|
Tenebrais posted:Was it said that the boys were found innocent? Could be they were found guilty and that judge just gave them a slap on the wrist. Criminal cases in the US are either guilty or not guilty, defendants are not "found innocent". It sounds like a dumb spergy nitpick but it's a pretty crucial distinction.
|
#
¿
Jul 1, 2014 21:16
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 4, 2024 22:06 |
|
|
reignonyourparade posted:Probably they could have pintsize knock her out like he theoretically could cleaver if cleaver weren't so big and then suffocate her. If you're paranoid about your superheroes, you probably don't set up contingencies involving your superheroes' close friends to counter each other.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 2, 2014 12:21
|
|
|
SirDan3k posted:Of course there's a plan the dead world changing supers are Chekhov's retain the status quo murder plan and will be implemented by the third act. This is a pretty good point, and it might go this way, but I hope the comic dares to just go on with all the ubermenschen being already dead because the Powers That Be took them out on Turn One. Among the fairly heavy SJW elements, that was an awesome little gem that gave me genuine chills.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 3, 2014 03:54
|
|
|
Niton posted:As a whole, it feels like the scene is cheapened by establishing that he's abusive before anything gets said. Yes, it would have been more ballsy not to paint him as a huge prick who beats his wife.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 3, 2014 08:20
|
|
|
SirDan3k posted:Do you stop someone that kills the truly evil is a deeper moral quandary then do you stop someone who kills people that are jerks. The definition of what exactly is evil is the interesting part. If it's blatant, e.g. not only does he acquit a bunch of gang rapists but he also punches his wife in the eye and yells mean stuff at her, it's a pretty straightforward matter (it isn't really but wifebeaters are pretty easy to write off for the comic's SJW target audience).
|
|
#
¿
Jul 4, 2014 03:23
|
|
|
I feel really stupid for this to take so long to occur to me to ask but, why does the invisible throat cutting person kill the judge anyway? What about the jury? The judge just determines the sentence, he doesn't deliver the verdict.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 4, 2014 23:06
|
|
|
Ha, I actually had read your post before I read the comic page and uh, yeah I'm even dumber than I thought I was, thanks! I still don't really get it though, there is no indicator in the story that the judge set aside the verdict or anything. I guess it was just much simpler this way?
|
|
#
¿
Jul 4, 2014 23:56
|
|
|
A big flaming stink posted:also being bombarded by the thought process of everyone around you might inhibit a sense of individuality. "I instinctively read everyone's minds and have for many years, but I act like a total weirdo and don't notice when my behavior alienates people" Patrick is a fresh take on the telepath gimmick but he really doesn't make sense unless he literally has Asperger's syndrome.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 7, 2014 20:38
|
|
|
Yeah when he encounters someone and they immediately go "wow Patrick is a loving weirdo!" Human beings instinctively cooperate and socialize, that's our big thing. If anything Patrick should be the most debonair motherfucker in the world. e: although yeah Asperger's would totally justify that.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 7, 2014 21:20
|
|
|
And see, if the comic was about some superpowered person stabbing Sheriff Joe Arpaio for being a jerk and poo poo, that would be off putting too. Wait actually that'd be pretty cool. Anyway it would be a different comic and would still rub me the wrong way here.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 14, 2014 01:18
|
|
|
I don't get where Allison is off the hook for things like taking a guy off the floor by his throat because he's possibly spiriting a woman off to have his wicked way with her. I mean yes we are shown that he is A Big Douchebag (TM) and yes we're shown in no uncertain terms that yeah probably he was gonna rape her or something (after she assaults the gently caress out of him) but surely there is a less violent way to interrupt that than clotheslining him and holding up in the air while choking him. Seriously what is the lesson from the comic here for non-super people, if you see Miles with his arm around a drunk chick, shoot him immediately and ask questions later? Allison doesn't show any regret for this other than how her preferred method of intervention is pretty much not cool with normal people and is going to alienate her friends, but gently caress her friends anyway - the comic sidesteps the fact that she was ridiculously violent here because drat those date rapers are shitheels yo! If the topic is appropriate use of force I don't think this is going in a very good direction, the whole party scene just came across as Tumblr Justice. e: The other thing that bothers me here is that nobody questions good ol' Mega Girl taking the same drink chick away jumping off the loving roof, making no phone calls, telling nobody where she's going (just the righteous "Oh, you can see her now?") Oh right she has super powers of course she can't have ill intentions. Good thing Might Makes Right! ... Flesh Forge fucked around with this message at 11:08 on Jul 14, 2014 |
|
#
¿
Jul 14, 2014 11:02
|
|
|
Yeah everyone recognizes that it was a terrible response but Allison. She's totally fine with it and is pretty much gently caress The Rest Of You People Ima Do This poo poo.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 14, 2014 11:09
|
|
|
T.G. Xarbala posted:I think you're misunderstanding, or at the very least jumping the gun. Yeah see, there's a huge difference between the party scene and the scene where Feral gets firebombed. There, Allison loses her temper* and key point, shortly after she is visibly regretful. At the party she goes way too far in response to a way less serious situation but she's totally self-righteous about it. It's okay here though because gently caress them date rapers yo. * and I don't mean her reflexive killing of the firebomber, I mean where she's all ".. or I'm going to kill every last one of you." e: On the other hand the comic could be heading towards Allison being a pretty lovely moralist and having a really inconsistent sense of justice and that might be pretty hilarious and cool, but I'm fairly sure that's not what the author intends Flesh Forge fucked around with this message at 08:12 on Jul 16, 2014 |
|
#
¿
Jul 16, 2014 08:08
|
|
|
T.G. Xarbala posted:We already know she's hot-headed and self-righteous. She showed regret about nearly killing dozens of civilians in a rage. That's kinda different from saving a drunk girl from being taken advantage of at a party. Yes, in that her behavior at the party is much worse because it's objectively much less justified and is a calmly delivered physical assault, but you are going the other way with it (gently caress them date rapers yo!) which is what the author seems to intend. Which is pretty deplorable really.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 16, 2014 10:14
|
|
|
I'm totally on board with the idea the Power Corrupts, and that Allison is kind of a terrible person when you get right down to it, but I'm really pretty sure that the author does not intend this. What you are saying is literally that Might Makes Right, which is fundamentally a really terrible outlook that is super common in comic books and other media like say Mein Kampf. I guess I'm the dumb one for hoping this particular comic's protagonist aspired to better ideals. e: I don't know how to break down "Might Makes Right" more simply than that, so if this comes across as flippant, oh well I'm a shithead sorry idk
|
|
#
¿
Jul 16, 2014 12:22
|
|
|
quote:From her perspective, she's done nothing wrong. For an ordinary human lifting someone up by their neck seems extreme, but if you're wondering if she somehow has an inconsistent sense of justice from this, you're clearly forgetting one extremely telling moment: She walked up to a supervillain, told him that they were a lot alike, and meant it. Since Allison is not ordinary (she is mighty) she has done nothing wrong (she is right). This is super problematic. T.G. Xarbala posted:Feel free to jump to conclusions, but in future bear in mind that the failure to live up to an ideal does not mean one is not aspiring towards it. You give the impression of someone who hasn't actually read the comic and are just hopping in because it's SJWs R' Us and, while I can't really fault someone for a good ol' fashioned troll in what looks like Tumblrland, I'm kinda disappointed because I assumed the discussion was in good faith. Now you're getting personal because I have differing opinions about a webcomic dude. Step back. e: It isn't that she failed to live up to the ideal, it's that she doesn't show that she has the ideal at all in the party scene, which is kind of a big reversal from the Feral firebomb scene/conversation with Daniel. But I haven't read the comic so there's no way I could know this I guess. Flesh Forge fucked around with this message at 12:35 on Jul 16, 2014 |
|
#
¿
Jul 16, 2014 12:33
|
|
|
T.G. Xarbala posted:Sorry, ... welp. "Sorry but" nice! You also keep missing the point, that the comic is pandering to the gently caress The Date Raper demographic here (I guess you are in this demographic). Not that Date Rapers are precious things that need to be defended but I can think of various nonviolent approaches to interrupting Miles that the author chose not to depict. quote:Might makes right is problematic (but also not exactly something you can ignore on a purely practical level, we live in a world where might really does make right, and if that weren't the case then sovereign governments wouldn't feel compelled to maintain a monopoly of force to remain sovereign or even functional), and Allison is going to have to get over herself and grow up, but do you really have to be so sanctimonious about it? From the very beginning, the comic has said it's not about what is pragmatic but rather what is right. "do you really have to be so sanctimonious" Do you have to be a snide dick to anyone who disagrees with you?
|
|
#
¿
Jul 16, 2014 13:08
|
|
|
It's almost like this isn't a real world situation and like, a guy wrote this on purpose!
|
|
#
¿
Jul 16, 2014 13:20
|
|
|
That's our friend Miles. Please don't kill him. 
|
|
#
¿
Jul 17, 2014 04:45
|
|
|
No, she wasn't mad, she was chill. What made her mad was more that her friends got bothered about how she handled it. If she was like, 10 years old maybe that would make sense but realistically if she casually assaulted people like that and she was ever mistaken (i.e. Miles actually turned out to be Drunk Girl's husband and was not a Total Douchebag (TM), because Allison was absolutely guessing) more than once or twice then I'm pretty sure this comic is actually The Boys and not Superman a la Tumblr. If she's that dumb then she'd occasionally pinch off the wrong dude's head.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 18, 2014 01:35
|
|
|
Small Frozen Thing posted:Flesh Forge is inching further and further into Not All Men territory, and it's getting kind of obnoxious. Wow, haha go gently caress yourself. Wittgen posted:Absolutely guessing? She didn't just see a guy leaving with a drunk girl and assault him. She questioned him, and he totally failed. Oops, sorry, she did ask him literally one question which he seems not to have answered to her satisfaction and thus full on physical assault is totally justified I guess. What the gently caress. e: Alopex posted:I'm kinda surprised that so much of the thread has been comprised about people getting pissed off that the flawed and impulsive protagonist acts in ways that are flawed and impulsive. Yeah see her actions at the party are not impulsive, shown not to be flawed, and she's even chill! My problem with this scene is not that she beat up a dude, it's that if you or I (or anybody) were in this situation then physical force would be the absolute last resort, and not the first item on the agenda. Pretend for a minute the guy is not a Date Raper but maybe he's going off to rob a bank or manipulate some stock trades or some other villainous thing that isn't Date Raping. Is it still the correct first response to grab him and hold him up in the air by his windpipe? Flesh Forge fucked around with this message at 02:09 on Jul 18, 2014 |
|
#
¿
Jul 18, 2014 02:05
|
|
|
Flesh Forge posted:Pretend for a minute the guy is not a Date Raper but maybe he's going off to rob a bank or manipulate some stock trades or some other villainous thing that isn't Date Raping. Is it still the correct first response to grab him and hold him up in the air by his windpipe? Is it seriously this hard for you guys to talk about this topic without getting lovely and personal about it? Wow jesus christ.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 18, 2014 02:14
|
|
|
Apparently positive social change begins with choking people! Okay yeah I don't care to be dogpiled for not liking a scene in a webcomic so maybe this thread is not for me. Hugs and kittens dudes!
|
|
#
¿
Jul 18, 2014 02:39
|
|
|
I've gone so far out of my way to make sure that everyone I've kidnapped, tortured, murdered, and whose corpses I've mutilated deserved it. And they're still going to say I turned villain.  Look where this comic has gone my goodness I am totally shocked!!!
|
|
#
¿
Sep 14, 2015 11:31
|
|
|
Captain Bravo posted:The hilarious part is that FF is also misreading authorial intent, and decided to keep arguing that point after literally being told from the author what the intent was. So that got a good laugh out of me. I know right? I'm still laughing!!
|
|
#
¿
Sep 14, 2015 12:01
|
|
|
CapnAndy posted:No, I'm not angry at you guys, I'm angry at the comic. Because it is trying to make exactly that comparison and has been doing so for this entire chapter and I'm calling bullshit. Surely you are just misreading ~authorial intent~ my good friend  In this issue, Alison pats Mary's hand as they commiserate over just how darn hard it is to be a superhero.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 15, 2015 21:31
|
|
|
Mary is basically Flesh Forge fucked around with this message at 05:27 on Sep 16, 2015 |
|
#
¿
Sep 16, 2015 02:10
|
|
|
Good things really do come to those who wait  e: don't mind me I'm just reviewing the thread and all the insightful commentary therein Bruceski posted:Allison and Moonshadow get a chance to bond and talk things out while killing him together. Strangely prophetic Flesh Forge fucked around with this message at 04:18 on Sep 16, 2015 |
|
#
¿
Sep 16, 2015 03:19
|
|
|
Tollymain posted:look, she just needs to convince allison that she's not completely gone until she's far enough away allison can't find her No, she's going to try this but Alison is going to be forced kill her and everyone will cry and it will be covered up by her government handlers and that will be the end of this chapter.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 16, 2015 08:28
|
|
|
I want to keep this a safe space while we depict grabbing up rapists and stabbing them and cutting words into their flesh as they die and then justify it as a pretty cool and OK thing to do with pages of statistics.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 17, 2015 01:49
|
|
|
Going back a little bit, how on earth did this pass so quietly among all the rapetalk: Oh hi Mega Girl I just kidnapped a bunch of people and drugged them and am doing a bunch of stuff with their brains without their consent but it's okay they won't remember a thing in the morning! Where are my manners here's a present! When I read this I was just kind of stunned that the author is so preoccupied with  but it apparently didn't occur to him that this is the mental analogue of the physical crime. No one in the world would be okay with having this done to them without their consent and many (I think most) who found out about it afterward would have just the same reaction to someone who had been drugged and physically raped. There are some comments that point out it's not very nice (and a whole lot more saying it's not a big deal) but none of them make the connection to date rape either 
|
|
#
¿
Sep 17, 2015 04:32
|
|
|
Hypocrisy posted:Uh...Patrick is/was a super villain and that has never really changed. He also talks about murdering people in the next few pages too. That's not the point, it isn't that Patrick did a horrible thing, it's that Alison is right there witnessing it and having it explained to her but where's my manners here's your present! How could pretty much any person who is not a total sociopath (particularly a woman, PARTICULARLY the social justice warrior that she's deliberately painted to be) just get all gooey and blushy in a room full of drugged kidnap victims who are being blatantly victimized? The crushing Patrick gets a few pages later is not because of the kidnapped people he's mind-raping, it's because Alison got mad over how he failed to flatter her correctly. e: when she storms off she even leaves the unconscious scientists with him what the gently caress Flesh Forge fucked around with this message at 08:56 on Sep 17, 2015 |
|
#
¿
Sep 17, 2015 07:46
|
|
|
Err no I think the author is the one who's a bit unable actually.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 17, 2015 17:09
|
|
|
Mary, sooner or later an innocent person's neck will get cut by your knife. I accept that your judgement has been totally flawless up to now though and those earlier bits of torture and mutilation and murder are A-OK because you're right, they did deserve it! 50/50 on whether Alison kills Mary (with great regret of course) or just lets her walk away.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 18, 2015 17:28
|
|
|
I also like that the author phrased it in passive voice "person will get cut by your knife" yes the knife is the one doing the cutting of necks. While it's the most awkward way I can think of to say "You will kill etc" it's pretty blatantly obvious why he wrote it that way.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 18, 2015 17:41
|
|
|
Mr.Pibbleton posted:I hope Furnace lives and I'm kind of surprised there wasn't a truth serum session that revealed he was sexually assaulted by his father as a child. In a better comic that might have been a fascinating story line to explore yeah. Another disappointment. Exactly. e: Even so far as "A gang of rapists and a superhero were involved in a knife-related incident after the superhero came under heavy gunfire." (the mercs torture/mutilation scene) Flesh Forge fucked around with this message at 18:09 on Sep 18, 2015 |
|
#
¿
Sep 18, 2015 18:03
|
|
|
Who turn out to be literal Men's Rights Activists.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 18, 2015 18:56
|
|
|
Zerilan posted:I think someone mentioned earlier that Mary's deeds going public would also make the rape victims into accessories to the murders. I had completely forgot about one of the first scenes in the chapter straight up being a victim's family directly speaking to Mary. More than that, it was (apparently) her mother and father as well as the victim herself.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 18, 2015 23:29
|
|
|
Brought To You By posted:Speaking of Furnace, if he is dead he died a Martyr because Mary didn't get her little home video and he was the only person this whole chapter really saying that she was evil. That is an old writer's trick, where you package the opposing view in words delivered by a very unappealing character the reader is obviously not supposed to identify with and who is sharply contrasted with the protagonist. Furnace is very deliberately an idiot and a redneck and a Haver of Bad Opinions so the reader can feel self-righteous and justified about the notion that yes actually the unilateral cutting up of rapists with knives is pretty great. e: and yes as you say he is literally the only person in the chapter that disagrees with Mary's killings in the slightest, which is pretty deplorable quote:Originally we thought that Mary had killed dozens of people leading up to this, and Allison finds out that that number is actually in the hundreds. This should have been an enough-is-enough moment where Allison has to put aside her feeling of guilt over partially creating the monster that is Moonshadow. The second she knew it was Mary (when Miles was murdered and Clevin stabbed) should have been the enough-is-enough moment. Flesh Forge fucked around with this message at 04:39 on Sep 19, 2015 |
|
#
¿
Sep 19, 2015 04:37
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 4, 2024 22:06 |
|
|
"I don't think killing will work as well as teaching" "= I think killing works, but teaching works better" If she actually disagreed she might say something like "I think killing does not work." Maybe even "Killing is wrong." It's really hard to interpret Alison's dialogue as anything other than an endorsement (however reluctant) of Mary's actions but congratulations. As far as who expressly agrees with her, the conversation with the doctor is nothing but tacit agreement even though she says she doesn't agree - she has a highly specific set of statistics conveniently memorized and says "It's just uninteresting to me, the question of whether the killer is a bad person. It's just supremely uninteresting." "I'm baffled it didn't happen sooner." The whole page in context is about as subtle as a brick. There is nothing ambiguous about what's going on, and even Garth loving Ennis doesn't try to paint vigilantism this way.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 19, 2015 13:18
|
|