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Like I said, stuff other than silver dungeons was out of control. But silver dungeons was the one step that made you actually show some button pushing ability.
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Aug 12, 2014 21:16
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Evil_Greven posted:Why do you want the game to determine for you who is fit or unfit to raid? You have a point, once someone gets into a raid and they can't hack it it might be worth it to note and take them into SSM to "get good" really we have seen a number of people gently caress up bad in raids and they got their silver's. The silver badge of honor (or whatever) really is indicative of nothing other than your willingness to grind your dick against a wall. The only real way to tell if you can raid is to get you in a raid and see.
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Aug 12, 2014 21:23
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Szcwczuk posted:If you had to "poopsock" to do basic content you might be bad. He said nothing about having to poopsock dungeons only that self-titled poopsockers on reddit are crying big ol tears hth Sterling_Archer posted:Like I said, stuff other than silver dungeons was out of control. But silver dungeons was the one step that made you actually show some button pushing ability. I think each step on it's own is pretty reasonable but all mashed and forced to be done in order they're kind of a bear. Bronze means you have a hat that says you have muscled your way through a dungeon. It's not like you can't be carried through a silver run. Either way GS probably needs this change pretty bad. Maybe it was in a different mumble but I didn't see the raid go monday.
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Aug 12, 2014 21:24
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Sterling_Archer posted:Like I said, stuff other than silver dungeons was out of control. But silver dungeons was the one step that made you actually show some button pushing ability. your argument would be more heavily weighted if you and other groups didn't just sub people in at the end of them to get people lagging behind silvers.
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Aug 12, 2014 21:30
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Asema posted:your argument would be more heavily weighted if you and other groups didn't just sub people in at the end of them to get people lagging behind silvers. Sorry for getting people through the content faster, so we can raid with goon. Really we could have legit run them through it would have been fine, 1 or 2 learning runs and then a silver. It's just faster to get 5 really well geared dudes to slice through it.
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Aug 12, 2014 21:33
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Szcwczuk posted:Sorry for getting people through the content faster, so we can raid with goon. Really we could have legit run them through it would have been fine, 1 or 2 learning runs and then a silver. It's just faster to get 5 really well geared dudes to slice through it. You don't have to defend sterlings dumb words. Lots of guilds have swapped people out because it's a dumb step that doesn't loving prove anything. It's not a unique thing to anybody because everybody and their loving mother have done it from all corners of world. (Which isn't why this is a bad change. Which proves why it's a dumb step. Which blah blah blah blah)
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Aug 12, 2014 21:48
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None of these arguments even matter because the few times you've raided the all-around performance was atrocious. People dying to the same avoidable damage / mechanics every pull, players unable to clear the 3k DPS threshold, all the while trash-talking other players as if that will shift the focus off them. Hell, one night we could barely clear the trash, let alone get X89 past 50%. It's no wonder nobody showed up Monday night. Call people out for being "poopsockers" all you want, it doesn't change the fact that most of you are clearly not ready or capable of handling the content of this game. It doesn't require a huge time investment. It just requires you to possess some form of frontal lobe capacity, which most of the Wildstar players have none. You people should be thanking Sterling and his crew for carrying you through Silver dungeons. He has more patience than I did when trying to do it.
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Aug 12, 2014 21:51
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ahy ess dee eph posted:
Oh yeah the 12 new people to the instance who have never been inside the instance and didn't get explained how to do the trash pulls wiped a few times on them because nobody took the time to explain them to people. Woops. Didn't get carried through silver dungeons but this attitude is pretty loving poo poo 
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Aug 12, 2014 21:59
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The good players with frontal lobes are like the top 1%. There will be like one raid group on one server and that will be it.
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Aug 12, 2014 22:08
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ahy ess dee eph posted:You people should be thanking Sterling and his crew for carrying you through Silver dungeons. He has more patience than I did when trying to do it. Maybe we would have been better off still being 7 people from being able to go. Not going to GA is better than going to GA and failing... on the first night you stepped foot in there.
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Aug 12, 2014 22:09
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Sterling_Archer posted:Like I said, stuff other than silver dungeons was out of control. But silver dungeons was the one step that made you actually show some button pushing ability. To be clear, I didn't mind the Silver attunement. I liked the level of challenge it provided, and completing my attunement was probably one of the most satisfying accomplishments in any MMO I've played. When I take a step back and think about it, I would say about 80% of the knowledge I gained during attunement was during the FIRST run of each dungeon. After clearing a Bronze dungeon once, subsequent runs were almost trivial in comparison, and just required tightening up my skills. It absolutely improved my abilities, rotations, etc, but I still think I learned almost everything I needed to know just by clearing every dungeon once though. The issue was more that the timers were tuned too tightly. In order to beat Stormtalon, you HAVE to skip the entire hallway from Aethros to Stormtalon. Skullcano (until they added the new holocrypt) required nearly zero wipes/perfect run (which is what Gold medals are supposed to be for). A valid solution would've been to loosen the timers, but I really don't think lowering to Bronze is a "GG CARBINE CATERING TO CASUALS" kind of change.
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Aug 12, 2014 22:18
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Asema posted:Oh yeah the 12 new people to the instance who have never been inside the instance and didn't get explained how to do the trash pulls wiped a few times on them because nobody took the time to explain them to people. Woops. It's called YouTube. Look up the fights before-hand like we had to the first time we went in. You can't expect people you carry you through attunement AND the raid content and hope to make any sort of progression. Too many people think that showing up is just good enough and just sit around facerolling hoping to get their loot-equivalent of a participation medal.
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Aug 12, 2014 22:34
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How dare somebody expects a raid leader to lead them in a raid. Wow jesus christ do you read what you loving write? Did you notice that the wipes stopped once IronTusk explained what to do and set up a stun rotation? loving CRAZY I TELL YOU
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Aug 12, 2014 22:38
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Asema posted:How dare somebody expects a raid leader to lead them in a raid. Wow jesus christ do you read what you loving write? Did you notice that the wipes stopped once IronTusk explained what to do and set up a stun rotation? Collar that dog, boy. It's just a video game. No need for all that nerd rage. The wipes on trash did stop, yes, but then we proceeded to wipe on X89 for the rest of the night because the same people kept dying to the same avoidable mechanic attempt-after-attempt. You of all people should know I'm patient and have no problem helping people learn new content; provided they're actually making an attempt to LEARN. It's when people just don't care and expect to hide in the zerg and get carried that I get frustrated and upset because it's not fair to the people who are actually making an effort and "doing their jobs"
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Aug 12, 2014 22:43
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If you suck, raids aren't for you and sadly at this point neither is Wildstar, because there's not a lot else to do to keep you playing. Don't hate yourself and whine about it on the forums, just save everyone some time and quit and keep waiting for the WoW expansion where you can faceroll a LFR with 19 other downs kids.
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Aug 12, 2014 23:12
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ahy ess dee eph posted:Anyway, I'm debating leaving my Guild on Warbringer (Absolutely Delicious) because they don't know how to run a raid and they're full of entitled children who are the product of WoW's loot welfare system. I told you that GS wasn't the raid guild you were looking for!
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Aug 12, 2014 23:17
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Seriously though it's kind of whoever's in charge's job to do basic raid poo poo like explain trash that isn't just don't stand in cleave and set up rotations. Some people won't be up to snuff, it happens, you just write down their names and don't take them if you can help it next time. And the world keeps on turning.
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Aug 12, 2014 23:18
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Eldercain posted:Seriously though it's kind of whoever's in charge's job to do basic raid poo poo like explain trash that isn't just don't stand in cleave and set up rotations. Some people won't be up to snuff, it happens, you just write down their names and don't take them if you can help it next time. What did I say about posting in the thread? If your computer explodes, don't come crying to me.
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Aug 12, 2014 23:20
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I don't get the anger about the attunement change. I really don't. In what sense does it hurt you? If someone is good enough for X89, then the attunement was just pointless gating, since they are good enough already. If they're not good enough, they're not going to be able to kill the boss, so why does it matter if they get to see him? Without 20 people good enough, you will not kill X89. That is, by definition, true. So if undergeared/underbrained people are in the raid and you wipe, why blame the easier attunement? If it wasn't made easier you still wouldn't have a dead boss, you wouldn't even be throwing attempts in there. If you're taking bad people because you don't have enough good people, it's just a different way to fail a raid. Basically, easier attunement is literally 100% upside. It does not prevent you from doing anything you were already able to do, the only reason not to like it is because FILTHY CASUALS. If people aren't good enough to raid, that's a separate problem, and yes it is something to be unhappy about but they'd be bad regardless of whether Carbine made them jump through an arbitrary hoop. Clearly attunement as it stands is not enough of a skill test if you're having so many problems.
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Aug 12, 2014 23:20
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Sterling_Archer posted:
Some people are struggling through silvers because it's not that easy to find a group. I admit that there are people who couldn't silver a dungeon without 4 other super good people carrying but there are other people who can do it easily if they had 4 other reasonably skilled people.
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Aug 12, 2014 23:22
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REDjackeT posted:What did I say about posting in the thread? If your computer explodes, don't come crying to me. I am secretly punishing myself because I am grieving over Robin Williams 
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Aug 12, 2014 23:24
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guys i know we have a lot of interesting opinions on this change but can we agree that the r/wildstar reactions are hilarious? people literally saying that they're not interested in playing a game that people dumber than them can play. "IMO there's little to no future for MMOs anymore. People are just either too casual or too bad. All people want is a interactive movie to keep them entertained, there's no place for real challenging games." "The genre has been dying for years now. Anything that is hard is nerfed and instant gratification is cheered for. Games like LoL which don't require time or like Telltale games that don't take skill/effort are blooming because nowadays people don't want to put effort and dedication onto nothing. MMOs are being forced to change the genre to accommodate for this new mass mentality which is just awful IMO." "I'm done, just unsubbed. NOT because of any of these changes specifically, but because they promised they wouldn't gear the game towards casuals and they are doing it. I have 2/4 of the silver dungeons and it was the most fun I've had in an MMO in a long time, working towards something, progressing more than just a few nights a week. This change is not even the first step towards another generic MMO (see all other dungeon nerfs, class buffs)."  CASUALS
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Aug 12, 2014 23:45
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After doing all the dungeons (except Stormtalon but I imagine I'll finish that tonight), I think the two main skills that you can learn from silvering them that are more or less applicable to a generic raid encounter are: the importance of interrupt rotations, and doing enough DPS fast enough. Everything else seems like bullshit, or stuff specific to a particular boss, or stuff only relevant to doing the dungeon quickly. Those two don't seem like worth having a timer over. The importance of interrupts can be taught without a timer (just have a boss kill you if you don't do it), and the latter can be done by using an enrage timer on one of the dungeon bosses. The reason I suspect why silver groups are so draining, unless you have four other experienced people carrying you, is that you're usually about halfway through the dungeon before you realize you can't beat the time and have to reboot. I think bronze is a reasonable change. If necessary, they could balance it for the hardcore crowd by moving more gear checks to the initial raid trash through some tank-and-spank miniboss that has an enrage timer and hits hard.
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Aug 12, 2014 23:49
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ahy ess dee eph posted:None of these arguments even matter because the few times you've raided the all-around performance was atrocious. Yeah you guys are all ungrateful fucks, it's not like this guy is an unlikable fuckwit or anything. Point in case: ahy ess dee eph posted:Collar that dog, boy. It's just a video game. No need for all that nerd rage. A night of learning is a night of learning, every wipe tells you something. The very first time I stepped into Vet Stormtalon I spent most of the night slamming into lightning like that poo poo was my job. I was in an unfamiliar role (DPS when I was used to doing healing) using an unfamiliar rotation (I had just plugged in trigger fingers the day before) and was largely carried by my group. The next time I stepped in it was with four new people who had never done it before and me, the only one who had. I had spent time on my rotation learning it and how to move while casting it. Roughly half of our "learning wipes" I got to voidslip out while everyone ran back because the tank and I were the last ones alive. By the time we were on our 3rd/4th runthroughs I was pre-voidslipping tricky mechanics to dump interupts early so we could take down the encounters at a faster pace. Just because you suck rear end on the first night of runs doesn't mean every subsequent night is going to. And if anything once a raid has hit a certain mark you start losing effectiveness as people stop paying attention because they have been doing it for too long. They need to sleep on it. Any good raid leader knows when to call a halt and try again the next day so a well rested group of people can try the content they tasted the night before. I can't list how many times I've been doing a particularly hard thing in xyz MMO and called it, only to one/two shot it the next day. Minsky posted:Those two don't seem like worth having a timer over. The importance of interrupts can be taught without a timer (just have a boss kill you if you don't do it), and the latter can be done by using an enrage timer on one of the dungeon bosses. The reason I suspect why silver groups are so draining, unless you have four other experienced people carrying you, is that you're usually about halfway through the dungeon before you realize you can't beat the time and have to reboot. STL has two bosses that will flat out loving instagib you if you don't interrupt. Stormtalon himself is a really soft dps check. Rhymenoserous fucked around with this message at 00:01 on Aug 13, 2014 |
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Aug 12, 2014 23:53
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Rhymenoserous posted:Yeah you guys are all ungrateful fucks, it's not like this guy is an unlikable fuckwit or anything. I may be unlikable, but that doesn't mean I'm wrong.
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Aug 12, 2014 23:55
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On the subject of being grateful, I wanna give a shout-out to Cubetwok who's been a part of every one of my successful silvers and always seems to be among the first to say yes whenever anyone asks to do a dungeon (though definitely not the only one), and always helps people through the encounters. That dude's all right!
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Aug 13, 2014 00:00
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ahy ess dee eph posted:I may be unlikable, but that doesn't mean I'm wrong. Yeah, I don't know about that buddy.
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Aug 13, 2014 00:00
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ahy ess dee eph posted:I may be unlikable, but that doesn't mean I'm wrong. I edited my post to explain why you were wrong as well. Enjoy.
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Aug 13, 2014 00:02
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ahy ess dee eph posted:Collar that dog, boy. It's just a video game. No need for all that nerd rage.  Edit: I spent 4-5 years as a progression raider in wow, and I can tell right off the bat that you're just not ready for it. Progression raiding isn't about one and done boss loot pinatas. It's about grinding your raid's dick into a boss until just enough of the raid understand just enough of the encounter that it works and you down it. There isn't anything more to raiding than a set of investments in time and in people. Calling everyone out on being a poo poo player does nothing for progressing past bosses, all it does is make everyone hate you and the raid turns in on itself because it's a hostile environment and good things don't come out of hostile environments. Fortunately, I doubt you'll get to be around for another raid to keep turning it into a hostile environment, but don't worry: you'll look really cool when you and your 1-4 friends who are 2 cool 4 school leave the raid snapping your fingers and popping the collars on your leather jackets. LITERALLY MY FETISH fucked around with this message at 00:11 on Aug 13, 2014 |
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Aug 13, 2014 00:04
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Point is, I have nothing against you guys. I joined this Guild and immediately started helping people out in any way I could. I took people through SSM to help them learn the fights, I helped people with any class / role questions they had. The whole time during raids all I heard over Mumble was trash-talking and poo poo-talking against other players. Lots of sperglording, lots of holier than thou bullshit. All from people who, for the most part, were carried through their attunement on the backs of other players who had done it legitimately. Too much infighting, too much poo poo-talking, not enough action and solid play. I wish you the best of luck, but you guys seem to be stuck in this eternal loop of blame-shifting. It's only a matter of time before you guys give up and go back to your roots of trolling Zone chat in a vain attempt to relive your Rift days. It's no wonder all your solid players left and / or transferred servers.
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Aug 13, 2014 00:13
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Can you please stop posting like that? I's painful to read.
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Aug 13, 2014 00:15
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Bauxite posted:
Pretty much agree with this guy. The only thing I'll add is one of the hallmarks of a good raid leader is knowing when to stop for the night because people stop being sloppy because they don't know the content, and start being sloppy because they are sick of wiping on it. As far as toxic elements in the raid go: that's why you need a good raid leader. A good raid leader stops that poo poo cold. I've never raided with goons and the general "If you are a goon you are golden" inclusiveness... but I've spent three major WoW expansions as a raid leader in a small progression guild. I know when it's time to kick someone the gently caress out of the raid, and sometimes out of the guild because they are dragging everyone else down. EDIT: I never expect anything out of the first night on a boss except "See the mechanics". If we end up 2-3 bosses in it's a surprise. Rhymenoserous fucked around with this message at 00:20 on Aug 13, 2014 |
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Aug 13, 2014 00:17
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ahy ess dee eph posted:The whole time during raids all I heard over Mumble was trash-talking and poo poo-talking against other players. Lots of sperglording, lots of holier than thou bullshit. All from people who, for the most part, were carried through their attunement on the backs of other players who had done it legitimately. This was 4 people. Go ahead and guess who they were.
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Aug 13, 2014 00:22
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ahy ess dee eph posted:The whole time during raids all I heard over Mumble was trash-talking and poo poo-talking against other players. Lots of sperglording, lots of holier than thou bullshit. All from people who, for the most part, were carried through their attunement on the backs of other players who had done it legitimately. Carried or not (99.9999%) of them were not if they don't die to the same poo poo over and over again they have every right to be pissed at people for being awful and wasting time. Look I can tell you right now, once the people who are doing these mean awful things to you quit it wont magically make you able to do the mechanics. There is not raid guild in the game that would put up with a person who can't stop getting killed by the same simple bullshit time and time again. I know it really bursts your bubble hearing all that but it's true. edit: The people who are being mean are the same people who step up EVERYDAY to run or carry people through attunement and set up raids, lead them and teach people the content. Once they gently caress off you're going to have a hell of a time getting raids started for a while.
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Aug 13, 2014 00:27
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Bauxite posted:all it does is make everyone hate you and the raid turns in on itself because it's a hostile environment and good things don't come out of hostile environments. I feel like if I never made another post other than quoting this that it would be the most useful thing anyone could ever post Rhymenoserous posted:A good raid leader stops that poo poo cold. I've never raided with goons and the general "If you are a goon you are golden" inclusiveness... but I've spent three major WoW expansions as a raid leader in a small progression guild. I know when it's time to kick someone the gently caress out of the raid, and sometimes out of the guild because they are dragging everyone else down. It's really not so bad. You get people who can't perform and sometimes, sometimes you have to tell them that they have to really get it together if they want to raid. Usually they either say "I can't do that" or they practice real hard and you get a raider out of them. The secret ingredient is ~communication~ and ~understanding~ but those are not traits goons who have the patience to raid lead often have.
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Aug 13, 2014 00:28
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Szcwczuk posted:edit: The people who are being mean are the same people who step up EVERYDAY to run or carry people through attunement and set up raids, lead them and teach people the content. Once they gently caress off you're going to have a hell of a time getting raids started for a while. That doesn't give anyone the right to become a complete turd as soon as it's a raid. I don't know why anyone would think that way, but a guild isn't a vending machine for raiders. You don't put time into the guild to attune people and then shake the poo poo out of the vending machine when raid loot doesn't pop out in the bottom because the vending machine will fall on you and kill you instead. You help guild members because you want to help them, not because you're getting something out of it.
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Aug 13, 2014 00:39
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Bauxite posted:That doesn't give anyone the right to become a complete turd as soon as it's a raid. I don't know why anyone would think that way, but a guild isn't a vending machine for raiders. You don't put time into the guild to attune people and then shake the poo poo out of the vending machine when raid loot doesn't pop out in the bottom because the vending machine will fall on you and kill you instead. You help guild members because you want to help them, not because you're getting something out of it. There's only so much help we can give, we can explain what the boss is going to do and what you need to do. If you die to the same poo poo over and over again that's on you.
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Aug 13, 2014 00:47
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Szcwczuk posted:edit: The people who are being mean are the same people who step up EVERYDAY to run or carry people through attunement and set up raids, lead them and teach people the content. Once they gently caress off you're going to have a hell of a time getting raids started for a while. Szcwczuk posted:There's only so much help we can give, we can explain what the boss is going to do and what you need to do. If you die to the same poo poo over and over again that's on you. Exactly what I've been saying this whole time.
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Aug 13, 2014 00:51
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Szcwczuk posted:There's only so much help we can give, we can explain what the boss is going to do and what you need to do. If you die to the same poo poo over and over again that's on you. You misunderstand me. I'm saying that you shouldn't expect anything out of anyone just because you helped them in a video game. Getting angry because people don't meet your expectations accomplishes nothing but to alienate you from everyone else. You've gone raiding with this group of people maybe twice. Unless it's super easy content that a significant portion of the group has already done seperately, you aren't going to win fights right out the gate. It takes time for people to learn both the bosses and their role in this specific group of people, and if you're unwilling to give people that time then you're the one that doesn't fit, not them. This has nothing to do with how good or bad people are in video games, and has everything to do with how people are people, not robots that do precisely what you tell them and meet all of your expectations. Social skills are a much more important part of raiding than individual player skill.
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Aug 13, 2014 01:18
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Is this what happens if you raid with semi-strangers you only know on the internet? I've only really raided with a core group of people I still wanted to interact with outside of video games so maybe I was a bit naive going into this, both in terms of tone used to correct mistakes and how soon you should get mad at people for not killing a boss. This is an unexpected amount of hostility flying about. Psykmoe fucked around with this message at 01:28 on Aug 13, 2014 |
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Aug 13, 2014 01:26
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