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tbp posted:You're not going to see a classless society. The classless society is communism, the state working towards achieving that is socialism hth.
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May 23, 2014 18:04
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Oh hey there's a lot of new posts in this thread since I stopped following it...SedanChair posted:Thieeeef, thief! Curse the Hayek, it stole Mises' Nobel Prize, we hates it forever!!! 
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Oct 1, 2014 05:22
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wateroverfire posted:Do tell, I guess? Your society sounds like it's being organized by a dumb person. AKA a libertarian
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Oct 1, 2014 15:38
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 STOP POINTING OUT THAT MY IDEOLOGY IS BACKED BY THE SOCIO-ECONOMIC EQUIVALENT OF HITLER
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Oct 1, 2014 16:13
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Well they do have fairly obvious solutions its just that no one actually enjoys or wants toll roads except for the people that own toll roads. And idiots.
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Oct 1, 2014 16:27
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wateroverfire posted:Toll roads are not a bad alternative when borrowing is expensive and raising taxes is infeasible. Here in Chile for instance a lot of new roads are built by private companies with their own capital in exchange for the toll concession because roads are expensive and Chile can't borrow gobs of money at 0% real interest rates. I know the last time you tried to actually get improvements going on down there didn't go so well but we promise you, Henry Kissinger is finally out of the white house.
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Oct 1, 2014 16:39
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wateroverfire posted:Yes, it's an impossible definition. By that definition if you refuse to give someone X at the rate they demand, if they need X, you're economically coercing them. It's an absurd burden to put on any individual because if we accept that economically coercing people is a thing we ought not to do it puts you on the wrong side of ethics just for refusing to transact. So close and yet so far.
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Oct 1, 2014 17:18
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wateroverfire posted:There are private roads all over the place, though? It's a thing that is appropriate sometimes. What's so bad about the idea of private roads? I know! Instead of using public funds to build roads everyone can use for free we'll add another burden to people by making them pay more money than they already do to get where they're going because I hate the concept of government!
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Oct 1, 2014 18:41
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Or the government can just realize that not every loan is going to be interest free, borrow the money and make it a publically owned toll road to repay the loan. Toll roads aren't ideal but as you note sometimes are neccessary. The problem is that libertopia demands that all roads be privatized toll roads which no one not already madly in love with Mises wants.
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Oct 1, 2014 19:11
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AlternateAccount posted:Having the government deprive you of property or freedom due to not paying taxes/fees is somehow an acceptable form of the same. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usN3rpfFoGA&t=31s Raskolnikov38 fucked around with this message at 20:08 on Oct 1, 2014 |
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Oct 1, 2014 20:05
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That the essence of libertarianism boils downs to idiots gettin' real mad over the federal withholdings line on their paycheck will never not be hilarious.
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Oct 1, 2014 20:18
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I think that was hoppe.
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Oct 1, 2014 22:34
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War is not caused by fiat money
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Oct 2, 2014 01:27
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QuarkJets posted:I can't get over this claim that people can only wage war due to fiat currency and taxation. The whole idea is just so insane. I wonder if anyone ever bothered to tell pre-history societies that their tribal wars were impossible? Hell we need tell everyone who ever fought before the crimean war.
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Oct 2, 2014 01:47
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jrodefeld posted:My point is that the punishment of so-called "victimless" crimes would be practically unsustainable when individuals would have to voluntarily pay for the incarceration and trial of individuals who just happen to be doing something that you don't personally approve of. I could possibly see some fundamentalist Christian group who really DID want to punish drug users, but the vast majority of people would not want to spend their own money to go after people who are minding their owner business. "Well if Christians start imprisoning sinners under my system thats okay and not hosed up in the extreme because it'll be expensive for them" -jrodefeld Why would anyone want to live under your loving horror show of a society.
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Oct 2, 2014 02:26
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jrodefeld posted:Hans Hoppe...But I reiterate, none have the ability or the desire to force any particular social order on anyone else. Well you know except for forcing communists and liberals to become slaves. Your ideology is morally and intellectually bankrupt. I would describe you as the same but that would imply you ever once had either. Here's a thought experiment, as much as I enjoy calling jrod stupid, how many statist public schools could have been built with the money spent on electricity wasted on this clod by the hundreds of posters over the years?
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Oct 2, 2014 05:50
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Oh my god after years of us arguing with him, he's finally adopted the concept of proportionality.
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Oct 2, 2014 06:28
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Social security alone is twice the total of donations so nope sorry not going to work.
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Oct 2, 2014 06:45
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jrodefeld posted:Almost all major wars in the history of civilization were financed partially or mostly or entirely through inflation. That is just a historical fact. In fact, can you name a single major war of aggression that was fought in the past several centuries that was not financed with paper money? Every single loving war before the beginning of the adoption of fiat money in the 19th century you loving moron.
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Oct 2, 2014 15:02
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Cheekio posted:jrodefeld, are you the sort who changes his mind when confronted with better arguments, or are you the kind of person who would ignore a better argument to maintain his original position? I'd like to join the discussion with you but if I'm willing to change my mind when confronted with good arguments or evidence and you are not, it would be a somewhat disingenuous debate. He's been pulling this same poo poo with the same arguments for years across the internet.
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Oct 2, 2014 15:04
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wateroverfire posted:I said there's no practical way to make sure they're paid equally. Workers with similar profiles (years of service, education, that kind of thing) and job titles can in fact be doing different work with very different productivity, and without that information regulatory enforcement would be a poo poo show for everyone. Pay the same wage for the same work and similar levels of education and then fire the ones that come in under the productiveness bar at review time. Granted this wouldn't work for nepotism hires but what does.
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Oct 2, 2014 19:11
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wateroverfire posted:This wouldn't work for a whole bunch of situations. How people get paid and why is a pretty interesting topic that might be worth its own thread. Could you give an example of some of these situations because I'm having a hard time thinking of one where a HR printed rubric saying x job has y base pay and this increases by amounts w and z per year of education and experience respectively, unless you're talking about raises and bonuses which my idea doesn't address.
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Oct 2, 2014 20:40
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quote:great evils of the 20th century— the Great Depression, totalitarian genocides, Keynesian economics, permanent warfare states... Two of these things are not like the others, two of these things just don't belong
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Oct 2, 2014 21:03
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Okay now that I'm not tablet posting lets tear apart the lovely history.quote:This chain of calamity originated in the Great War’s destruction of sound money" No it didn't it originated in the Great War's ravaging of society. quote:This liberal international economic order—that is, honest money, relatively free trade, rising international capital flows and rapidly growing global economic integration—-resulted in a 40-year span between 1870 and 1914 of rising living standards, stable prices, massive capital investment and prolific technological progress that was never equaled—either before or since. Ah yes the wondrous living standards of the gilded age shall never be reached again! Also the idea that since the invention of the computer technological progress hasn't exploded is quote:Yet England was the least devastated. Well gee I wonder why the country where no warfare took place and suffered no blockade didn't suffer as much as those that did. quote:Among the defeated powers, currencies emerged nearly worthless with the German mark at five cents on the pre-war dollar, while wartime debts—especially after the Carthaginian peace of Versailles—–soared to crushing, unrepayable heights. This was because the Kaiser and Reichstag decided that borrowing money to pay for the entire war was the best way to go and the payments put on Germany by Versailles being absurdly high is an artifact of nazi propaganda. If they were so unrepayable why did the Weimer Republic manage to make the $500mil annual payments because the reparations were no where near as bad as the whining Germany issued about them made them out to be. quote:America’s wholly unwarranted intervention in April 1917 prolonged the slaughter, doubled the financial due bill and generated a cockamamie peace quote:Had Woodrow Wilson not misled America on a messianic crusade, the Great War would have ended in mutual exhaustion in 1917 and both sides would have gone home battered and bankrupt but no danger to the rest of mankind. Indeed, absent Wilson’s crusade there would have been no allied victory, no punitive peace, and no war reparations; nor would there have been a Leninist coup in Petrograd or Stalin’s barbaric regime Oh man that would be great proof if the AEF didn't arrive in France until very early 1918. And then after that point he goes into black gay hitler territory which should have been the tipoff to someone as dense as you that he's full of poo poo.
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Oct 2, 2014 21:44
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asdf32 posted:Why is fiat currency so important Because fiat money infringes on gold, the driving power of libertarianism.
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Oct 2, 2014 22:37
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VitalSigns posted:Most interesting fact I learned today: I would expect no less from violating Washington's farewell speech.
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Oct 2, 2014 23:09
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StandardVC10 posted:1 - Paper currency on the gold standard is nominally redeemable for gold. If you issue more currency in paper than you have gold, there's a problem. Someone better informed than me at the moment can probably elucidate. The problem is that you get less gold per dollar and the dreaded ghost of inflation makes a mess of your pots and pans.
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Oct 3, 2014 00:34
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Another Great Depression fun fact: the gold standard made it harder to exit the Great Depression hence the mass exodus from the standard in the early 1930s.
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Oct 3, 2014 04:12
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 Eh there is a small correlation but not a particularly strong one outside of the US. Also lol gj france
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Oct 3, 2014 04:22
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The Mutato posted:Explain how Valhalla DRO is going to brainwash a bunch a people enough to go to war without religion, nationalism or indoctrination from childhood going on. Do this thing or we will shoot you because no single person can stop us and we don't give a gently caress.
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Oct 3, 2014 07:00
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The Mutato posted:Yeah all the other DROs are pretty keen to stop you, and that doesn't sound like a very motivated soldier. Well slave armies are less effective but cheaper.
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Oct 3, 2014 07:15
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The Mutato posted:Yes, but only if. I don't believe it would happen in the first place, and even if it does, there will still be less overall crime and death in the country that would more than make up for it. If I will away the negative aspects of my fantasy world it works perfectly!
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Oct 3, 2014 07:42
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So libertopia would have the mandate of heaven is what you're saying? 
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Oct 3, 2014 18:04
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Does anyone else's town publish in the paper when and where they're doing the checkpoints beforehand? Mine does and it seems like that defeats the purpose if you're telling the non-brain dead drunks how not to get caught.
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Oct 8, 2014 02:27
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jrodefeld posted:Remember that Bastiat quote? we just want to dismantle public education and leave a hole that boot strappers will be sure to fill! why do you say we're anti-education
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Nov 11, 2014 19:42
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I think what he was going for is the same thing my mom bitches about endlessly from her time as a doctor. People showing up in the ER who probably shouldn't have gone there but don't know any better because they're not loving doctors.
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Nov 11, 2014 20:21
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jrodefeld posted:For social welfare programs for the middle class and lower class, if you are disincentized from taking care of your own health, you rely on State aid that is forcefully extracted from the rest of us. If the filthy poors didn't want to get sick and go bankrupt perhaps they should have invested in a positive pressure bubble suit 
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Nov 11, 2014 20:29
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Alhazred posted:Even the ones that wasn't afraid to use violence got caught and executed:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Brown_(abolitionist) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elijah_Parish_Lovejoy Abolitionist newspaper publisher is murdered in 1837 in Illinois. Forget going to the South for your live to be in danger.
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Nov 11, 2014 20:40
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jrodefeld posted:I have not sourced any "well known racists". I have not done that nor would I ever trust or admire a racist commentator, economist or historian. You are falling back on that old leftist trope of employing the term "racist" as a catch all smear to tarnish the reputations of those who disagree with you. It is a tired cliche at this point. "Hans motherfuckin' Hoppe posted:"The current situation in the United States and in Western Europe has nothing whatsoever to do with “free” immigration. It is forced integration [...] The power to admit or exclude should be stripped from the hands of the central government and reassigned to the states, provinces, cities, towns, villages, residential districts, and ultimately to private property owners. [...], if only towns and villages could and would do what they did as a matter of course until well into the nineteenth century in Europe and the United States: to post signs regarding entrance requirements to the town, and once in town for entering specific pieces of property (no beggars, bums, or homeless, but also no Moslems, Hindus, Jews, Catholics, etc.); to expel as trespassers those who do not fulfill these requirements [...]" 
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Nov 11, 2014 21:13
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Choosing to do so on the basis of their skin color is racist, so sorry no, point not made.
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Nov 11, 2014 21:33
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