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The other, simpler possibility is that Cowl didn't want to secure the Lied for himself as much as he wanted to keep it out of the hands of his rivals. Even if he already had it (or didn't need it), locking down the other copies in Chicago could have delayed the other Kemmlerites (and Harry) enough so they couldn't stop him.
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May 26, 2014 15:41
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I'm still digesting Skin Game (and will probably reread it in a couple days) but my initial impression is that it's better than Cold Days, probably not quite as good as the best of the series (but in the upper tier), and I was left completely (well, mostly) satisfied by it. Some disorganized thoughts: *Butters may not (yet) be a massive physical threat, but he was already a mortal who has basically reverse-engineered magic and has been fighting monsters with that knowledge and inventiveness (and Bob) for years now. I think he's probably going to be a phenomenal Knight. I think he's gonna be Magic Iron Man. *I'm still not sure what it all means, but I cannot shake the idea that getting Deirdre into the Underworld wasn't just a means to get Nicodemus into the Vault, but may have been the entire point of the exercise. Nicodemus was certainly treating it as more than just a sacrifice (and as someone said earlier, if he just needed someone to die to get past the Gate of Blood, he had plenty of other options). More than that, though, Hades' story about Persephone, how a compromise involving her ended up being dissatisfying to everyone, and how Hecate (an aspect, we now know, of the Faerie Queens) essentially ran a con to keep everyone else away while they were getting married felt a lot more significant than the 'lol mothers-in-law' joke it was presented as being. While Nicodemus clearly suffered a major defeat in the end, I'm wondering if it's quite as major as everyone is assuming. *The artifacts are weapons, specifically weapons to be used in the fight against Outsiders, which is a fight that we can reasonably assume that Nicodemus is very interested in winning. Maybe what Nicodemus was after in the Grail and whatever else he was after (almost certainly that dagger, yeah) had, for once, nothing to do with loving over the world. Then again, I have a feeling that the various forces who oppose the Outsiders being at odds with each other (Mab, Harry, Nicodemus being the main players there) is going to end up as a significant plot point before the end anyway. *I think we're seeing Murphy's role change, as we have over the past few books, but I do not for a second believe that she's going to be 'sidelined' or 'relegated to the Supportive Girlfriend role' or whatever. Everything that happened felt very consistent with her character as it has been developed; she's always been someone who (much like Harry) didn't like compromising her principles, but (much like Harry) would do it to protect people and (much like Harry) is willing and able to pay a personal price for that privilege. Yes, she got outmaneuvered (much like Harry) by one of the most dangerous and evil beings in Creation, but she also very nearly fought him to a standstill (which, again, is as much as Harry has ever accomplished). Far from being sidelined, I think we're going to see Murphy take on more of a leadership role in things from here on out. She's already in that role, effectively; she's been running the Justice League of Chicago while Harry was busy being dead/in self-imposed exile. She doesn't need to be a physical threat to be a tactical one; maybe her role isn't to be a Knight but to be a General. If nothing else, she's clearly one of Jim Butcher's favorite characters (she is also one of mine, and I'm aware that's an unpopular view around these parts) so there's no way in hell her story's done yet, and no way she's going to be shuffled off into obscurity. *It makes sense to me that the Winter Knight's mantle wouldn't be an inexhaustible font of power (though I think it's more than just a psychological trick to get the Knight to ignore his physical limits). The entire point of the Winter and Summer Knights is that they're mortal, remember; they're the only agents of the Queens who can function in the mortal world comparatively free of constraint. So there's got to be some limit to the amount of Winter or Summer power they can take on before they start being bound by the limitations of that power, and thus effectively useless as Knights. *I cannot help but wonder if Goodman Grey actually is Kincaid, rather than just being a very similar character. I doubt it, but I could see it, too. *On the whole, I liked the book, I loved the reveal of who the Parasite actually is (and would have loved to see much, much more of her), and am really happy we've had some forward movement on a number of plots. I agree, Hannah Ascher, Rape Avenger, was lazy in a particularly unfortunate way (though it's the sort of narrative shorthand that Butcher loves, so probably the result of carelessness rather than something darker) and I agree that it would be nice to have a woman show up sometime that Harry didn't spend like 90 percent of the book lusting after, but at least there were no awkward out-of-place conversations about the politics of gay marriage this time around. I loved seeing Anna Valmont show up again, and I loved that her response to the most traumatic experience of her life was 'learn everything she can about the supernatural so she's never put in that position again'. I wish we'd gotten more about Nemesis. *And one last unspoiley thought: I want the next book right now.
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May 28, 2014 11:45
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:The problem with Murphy is Butcher has kinda written himself into a corner with her. The more powerful everything gets the less able Murphy is to keep up. Her character arc kinda peaked in the post-Changes short story and there aren't many places for her to go from here; giving her a Sword was too obvious and almost anything else would involve her going evil given the strictures of Butcher's world. . This is one reason why I think we're going to see her take on more of a leadership role in days to come. Particularly in a book where, the more I think of it, the central theme was that of people either not being what they seem or becoming something new, the idea that Murphy would become (or continue to be) formidable in a way that has nothing to do with physical power makes perfect sense to me. Though I kind of like the Valkyrie idea, too.
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May 28, 2014 13:59
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Wade Wilson posted:Whoever keeps talking about Murphy possibly taking up Lasciel's coin. Did you not read the book? Or if, for example, someone breaks into the Underworld to steal the coins back. Which Hades has made perfectly clear that he's content to allow to happen if someone's capable of getting into his Vault in the first place.
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May 28, 2014 16:19
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Wade Wilson posted:Yeah, but who is going to take that on? Marcone is very likely going to rework the Vault so it will no longer be a good Way point to that spot, at the very least, since it was intentionally set up that way to lure Nicodemus there. Nicodemus just had his poo poo royally kicked in per the exposition in the Mab/Marcone/Dresden/Molly meeting and lost a hell of a lot of influence in the Community. Nobody will work with him to pull what is essentially the same heist again. One possibility immediately springs to mind. It wouldn't be the first time that Nemesis/The Black Council, has led a concerted attack on a hardened position in the Nevernever. Getting more of the Fallen under their thumb might be worth it to them, to say nothing of securing whatever else down there might be used against them..
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May 28, 2014 17:20
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Lyon posted:In regards to the whisper from a fallen I thought lasciel claimed credit for it directly in their showdown? Maybe I misread that part. She did, yeah, though there's wiggle-room in how she said it. Though I've got to admit, it fits with what we found out about how Anduriel works. Also seven-year-old me likes the idea of Anduriel and Uriel playing tug-of-war with Harry's soul. (Seven-year-old me likes stupid wordplay.) I actually think Lasciel fits better, though, as her old connection with Harry makes sense as a means by which she could influence him in spite of The Rules.
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May 29, 2014 03:05
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quote:Dresden's mom Luccio talks a fair bit about Harry's mother in either Small Favor or Turn Coat, as well, specifically that she thought the White Council were too detached from the world and were a bunch of horrible hypocrites. But yeah, there's definitely more to find out. We also know almost nothing about Malcolm Dresden other than "stage magician" and "good people" and "probably murdered". (My gut tells me that his spirit is working for Uriel these days, but that's just speculation.) quote:Cowl As far as I can tell, what we know for certain about Cowl is the following: He's a very powerful wizard. Pretty much everything else (even his apparent connection to Nemesis/The Black Council, though we can probably take that as given) is speculation. We can probably assume that he's someone that Harry (and we) would recognize if we saw him without his, er, cowl, though him being altered by the Fomor also makes for a good pretext for that. And I think a connection to the Fomor is a reasonable guess, but it's still just a guess. (I personally think, as I've said before, that he's Justin, resurrected/reanimated by the Fomor, but I would in no way assert that as fact.) quote:Mavra Harry seemed pretty sure when he gave Mavra the Word of Kemmler that it wasn't something she could use. It would not be the first time he was wrong about something like that, though. quote:Ferrovax I'm not sure that "a Knight of the Cross can kill a dragon" necessarily means that much; when they're on mission, the Knights are arguably the most powerful mortals on the planet, and the equalizing power of the Swords means it kind of doesn't matter how powerful the enemy they're fighting is. Even so, if not Ferrovax, I have absolutely no doubt we'll see someone/something in that weight class on the enemy team, and Harry will at one point be expected to fight it without his magic, all his various limbs broken, and with someone shouting in his ear every three seconds to distract him, because that's just the sort of thing that happens in this series.
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May 29, 2014 16:22
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isk posted:After reading the past few pages, I'm having second thoughts. I enjoyed it, for sure, but there's issues, especially about Hannah. Part of me thinks that it's because Harry is a pigheaded oaf, and the story's from his perspective. Or it's just lovely, reductive characterization. Even if the former is true, I don't think that makes it right. I have a lot of thoughts about Hannah, but the short version is that I can see pretty solid reasons for every choice made about her characterization, but the end result was still, in spite of those solid reasons, unfortunate. Not unforgivable, just, you know, could have been better. On the other hand, she represents the first time a woman has actually voiced an objection to all the leering in the series that I can think of. I'm honestly a little more dismayed, after some thought, that Lasciel, who was built up as a subtle temptress and who (through Lash) presented herself as an eminently sensible being, was presented here as RAR I WILL SMASH YOU BECAUSE YOU REJECTED ME.
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May 30, 2014 03:12
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Captain Capacitor posted:Holy poo poo the Dresden Files have been optioned again. An option on its own doesn't mean much (except that Jim Butcher gets to buy nice things) but it certainly isn't a bad sign.
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May 31, 2014 04:55
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Bobulus posted:If that's true, then maybe part of Nic's plan requires him to be away from his coin for a while. That one Denarian-user from Dead Beat makes it seem like age starts catching up with them after they've been without their coin for a while, and Nic's been living so long that there's basically no way he'd survive without his Denarian... unless he had something that popular culture suggests can give life-eternal... I was thinking about this a little earlier. Way back in Death Masks, the Denarians were using the Shroud of Turin (or possibly the replica thereof), which traditionally has healing properties, to create a horrible death plague. What if a similar reversal is what Nicodemus has in mind for the Grail? Maybe he plans on using it to make immortal beings (or even Outsiders) vulnerable.
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Jun 1, 2014 19:59
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Tunicate posted:Also, Harry could walk while being pierced by those steel manacles Not just walk, he did a pretty credible job of fighting Tessa in Marcone's vault without the benefit of either the mantle or his magic.
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Jun 2, 2014 17:22
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I'm not so sure that Nicodemus is out of the picture, though he's certainly had a major setback. Yes, he lost a lot of face (and possibly leadership of the Denarians, though I guess time will tell) but he's still very powerful and dangerous on his own, and I can't imagine he'd have a hard time putting together a gently caress You Harry Dresden team should he so desire. Arguably, he's no longer got anything to lose, and that makes him more dangerous, not less. Also, it's becoming increasingly clear that many of the various people and factions that are in the best position to oppose the Outsiders hate each other, and there's no way that's not going to be a major plot point sooner or later. (Hell, I wonder if that's not going to be what Peace Talks ends up being about.) On another, completely random note, I forgot about one thing I actually liked about Hannah's storyline. I think she represents the first time that Harry has ever tried to talk a Denarian into giving up her coin; he's always taken the hard line that they're monsters who willingly chose their fate and deserve what's coming to them (and got into it rather vigorously about that with Michael in Small Favor). Sure, there are a lot of reasons (some less noble than others) why he might decide that she deserves a second chance where he wouldn't have offered it to, say, Ursiel, but it's still a pretty big step forward for him.
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Jun 3, 2014 03:36
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If there's not a Lea/Ramirez Buddy Also: Cold Days posted:"I...have a form of congenital dementia," [Sarissa] said. "I watched what it did to my older sister and..." She shuddered. "Doctors can't help me. Mab can." So basically everyone's right. Both Sarissa and (presumably) Maeve had this 'dementia', which, in context, is probably a covert reference to their changeling nature.
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Jun 14, 2014 04:54
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I think it's just that Harry's afraid that Molly is already a whole lot less human than she seems. Of course it'll probably turn out that the svartalves can make magic-proof phones or something.
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Jun 14, 2014 15:58
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I hope the next twenty books are self-contained episodic Harry Fights Supernatural Crime stories with nary a mention of Nemesis or whatever. Actually, no, I don't hope that, but I do like it when the books function largely on their own merits and the overarching storyline is kept predominantly in the background to be wheeled out for special occasions, and minor plot points hang around for a couple of books, maybe. The way the series has generally been up to this point. I do legitimately hope that the Denarians next show up in, like, book 19 or something, just so that a bunch of people go mad trying to make it fit the THEY SHOW UP EVERY FIVE BOOKS WITHOUT FAIL rule.
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Jul 19, 2014 03:47
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On one hand, they could have been killed unceremoniously offscreen, or we could have them come back with a serious grudge against Harry at a suitably dramatic moment. Of course they're alive.
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Jul 30, 2014 11:42
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Benny the Snake posted:I'm aware, but I'm also interested in reading Mean Streets. Is it a good collection? Mean Streets introduced me to Kat Richardson's Greywalker series, which I love but about which opinions vary. Her story and Butcher's are quite good. The other two are, at best, acquired tastes; I hated the Simon Green story and liked Tom Sniegoski's, but I'm not sure I'd recommend either in an objective sense. Pick this up used or hit the library, yeah.
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Aug 12, 2014 12:29
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I think there's already enough Mythic Significance to Harry's birth without having his father be some as-yet-unrevealed horror. Like, I think it would probably work, and it's well in keeping with the tone of the series, but I don't think we need it. Although it'd certainly explain Kincaid's offhand comment that he's just as human as Harry is. ('Kincaid was lying through his teeth' would explain that too.) I'm convinced that Malcolm Dresden's spirit is working for Uriel these days, but yeah, I'm kind of happy with the "he was just a decent person who came into Margaret's life at just the right time". (Though I never could quite shake the idea that there's a specific group of people in the books who make a thing of Being Decent People With A Talent For Showing Up At Just The Right Time, and I've occasionally wondered if maybe Malcolm didn't have a sword at one point. Biggest problem with that is there's no obvious reason Harry wouldn't know, given his closeness with the current Knights of the Cross.)
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Sep 25, 2014 03:19
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I can honestly see someone who went in expecting Philip Marlowe But With Magic being thrown by getting what turns out to be Spider-Man But With Magic, though it's not really a complaint I have.
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Sep 27, 2014 00:33
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While Harry certainly drew the conclusion that it meant that Molly wasn't especially human any more, there are other explanations possible. Harry has been able (with limited success) to shield technology from his magic before, and Molly has always been a lot better at that sort of fine control than Harry. Or maybe she got the svartalves to knock together a magic-proof phone for her. Dunno if that's possible but if anyone could do it, they could. Just saying it wouldn't be the first time this series has used this sort of misdirection.
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Nov 5, 2014 13:46
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immoral_ posted:I'm not so sure about that, historically where Dresden is involved, the Fairy Princess' haven't exactly had the best job security. Dresden isn't exactly a good risk for a life insurance policy himself, for that matter.
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Nov 7, 2014 12:42
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What Murphy's actually got, that none of Harry's other allies in the series with the possible exception of Marcone (and calling him an ally stretches the term a bit) has, is the ability to organize and lead people. Between her time in charge of SI and the year or so she spent successfully organizing Chicago's defense against the Fomor while keeping both Marcone's organization and the White Court from just gobbling her up, I think it's clear that this is where her strength lies. I don't think she's going to end up as another foot soldier or superpowered badass. I think she's going to end up as a general. And I think that's a story I'd much rather read than Humans Are Useless Without Magic Superpowers, which has never really been a line this series has taken.
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Nov 20, 2014 04:12
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MildShow posted:And really, I don't think Michael's life has been that easy. Wife and unborn son are nearly murdered by an insane ghost, oldest child gets kidnapped by fairies and eventually becomes a fairy herself, another of his kids is kidnapped by a former priest, wrapped in detcord, and is nearly blown up just because Harry has two Swords. There's also the whole being riddled with bullets and left crippled thing. Plus whatever he gets up to in his duties as a Knight - it's implied that it's a bit more involved than an occasional call to action. We also know literally nothing about Michael's past before he became a Knight. Like it's probably reasonable to assume that he didn't have anything like Harry's orphan/supervillain uncle combo, but it's not like superheroes traditionally come from anything but tragedy. (The Dresden Files is totally a superhero series so there.)
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Dec 10, 2014 02:10
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Also, is there anything, aside from it being a convenient shorthand, that officially calls it the Rivers of London series as opposed to Some Books About Magic Police?
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Jan 7, 2015 01:38
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RosaParksOfDip posted:Yeah but that wasn't instigated by Harry. it was Titania essentially going "Let's talk about homosexuals for a moment here. For no reason". Even if it was a really well written conversation(which it wasn't), it was out of place. I can just about see the thought process that was behind the scene. Titania was trying to make a point about emotional reactions overriding logic, to explain why she was about thirty seconds away from going gently caress YOU HARRY DRESDEN DIE DIE DIE because of Harry's involvement in her daughter's death, even though he was making complete sense and it was in her best interests to help him, and even though Aurora had to be stopped for the sake of the world. But yeah, the end result was pretty bad.
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Jan 12, 2015 02:05
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Yeah, everything I've read of De Lint's has been fantastic, but don't go in expecting pulp detective novels with magic thrown in.
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Jan 24, 2015 18:11
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jivjov posted:Has the "case file" "framing device" ever been implied to be an in-universe thing? I mean, yeah there's that bit with the journals, but there's no prologue or anything setting up that Harry is writing this all down. Not that I'm aware of, no. I have a feeling that's going to be part of the ending scene in the series. As for the other stuff, I think it's pretty clear that Harry's issues are not Jim Butcher's issues (and writing Harry as a sexist in no way suggests that Butcher is a sexist) but also that Butcher is not without some baggage of his own. I would not begrudge anyone being bothered by it all.
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Jan 30, 2015 03:00
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OptimusWang posted:Picked up The Rook based on recommendations from this thread, but 5 chapters in it's still damned slow. Does it pick up soon or does it keep slogging at this pace? Yeah, I just started reading it myself, and I feel like I'm in infodump hell right now. I like the premise enough to keep reading, though.
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Feb 2, 2015 05:12
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Skippy McPants posted:Just finished the second Rivers of London book and I've got to ask, is the protagonist always going to be this dim? I mean, I can buy that characters have blind spots, but falling into a torrid affair with a person of interest in a murder investigation and not twigging to something being seriously off about the whole thing until the bodies are literally piling up in front of him was kinda of a stretch. In fairness, she didn't really realize she was the murderer either. There's also the possibility she was (unconsciously) messing with his head, though I don't recall for certain any more. Peter's not an idiot, but he is prone to distraction. (He arguably has ADHD or something similar.) Personally I think it's brilliant, because in most books of this stripe, him being shoved into Paperwork Division at the start of Rivers of London would have been a grave injustice because he is actually the Chosen Most Amazing Hero or whatever, whereas here it actually makes a lot of sense. He's capable of flashes of absolute brilliance, but he has a hard time staying on task, which makes it more difficult for him to be a good cop or a good magician, and it's probably the reason he did so poorly in school. He does get better with time and experience, but it never really goes away, nor should it.
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Feb 28, 2015 15:44
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I think Peter's a fantastic protagonist specifically because of his flaws. They make him more interesting, not less. I would totally read a series about Lesley (not 'Leslie' goddammit American publishers) too, mind.
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Mar 1, 2015 22:28
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Marketing.
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Mar 5, 2015 23:50
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DAAS Kapitalist posted:good people. Doesn't keep it from being a deliberate (or unconscious) reference, but it's not like Jim Butcher invented the phrase.
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Mar 7, 2015 05:42
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...Skin Game was pretty good, yeah.
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Apr 8, 2015 01:41
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My only real question is why on Earth this bizarre attempt to rig the Hugo awards to put one over on them wimmins is called "Sad Puppies". Like, what are the origins of that name in particular? I just about understand why Gamergate is called that (though I mostly feel sorry for online games retailer Gamersgate), but I can't see the connection here at all. There is a lot of good (or at least entertaining) writing out there. More than anyone could ever read in a lifetime. Declining to read something, even if it's well-written, because the author for whatever reason makes you break out in hives, is a completely reasonable position, and not just for six-year-olds. I don't owe it to people whose politics I despise to consume their work, even if it's good work. I probably do owe them the courtesy of not insisting that their work is terrible without something to back that up, but that's all. And, you know, if you're not bothered by a talented writer's odious politics or personality, good for you. We all draw our lines in different places, and that's fine too.
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May 18, 2015 15:21
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Either a dedicated thread or a "don't talk about this at all" mandate are probably the only two workable solutions to keep it from running rampant across the forums like some literature-specific all-consuming fire. I can totally see why it would be brought up here (as Butcher is one of the Hugo nominees) but I also totally get it being a disruption for this thread. Megazver posted:If any of you haven't read The Golem and the Jinni, you should. It's not really UF as in wizards solving wizard crimes, but it's a fantastical story in the city. It's set in the early 1900s New York and it's about a golem lady who ends up without a master minutes after she is awakened and a jinn who is released from a lamp a thousand years after he's been put into it and how they learn to live among humans. It felt to me like what would happen if J.K. Rowling (I'm thinking Galbraith rather than Potter here) tried to write a Neil Gaiman novel. Definitely going to check this out. I like the Fantasy Detective Stories subset of urban fantasy just fine, but I'm definitely always on the lookout for more quality stuff from the Neil Gaiman/Charles De Lint side of the genre as well. In that specific vein, Ysabel by Guy Gavriel Kay is also fantastic. (I love all of his stuff, really, but Ysabel has the distinction of being one of his few works to be set in a contemporary location rather than being historical fiction with the serial numbers filed off.)
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May 18, 2015 18:39
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Now try being a Vernor Vinge fan.
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May 21, 2015 19:23
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If you watch it as an adaptation of the books, you'll be tremendously disappointed. If you watch it as its own thing, you might not be. I watched about five episodes, enjoyed those five episodes, and never really felt the need to watch more.
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May 24, 2015 21:28
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Well, I'm sure that growing up in a poor biracial family with a heroin addict father didn't do Peter Grant any favors, but he doesn't really strike me as supremely hosed-up either. He's easily distracted, but he's not an idiot, he's not incompetent, he's really a more-or-less average guy in a distinctly un-average situation. And he's pretty good with people, which is more than you can say about Harry Dresden.
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May 26, 2015 00:54
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Murphy brings something to the table that I don't think any of Harry's other allies (with the exception of Marcone, and calling him an ally is at best a stretch) have. Leadership ability, specifically the ability to coordinate against both mortal and supernatural threats. She ran SI for years, and ran it effectively, and she organized Chicago's defense against the Fomor and others while Harry was away. She's a tactical thinker, and she knows how to work with people, both qualities in which Harry lags behind. She's going to be a general.
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May 27, 2015 18:48
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Ghost Story in particular was basically "Harry Dresden Has Character Development: The Novel"
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May 29, 2015 03:52
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