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I'm definitely one of those people who's getting frustrated with the ever-decreasing number of actually heroic characters. Everyone gets the "sometimes evil wins," and "the world is a harsh place" aspects of the story. But the constant repetition of those themes isn't really enriching anything at this point. At the very least, this should piss Dorne off pretty severely. I'd love to see Ellaria Sand put the Mountain down next week if he somehow didn't die already. It'd suck if Oberyn's death means literally nothing; instigating Dorne's renewed antagonism of the Lannisters would be a great compromise.
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Jun 2, 2014 11:32
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bob holness paradox posted:"Elia of Dorne. You raped her, you murdered her. You killed her children" Yeah, this is what I'm getting out of it. Dorne will probably be pissed Oberyn died, but won't be able to officially react due to the nature of a trial by combat. But The Mountain *did* explicitly admit to murdering Elia and her children, and that's something Dorne can respond to. Of course, I hope this doesn't mean they kill Myrcella. I'd love it if the Martells weren't total douchebags, who murder a child to avenge murdered children. Doesn't Oberyn have children? I can't wait for them to march on Casterly Rock and then be murdered terribly.
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Jun 2, 2014 19:41
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Aristobulus posted:One thing I am curious about - after Oberyn's death pissed so many people off, if Tyrion does die in the next 2 episodes - how many people will actually stop watching the show for good? I seriously doubt Tyrion will die, for two reasons: 1) Tyrion is way more relevant to the story as a narrator than he is as anything else. He's the most effective audience surrogate, and provides the best commentary on what's happening. Killing him off silences that voice. 2) Tyrion's death doesn't actually affect anything external to him. He has no power, his family members are the ones killing him, and he has no remaining allies or friends. Most deaths (especially those of heroic characters) make the story more complex or interesting, not less. Ned was great, but his death instigated Robb's campaign and pushed a civil war. Robb's death ended that war, and created an absolute power vacuum in the North and the Riverlands (one filled by Houses whose reputations are now dogshit.) Now, Oberyn's death is hopefully going to shake Dorne out of its isolationist funk and get them more involved in the story in King's Landing. Meanwhile, Tyrion could die tomorrow, nothing would change, and he'd be mourned only by Jaime, Pod, and maybe Bronn for 5 minutes. The *only* thing Tyrion's death would accomplish is to excise the most interesting character from the world. It's not that he has "plot armor," because there's nothing he needs to accomplish. It'd just weaken the story for no benefit.
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Jun 3, 2014 20:14
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Infinite Monkeys posted:I'm a couple of pages late, but RE: The Seven being poo poo gods compared to the Lord of Light, isn't Bran's magic mind control thing related to them? I seem to remember something to do with those old trees with faces being linked to both Bran's powers and The Seven, though I could be wrong. I thought the Northmen had a different religion than the Seven? Or, more, some people in the North still prefer the Old Gods to the Seven. Weirwood trees with faces, and three-eyed ravens and such that we see in Bran's visions are, I assumed, pagan images. Edit: Beaten handily.
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Jun 3, 2014 20:20
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Speleothing posted:Umm, the Drowned God accepts you into his watery bosom, and sends you back into the world harder and more badass. So they claim. Have we even once seen the Ironborn to be as badass as they say? The Boltons are the ones who seem markedly more badass than their peers.
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Jun 3, 2014 21:16
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Sentinel Red posted:Given. Baelon Greyjoy still lives despite the Lord of Light's Leeches of Doom, I maintain Drowned God supremacy over all other gods and their feeble magics. What was the order of the leeches again? Robb, Balon, and Joffrey, I guess. Yeah, the Drowned God primarily repels leech magic. Also, never dies?
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Jun 3, 2014 22:30
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BubbleGoose posted:...maybe this show has made me a bit cynical, because I can't picture a power player--and Targaryan on top of that--being so high minded and pure of thought as Dany attempts to be, without there being some darker, less conscious psychological motivation at work. You're right to think this way, though. Her story this season has been about her inability to control the empire she's built, and the single-minded violence behind her mission. She's still a naive teenager, who didn't understand that toppling the masters in Astapor and Yunkai just created a vacuum to be filled by new tyrants. And more than that, she's maniacal and violent in a way she can't see, since she tortured and murdered every master at Mereen, even if some may theoretically have been her allies under the new order. Which I think is a pretty organic way to complicate Dany as a character. She thinks she's above the base impulses of other rulers, and that she's on a messianic mission to save people. But really, she's as power-hungry and capricious as anyone. The scene where Drogon snaps at her says it all: power has a dark side that's dangerous and out of her control. The fact she finally dismissed Jorah, one of her primary voices of political reason, tells me she isn't getting the message. By the time she gets to Westeros, I imagine she'll be a wholesale villain and dictator. (My current long-form pet theory is that Jon Snow will become an influential figure in the North who commands an army, and Dany will eventually pull the trigger on an invasion of King's Landing, and those two factions will fight. Of course, this being Game of Thrones, they'll both die. Ramsay Bolton will be King of Westeros.)
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Jun 4, 2014 19:21
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the posted:First off, we're in a reality where there are fire-breathing dragons and vagina demons, and you're complaining about the realism in someone crushing someone's skull? I really hate this argument, because it's kind of willfully obtuse. The show features fantastic elements, but it also has established rules for how those elements function. Realism isn't suddenly an irrelevant concern because magic exists; magic works a certain way, and is usable in very specific contexts. Not that I think this applies to Gregor crushing Oberyn's skull...I actually believe that Hafthor Bjornsson can literally do this in life if he wanted. But it's not like "anything goes" because there are ice zombies in the same narrative. Gregor probably could punch all of a man's teeth out. But if he breathed fire to finish the job, or the tears of a child willed Oberyn back to life, that'd be jarring and confusing even though there's magic in the show. The vagina demons or dragons aren't relevant. I believe the Mountain could crush a skull because the story already established he was a hyper-strong behemoth. You don't need any more than that.
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Jun 5, 2014 01:19
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Vehementi posted:The other crazy cut like that was in an earlier season when Dany's brodawgs go and try to infiltrate that city. They kill a guard, and then OMG 6 guards come and they just BARELY kill those 6 guards, luckily dodging attacks & saving each other's asses & relying on enemies missing & tripping over poo poo randomly. Then 50 guards enter the room. Cut to ... Dany owns the city. Oh god, that scene. It didn't help that this was juxtaposed against the Red Wedding at the end of last season. Someone compared the Yunkai infiltration to a level from Streets of Rage. It is dead accurate, and now I want that game.
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Jun 5, 2014 21:30
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SoFarGone posted:But I think maybe Ramsay let Yara go because killing/enslaving both Greyjoy heirs might provoke all out war with Balon and he was afraid of how Roose might react to that. He'd already taken enough of that risk just loving with Theon. I don't think Ramsay gives a gently caress about all-out war with the Ironborn. Every interaction he's had with them has involved breaking his promises of leniency, and then flaying them alive. The Boltons basically already are at war with them, and I'm pretty sure Ramsay welcomes the prospect of more. On that point, I can't see Ramsay letting Yara go out of any consideration for Balon. He mailed Balon his son's genitals and called all Ironborn scum. He literally doesn't give a gently caress what they think or how angry they get. And this is assuming Balon cares enough about Yara to go after her. He clearly didn't care about Theon (especially after being castrated.) And even if he respects Yara more, it's not like she's going to propagate the Greyjoy name.
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Jun 6, 2014 00:03
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precision posted:I thought she was 14 in the books and 16 in the show in season 1? I didn't think they aged her up 4 entire years. Yeah, that sounds more right. Dany should be almost as old as Jon and Robb, since they would all have been conceived around the same time. My understanding was that Catelyn was pregnant with Robb when Ned went off to fight the Mad King, and that Jon was born during that same campaign. Since Aerys II was king-slain within this window, Dany had to be within at least 9 months of then. How old was (show) Robb in season one? 17?
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Jun 6, 2014 20:02
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