? Because Wild Nacatl is a cool and bad card
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May 16, 2016 20:17
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Sigma-X posted:Between DRS and Terminus there isn't a good goblins matchup anywhere, Merfolk should be the anti-counter-top deck but again, terminus exists, and yeah, Zoo isn't a deck. Goblins is one of miracles' worst matchups other than 12 post and merfolk is an OK but not great matchup post-warping wail. Lands is a good matchup though.
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May 16, 2016 20:29
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Elyv posted:Because Wild Nacatl is a cool and bad card I actually would like to see Delver eventually banned in Legacy, but I'm weird.
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May 16, 2016 20:51
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bhsman posted:I actually would like to see Delver eventually banned in Legacy, but I'm weird. Same except pauper.
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May 16, 2016 21:01
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bhsman posted:I actually would like to see Delver eventually banned in Legacy, but I'm weird. Personally, I don't think there's anything that needs to be banned, but, there are still several things that could be unbanned safely. Earthcraft: It only untaps basic lands, and the Squirrel Nest combo is slow. Goblin Recruiter: The only thing I hear about this is "Time", but that's irrelevant if people are practiced with the deck. Is there a stacking of goblins that would ensure consistent T3 wins anyway? Hermit Druid: I don't think this is as broken as people say it is. It's slower than Balustrade Spy/Undercity Informer, easy to kill, and would only likely find a niche in some glass-cannon combo deck. Mind Twist: You need three mana to make this comparable to Hymn. It's not good. It's not scary. Survival of the Fittest: This was terrifying five years ago. I think unbanning it to see if it's still terrifying would be interesting.
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May 16, 2016 21:11
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Kraus posted:Personally, I don't think there's anything that needs to be banned, but, there are still several things that could be unbanned safely. Recruiter actually enables Belcher decks as well as food chain goblins and is super not okay in legacy and never will be.
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May 16, 2016 21:19
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PleasantDirge posted:Recruiter actually enables Belcher decks as well as food chain goblins and is super not okay in legacy and never will be. How is Recruiter better than just using Land Grant to get your only land out of your deck? Edit: Belcher doesn't have Goblin as a subtype. And how scary is Food Chain Goblins? We've got zero data on its performance. Cards can always be re-banned. No one will die from this experiment. Kraus fucked around with this message at 21:25 on May 16, 2016 |
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May 16, 2016 21:22
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suicidesteve posted:Same except pauper. is a man not entitled to the Gush of his brow
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May 16, 2016 21:43
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bhsman posted:I actually would like to see Delver eventually banned in Legacy, but I'm weird. I think Delver could get hosed too, and I have played it many a time. It's probably the biggest mistake they've made with "combat" creatures (as opposed to creatures you play for their non-combat abilities like DRS)
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May 16, 2016 21:50
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Kraus posted:How is Recruiter better than just using Land Grant to get your only land out of your deck? Edit: Belcher doesn't have Goblin as a subtype. Watch the recruiter videos here and see the last time someone tried it. http://www.channelfireball.com/videos/the-banned-series-windfall-and-goblin-recruiter/ Its quite good.
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May 16, 2016 22:13
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One advantage for Hermit Druid is it digs for a basic instead of any land, so you can run lands for real in that deck.
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May 16, 2016 22:25
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black potus posted:One advantage for Hermit Druid is it digs for a basic instead of any land, so you can run lands for real in that deck. What deck wants to mill-tutor for basics rather than just dumping their library?
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May 16, 2016 23:07
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Kraus posted:What deck wants to mill-tutor for basics rather than just dumping their library? It's more that you actually get to run lands (as long as they're nonbasic) in your deck while not losing functionality
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May 16, 2016 23:11
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I'm saying you can play duals and no basics so that druid dumps library still, but you can play disruption or cantrip with an actual mana base instead of having to be as all in on the combo.
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May 16, 2016 23:12
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black potus posted:I'm saying you can play duals and no basics so that druid dumps library still, but you can play disruption or cantrip with an actual mana base instead of having to be as all in on the combo. I'd welcome this diversity.
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May 16, 2016 23:56
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I'd like us all to take a moment to appreciate the fact that Hermit Druid - the 2 mana creature that says "G, Tap: Win the game" - is legal in commander.
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May 17, 2016 00:58
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Irony Be My Shield posted:I'd like us all to take a moment to appreciate the fact that Hermit Druid - the 2 mana creature that says "G, Tap: Win the game" - is legal in commander. I have a friend who's putting together a Dralnu deck, which has Dream Halls, Doomsday, Necro, Sol Ring, Mana Crypt, Yawgmoth's Will, Demonic, Vampiric, Time Spiral, Treasure Cruise, Dig Through Time at least Basically lolEDH Elyv fucked around with this message at 01:39 on May 17, 2016 |
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May 17, 2016 01:32
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Bugsy posted:Watch the recruiter videos here and see the last time someone tried it. http://www.channelfireball.com/videos/the-banned-series-windfall-and-goblin-recruiter/ Unban recruiter, let me run wild like hulkamania with my goblins.
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May 17, 2016 07:43
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Kraus posted:I'd welcome this diversity. hm yes a format a very powerful, consistent, and resilient turn 2 kill deck that could run as much disruption as it wants would be very diverse might as well unban flash hulk while you're at it 
Zoness fucked around with this message at 21:20 on May 19, 2016 |
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May 19, 2016 21:17
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Kraus posted:Mind Twist: You need three mana to make this comparable to Hymn. It's not good. It's not scary. The thing about Mind Twist is that no one will ever try to cast it in a fair capacity. Unbanning it will either do nothing (in which case there was no point), or create a deck that uses it unfairly (in which case banning it was a mistake). Never unban cards that are weak when used fairly.
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May 19, 2016 21:33
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Mind twist is absolutely fair, in a world where slow mirrors exist. Just twisting for 3 or 4 on turn 8 is enough to win most grindy mirrors. Its just not a fast card, and probably hot garbage in the legacy of the moment.
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May 19, 2016 21:35
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Zoness posted:hm yes a format a very powerful, consistent, and resilient turn 2 kill deck that could run as much disruption as it wants would be very diverse You know, I suppose I hadn't considered how little room in the deck the combo would occupy.
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May 19, 2016 21:43
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Niton posted:The thing about Mind Twist is that no one will ever try to cast it in a fair capacity. Unbanning it will either do nothing (in which case there was no point), or create a deck that uses it unfairly (in which case banning it was a mistake). I believe that only cards whose bannings serve a demonstrable purpose should be banned. If Mind Twist is not a threat, it shouldn't be banned. Its unbanning serves to correct the list, so that it is a list of threatening cards. Pox doesn't generate tremendous amounts of black mana, and if you are generating tremendous amounts of black mana, why not just play Storm?
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May 19, 2016 21:48
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Niton posted:The thing about Mind Twist is that no one will ever try to cast it in a fair capacity. Unbanning it will either do nothing (in which case there was no point), or create a deck that uses it unfairly (in which case banning it was a mistake). ....a year after they unbanned Black Vise.
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May 19, 2016 21:58
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Off the top of my head it seems like you could easily jam Mind Twist into combo elves for T2-T3 full hand wipes, without disrupting the gameplan of the deck at all. There's probably something else like Veteran Explorer decks that could make them very powerful very quickly.
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May 19, 2016 23:09
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Sigma-X posted:Off the top of my head it seems like you could easily jam Mind Twist into combo elves for T2-T3 full hand wipes, without disrupting the gameplan of the deck at all. There's probably something else like Veteran Explorer decks that could make them very powerful very quickly. Decreasing creature saturation does hurt the gameplan of the deck somewhat  .
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May 19, 2016 23:31
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Sigma-X posted:Off the top of my head it seems like you could easily jam Mind Twist into combo elves for T2-T3 full hand wipes, without disrupting the gameplan of the deck at all. There's probably something else like Veteran Explorer decks that could make them very powerful very quickly.
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May 19, 2016 23:35
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Wasn't there a guy on CFB doing a series of what-if articles for Modern un-bannings? I wonder if anyone has ever done articles like that for Legacy.
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May 20, 2016 00:53
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C-Euro posted:Wasn't there a guy on CFB doing a series of what-if articles for Modern un-bannings? I wonder if anyone has ever done articles like that for Legacy.
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May 20, 2016 01:05
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He talks about what you could do if a card were unbanned, but we need to see it played.
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May 20, 2016 02:38
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Kraus posted:He talks about what you could do if a card were unbanned, but we need to see it played.
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May 20, 2016 02:39
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standard.deviant posted:If Elves can make 5-6 mana on turn 2-3 and want to blow their wad on a counterable X spell that does not win the game even if it resolves, more power to them. Do you think combo elves does not generate retarded mana by turn 3? Whether or not it's ideal you'd have to test, and it may not be maindeckable. But considering the deck runs a grip of cabal therapies and frequently additional thoughtseizes / duresses in combo heavy metas, it does not seem like a card that would dodge the deck. There is nothing wrong with casting a spell that says "have force of will or lose" and there are both plenty of combo decks that are potential targets, along with Miracles (a rough elves matchup), Shardless BUG (doesn't even run a grip of FoW), and Jund that would all be decent to fight with huge random discard advantage.
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May 20, 2016 04:14
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standard.deviant posted:Scroll down that page and you can see videos of him playing decks built around each card. His mind twist videos are pretty much him getting destroyed by the major decks of the time, because he decided to go with Tezerator as a shell.
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May 20, 2016 04:38
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Sigma-X posted:Off the top of my head it seems like you could easily jam Mind Twist into combo elves for T2-T3 full hand wipes, without disrupting the gameplan of the deck at all. There's probably something else like Veteran Explorer decks that could make them very powerful very quickly. If you're going to reliably have it on t2-t3, you're running 3-4 of them. The deck works because it's extremely redundant, it's not worth sacrificing that. This deck often uses 3+ Cabal Therapy on the SB, and with ~a couple hundred hours of Elves piloting under my belt, I think that Mind Twist is a lot worse than Cabal Therapy in this deck. Sigma-X posted:Do you think combo elves does not generate retarded mana by turn 3? quote:There is nothing wrong with casting a spell that says "have force of will or lose" Cabbages and VHS fucked around with this message at 04:57 on May 20, 2016 |
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May 20, 2016 04:54
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Sigma-X posted:Off the top of my head it seems like you could easily jam Mind Twist into combo elves for T2-T3 full hand wipes, without disrupting the gameplan of the deck at all. There's probably something else like Veteran Explorer decks that could make them very powerful very quickly. your ideas for abusing cards are as terrible as Kraus's rationale for unbanning cards which says a lot lmbo
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May 20, 2016 10:33
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So here's my junk midrange list and GP trip report for those who were asking: 4x Noble Hierarch 2x Birds of Paradise 4x Voice of Resurgence 2x Scavenging Ooze 1x Qasali Pridemage 4x Kitchen Finks 4x Siege Rhino 1x Thrun, the Last Troll 4x Lingering Souls 4x Path to Exile 2x Abrupt Decay 2x Maelstrom Pulse 1x Sorin, Solemn Visitor 1x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar 4x Windswept Heath 2x Verdant Catacombs 1x Marsh Flats 2x Horizon Canopy 2x Gavony Township 2x Temple Garden 2x Overgrown Tomb 1x Godless Shrine 1x Stirring Wildwood 1x Shambling Vents 1x Ghost Quarter 1x Westvale Abbey 2x Forest 1x Plains 1x Swamp Sideboard: 3x Thoughtseize 2x Pithing Needle 2x Surgical Extraction 2x Stony Silence 2x Spellskite 1x Engineered Explosives 1x Gaddock Teeg 1x Linvala, Keeper of Silence 1x Painful Truths Overall, I'm still very happy with the deck. It felt great all weekend and was amazing against the metagame. It feels like you can't lose against jund and zoo. Lingering Souls is insane vs the current modern metagame. The weakest card overall probably ended up being the Gideon. It tested well locally but got boarded out a lot at the GP. It's good against grindy control decks but I only saw nahiri control 1 time. Thrun was AMAZING all weekend. Won me several games all by himself, and in games where the board was stalled. Spot removal and aggro strategies seemed to be the most common ideas going around all weekend and this deck eats those strategies alive. Pithing Needle is also the nuts and got boarded in a lot. Highlights: Game 1 vs abzan company, this is where the Pithing Needle on verdant catacombs story from the main thread came from. Pithing Needle along with decays/pulses secured game 3. Played against burning tree/bushwacker zoo 3 times. Crushed all 3 no questions asked. Got into a top deck war game 1 with a nahiri control player in a game where he resolved 3(!) ancestral visions. He had to spend too many cards 2-for-1ing himself for it to matter. Ended the topdeck war by throwing down Thrun off the top that he absolutely couldn't deal with. Game 2 he board in bribery for my thrun- I only know this because he looted an emrakul with nahiri and I surgicaled it. Triple voice of resurgence got there. Played a long intense game against an affinity player where I was at 8 infect for probably 6 turns. Linvala shutting off ravager and overseer ultimately saved me but I got insanely lucky by drawing chump fliers off the top to block with instead of killing Linvala. Took Brad Nelson out of the tournament. He was on jund and I eat jund for breakfast. He also took 21 damage across 2 games from dark confidant. I let the Bob kill him game 1. I honestly feel like variance is what put me at 11-4. My first loss was to an affinity player where we had a 30 minute game 1. Game 2 I got mana screwed because 2 of my 4 lands were colorless and I only have 4 colorless lands in the deck. Never saw a mana dork and died with 2 rhinos in hand. Second loss was to Eli Kassis. Game 1 he had redundant copies of the knight combo in hand. Game 2 he out valued me with a company into an eternal witness. Game was still somewhat close until I drew the first land and he kept drawing gas. Fair loss though. Third loss was to grixis delver. This one was irritating because game 3 was completely winnable but out of my control- I had 3 lands within the first 5 turns and didn't see a 4th land in the next 15 turns. Died with 3 rhinos and a thrun in hand, with him at 5 life. I shuffled my deck about 30 times after that bullshit. 4th loss was in round 15 to blue moon featuring Thing in the Ice. Game 1 I didn't sniff the blood moon and auto-lost to it. Discarded a Scavenging Ooze to hand size and scooped before he saw more so he thought I was abzan company, which worked. Game 2 I won quickly with an aggressive start. Game 3 went almost to time and this one upsets me because I lost by misplaying. I genuinely feel like I played strong, smart magic all weekend until I think of this match and two back to back punts I made that kept me out of top 64. No one to blame but myself and he punished me. Even with my punts I was still in a winning position until it turned out he had 3 Snapcasters in hand. At one point in game 3 I surgicalled lightning bolt so that I could see if his hand was clear for me to go all in on a lingering souls/flashback souls. It was, and he topdecked anger. That plus the punts I made killed me. Nothing worse than losing to yourself. Going back, I might swap the Gideon for a Wilt-Leaf Liege, which also tested well but I dropped it last minute for the Thrun. I boarded Gideon out more than any other card, although it was fine the few times I played it. Could also try Garruk Wildspeaker but I'm not 100% sold on it. Wouldn't change the sideboard. Deck loses terribly to tron but I dodged it all 15 rounds. Feels good against jund, burn, zoo. Feels even or good against nahiri jeskai, infect, affinity and abzan company. Had a great time overall and plan to keep playing the deck. Fingers McLongDong fucked around with this message at 19:15 on May 24, 2016 |
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May 24, 2016 19:11
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This the right place to discuss "budget" jank Legacy decks I am building? Mono-Green control: 2x Acidic Slime 1x Beacon of Creation 1x Biorhythm 3x City of Solitude 2x Dryad Arbor 2x Elvish Mystic 2x Eternal Witness 2x Garruk Wildspeaker 2x Ghost Quarter 1x Green Sun's Zenith 2x Kodama's Reach 2x Plow Under 4x Root Maze 1x Rude Awakening 2x Sakura-Tribe Elder 1x Smokestack 1x Sylvan Library 2x Tangle Wire 3x Thermokarst 2x Trinisphere 2x Umbilicus 2x Tinder Wall 1x Deranged Hermit 17x Forest SB: 3x Hidden Herd 3x Bind whole lot of other options I haven't tried yet: Avoid Fate Dosan some spirit guides would probably go main and move soemthing else here. Any thoughts on odd ball greenies that don't see a ton of play that might be fun/interesting in a non-pure LD stacks shell?
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May 24, 2016 21:52
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Yo wheres the choke?
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May 24, 2016 21:57
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Don't own any yet, it is one of my options I am eye-balling. This is built out of stuff I had on hand (minus the cities of solitude which I need to pick up)
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May 24, 2016 22:08
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Mr.Booger posted:The Patrick Sullivan Special The closest thing I can think of to what you are doing that actually worked was the Sylvan Plug deck that international treasure and cool dude Lejay came up with during the reign of Treasure Cruise and then later Dig Through Time. You can read about it here
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May 25, 2016 01:34
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