ImpAtom posted:

The protagonist in Rivers of London is seriously the worst part of the books. He's just so ineffectual, so dumb (sometimes intentionally, at least according to the author), and surrounded by people who are way more effective and interesting than he is.

p0zer posted:

I just got done reading Bill the Vampire. It is far from good, but it is a lot of fun.

I figure I would just suggest it in here because this thread has turned into the unofficial Urban Fantasy Discussion House.

ConfusedUs posted:

Cold Days is really, really good. It's also an incredibly important book.

Changes was the first book in a three-part trilogy that changed the nature of the series. Changes cut Harry's ties to his previous life as a professional wizard. All the physical things that made Harry who he was were gone. Harry's been held back, in many ways, by those things. His lovely apartment. His crappy car. His dusty office. His magical crutches. Bob. Harry relied on these things, depended on them, and built his life around them.

Ghost Story forced him to look inward. Harry had to own up to who he was, look at the results of his actions, and move on. Ghost Story is a radical shift in tone from the previous 12 books; the conflict is mostly internal. The Corpsetaker plot is secondary in importance to the real story: Harry isn't who he used to be.

At this point, Harry has nothing to fall back on. His life, as it was before, was over. All his stuff is gone. All his friends think he is dead. Harry struggles back to life to find that he is no longer the man he used to be.

In Cold Days, we find Harry struggling with his new identity, or lack thereof. He's a new creature. He doesn't want to be the cold-hearted killer that Mab intends to make of him, but he's not the self-appointed magical sheriff of Chicago either. In the midst of this identity crisis, he uncovers Nemesis.

This gives Harry a purpose, one that he can use to re-shape himself.

This new Harry thinks bigger than Chicago. He must. Harry is now the Warden of Demonreach. He's the bane of outsiders. He's Nemesis's nemesis. This new Harry is built upon the ruins of the old. He's been rebuilt. Better. Stronger. Faster.

Thew new Harry has to touch base with his old network. It wouldn't make sense to dump the existing characters. Murphy, Thomas, Michael, Butters, and Molly are all pillars of the series. Harry doesn't forget them, but he does re-forge those relationships over the course of the book (and a bit into Skin Game). Molly is no longer his apprentice. Murphy is no longer the unrequited love. Butters is no longer a scared weakling. They've grown and changed every bit as much as Harry. Same faces, new stories.

Cold Days is the most important book in the series since Grave Peril. It has set a new foundation for the meta-narrative. The old stories are, with a few exceptions, done. It's a whole new ball game.

I encourage you to look beyond the Nemesis plot. That aspect of the new Dresden in its infancy. We've seen naught by signs and portents. The real meat and potatoes is how Harry forges a new life amidst the ruins of the old.

Rumda posted:

Sounds like its just not for you anymore.

Murgos posted:

Oh, hey, look! Someone on the internet expresses their opinion as fact when people don't agree with them.

Next, maybe you'll post in all caps? Maybe then someone might agree with you.

Geisladisk posted:

The problem is that what draws people to the Dresden Files, is Harry Dresden: A relatively minor wizard who lives in a lovely apartment in Chicago, has a broken hockey stick for a staff, drives a multicoloured, wheezing VW Beetle, is so completely irreverent and cocky that he put himself in the goddamn yellow pages under "Wizard", and does his best to kick his local chapter of Team Evil in the teeth when he can, despite having almost zero resources other than cleverness at his disposal. I loving love that character.

That character is, as you noted, dead, and has been replaced by superpowered winter-knight superhero mega-wizard who's list of responsibilities includes defending a cosmic doomsday device capable of destroying reality, being The Chosen One in a fight for reality itself, and regularly chatting up literal gods and demigods all the time.

The problem is that I just don't find the second one as interesting, and I don't think the series can survive the shift, because this is exactly the kind of character development that killed Codex Alera.

Rumda posted:

You are in the minority there. The series will survive losing you as a reader

Rhymenoserous posted:

This doesn't even make sense. Of course they are going to grow in power. If you do any task, even a mundane one for 10+ years you are going to grow in ability/skill in completing that task.

Calling it lazy writing just because an author doesn't lock his character in some goofy homeostasis for 20+ books just seems silly.

If someone wrote a book about one mans journey to go from short order cook to master chef over the course of his lifetime would him growing in ability also be "Lazy Writing?"

NinjaDebugger posted:

He pretty much gets this out of the way in the first book. Either 1) The book is locked, or 2) The book isn't widely read enough, so it doesn't have enough power for you to pull X busted-rear end thing out.

newts posted:

Apologies if this has been posted already, but this is a long thread...

Anyone looking for more urban fantasy/detective books might want to check out Dead Things by Stephen Blackmore: http://www.amazon.com/Dead-Things-Stephen-Blackmoore-ebook/dp/B00AVA4NPM/ref=la_B004XW62A8_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1413164393&sr=1-2. It's a pretty good read. I'd rate it above the Alex Verus books, maybe below the Felix Castor series in terms of quality. There's a sequel too.

sharknado slashfic posted:

I'll be in my late forties

autism chariot posted:

I really liked them, but I wouldn't bother with it once you've finished the Midnight Mayor stuff. I found her writing style took a little getting used to as well, especially in the first book.

just_a_guy posted:

Skeleton mages is definitely my thing

I went with Midnight Mayor this week since the blurb appealed to me the most I should be finished pretty quick since I'm stuck home with a sick child and a weather that Noah himself would be impressed by.
(try reading with Dora the Explorer in the background. Makes for an interesting experience)

So far I am enjoying the Urban take on magic. Subway gates becoming powerful wards is pretty clever and makes for a certain amount of sense.
I am just a bit unsure about the magic system. I generally like the ones with clearly defined boundaries and that don't break the laws of physics too much or in the least not suspension-of-disbelief breaking.

Lyon posted:

Yeah I thought this was part of the charm of the books. Sorcerers seem to use magic based on their understanding/belief of the world. It seemed like some of the other magic users had more defined rules but they aren't the main character so we don't get to see them. It felt way less D&D and more organic.

OneTwentySix posted:

I really liked Unbound, too. There were some nice "oh, poo poo" moments, and that letter from his brother was something I really wanted to see Isaac's reaction to. It'll be interesting to see all the fallout from Gutenberg death and the unlocking of a ton of books, plus the reveal that magic is real. Honestly, I am SO tired of every urban fantasy going, "yep, we gotta hide this from everyone for reasons!" It's just refreshing to see this series go this route.

I started his Goblin Quest series last night, just to see where Smudge came from, and it's okay - finished book one today. Not great, but not bad, either.

ConfusedUs posted:

Finished Foxglove Summer. This was a very good book! The metaplot didn't move forward much, but it was a very good look into how Peter has grown as both a magician and as a copper.

Khizan posted:

Because it's more interesting when the book is about a fuckup, imo. Peter is a lovely street cop who's on the verge of an exciting career in desk work when he lucks into a position as a sorcerer's apprentice that just happens to also let him be a 'real' cop. That is, imo, much more interesting than a story about an actual good cop falling into the same thing.

Wade Wilson posted:

I, for one, am wondering about the mythical fallout to come from Beverly essentially invading a faerie plane with a with the equivalent of a nuclear bomb in the form of solid iron locomotive to rescue Peter.

Also, I've caught up on Sandman Slim and Felix Castor. Have already read Alex Verus. What else is there in this sub-genre to read that is worth reading?

Tornhelm posted:

Basically riffing of the commercials with sad puppies in them.

http://monsterhunternation.com/2013/01/16/how-to-get-correia-nominated-for-a-hugo-part-2-a-very-special-message/


Which is a large part of what they were asking for. The Sad Puppies campaign has been pretty transparent in it's message of having people read the works and then deciding on whether they thought they were worth voting for.

Instead, there's a lot of guilt by association because Larry's slate on #2 had one of Vox's works he liked (which wasn't that bad) and Brad had a couple of works that were published by Castalia (Vox's publishing house) on it. That combined with Vox deciding to call his slate "Rabid Puppies" (and paying the artist who did the Sad Puppies logo to make a similar one for him) culminated in the Sad Puppies campaign being painted with the same brush.

asiperi posted:

Might have missed this in Hugos chat, but is anyone here a fan of the Alex Verus series by Benedict Jacka? Someone recommended it to me and I just finished the first book, Fated. It was very quick reading, an interesting magic world, and I liked it a lot. The protagonist is a mage who can predict the future and runs a magic store, but not quite as flamboyant or goony as Harry Dresden. I got very Dresden vibes from it, including a little blurb from Jim Butcher on the cover, and a direct shoutout in the first chapter.

computer parts posted:

Titled "Peace Talks", apparently it's about the supernatural community discussing the fallout of the death of the Red Court ( http://www.reddit.com/r/dresdenfiles/comments/27fyki/peace_talks_butcher_confirms_the_plot/ ), date is TBA right now but I think 2016 is possible.

It was partially delayed because of the new series that he's writing but also because it's been 15 books.

ImpAtom posted:

Okay.

The thing that writers thrive on energy and interest. Doing the same thing over and over and over becomes tiresome and repetitive. Writing the same characters, in the same world, with the same plot leads to a loss of interest even for a world they're devoted to. Many writers find that their energy levels (and thus productivity) increase when they diversify and work on what interests them.

What you are asking is not just irrational, it's straight-up stupid, because it leads to a writer who is disinterested and putting out a worksman product because you want them to, instead of one who feels charged and invested in his work. Butcher flat-out said that working on Codex A helped him get back into writing Dresden too. I presume his steampunk novel is the same.

Rose Spirit posted:

Oh, you say you like an author? Then you're contractually obligated to purchase every single thing they ever write, forever.

ImpAtom posted:

Well, I've literally been published so clearly my opinion is now utterly unarguable and you should listen to me. vv

However, sarcasm aside, that isn't actually a controversial opinion. Again, this is literally something Jim Butcher said.

ImpAtom posted:

There are very few prolific long-term writers who have only written for a single series so unless your favorites are relatively young authors with few books under their belts I'm not sure who you're talking about.

ImpAtom posted:

JK Rowling wrote non-Potter books you know.

ImpAtom posted:

You can't really go "She wrote one series except for when she did other things afterwards." Also JK Rowling has been very vocal in interviews about how she wanted to diversify and work on new things. She even said she was working on other novels while writing Harry Potter. She is in fact one of the authors who has openly talked about how writing other things helped refresh her energy for her main product and how she was glad when it was over because she could do other things without Harry "taking over."

ImpAtom posted:

Uh. Robert Crais writes television shows and films in-between novels.


So you want Butcher to write shittier books he isn't invested in.

Wade Wilson posted:

It would probably get better reception if the reason for the steampunk thing was based on a bet like Alera was.

ImpAtom posted:

Yes, and I would be right.

There is no time or place where any creator does better making something they're obligated to instead of something they want to. Writers are not machines you put money into and a story comes out.

ImpAtom posted:

Yes? You're demanding a 'fix.' You're saying you want him to write faster instead of writing what he wants. I'm not quoting you out of context here, you're demanding he write books faster because you want them faster. You care more about the author getting you a book fast than anything else.

Butcher has written more or less one novel a year and a number of Dresden-themed short stories in the mean time. The longest break he had was between Cold Days and Skin Game. Even when he was literally writing another book series he still got a Dresden book out regularly. So you whining about him writing something keeps you from your fix is silly as hell.

ImpAtom posted:

When you tell someone to write something now and not do what they want, you are, uh, demanding. Like literally. That is called a demand.

I'm not trying to be a dick here but maybe you don't realize how you're writing?

ImpAtom posted:

When you tell someone to write something now and not do what they want, you are, uh, demanding. Like literally. That is called a demand.

I'm not trying to be a dick here but maybe you don't realize how you're writing?

You admit you're being irrational. You admit that you need your fix. You are saying he should do what you want and not what he wants. I mean none of this is taken out of context, it is literal quotes from you.

ImpAtom posted:

So if you wouldn't think of trying to pressure a writer then what exactly is the point you're trying to make? Your frustration is irrational and you admitted it. I guess I'm just confused as to what your point is.

torgeaux posted:

Is it just me or do other people resent an author for writing something else instead of the good stuff? I hate and find stupid the steam punk genre, so I really hate the waste of time here. I love Christopher Moore (a name not mentioned much in urban fantasy, but he has some really good ones), but his historical stuff does nothing for me,and I hate every book that isn't his " normal" stuff. I know it's irrational, but still.

Mortanis posted:

I'm sure this has been posted before.

Neil Gaiman: George R R Martin Jim Butcher is not your bitch

http://journal.neilgaiman.com/2009/05/entitlement-issues.html

Mortanis posted:

Kellanved posted:

For me at least Skin Game is an utterly forgettable book. Had to read this thread to remember most of the plot. I just want to see some real character growth on Dresden, because in my mind he hasn't changed that much throughout the series.

On other urban fantasy series: I've recently read the Matthew Swift books. While they can be confusing at times, the world-building is memorable.

mistaya posted:

So I got to meet Paul Cornell (London Falling series) at Phoenix comicon (I didn't even know he would be there and was completely surprised to see him) and after the panels I got to talk to him a bit about books and things, (we joked about Aaronovitch, who he's friends with) he's really nice and a little shy and you would never be able to tell he writes what is definitely the closest UF series to pure horror that I've read. I'm going to read his books in his voice in my head from now on.

But I want to bring the thread's attention to someone I haven't seen mentioned, M.L. Brennan- because she was the most bubbly excited person on the author panels and her Generation V novels are a really fun read (Vampires but as if they were biological predators instead of transformed humans, so they would naturally have longer lifespans than their prey etc, but they aren't immortal.) The protagonist is a very young vampire who is trying to put off growing out of his humanity as long as possible and the supporting characters are funny and memorable. I really love reluctant monsters as characters, and Fortitude is about as reluctant as it gets but it's not primarily about the physical stuff, (there is some urge-denial but it's more about his lifestyle than heat of the moment NEEDS.) The main worry he has is about the mental stuff, where he doesn't want to stop caring about people and turn cold and indifferent to suffering like his older family members.

Brennan was so much fun in person that I actually picked up her book based on her spoken description without even reading the back cover and I'm really glad I did.
Generation V.

(Aside, Sandman Slim's author was also there but he was kind of... standoffish? I didn't feel like I could just run up and say hi to him.)

fruit loop posted:

Can anyone please recommend stuff like this? I'd like to gain a better understanding of the current state of the genre as a whole. Preferably garbage that is more widely known (to fans of the genre).

Drifter posted:

Anything that uses the word 'Alpha' to describe the male romantic love interest on the back of the book summary.