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Trin Tragula posted:I think a much better way to go would be to explore the results you get by following a certain path through the game; follow the two characters who lost out, and then show what happens if you distribute your votes equally and nobody really wins. That'd bring the themes of the game out far more effectively. This is an interesting idea but I'm not sure I get it. Can you give an example? Also voting is now closed and I'll have the update ready this afternoon.
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Jul 14, 2014 15:27
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ThatPazuzu posted:This is an interesting idea but I'm not sure I get it. Can you give an example? I think the second part of what he's saying is Vote 1 - Dan wins, Linda Compromises, Tommy Loses; Vote 2 - Linda Wins, Tommy Compromises, Dan Loses; Vote 3 - Tommy Wins, Dan Compromises, Linda Loses; and repeat the pattern for all 9(?) votes. If voting is still open, Dan and Tommy. Linda, honey, look...My father is an artist, and he's talented as all get out, but he's never sold anything. Not for a long time, and not enough to live off of. Put down your paintbrush, pick up a school book, and teach your kid to read. Sure, maybe if your planet Earth didn't have only 10 hours in a day (gotta sleep those 8 hours) You'd have time to both paint and teach your kid, but well, them's the breaks.
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Jul 14, 2014 17:40
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 Dan won, meaning he's going to accept the job at Hardvesty. May Tynan look over our decision.  What's this?! That's right, there's no compromises this time. But Dan did get the majority of votes so we are going to take his path.  Tommy can't wait to show off how many words he know. Which he can do at his new school. By the way, there were no Ghost Journals this final time around.  You're right Linda, your art could have helped many people. Oh well.   (the camera swoops over his shoulder) It looks like it was a tough decision for Dan but it was rewarding in the end.  Unfortunately, there wasn't a real upside for Tommy.  Linda refuses to give up on her art, even if it does make her resent Dan.  So we get to see the results of the rest of our actions, starting with Dan's novel.  No. Way. I'm genuinely surprised Dan was able to churn out the great American novel with ghost goons behind the wheel. Was everyone else as lucky?  Like all children who like to draw when they're 5, Tommy transitioned into a lucrative art career. Like Linda never would.  It looks like the relationship between Dan and Linda isn't over after all. Even though it's not as passionate as it could be, they're happy. 
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Jul 14, 2014 18:28
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Those endings are all rather pleasant and seem totally unearned after the course of our playthrough.
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Jul 14, 2014 18:34
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Holy crap, the Goon-mind actually nailed the triple-crown on this one. Wow.
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Jul 14, 2014 18:35
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A few things to mention from the credits: Tynan is real. He's the game developer's friend and they have, as far as I can tell, the same relationship Dan and Tynan do. Kent Hudson, who doesn't have kids, interviewed many parents to see what it's like. Kent Hudson interviewed a single child for insight on how kids think. General Ironicus posted:Those endings are all rather pleasant and seem totally unearned after the course of our playthrough. I'm very surprised too. I guess we just had fairly even voting patern. This is why I think an alternate playthrough might be warranted.
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Jul 14, 2014 18:41
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Holy poo poo, we actually did good. Though personally, I believe that Dan's book was a success thanks to Tynan, and Tynan alone.
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Jul 14, 2014 18:41
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Broenheim posted:Holy poo poo, we actually did good. Though personally, I believe that Dan's book was a success thanks to Tynan, and Tynan alone. I also stand by my statement that Dan and Linda needed to sever.
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Jul 14, 2014 18:44
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General Ironicus posted:Those endings are all rather pleasant and seem totally unearned after the course of our playthrough. Yeah, I don't...really understand how our actions and choices led to this outcome.
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Jul 14, 2014 20:00
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This really, really, should've ended in divorce.
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Jul 14, 2014 20:47
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So what did everyone think of the game (or LP) as a whole? I think it's a very interesting concept that stumbles in execution. Being the central gameplay mechanic, it's disappointing how some chapters the options are either contrived or not balanced well so you only have one real option, like Linda's Grandma's funeral. Also, it seems like a few of the notes only really exist to pad out the game. However, I am also really fond of the art style in the game. The watercolor shadows and the unique character designs really stand out in my mind. I'm also a sucker for all those little changes that happen to the house as you progress.
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Jul 14, 2014 20:57
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Yeah, its got its fair share of flaws and I don't think its even close in really making you care about the characters and making you really feel a part of it like some of the great story-driven games do, (The family really just seems dysfunctional and needy in general and probably wouldn't end up as well as they do) but its overall a solid game and a honest effort and I do respect that aside from being a ghost the game's pretty grounded. When I played I got the same ending aside from Tommy, he ended up being a real milquetoast going nowhere in life which I thought he deserved. (I share Ironicus' sentiments of him.  )
Accordion Man fucked around with this message at 21:11 on Jul 14, 2014 |
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Jul 14, 2014 21:09
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Honestly, it's a mechanically awful game and it does a terrible job of getting you to like the characters. But, it could lead to more interesting stuff in the future, so I'm glad it got made.
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Jul 14, 2014 21:11
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Due to the paper-rock-scissors nature of the gameplay it makes the characters who lose seem like selfish assholes instead of well rounded people. The central mechanic seems to transparently be "This decision is +1 Dan, +.5 Linda, +0 Tommy. Tabulate totals at the endgame. Display cutscenes based on a list of totals." Because of this the crises seem pretty contrived. For example, Dan's publisher being mad that he has to go to a funeral. Or people mentioning how a day could be used for more than just doing a single activity, but the format of the game necessitates that Dan can only write a blurb for his novel and not spend 1 or 2 hours proofing Linda's press release for her gallery show. If a major draw of your game is that it's realistic and character driven, and then you have stuff like that, it definitely falls flat in execution. Regardless, it's an interesting idea, and I honestly don't know how you'd have a better execution to be honest. I'd be curious how playing on stealth mode would change things. I appreciate you playing through since it's not the sort of thing I'd normally touch.
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Jul 14, 2014 21:22
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A lot of the options just seemed outright better or worse, but the game looks just at the number of decisions you put into each person. Also, it's really disappointing that we got a everyone's happy, all is good ending when the game is trying to say that not everyone gets what they want. Dan gets an award winning book, Tommy is a successful comic book artist, and Dan and Linda's marriage become more fulfilling. The only "bad" thing that happened is that Linda doesn't get to paint more. It doesn't fit what the game was trying to say. Maybe that's just because we got lucky, but if I was playing the game instead of having goons dictate what I would do, I'd probably make like 2 or 3 different decisions. Overall, it's an interesting idea, but the execution is pretty flawed. The only character I cared about was Tynan. On the LP side, I think it was very well done. It let the game do most of the talking without much of an interruption. Good luck on your next one.
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Jul 14, 2014 21:35
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Stealth mode doesn't change too much. It adds two new features: light flickering and spooking. When possessing a light source, you can cause it to flicker, making someone nearby check it out. It's useful for, say, getting Dan away from his desk so you can read stuff on it. And spooking people is when they see more than a glance of you, they get freaked out and you lose any ability to influence them that chapter. It adds some tension and forces you to pay attention but it isn't too much of a difference. If I LPed this on Stealth mode it would probably only take me longer and make me start an update or two with "uh, Tommy spotted me so you can't vote for him." Broenheim posted:On the LP side, I think it was very well done. It let the game do most of the talking without much of an interruption. Good luck on your next one. Thank you. This is my first LP so I don't really know what I'm doing right or wrong and just want to improve. 
ThatPazuzu fucked around with this message at 21:38 on Jul 14, 2014 |
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Jul 14, 2014 21:35
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Thanks for the interesting LP!  I'd like to see perhaps some video footage of mechanics like switching from light source to light source, spooking people etc, just to see what it's like.
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Jul 14, 2014 21:45
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I honestly liked the game, and it did a fair job of making me interested in Dan's and Linda's dilemmas. Tommy felt like more of an obstacle than a character in his own right. I skipped all the ghost letters because I was only interested in the Kaplan family; maybe sometime I'll go back and read them. Probably some of the decisions could have been less lopsided. There was usually one option I found easy to dismiss. It could have been interesting if Linda's options had offered an alternative source of income for the family, because then Dan's options would have been more selfish. The LP was very good! Thanks for your work.
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Jul 14, 2014 22:20
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When I've played the game, it's always ended so that someone always loses out, creating the theme that you have to make sacrifices to achieve things. Either Dan has to pass on his dreams to support his wife and son, or the marriage breaks up as Tommy and Dan go on to greater things, or Linda and Dan have a great and fulfilling relationship but at the cost of neglecting their son and not giving him the start in life that he needs to accomplish anything. That's a useful and insightful statement. Now that I know it's possible to balance things just so and make everyone happy, my respect for the game has gone way, way down.
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Jul 15, 2014 00:46
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Those ghost letters were pretty useless in the long run. I think those were the biggest low point for the game. They make this effort make this ghostly apparition and then just half-assedly place this other people's stories around.
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Jul 15, 2014 00:59
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For some reason, I almost feel disappointed by the ending. Should things really have gone that well just because we were fairly even about our main choices/compromises? And I'm just blown away that Dan's novel did that well - guess he didn't actually need to have a steady job after all! I guess it shows the resilience of a family just as long as each member gets a bone thrown to them every so often...  The game itself wasn't bad. I like the concept, but it sometimes falls short for me. There are some choices that just seem stupid to take (let's encourage Dan's burgeoning alcoholism!) and I agree with Kaishai that it would've been interesting if Linda could have been a potential money earner - something that I kept hoping would happen and I guess wasn't actually an option even if you support Linda's art. Other than showing that our light ghost has affected others in the past, I'm not sure what the point of the other letters were and I feel they're a distraction from the main story. I probably wouldn't play it even on sale, but I think it's definitely an interesting game to show off. ThatPazuzu, for all that, I'm glad you LPed the game and I enjoyed seeing how our decisions affected the outcome. I recall you saying that the events change around each playthrough. Are there also events we haven't seen yet, or have we seen all that the game has to offer so far as decisions go? I'm now unsure I would like a second playthrough if all that happens is some switch around, unless there were gimmicks attached a la the Long Live the Queen LP. Your own feelings on how much you'll like the game after another round is important too.
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Jul 15, 2014 02:17
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We did good?  That ending makes the game almost seem non-consequential. "Dan's an awesome author and his book rules. It makes enough money that Linda can afford to go back to painting! And Tommy figures out how to read eventually." Great LP of a good game.
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Jul 15, 2014 02:34
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I don't think I'll do alternate playthroughs because all I can really do is show everyone's good-okay-bad outcomes. Also, I might attempt to make a short video to show off the flickering and voice acting but don't hold your breath: My computer is slowly exploding right now and it might not be able to handle playing a game and capturing decent video. There's no other chapters that we haven't seen. Except for the first and last they're semi-randomized. I say semi-randomized because even though they aren't set in stone, some have a tendency to be towards the beginning or end. There's no reason to buy it now that you've seen a game but I'd still recommend it to a friend when it's on sale.
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Jul 15, 2014 02:44
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I really think the takeaway from the ending is what we were saying was right: Linda's ideas are basically poo poo/selfish/bad at the time (the real good ending is divorce and marrying Tynan). Tommy was a little bro but doesn't need the stars to align for his life to be okay. The whole "Dan writes a super A++ epic of American Lit" thing is kinda dumb. The idea behind the story was for him to come here to get his work done (also not be a shitlord)and that is basically how our decisions were made. His book should have been good in the end but reasonably good. The ease of getting this prefect ending isn't too surprising since were are a magic light ghost, but knowing the right things to do and actually getting off your rear end and doing them is the difficult part.
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Jul 15, 2014 04:11
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Is it just total number of decisions that determines the ending or does the situation matter? If you did another run with the same Dan/Linda/Tommy numbers but split up differently do you still get the same end?
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Jul 15, 2014 04:25
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Awww. I was hoping we hosed up somewhere, having permanently stunted Tommy or something.
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Jul 15, 2014 05:43
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Galick posted:Honestly, it's a mechanically awful game and it does a terrible job of getting you to like the characters. But, it could lead to more interesting stuff in the future, so I'm glad it got made. Actually to be frank I'm not sure what "more interesting stuff" it could lead to. Aside from the "ghostly presence" conceit it's just a visual novel, boiled down to the absolute bare minimum of the experience. There's no making friends and influencing people "organically" through a series of small choices over time, you just sit down and shut up while it throws a chunk of plot at you, then it asks you what ending you want this chapter. It's kind of a step backwards in a lot of ways.
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Jul 15, 2014 07:11
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I am mostly curious about what would happen if we choose Linda in the last decision now. If Dans book still went well, taking the job feels like the wrong decision now.
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Jul 15, 2014 07:12
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Is this the three way happy ending? I googled it when someone mentioned that it existed earlier in the thread. I just didn't expect this to somehow be what we got given the votes.
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Jul 15, 2014 15:54
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This was a good LP and I think your way of presenting the game was very appropriate. I enjoyed the read. Good work! The marriage staying together and Tommy catching up and doing well as an artist both made a lot of sense based on our choices.. But I wish Dan hadn't gotten such a ridiculously fantasy ending. The game really seemed to be hinting that Dan is a pretty good author, but not a great one, and he doesn't seem to enjoy it very much. I was really hoping that Dan taking the professor job would be a good ending in the sense that he learned he really loved to teach a lot more than write and it became a steady job that he really enjoyed. I think the 'Dan is the best author ever!' bit is what really made the ending we got seem odd.
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Jul 15, 2014 16:06
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Spoonsy posted:Is this the three way happy ending? I googled it when someone mentioned that it existed earlier in the thread. I just didn't expect this to somehow be what we got given the votes. Well, good is subjective. But, yeah, we got the "good" endings for Tommy and Dan and an okay one for Linda. If we chose Linda more they could have reignited the passion in their marriage and lived like honeymooners. Or if we chose her less they could have gotten a divorce. Edit: I just read something from the developer that explains the mechanics. Apparently, a Win is basically* one point for the winner and a Lose is -0.5 points for the loser. So happiness is a zero sum game, unlike what I has been assuming. However, if someone is compromised with, they don't lose or gain points. Therefore if you always select a compromise and spread out your voting, everyone can have positive numbers, meaning you can get a no-lose ending like ours. I misunderstood the central mechanic for the entire LP. I hosed up.  *he didn't reveal the values. ThatPazuzu fucked around with this message at 16:23 on Jul 15, 2014 |
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Jul 15, 2014 16:12
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Enjoyed the LP. Can't say the same for the game. Though, that might be a case of having to play it for yourself. The ending was kind of a bummer. I didn't like the future-retrospective that the game added to each character, since it reduced the immediacy of not just the game's story but also the general draw of gameplay. Also, as personal bias, I don't like when stories end with expositional flash-forwards. I guess it is nice that the game does have an ending where everybody wins (guessing it also has endings for one person winning and for everybody losing). It may come off as a copout, but I think it can be examined as the importance/arbitrariness of time. One summer can drastically change someone's life, while the majority of summers don't. This summer didn't need to be the one that alters lives for the worse. The game presented Tommy's ending in a rather comical manner. The game went from saying that Tommy had a more than difficult time connecting with his peers to saying that Tommy had no difficulty in connecting with his peers. Dan being the best author ever is another copout, and I can't help but feel as basic wish fulfillment. I would have been satisfied with Dan just writing a novel. Of course, I also would have liked the game to focus more on writing and painting as a craft. The game takes the typical--and wrong--attitude that art endeavors are products of flashes of inspiration. True, the whole purpose was to get Dan to do the work, but his decision seemed mostly based around getting him inspired enough to sit down and work, when in reality he probably should have been working all along. This also leads into the fact that I didn't like how the character's were presented, and away from discussion on the ending.
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Jul 15, 2014 16:33
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ThatPazuzu posted:Edit: I just read something from the developer that explains the mechanics. Apparently, a Win is basically* one point for the winner and a Lose is -0.5 points for the loser. So happiness is a zero sum game, unlike what I has been assuming. However, if someone is compromised with, they don't lose or gain points. Therefore if you always select a compromise and spread out your voting, everyone can have positive numbers, meaning you can get a no-lose ending like ours. I misunderstood the central mechanic for the entire LP. I hosed up. That's interesting. Doing the math, our results look like this: (I assumed whoever was not picked in week 9 got -0.5) Dan - 3, Linda 0.5, Tommy 0.5 Tommy had the most losses out of anyone (he was abandoned for 5 out of the nine weeks) but he won three times. Enough to have a net positive gain. Linda was compromised the most (4 times) and only won twice, but the compromising doesn't really effect the score, so again, a net positive at the end. Dan won 4 times, lost twice and compromised 3 times, and he was our big winner.
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Jul 15, 2014 16:49
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If chapters and weighted differently, which I now think they were, then that could explain Tommy getting the "good" ending and Linda getting the "okay" one. Also thanks for figuring out those numbers.
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Jul 15, 2014 17:01
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Basically I'd want this to work out like King of Dragon Pass, where not all choices were equal but you didn't exactly know that. It's still good to see a little attention to everyone paid off.
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Jul 16, 2014 03:04
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