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I didn't know if I should post this here or in the Race Space (because of the content I'll get to) but here goes. I have a friend...who is a libertarian. I feel this is because he is ill-informed (he's lived in the 3rd richest town in California his whole life and his stepdad is a Silicon Valley Libertarian Type). Most of the time it's pretty easy to counter his arguments about the free market and how companies aren't altruistic at all, but there's one area I can't ever seem to gain traction on...and that's racially-based. He keeps throwing this study or idea or whatever the hell it is that Black people have been on a cultural decline since the 1950s because of Welfare, and that it did more harm to Black families than Slavery (I know there's at least one National Review article about it). Obviously I know that second part is bullshit but I can't counter the idea of welfare dependence or "cultural degradation" as easily. Does anybody have any idea how I can refute this other than by going "you seriously don't know what you're talking about please shut up." Or failing that, at least some information so that I don't think I'm going crazy. EDIT: again if this would be better served by going into the Race Space I'll post it there. Angry_Ed fucked around with this message at 03:43 on Feb 17, 2017 |
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Feb 17, 2017 03:39
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fishmech posted:This probably won't work, but ask him why all the welfare cuts since the 70s haven't changed this supposed decline. Also ask him if white culture also started to decline earlier, since whites got more welfare than blacks did in the Depression era. Seems almost simple in retrospect, I'll keep it in mind next time he goes off on it. You're right it probably won't work but at the very least I'll feel better knowing he can't say that poo poo unopposed anymore. Captain_Maclaine posted:First of all, I'd challenge him to describe what specifically he means by "cultural degeneracy," as I suspect it'll turn out to be something along the lines of "well they used to dress up all nice and neat for Civil Rights protests but now they just rap about bling and don't pull up their pants," or similar superficially racist garbage. Actually it's exactly that which also pisses me off. He's a real piece of work, the only reason I haven't cut him off is because if I do I know he'll just slip further into the virulent echochamber of Breitbart et. al. I also can't really debate him on that part effectively because it feels really loving awkward to be a white person telling a Hispanic person that he doesn't know what the gently caress he's talking about re: black people. Angry_Ed fucked around with this message at 04:36 on Feb 17, 2017 |
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Feb 17, 2017 04:34
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Discendo Vox posted:What source is your friend citing? Near as I can tell the only thing he's citing is a National Review article and/or something Don Lemon said one time (which might be quoting that national review article, which is here). I don't think he actually read the article ever, I'm pretty sure he heard it secondhand. Like I said I knew (or at least felt) it was bullshit but didn't want to just say "that's bullshit" without any sort of counter-argument that's better than "on the other hand, all of recorded history" because no matter how right that is, it hasn't really worked before. Angry_Ed fucked around with this message at 07:59 on Feb 17, 2017 |
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Feb 17, 2017 07:56
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JustJeff88 posted:I was just watching silly YouTube videos when they were interrupted by an announcement from the Harris institute or the Hudson institute or something like that. It was basically 90 seconds of made-up propaganda about how horrible single-payer healthcare is, but they were creative enough to use the British NHS and the Swedish sytems as examples (by examples, I mean that they just said that they were bad with no context or statistics) as opposed to just immediately lying about the Canadian system, which is the most common. Was it Prager "University"? They seem to be getting a lot of play amongst the one Libertarian I know.
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Jun 9, 2017 00:01
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Tab8715 posted:What's with libertarians using Hong Kong or Switzerland as example or even good examples of a libertarian country? They think Switzerland has no gun control because of the fact that the Swiss Army is more of a militia (a well-regulated one at that  ) and they used to hand out free bullets. This is not a thing that happens anymore, mind, and in fact Switzerland's gun laws are pretty reasonable.-No automatic weapons -Gun registries -If you want to buy a gun you have to produce valid ID, your address, and a criminal record not older than 3 months -Concealed carry is usually limited to people who need their weapons for their occupations. there's some other stuff too but those are the ones that I figured would piss off Libertarians the most.
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May 16, 2019 16:27
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Golbez posted:The wisdom of Walter Block: Also using the word "Orientals" in 2019.
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Sep 9, 2019 16:59
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VitalSigns posted:How old is Walter Block 78. Soon he's going to be telling us he had an onion on his belt, as was the style at the time.
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Sep 9, 2019 18:14
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Eh, it's been done 
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Sep 10, 2019 15:44
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Or even
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Sep 10, 2019 20:29
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There are so many questions...
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Aug 9, 2020 08:11
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Doc Hawkins posted:also you can identify and persecute individual simps (gamer term for "simulated people") is this the new term for that lovely "npc" meme now.
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Dec 23, 2020 21:07
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I don't think this person has any clue how Central Banks were created or worked. Then again they're a libertarian so they don't have any idea how anything works.
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Jan 10, 2021 19:24
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Panfilo posted:https://twitter.com/RonPaul/status/1525504528417804289?t=tHnh3hHTq4J1SYT6w_mYKQ&s=19 Just like if we didn't have minimum wage laws companies would start magically paying people more, right Ron? This stuff frustrates me because they're so vague on how it would totally fix the problem that you're unable to argue it in any meaningful way, not that it matters since it's not like anyone who believes this crap will listen.
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May 17, 2022 03:34
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The existence of the Interstate Highway System alone disproves literally everything about that Libertarian tweet. Then again they probably think Pixar's Cars is a parable about how small-town America was destroyed by the Interstate bypassing so many of them
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Jun 16, 2022 15:38
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Panfilo posted:https://twitter.com/LibertariansDP/status/1538654916671053824?t=yI0utRv-HTAouvSCTlAGfQ&s=19 Also it's cow burps that cause the most methane, but that's just the cherry on this sundae of wrong beliefs.
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Jun 21, 2022 21:15
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Panfilo posted:https://twitter.com/LibertariansDP/status/1545015448563060736?t=bzV7CCCjNgpkexpkRVHUXQ&s=19 Also most Libertarians I've encountered only seem to understand supply and demand curves in a vacuum (Microeconomics 101) so it's not like they read Sowell either.
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Jul 13, 2022 20:19
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JustJeff88 posted:You will notice that his post doesn't actually make any critiques of central planning. He just says that it's bad and makes some flowery metaphor about how bad it is. He doesn't have anything useful to say or insightful criticisms to offer, he's just pandering to his niche audience of angry (moreso than even republican) losers of capitalism. Kind of like how he claimed during the 2012 primaries that he'd get gas to be only a nickel a gallon, because the amount of silver in a "War Nickel" (minted only from 1942-1945) at the time was worth about the same amount as a gallon of gas. Obviously none of this makes any sense for a variety of reasons up to and including the fact that silver (and gold) don't have a fixed price, but also because Ron Paul is an absolute lunatic who thinks people just have "War Nickels" (by the way this is not something he specified, wonder why) laying about just waiting to be spent for what they're actually worth instead of a measly 5 cents. Goldbugs constantly make this kind of argument "conveniently" "forgetting" that the average person does not have tons of gold and silver just waiting to be turned into money Fake Edit: also it should be pointed out that Ron Paul and his son are both "winners" of capitalism since they are or were both doctors meaning they benefited from the country's incredibly hosed and exploitative healthcare system. Angry_Ed fucked around with this message at 15:01 on Sep 28, 2022 |
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Sep 28, 2022 14:58
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Professor Shark posted:One of the most annoying Libertarian arguments is that companies won’t cut corners and potentially harm their customers being Logical Actors when history has shown the complete opposite Especially right now, when we have once again been reminded that ExxonMobil knew they were causing adverse effects to the climate, and spent 30+ years covering up the information. Because it was deemed that killing the planet was better for the bottom line than being ahead of the curve and becoming a pioneer in green energy or something.
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Jan 18, 2023 19:43
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Panfilo posted:The other wonky thing Libertarians claim is how income tax revenue doesn't actually fund any public services, they think it all gets thrown down a volcano or something. I think it's connected to their claim that roads and schools existed before income tax. Well you see the amendments don't count (and apparently neither does Article I, Section 8)
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Jan 25, 2023 19:40
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For people like Kirk, Shapiro, and so forth, they think winning a debate means you were able to replicate calmhitler.jpg because obviously showing anger (or any emotion) is a weakness.
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Mar 17, 2023 18:01
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Harold Fjord posted:Debates are all about the intellectual performance of charisma without the actual thing "An idiot's idea of what a smart person sounds like"
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Mar 17, 2023 18:08
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Panfilo posted:https://twitter.com/TRHLofficial/status/1640712154629439488?t=2bgM-e_6ZUCvnqfT6NGmag&s=19 There's a reply that claims "Any nation without the 2nd is a slave nation" Someone get me the  that gets larger.Also not sure if its a good or a bad sign nobody is pushing back on the obvious lies of that tweet. Angry_Ed fucked around with this message at 20:04 on Mar 28, 2023 |
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Mar 28, 2023 19:58
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SlothfulCobra posted:Brace yourself for this one. "Socialism = State Violence" is hilariously oversimplified and wrong when Fascism is right there, but as usual, scratch a libertarian and a Fascist bleeds.
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Apr 25, 2023 15:31
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How the gently caress are those things related. Mooseontheloose posted:I can't find the article but NPR had a political scientist on a few years ago who said the same thing. A real 3rd Party would be a racist socially left party in the United States. The whole, if we just show we don't tax people thing is a bullshit position borne from corporate media that continually push that as the American center. I'm amazed it took a political scientist to tell us something the New Deal already demonstrated.
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May 3, 2023 02:38
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Another problem is that they usually determine that ranking by self-identification and a huge swatch of people like to say they are moderate or independent, despite voting exactly like how a strong partisan or ideological voter would vote. I always, personally, felt the whole "moderate or independent" self-identificaton was primarily people too embarrassed/ashamed to admit their political leanings depending on the political climate at the time (or occasionally, such as with people like Bill O'Reilly, outright lying about it) Granted there are people who genuinely don't have a party identification but I feel that's a small percentage of all the self-identifying independents. Ultimately as you pointed out most of them vote along some sort of partisan line anyway.
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May 5, 2023 15:19
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Professor Shark posted:Tim Pool is astoundingly dumb. I forget if it was itt or another , but I did an exercise with a Grade 8 class on Themes where I was only able to ask questions about Squid Game and it led to them deciphering the theme… whereas Tim Pool thought that the show was about the dangers of Socialism Also even members of his own family have publically called him out on how utterly stupid he is. Really it's a stroke of cosmic luck that someone so dumb has a name that rhymes with "Dim Fool"
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Jun 24, 2023 15:43
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You'd think after being defeated by bears the NH Libertarians would learn to shut the gently caress up.
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Jun 26, 2023 22:16
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Panfilo posted:https://twitter.com/LPNational/status/1676705650561236993?t=_MHm-1zd-8NWyBpFGOnO5w&s=19 Don't make me tap the sign that has Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution on it again.
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Jul 6, 2023 23:49
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Professor Shark posted:Looks like brain damage preventing empathy or logical reasoning getting slapped around by a bear will do that to you. EDIT: I don't know why I looked at the account just now and of course they have not only doubled down, but probably sesquicentupled down at this point. Angry_Ed fucked around with this message at 19:58 on Jul 19, 2023 |
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Jul 19, 2023 19:56
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Captain_Maclaine posted:New Hampshire libertarians are, somehow, much worse than other libertarians, and that was before the mises fascists took the party over. And not just because of the bears, that's incidental. They're absolutely useless, they can't even get weed legalized in their state. Uptight Massachusetts figured this poo poo out before they did. EDIT: NH is literally the only New England state that doesn't have fully legalized Marijuana. Absolute embarrassment. Angry_Ed fucked around with this message at 20:01 on Jul 19, 2023 |
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Jul 19, 2023 19:59
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Mooseontheloose posted:Listen, I own this parcel of land of clean water, don't ask me how I got the money, or get possession of the land, or tell me about how "water is necessary to live." If we can put a price on it, it's moral and just to let the free market decide what the cost of living is. Andrew Ryan posted:On the surface, I once bought a forest. The Parasites claimed that the land belonged to God, and demanded that I establish a public park there. Why? So the rabble could stand slack-jawed under the canopy and pretend that it was paradise earned. When Congress moved to nationalize my forest, I burnt it to the ground. God did not plant the seeds of this Arcadia; I did. 16 years later and reality outpaces fiction.
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Jul 19, 2023 22:02
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Perestroika posted:Once upon a time, economists have decided that the relationship between employment and wages can be fully described as a fairly straightforward supply/demand dynamic. Under that model, an increase in price (minimum wage) would necessarily lead to a drop in demand, i.e fewer jobs. It's a very simple and elegant explanation. The fact that reality frequently contradicts it doesn't seem to trouble them. Well yeah, the Austrian school doesn't believe in things like "reality".
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Jul 23, 2023 14:07
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Mooseontheloose posted:A perfectly rational spherical economy. For perfectly rational spherical brains
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Jul 23, 2023 16:07
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Rappaport posted:I want to see the libertopia with flying cars now. It'd be brief, but oh so bright (with explosions). Assuming the flying cars even get off the ground instead of exploding on engine start.
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Aug 23, 2023 18:20
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Jesus III posted:Our high school football team runs it and the Moron Lobby flag during games. The really funny thing is we used to have a cannon, but they took it away because it was too loud. So the flag doesn't even mean poo poo cause they already came and took it 
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Aug 31, 2023 00:28
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Panfilo posted:https://twitter.com/BigRedCeltTT/status/1698153149553332243?t=cJB1hTxF3G1FNNQM232k7w&s=19 Wasn't the Fyre Fest already proof of concept that Libertalia wouldn't work?
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Sep 3, 2023 23:02
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Guavanaut posted:I remember that libertarian responding to something said about Cuba's successful literacy program with "I'd rather be illiterate than only be allowed to read commie propaganda" and I'm having similar thoughts about ACE worksheets and The Fountainhead. I don't think reading anything by Ayn Rand would make you literate though. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFh9vdxtDPQ
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Oct 26, 2023 22:30
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Pantaloon Pontiff posted:You're right; I think of the big idealogical tightening of the Republican party that included things like the Contract With America as something that lead to the Tea Party, but TP is a group that didn't exist until the 2000s, didn't take off until around 2008, and now has mostly faded out so it's really just a side thing and not a good shorthand to use. the Tea Party was a 100% astroturfed movement and hasn't faded out so much as become the mainstream Republican party ideology
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Oct 27, 2023 00:00
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Panfilo posted:
They said, posting to the Internet on state-provided communication protocols with state-provided electricity.
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Oct 30, 2023 21:16
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I AM GRANDO posted:The patent thing is weird because isn’t that part of enforcing contracts, the only thing libertarians think government should do? Only when it's enforcing contracts on things they support.
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Jan 27, 2024 00:36
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