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gently caress, this episode was messed up. I knew Oberryn was probably gonna eat it when he went in prancing. Then there was that tiny hope that "oh hey, he has him down, just stab him a few more times, you and Tyrion can laugh and laugh"... and then it took too long. And you just knew. But godamn, I did not know how. Nothing in this show will feel better than when Cersei gets hers. When that day Tyrion threatened actually comes. Because godamn, she loving exudes an aura of hate. Tywin is a cold bastard, but at least his bullshit has purpose (and loving works often enough, as we saw with Jorah). Plus he gets mad points for not being super into Joffrey (and seemingly hardly giving a poo poo about who killed him). Time for Varys to become a main character again by saving Tyrion. Come on, buddy. Send him to the desert so they'll stop inventing sex plots involving eunuchs! You didn't get one, why should Grey Worm? Or send him north and have him help Jon. Jon likes him. God knows they need the help. I think Gregor sealed the fate of the Lannisters. If Oberryn lives, Dorne stays neutral; now, they might have some things to say (though I guess their ruler is sickly?). Bad enough that the Vale is mobilizing, but Roose Bolton is in charge of the North, and he's not big on loyalty. And his son bores easily. Tyrion either dies, or runs, and with him goes the most skilled player who truly cares about the king's fate. Tommen is so hosed. So very very hosed. Sansa growing agency this episode was awesome. It was less awesome that she did it to save Littlefinger, but that's okay. Plenty of time for her to stab him later. Not too shocked the Starks didn't reunite (and probably won't). Seems like they'll only see each other again at the end, if at all. I thought she was wearing black because her aunt just died and they were on their way to her funeral. Or it could be a twist wedding, though Sansa is technically still married... I like Ygritte, kinda bummed that they gave her that moment of sparing Gilly. Mostly because it feels like they're making sure we still like her for when she dies. I wonder if ep 9 will just be stories not touched on in this one. Feels like a lot of stuff is building all at once. Where is Stannis going? Are they gonna hit King's Landing? That would help a possible Tyrion escape. Or are they gonna save Castle Black (which makes more sense because they'd be at King's Landing fairly quickly)? Is Jon Snow ever gonna punch that smarmy guy who is in charge? Is Arya destined to just be a psycho? With the reward gone, where will the Hound find his next chicken? Are they gonna run into Pod and Brienne and form a band? Is Dany gonna go psycho-queen now that her voice of reason is gone? Mukip posted:Alright, so they're devastating warriors to have around if you need to raid a fishing village. They sound like such posers. The real secret as to why the Iron Islanders are allowed to keep their little kingdom is because they are truly pathetic and crushing them periodically helps keep all the soldiers trained. They are the shittiest raiders ever. They took empty castles while their full garrisons were out fighting real wars, and the minute any resistance came, they bolted. Xealot posted:At the very least, this should piss Dorne off pretty severely. I'd love to see Ellaria Sand put the Mountain down next week if he somehow didn't die already. It'd suck if Oberyn's death means literally nothing; instigating Dorne's renewed antagonism of the Lannisters would be a great compromise. The trouble I'd have with Dorne getting mad is that Oberryn loving volunteered for the fight, and then only lost because he didn't finish it properly. They'll still be mad, but it's hardly a legitimate grievance. Like that has ever ever mattered Bobo the Red fucked around with this message at 11:35 on Jun 2, 2014 |
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Jun 2, 2014 11:33
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People complain about the books because other people don't read the loving OP, and post about the books all the loving time in these threads. How is anyone supposed to know if "Oh boy are you in for a surprise" is bullshit or not?pigdog posted:Not for long, she's soon to be a widow and free to remarry. You shut your mouth
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Jun 2, 2014 12:13
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This show had a guy killed by having a rat driven mad with fear chew its way through a guy's chest. It's brutal, guys.Max posted:It's been pointed out before, but my feeling on Tywin is that he has always been a very intelligent man and strategist, but a completely terrible judge of talent and character. When people fall within the definitions of their role, he is usually pretty spot on. But the moment people start breaking the mould, he falls short. He has never taken Tyrion's intelligence seriously beyond giving him the position of Hand temporarily, but very quickly relegated him to the master of coin once he came back. He was blindsided by Robb's original maneuvers since he fully expected a rookie commander to gently caress up on the battlefield, and again never took Tyrion's feelings towards him into account when manipulating him in the court case. He mostly expects people to act rationally, and that's his blindspot. As much as Tywin hates Tyrion, he definitely respects him. Hand of the King, especially with a young king, is a position of immense power, and that appointment is a testament to just how much he does respect Tyrion's skills. I think Tywin is okay with Tyrion if he isn't around Tyrion, which is why as soon as he came back to King's Landing, he started shunting him off to the side (although honestly, Master of Coin is still pretty important). He also hosed up with Tyrion's temperament in the trial because he has a hard time thinking of him as someone who loves, because he mostly hates thinking about him at all. If anything, I'd say Tyrion is his big blind spot. The issue with Robb is that he had every reason to think Robb would be doing foolish things, since he was green and young. Since he never faced him himself, he could only learn from stories, and by the time that happened, he'd lost the advantage. But he did address the Robb problem eventually....
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Jun 2, 2014 16:48
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The most shocking thing I learned from this thread is that large numbers of people like Daenerys. Arya I get, because she's becoming an icecold killer, but Dany? She got gifted dragons and armies, and talks non-ironically about "the usurper" when her dumb family stormed into Westeros with a huge deus ex machina fairly recently and hosed everything up (and legalized regal incest), and about her brother's claim, even though her brother was an idiot she doesn't even like. At least she could acknowledge that under the old Targaryen rules, her only shot at the throne would've been on his lap. And now she's sent off the only guy who keeps her from doing insane things. Gonna go great! Maybe Tyrion can go meet up with her and teach her dragons what Cersei looks like. Only way they redeem those things is if one of them eats her.
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Jun 2, 2014 17:04
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hiddenmovement posted:Wait, isn't Cersei's daughter being held by Oberyn's people? What's to stop them from deciding they aren't happy with the whole skull crushing business and lopping the princess's head off? Well, it would be high treason (she's the king's sister). It would also be loving twisted (she's a little girl, and not even the Lannisters killed the girl they had captive), and if his family respects Oberryn, they are likely also not psychos. It also comes down to Oberryn dying due to his own drat choices. He chose to fight, he chose to drag it out, and he chose to let his guard down. Hate the Lannisters all you want, Oberryn dying is almost entirely on Oberryn (though the Dornish weren't actually there to see that). Relations with Dorne are likely hosed, and if the Lannisters are lucky, all they'll do is secede, but I don't see them killing her and sending her head back. Honestly, they might even just send her back because keeping her as a hostage is fairly distasteful. Monoliths posted:Haven't seen anyone mention it yet, so maybe I'm just a clueless babby, but that was Winterfell the happy Bolton family were headed toward, right? Yeah. They're gonna clear all that smoke out. It just looks better for the Warden of the North to be ruling from Winterfell (not that I see the Northmen bending the knee easily). The Atomic Man-Boy posted:I'm surprised no one else noticed that Tyrion told Oberyn to wear a helmet just before he went in. Other people did notice and commented on it pages back: Regy Rusty posted:Also I like how Tyrion was like "you could at least wear a helmet" and then Oberyn dies from getting his head bashed in
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Jun 2, 2014 18:03
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I love that Cersei is the only Lannister child who is legally not a Kingslayer, even though Tyrion didn't do his, and Jaime's deserved it hard.hiddenmovement posted:Well I don't really care that much about prince fancy pants it was just that not only did their prince die during what was essentially a diplomatic visit, he died a particularly gruesome, insulting death, and the mountain admitted proudly and publicly that he'd raped and murdered Oberyn's sister. The logical outcome is hosed relations, and considering how many enemies the Lannisters have, possibly a military alliance with one of those enemies. That would quell all the people who think the prince died for nothing as well. I mean, we've seen tons of characters who were openly disgusted with the poo poo Joffrey pulled. Yes, there are psychos, that doesn't mean everyone is one, or are even okay with the ones who are. Oberryn could've been lying and Mycella is secretly being held in a torture dungeon, but it is possible his family is actually decent, since he seemed to be. They're definitely going to be mad, and may declare war, but that doesn't mean Mycella comes home in a few hundred boxes. Blazing Ownager posted:She still has Barriston. He's also a voice of reason, perhaps even more so. If something happens to him now, though, she's up poo poo creek without a paddle. She doesn't listen to him or trust him to nearly the same extent (she listened to Jorah about not killing dudes, she ignored Selmy), and is now less likely to be willing to listen to anyone, especially someone from Westeros. Lumberjack Bonanza posted:To be fair, Aegon conquered Westeros centuries before the time of the series and is responsible for uniting most of Westeros, which would have pettily fought war after war over bullshit had he not done so. The invasion also paved the way for the Tyrells to become the powerful family that they are, and helped make the Ironborn the hilariously stupid assholes that they are. Well, validating the Ironborn is not a positive mark for anyone. The usurper was also a positive force for Westeros. The Mad King was burning dudes left and right. Kinda like someone we know who is trying to be king right now, actually. Seriously, how the gently caress can anyone root for Stannis?
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Jun 2, 2014 18:54
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bob holness paradox posted:"Elia of Dorne. You raped her, you murdered her. You killed her children" Joffrey Baratheon killed lots of people, including children, yes. He was a psycho. But the Lannisters didn't kill the noble child they held (and, in fact, made sure Joffrey didn't do it either). Tywin probably did order the deaths of the Targaryen grandchildren, because alive they were far too dangerous (though since he didn't get the king's actual children, I'm not sure there was a point). The violence the Mountain employed in the process was likely "his own way of doing things", and honestly, killing and raping Elia was probably the Mountain being the Mountain, since she didn't need to die, not being a Targaryen. The Lannisters did not kill any kids out of spite, even after both sons were taken prisoner, and the pretty one was maimed, and they are the ones everyone thinks of as vicious cunts. I really doubt Dorne will get in on it. Lumberjack Bonanza posted:No, he didn't validate them, he crushed them and sent them back to their dumb island to go be dumb fucks. I'd wager they're so useless now because Aegon killed everyone who knew how to conquer anything. Rightful kings aren't kinslaying jerks. If it comes down to Stannis vs Dany to decide who will be the champion of fire, I might legit have to root for the Whitewalkers. ChuckDeNomolos posted:Better example is the first episode, where she has her brother toss a child out of a window. I always read that scene as Jaime deciding to do it, and Cersei almost being shocked. I had forgotten about it, but they had a valid reason to want to kill Bran: if they get caught red handed, they both lose their heads. That doesn't make it okay, but it doesn't count as gratuitous child killing. Bobo the Red fucked around with this message at 19:22 on Jun 2, 2014 |
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Jun 2, 2014 19:16
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Yorkshire Tea posted:But the Dornish already hate the living poo poo out of the Lannisters. The guy who brokered the original deal with them is going to be executed and Oberyn's already dead. Basically what I'm saying is that they've got something to get angry over and all of the goodwill that was built up by the Lannisters disappears with Tyrion's head. Tyrion's head will disappear with the rest of his body onto a boat  come on Varys, I need this
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Jun 2, 2014 19:57
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ZorajitZorajit posted:Y'know... I'm not sure why I'm still watching. This whole season has been about making the likable characters into insufferable monsters. Tyrion's gotten all broody, Sansa and Bran are barely functional lunatics, Jon's a jerk, Dany's not struggling and is acting just as awful as everyone else. I get it, that's the point, but why make such evil people so utterly anti-entertaining to watch? If this was a historical about real people that could make sense I guess. Tyrion is broody because he's godamn jail with a death sentence on his head, and Sansa hasn't done anything that even resembles lunacy. This last episode was really the first time we saw her do anything, what she did was perfectly sane given what she knows (though we as watchers probably know she should have let Littlefinger fly, since he's why her family is dead). Jon is a jerk? What? Bran is kinda crazy, but he does literally have insane visions and powers he knows very little about.
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Jun 2, 2014 22:51
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The Mountain is probably not alive. Or won't be much longer. With regards to Littlefinger: he told Sansa he killed Joffrey as revenge... but we (and he) know that Joffrey had little to do with it. It was essentially all Tywin and Roose. So I guess it was just another step in his chaos sowing. And now he will try to leverage the Vale into action... Of course, the person ultimately responsible for Cat's death is Littlefinger. I wonder if he would admit that to himself...
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Jun 2, 2014 23:34
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Lumberjack Bonanza posted:Well, you don't need to kill a person to get revenge on them really. I think killing Joffrey is working out just fine as far as getting back at Tywin is concerned. No More Heroes posted:Literally every major character death has been motivated by vengeance with the catalyst being Jamie and Cersei banging and the subsequent investigation into Roberts and their children. Littlefinger essentially chose which outcome Jon Arryn's investigation would have. Had Jon Arryn been allowed to continue, he would have told Robert, ending Cersei, Jaime, and the kids rather abruptly (possibly triggering a war with Casterly Rock, though Tywin is a pragmatist), or he would've hosed up like Ned/ been killed by Cersei (possibly through Pycelle) anyway, which might have caused similar/identical events to unfold. But in that first scenario, Ned stays with Cat in the North, and there's not as much chaos, so he made sure Jon Arryn died, and in doing that, he caused pretty much every death in this story. KamikazePotato posted:I'm actually going to call BS on the 'there are no characters left to root for' notion. We've got: Weird to omit Sansa, the only major character who has not killed a single person (I think?). Also Arya's first kill was a random kid. Kinda harsh to say he deserved it for the crime of being behind her. gently caress Theon. There's no redemption from what he did. Jaime's biggest crime is what he did to Bran / killing his plot-device cousin and making subtle references to it; gently caress him too (but god he's dreamy) The Hound loving rules, and remains the only person besides Tyrion to stick his neck out for the Starks (and survive). Don't kill them, GRRM, you bastard WeLandedOnTheMoon! posted:"Hubris never wins" Renly died because he thought he was so special that the rules of succession shouldn't apply to him. Ned's wasn't quite hubris, though his adherence to his honor was certainly tied to pride, and is definitely why his head left his body. Vanderdeath posted:The Lord of Light literally brought a dude back to life several times. Screw the Seven, I'd sign up for some of that immortality poo poo in a heartbeat. Proof that Stannis knows what's up. The funny thing is, Melisandre probably can't do it. She was shocked in a way jealous way of what Thoros did. But yeah, I hate Stannis and everyone on Dragonstone who isn't Davos or that princess, but drat if the Lord of Light doesn't deliver (even if apparently the early stuff is all smoke and mirrors. Why do they need that when they have the only actually active god out there?). OneThousandMonkeys posted:Given that the ironborn religion holds raiding and pillaging as pious, it is probably best that they be exterminated. The Ironborn having power, and House Bolton being trusted will never make sense. Oh, our banner is a dude with his skin cutoff, don't worry about it/ Oh, our whole religion, code, even our house words suggest all we wanna do is rape and pillage you guys. Bobo the Red fucked around with this message at 03:02 on Jun 3, 2014 |
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Jun 3, 2014 02:56
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xcore posted:My argumentative snarky response to this is: "Yeah, but they allow incest and it's only her birthright because the Targs took control by force. She has as much right to the Westeros throne as she does to the Miraneese throne now." She has no right to the Westeros throne, because the family that theoretically gave her that right also made it boys-only
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Jun 3, 2014 04:02
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Vehementi posted:Sure, just saying, being coerced into a false confession via threats of murder against your family by a conspiracy of murderers & torturers and then having an obviously crazy and evil psychopath order your execution is why Ned lost his head. Not his honor or pride or something. To be fair, as far as Joffrey goes, of all the people he killed, Ned is the only one who actually was, effectively, trying to kill him (yeah I know he wanted to warn Cersei to run away, but that would still have been a grim fate). Hell, Joffrey was gonna be killed due to a crime he had nothing to do with. And Ned was okay with that (at least okay enough to have it be a possible outcome), so why should Joffrey not kill him? I don't think anyone exclusively or even primarily blames Ned, but to act like his pride and honor didn't lead him to his fate is a bit ridiculous. He knew who he was up against, and if he didn't, he should have. gently caress, Littlefinger said to his face not to trust him. Then what did Ned do? Vehementi posted:No those people both died because they were assassinated by severely evil people. Renly was straight up guilty of treason. The shadow assassin was sketchy, because he had a right to a trial, and since he was Stannis's brother, it should have been handled differently, but his death was very much the direct expected consequence of his pride. Jerusalem posted:The Targs ruled because they were "dragons" and she's the mother of dragons therefore by Targ rules she the rightful ruler of Westeros! Oh, absolutely, might is right is fine. But then it's not about her birthright as princess, it's about having a big loving army (and dragons, which are tied to her blood, but she didn't get from her recent family). And for might to make her Queen of Westeros, she'd have to actually go there and try to take it! Alberto Basalm posted:The Greyjoys actually mention the medieval Right of Conquest in season 2 - which is exactly this idea. That the strongest ruler has the divine right to rule. If the Greyjoys brought it up, it's probably wrong. Bobo the Red fucked around with this message at 05:17 on Jun 3, 2014 |
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Jun 3, 2014 05:09
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Varys will get Tyrion out because Varys hasn't done anything this whole season except testify and feel bad. He won't watch another chill dude die; at some point, evasive pragmatism becomes resignation to the chaos. Or, drat, maybe loving Tywin will do it. He won't pardon him publicly, but he'll let Tyrion go to keep Jaime pliable. He can't afford to actually kill him (though his hateboner may blind him to that). Windfall posted:Ned was not the cause of his own death. This also serves as a really good summation of why Littlefinger is the reason Cat (and everyone else) is dead. This whole thing came from him, in a way that's hard to see when watching the episodes piecemeal. If anyone has a big, wrathful death coming to him, it's Petyr Baelish. I really hope it's Sansa that sends him on his merry way. Bobo the Red fucked around with this message at 06:22 on Jun 3, 2014 |
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Jun 3, 2014 06:19
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BETRAYAL AT KNIFEPOINT
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Windfall posted:I doubt Baelish played any part in the Red Wedding and killing his beloved Cat since he turned on the Lannisters right after it, going as far as killing Joffrey. That doesn't mean he won't catch any blame for it once Arya bumps into him in a few minutes and remembers who she saw him meeting with last. He didn't plan it, and obviously would not have, but the fact that it happened is definitely on him. The whole war is. Every casualty is on him, Cat just happens to be the only one he might care about. I just wonder if he's willing to face that. precision posted:So even accounting for GRRM "realism" or "justice" or whatever you call it, who can we use metatextual knowledge to reasonably assume is safe for a while? I don't follow. None of the Lannister children have had a completed arc. Cersei has not come crashing down from her mighty place of insanity; Jaime has not been redeemed, and Tyrion has not stepped out of the shadow. Brienne hasn't completed her mission, and Theon has been in a pit longer than he ever was anywhere else. Yara didn't do anything yet. The story may need Varys, as the unseen force that keeps everything from falling apart, but why on earth does it need Grey Worm and Daario? Even Jorah and Sam don't have much going for them (where the hell is Jorah even gonna go?) The Hound is also somewhat incomplete, though that doesn't mean he can't die (please no). Gendry dying now wouldn't track (and no one knows who or where he is). I kinda hope he just stays gone; a Baratheon bastard is rapidly losing any purpose. Davos, Melisandre, and Tywin all do have possible deaths soon. Well, Davos OR Melisandre (or both in a trade), depending on which way Stannis breaks. Tywin is just too much of a force, Cersei, Jaime, Tommen, pretty much all of King's Landing character development is on hold until he clears out, and there's probably only one way that happens. Bobo the Red fucked around with this message at 07:29 on Jun 3, 2014 |
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Jun 3, 2014 07:13
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Doltos posted:Weddings are binding, even if they do lead to some crazy stuff. I mean Joffrey chopped off Ned's head but he still was married to his daughter. Joffrey was definitely not married to Ned's daughter. Steve2911 posted:a) A wedding is a legally and religiously binding contract in that world, and only a big rear end pimp Maester like Pycelle can annul it. Maesters aren't religious; septons are. Maesters are like science/healer dudes; I can't see them having the ability to annul a wedding (though I guess they have been using Pycelle as the master of ceremonies pretty often so who knows). The guy who married Joffrey and Margarine and crowned Tommen was the High Septon though (Pycelle is the Grand Maester). Woden posted:Followers of the lord of light get the raise dead spell so there's always hope. Sadly, they don't get a "repair caved in skull" spell. Beric kept every wound that killed him, not sure what exactly would come back if they tried it with Oberryn. SmellOfPetroleum posted:Also I want to see a battle at The Bloody Gate. That poo poo has gravitas. It's come up enough that it'd be a shame not to use it in a cool way. I think only Stannis is stubborn enough to attack the Bloody Gate, and even he would be stupid to try it. Clearly they need to get Bronn. Bobo the Red fucked around with this message at 19:47 on Jun 3, 2014 |
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Jun 3, 2014 19:42
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Stannis had a shot at being a decent king, but he sold out. You know he knows that burning those people was wrong. Westeros has allowed 3 religions to coexist for centuries (possibly millennia). But he did it for power, and sold any semblance of being a just king out the window. He can't win without Melisandre, and the price he paid was his honor (and his family's lives). That's why Davos challenges all those decisions: that honor is why he loves Stannis.ironlung posted:Yes. He fought against Robert and was given a royal pardon by Robert because he's an honorable badass and at the time was the best fighter in Westeros. The person you quoted is wrong. the fact that he defended the Mad King should tell you all you need to know about listening to his advice. What will he do if dany goes that route? Nothing. gently caress Selmy, badass or not. Jaime Lannister had more honor, and Jaime Lannister tried to kill a kid. Alberto Basalm posted:I keep expecting that to happen since that's what was implied in last season's finale. Also, this is a technical? lore spoiler because it was only really referenced in the HBO extras "The History of Westeros" (I'm not a book reader) Stannis' entire island has only one resource: dragonglass, which is what Sam killed the White Walker with. So it would make sense for Stannis to go north with a badass army of zombie killers. Does Stannis know that dragonglass can be used that way? Because otherwise, I can't imagine he'd bring a bunch with him monster on a stick posted:Except he kidnapped Ned's sister, which started this whole mess. See, the reason I think it was kidnap was that Ned went with it. If she went willingly, and told the Starks, they might have handled it differently. Though I guess Ned went to war for the murders, not the "kidnap". I do hope Dany tries to be hit up the Starks for help, and they go, "uh, your dad killed our uncle and grandfather, gently caress off with your claim." Bobo the Red fucked around with this message at 05:46 on Jun 4, 2014 |
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Jun 4, 2014 05:36
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Lumberjack Bonanza posted:I bet he's going to send Davos up to check out how poo poo's going at the Wall at some point, then Sam will have connected the dots for them because reading and thinking is really all he's good for. I was actually assuming they were all on their way up there right now (we last saw them preparing for a journey, and the Wall needs some serious help) mclast posted:The Lannisters are reliably untrustworthy. See, that's the thing, are they? The incest thing is a deception, yes, but there's literally no out from that: any acknowledgment means Cersei, Jaime, Tommen and Mycella are dead. They absolutely must act like Tommen is the one that belongs on that throne, and in that frame, they're fairly reliable. Cersei had nothing to do with the death of Jon Arryn. She hosed over Ned because she absolutely had to (and as someone explained earlier, from her perspective, Ned came to King's Landing and started going after her family), and the deception was actually all on Littlefinger. Robb was straight up their enemy, and, on Tywin's part, no deception was involved; Tywin was given an opportunity to solve a problem, and he took it. Tywin and Tyrion both tried to form alliances when acting as Hand, and as far as we know, kept (and will keep) to those. Tywin did betray the Mad King, as did Jaime, but so did Stannis, Renly, and the former Warden of the North, all men claimed to be far more honorable. The only one who is untrustworthy is Cersei, mostly because she's kinda loving nuts, and turns on people she really doesn't need to. She's also the reason why all of the deception about the king is necessary. I don't think the Lannisters are untrustworthy. What they are is loving ruthless. They will pay you back, so you better hope what they owe you is gold or good will. Bobo the Red fucked around with this message at 06:11 on Jun 4, 2014 |
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Jun 4, 2014 05:48
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DOCTOR ZIMBARDO posted:He's a sort of brooding middle-aged guy who keeps accomplishing incredible things only to see them taken away from him for one reason or another but rarely if ever as a consequence of his own actions. He marries the right person but can't bear a son. He wins difficult battles in the Rebellion and gets a dank lovely castle. He brings the noise at Blackwater only to lose through simultaneously Tyrell betrayal, Robb falling back, and Tyrion finding the Red Keep's WMD stockpile. So he's a bitter guy. He even falls for Mel only to learn she only ever wanted his Royal Fluids. So he's struck a deal with God to save the world and purge a lot of heretics if it means getting what he wants. The Tyrells didn't betray him. They were with Renly, and Stannis assassinated him (and Loras was the only one who actually cared enough about Renly to connect those incredibly obvious dots). The Tyrells took their ball and went home, where the phone just happened to be ringing. Also, if he needed Robb, it hardly counts as bringing the noise. That's the kinda funny thing, badass or not, Stannis, Renly, or Robb wouldn't have stood a loving chance against the Lannisters 1 on 1. precision posted:Also anyone else in this show would have drowned a deformed daughter, not let her live and actually care for her. She looks like she has a skin disease. She could have gotten it recently. Westeros is hosed but there are probably tons of people not drowning their kids at the first sign of illness. Bobo the Red fucked around with this message at 06:33 on Jun 4, 2014 |
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Jun 4, 2014 06:31
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precision posted:I may be wrong but I thought the show said she was born that way? And also, I was meaning "royalty". Like, Tywin let Tyrion live, but hates the poo poo out of him. Stannis likes his daughter. That puts him pretty high up on the list for me. Tywin hates Tyrion because his wife died. He is far too pragmatic for the dwarf thing to really have stood in the way. Stannis likes his daughter... which he should do. He also murdered his brother, burned his brother in law (and countless others), cheated on his wife, and may be about to sacrifice said daughter he loves, all for his own gain. Really great dude. Sansa would be the best queen (only remaining sane Stark, married to Tyrion). Also Jaime is decent now? Saying that, and then mentioning Bran in the same sentence is funny. I feel like Dany is gonna get worse. She's not really decent; she means well, but so did the Mad King. so does Melisandre (seemingly). Arya is a monster, and is only gonna get worse; the Kingsguard is far too peaceful for her.
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Jun 4, 2014 06:44
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Speleothing posted:Robb kept trying to get the Lannisters into open battle because he could take them if they would let him. Because there was a southern front that had to be fought over too.
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Jun 4, 2014 06:46
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precision posted:Yes, Jaime is a pretty decent guy now. He sure did some awful things, but if you don't think he's a pretty decent guy these days between his chats with Tyrion and his downright suicidally noble treatment of Brienne I dunno what to tell you. Dude has grown up a bit. I love Tyrion, but you can't count that as Jaime being decent. That's his brother, and probably the only person out there that truly cares for him. Cersei's love is more that she loves herself and Jaime is as close as she can come to loving herself/ her love is at best, a tainted love (she was wild for godamn Joffrey of all people). Why the hell wouldn't Jaime chat him up? Jaime was decent to Brienne, yes (though the only time it was suicidally dangerous was when he was essentially suicidal from sickness and depression from the severed hand). He also tried to murder a 10 year old, as well as brutally killing all of Ned's men in the streets of King's Landing (remember, this was before there was a war; Jaime straight up committed murder). He's not doing lovely things now, but could just be a lack of opportunity, since he's at home with his twisted as family. He still has a long path to be anywhere near redeemed. I will wait until he has to make a hard choice (harder than getting mean looks from Cersei for talking to Tyrion). Jerusalem posted:Even if you take the intent of the scriptwriter and the source material into consideration, he still banged his sister next to the corpse of their dead kid. If ever there was a corpse that deserved disrespect, it was Joffrey. Hell, if he'd been into sex, it's something he would've been proud to try next to the next Stark corpse he got. It was a very fitting tribute. Bobo the Red fucked around with this message at 09:06 on Jun 4, 2014 |
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Jun 4, 2014 09:04
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Having the next episode in the North makes sense. The wildlings have been coming for ages, and Stannis is probably also going there. poo poo's gonna get real! Pretty sure Ygritte is gonna die, most likely really close to Jon. Ugh. She's the best. Maybe Stannis will use all the charisma he's been saving up to get the wildlings on his side. It seems like a tragic waste to lose all those lovely wildlings. oswald ownenstein posted:I don't know because I've only read through the first half of book 1 but everyone is saying ADWD was really slow and set in the same timeline as AFFC. Based on all the threads that are set up right now it seems like a sudden conclusion would feel rushed and unsatisfying. I really want Dany's march on Westeros to end up the way the Greyjoys do: enormous pomp, very little circumstance. Westeros ain't got time for that poo poo, there's a real war a-coming.
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Jun 4, 2014 17:37
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PantsBandit posted:Even with Stannis the wall doesn't really have a chance of holding, right? The wildling army is pretty drat big. Well, if they closed the tunnels, it might. CSM posted:Except for trying to kill his kid? Ned didn't know that. CSM posted:The reason Catelyn Tully and Robb Stark are dead is because they embarked on a difficult war and then proceeded to alienate all their allies. They got killed for being dumbasses. Just like their father. None of the Starks were particularly savvy to the ways of the rest of the kingdom, but that's a bit much. Robb did gently caress up with the Freys, and Cat hosed up the whole Karstark situation, but Bolton straight up betrayed them. And the point I was making is that without Littlefinger's plot, they could have all remained happy too-honorable living Northerners. Which makes Littlefinger the ultimate reason Cat is dead. Bobo the Red fucked around with this message at 18:15 on Jun 4, 2014 |
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Jun 4, 2014 18:10
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oswald ownenstein posted:Yeah and Cersei just tore it up. Which is what Renly said would happen. "She won't care." She did care. that was the problem. What Ned was doing was literally going to get her and her kids killed. She's super hosed up, and evil as gently caress, but in season 1 she was fighting to keep her kids alive. She was fine with sending Ned to the Wall, because that would've ended the threat just as well. She didn't actually hate him (as opposed to someone like Tyrion), he was just a very real threat.
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Jun 4, 2014 20:20
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bobkatt013 posted:He did offer her a way out. That she could escape with their lives, she just did not want to leave. A way out that would have her on the run from the entire country with 3 kids. Ned's option was a loving joke, he just didn't realize he was telling one. We saw how loving bad Rob B wanted to assassinate Dany, what resources was he going to spare in catching the wife who cuckolded him and the incest abominations that resulted from it? Varys even told Ned that his decision to warn Cersei is why Robert died. And it's true, because at that point, she absolutely had to do it. No way Robert believes her over Ned. And once he was dead, her kids had to be the rightful heirs, because, again, if they weren't, they were all dead. No poo poo she was gonna ignore that letter. monster on a stick posted:It seems pretty clear that one of the big reasons the Wildlings are moving south is because of the White Walkers, and they hate the Night's Watch because one of their standing orders is to prevent the Wildlings from doing that. So basically they are screwed unless they either hold Castle Black and open up the tunnel, or the NW opens up the tunnel and lets them in which isn't going to happen. Even Jon, who tagged along with them and thus would be the most sympathetic, isn't proposing that. Yeah, they've mentioned the previous attempts at breaking through the wildlings made, but this one is a bit different. The're not just raiding, they're trying run, as far and as fast as possible (though they are incredibly slow). I think the idea is that they can break through the tunnel (they have giants), not that it needs to be opened. That's why Jon Snow wants to close it with ice and rocks, essentially making it solid Wall. The guys that scaled the Wall are there to distract and flank them, not beat them outright. Assuming Stannis shows up, it's gonna be a hell of a battle. Of course, maybe the whitewalkers get them first (though that puts the WW really loving close to the Wall). Bobo the Red fucked around with this message at 21:07 on Jun 4, 2014 |
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Jun 4, 2014 20:56
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bubblelubble posted:Question: Does Sansa know of Littlefinger's involvement in her father's death? Well, she just saved him from a flight, I'm guessing no
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Jun 5, 2014 04:00
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Kempo posted:Two things I have learnt today: Jorah gets credit for being the only character willing to tell Dany she's being a loving psycho. Plus, likable characters are few and far between in the desert, so we take what we can get. EccoRaven posted:"Your daughter is coming with us, because I need to sacrifice her to make the Lord of Light happy" - things Melisandre definitely totally said in that scene, nothing is ambiguous at all, there. Yeah, it's really hard to imagine why someone who is manipulating a guy into doing a bunch of evil poo poo he doesn't really wanna do wouldn't immediately tell him how juicy and flammable his daughter is. Bobo the Red fucked around with this message at 17:44 on Jun 5, 2014 |
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Jun 5, 2014 17:41
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Macaluso posted:That's not totally true. Barristan also tried to tell her that crucifying all the masters was a bad idea. She didn't listen of course gently caress Barristan.
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Jun 5, 2014 18:02
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Holy poo poo you guys are loving assholes. Stop talking about the books. Especially about when major events happen.
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Jun 5, 2014 18:46
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PantsBandit posted:There's been literally nothing since this conversation started that could be considered a spoiler but I do agree it should stop because it would be all too easy for someone to let one slip. That's exactly why we keep telling people not to talk about the books. Some people can do it without spoiling, but someone who can't will join in, probably on accident, and spoil poo poo. Please, be cool. There are apparently 3 other threads you can talk book stuff in. In this thread, if you can't answer something based on show info (and the HBO companion materials, I guess), then the answer is "We don't know". If someone asks about the books, ignore them, PM them, or point them to another thread.
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Jun 5, 2014 19:23
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EccoRaven posted:If just three leeches can kill three pretenders, why wouldn't they just put a leech on Shireen every month or so? I feel like the leeches fall in the category of poo poo Mel does for show. There was a decent chance those guys were gonna bite it regardless. Except Balon (who is notably still alive), because seriously, why would anyone besides Stannis care? Bobo the Red fucked around with this message at 19:59 on Jun 5, 2014 |
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Jun 5, 2014 19:56
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Yeah, Yara let Theon grope her for wayyyy too longPantsBandit posted:I looked up Yara on google and found an article stating that they may have offered the part to Theon's real-life sister who is also an actress. But apparently after they told her what it would entail she appropriately responded with no gross what the gently caress is wrong with you. His real life sister is famous singer Lily Allen Edit: apparently Alfie has said that her claims of being offered the job are false. Awkward on many levels. Bobo the Red fucked around with this message at 20:19 on Jun 5, 2014 |
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Jun 5, 2014 20:17
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Doltos posted:I know that one dude from earlier was irrationally complaining about the lack of realism in this show but really, who wouldn't have thrown an axe at a shirtless Ramsay from point blank range? The scene made no sense on either end: she shouldn't have let him free the dogs (and should've just knocked Theon out), but once the dogs were free, how the gently caress did she get out? Ramsay let her go? This season has mostly been great, except a few episodes had minor scenes like this one that just kinda baffled you.
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Jun 5, 2014 20:29
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Max posted:Serious question: What other scenes baffled you? The Mountain re-intro. The weird rape they never meant to be a rape. The background rapes at Craster's
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Jun 5, 2014 20:35
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4000 Dollar Suit posted:at very least she could've mercy killed Theon, now I'm thinking he's gonna kill her somehow. Him killing the only person in Westeros who still cares about him would be an appropriate fate. gently caress Theon. gently caress the Iron Islands. Balon is definitely gonna win the War of the 5 Kings. I mean, only 2 remain, and Stannis keeps actually doing things!
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Jun 5, 2014 20:57
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Stonefish posted:Stepping out of this thread due to too many people not knowing where the line is. Might come back after the season. If he needs another priestess, she could just loving say that. Not that we know for sure what Mel wants to do (or wants in general), but assuming Shireen is gonna be okay requires ignoring pretty much everything Melisandre has ever done on the show.
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Jun 5, 2014 23:24
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cock hero flux posted:Why are the wildlings even attacking Castle Black anyway? Even if they don't realize it's the only one that actually has dudes in it it's still the main one that would be the hardest to take and all they're trying to do is get past the Wall. Why don't they attack Castle Bumfuck that even in the glory days probably only had like 15 guys in it? Well, one of the castles is all the way on the east coast. That adds a lot of horizontal movement along the wall, and that movement can be negated pretty easily by closing up the tunnels. Castle Black, as the main keep, is the one that is most likely to resist closing its tunnel. Also they don't want to have the Night's Watch mostly unharmed at their backs.
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Jun 6, 2014 02:52
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Roose mentioned it in his Lion King speech to Ramsay last episode. The North is bigger than the rest of Westeros combined (and the areas of the gift, Wall, and beyong are bigger still, I think)
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Jun 6, 2014 06:20
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I'm hoping that the White Walkers have ice-shaping powers, and when they get to the wall, all they have to do is do a Moses and get it to move out of the way.
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Jun 6, 2014 08:21
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