Strong Female Protagonist: Throwing Fair-Trade, Organic Coffee at The Man

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > BSS: Bisexual Super Son > Strong Female Protagonist: Throwing Fair-Trade, Organic Coffee at The Man

Pavlov: Oct 21, 2012; I've long been fascinated with how the alt-right develops elaborate and obscure dog whistles to try to communicate their meaning without having to say it out loud
Stepan Andreyevich Bandera being the most prominent example of that

thatbastardken posted:

Up until she took dramatic action no-one in the party was paying any attention. The pre-rapist wasn't going to answer honestly, and the girl was close to blackout drunk and couldn't speak for herself. If Allison wasn't indestructible and super strong, just a concerned citizen, that girl would have been the victim of a serious crime after douchebag pushed her out of the way.

Not saying that she doesn't have issues with enjoying violence, but this was an appropriate use of force.

Yes, and by choking him, she does manage to make a scene, but she makes the scene about her and not about him. Hell, when she leaves, some of the other guests are looking sympathetic towards the guy, which is the exact opposite of what she wanted. The thing is, this guy is a symptom of a social problem, and you don't solve social problems by choking people. If on the other hand, she had just made a scene like a normal person might, sans choaking, then peoples reactions would have been on what the guy was actually doing. She's a superhero at a freaking superhero themed costume party, what better place to demonstrate how she'd like other people to react to this sort of thing? Other people can't just go around choking strangers, so everyone at the party comes out of this with nothing. She fixes this problem, but does nothing to stop the real problem.

Pavlov fucked around with this message at 05:06 on Jun 18, 2014

# ¿ Jun 18, 2014 05:03

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ¿ May 2, 2024 15:50

Pavlov: Oct 21, 2012; I've long been fascinated with how the alt-right develops elaborate and obscure dog whistles to try to communicate their meaning without having to say it out loud
Stepan Andreyevich Bandera being the most prominent example of that

Phylodox posted:

Yeah, no, I don't think so. As everyone at the party was so loving eager to point out, Miles is a dude they know and like. No amount of talking or convincing is going to get them to believe he's a potential date rapist. All Allison would have done was gotten into a stupid, circular, pointless argument about how he's a cool dude and cool dudes don't rape. Besides, whose word are you going to take? Miles, who's a totally cool dude, or some strange chick whose name nobody even knows and who's obviously drunk? That was the whole point of that whole vignette. Nobody thinks of rapists as people they know.

But even if you're right, how is that any different than what happened anyway? I'm pretty sure the same conversation that happened in the comic would have happened anyway, except Alison would would have looked a bit less crazy, and the dude a bit less like a victim himself. People seem a little more likely to listen to someone who, from their perspective, didn't just super-power strangle one of their friends without warning.

# ¿ Jun 18, 2014 05:27

Pavlov: Oct 21, 2012; I've long been fascinated with how the alt-right develops elaborate and obscure dog whistles to try to communicate their meaning without having to say it out loud
Stepan Andreyevich Bandera being the most prominent example of that

Phylodox posted:

Because it isn't about them? Miles is trying to rape a girl. Who the gently caress wants to stop and have a conversation about it?!? Allison's first priority was stopping the date rape from happening and then making sure that poor girl got home safely. gently caress people who want to defend date rapists. gently caress people who want to stop and talk about it and maybe discuss how there are two sides to every story, man. Especially gently caress Violet, who would rather treat her friend like poo poo than believe some guy she takes a class with could be a lovely date raping rear end in a top hat.

You want to dig deep and deal with the roots of a chronic social problem, that's great, but the time to do it isn't when there's a drugged potential rape victim freaking out in the middle of a party filled with people who would rather see her raped than believe their friend is a sack of poo poo.

I disagree. I think the real issue is with the others at the party. Alison's big dilemma right now is that she can throw around all the muscle she wants, but she doesn't know how to actually affect anything important about the world. Let's be straight, the moment Alison noticed something was going on, the date-rape was essentially dead in the road. She could take the girl home, like she did, whenever she wanted, and nobody could do a thing to stop her. Choking Miles doesn't have any affect on that. It might feel good to do that, it might be entirely fair to do that, but in the end it doesn't actually help anything.

No, the real problem is that she's the only one doing anything about it in the first place. The kind of change Alison really wants is the kind where people stop that kind of thing from happening without her even being there. Of course all the party-goers aren't going to make a full 180 on the spot, no matter what she says. But it really is her impact on the rest of them that decides how successful she is in the long run. If one or two of them actually look out for similar things in the future, or get indignant about it themselves, then that's actual social change, even if only on the small scale. That's how you beat rape culture as opposed to just beating rapeists. And that's the bit that Alison's been failing to accomplish.

# ¿ Jun 18, 2014 06:20

Pavlov: Oct 21, 2012; I've long been fascinated with how the alt-right develops elaborate and obscure dog whistles to try to communicate their meaning without having to say it out loud
Stepan Andreyevich Bandera being the most prominent example of that

Phylodox posted:

No. You don't try to effect change on a social level when there's an almost-rape victim sobbing in the corner. What, you want her to give a stern lecture? Engage in a spirited debate? Convene some sort of round table discussion? gently caress all of that. She choked out Miles and shamed everyone at the party by bringing attention to their inaction and not compromising in the face of their shittiness. If any of those assholes don't have the wherewithal to feel shame at that, then nothing she would have said would have done anything, anyways.

Mate, she's not sobbing, just drunk. I'm just suggesting that if Alison did exactly what she did, minus the assault, she might accomplish a little something more. It's easy to say something like, "gently caress all these people if they don't immediately get it then they're not worth the breath", but if you do that, you just get the exact same problems at next week's party.

# ¿ Jun 18, 2014 06:58

Pavlov: Oct 21, 2012; I've long been fascinated with how the alt-right develops elaborate and obscure dog whistles to try to communicate their meaning without having to say it out loud
Stepan Andreyevich Bandera being the most prominent example of that

Captain Bravo posted:

And the most important thing, as a reader, we don't know for a fact that he is a bad guy.

Well, given the tone of the comic so far, I seriously doubt it's going to go into false rape accusation territory, which is where it would have to go if it wanted to make things even a little bit ambiguous. In real life questioning that fact could be reasonable, but as readers, I think we can safely assume that he did in fact intend to date-rape that girl.

# ¿ Jun 18, 2014 19:56

Pavlov: Oct 21, 2012; I've long been fascinated with how the alt-right develops elaborate and obscure dog whistles to try to communicate their meaning without having to say it out loud
Stepan Andreyevich Bandera being the most prominent example of that

I guess I'll be honest, when I first saw Miles, I didn't notice anything off about him either. I thought Alison was storming off to respond to that one text. I mean, his face kind of looks less like a rapist's, and more like the author got lazy with his anatomy. It's kind of like it's just... melting off to the side there. If you cover up the face, they pretty much look like a normal drunk couple.

# ¿ Jun 18, 2014 22:31

Pavlov: Oct 21, 2012; I've long been fascinated with how the alt-right develops elaborate and obscure dog whistles to try to communicate their meaning without having to say it out loud
Stepan Andreyevich Bandera being the most prominent example of that

I feel like Alison is the kind of person where if she thought he was being serious, she would have been over to help him a lot sooner.

# ¿ Jun 26, 2014 23:30

Pavlov: Oct 21, 2012; I've long been fascinated with how the alt-right develops elaborate and obscure dog whistles to try to communicate their meaning without having to say it out loud
Stepan Andreyevich Bandera being the most prominent example of that

"BRB getting murdured #fml #cleaversadick"

# ¿ Jun 27, 2014 00:38

Pavlov: Oct 21, 2012; I've long been fascinated with how the alt-right develops elaborate and obscure dog whistles to try to communicate their meaning without having to say it out loud
Stepan Andreyevich Bandera being the most prominent example of that

I bet he's dead on literally the next page.

# ¿ Jun 27, 2014 18:43

Pavlov: Oct 21, 2012; I've long been fascinated with how the alt-right develops elaborate and obscure dog whistles to try to communicate their meaning without having to say it out loud
Stepan Andreyevich Bandera being the most prominent example of that

Wait, even if the old guy was a dick, why would she kill him for being the judge at the trial? If it was a real criminal trial, the judge didn't actually decide if the boys were innocent or not, the jury did. The judge would have a say in sentencing, but that's only if they were found guilty to begin with. Otherwise the old dude probably just spent the whole trial looking stern and occasionally saying "sustained" and "overruled".

# ¿ Jul 1, 2014 14:49

Pavlov: Oct 21, 2012; I've long been fascinated with how the alt-right develops elaborate and obscure dog whistles to try to communicate their meaning without having to say it out loud
Stepan Andreyevich Bandera being the most prominent example of that

What is an IVS?

# ¿ Jul 1, 2014 15:31

Pavlov: Oct 21, 2012; I've long been fascinated with how the alt-right develops elaborate and obscure dog whistles to try to communicate their meaning without having to say it out loud
Stepan Andreyevich Bandera being the most prominent example of that

Hah! And here I was wracking my brain for legal terminology.

# ¿ Jul 1, 2014 15:41

Pavlov: Oct 21, 2012; I've long been fascinated with how the alt-right develops elaborate and obscure dog whistles to try to communicate their meaning without having to say it out loud
Stepan Andreyevich Bandera being the most prominent example of that

That actually brings up a good point. Why is IVS killing people associated with a small town rape trial? I know "super powers don't solve social problems" is a running theme, but stabbing a bunch of high-profile politicians and lawmakers instead actually might accomplish some of that. Hell, approval ratings for the American congress are so low right now, I think you'd find a lot of people who would be totally fine with it.

# ¿ Jul 1, 2014 15:52

Pavlov: Oct 21, 2012; I've long been fascinated with how the alt-right develops elaborate and obscure dog whistles to try to communicate their meaning without having to say it out loud
Stepan Andreyevich Bandera being the most prominent example of that

ashweh posted:

If IVS is from around the area, maybe she knows the daughters that are mentioned, and about why they don't go to visit their parents.

Or she is their daughter. BAM! Irony stab!

# ¿ Jul 1, 2014 17:00

Pavlov: Oct 21, 2012; I've long been fascinated with how the alt-right develops elaborate and obscure dog whistles to try to communicate their meaning without having to say it out loud
Stepan Andreyevich Bandera being the most prominent example of that

One of the boys said that that the trial was all over, and the news report of their deaths said charged not convicted, so I think it's safe to assume they were found innocent.

Also, I got the impression that IVS was moreso just asking permission to go about killing, because lets be honest, the backlash from the death of those boys is going to come back around to the victim girl eventually, so it'd be rude not to get her OK first.

# ¿ Jul 1, 2014 17:55

Pavlov: Oct 21, 2012; I've long been fascinated with how the alt-right develops elaborate and obscure dog whistles to try to communicate their meaning without having to say it out loud
Stepan Andreyevich Bandera being the most prominent example of that

I agree with Hollismason that the comic is kind of laying it on heavy with the social issues bit. If the next scene has Allison getting cat-called by construction workers, who she then lectures on heteronormative values, it wouldn't really be out of place with the current pacing. I forgive it for that though, because it's a bi-weakly web comic, and if it really wanted to go into detail on all these issues, it might as well declare 2014 "The Year of the Rape Culture" and get nothing else done. I'd rather it be a bit expedited than becoming a slog.

Pavlov fucked around with this message at 20:51 on Jul 2, 2014

# ¿ Jul 2, 2014 18:40

Pavlov: Oct 21, 2012; I've long been fascinated with how the alt-right develops elaborate and obscure dog whistles to try to communicate their meaning without having to say it out loud
Stepan Andreyevich Bandera being the most prominent example of that

A big flaming stink posted:

also being bombarded by the thought process of everyone around you might inhibit a sense of individuality.

he honestly might not be able to grasp where he ends and other people begin

That might have something to do with why he seems so uncomfortable with personal sexuality.

# ¿ Jul 7, 2014 13:05

Pavlov: Oct 21, 2012; I've long been fascinated with how the alt-right develops elaborate and obscure dog whistles to try to communicate their meaning without having to say it out loud
Stepan Andreyevich Bandera being the most prominent example of that

Flesh Forge posted:

Patrick is a fresh take on the telepath gimmick but he really doesn't make sense unless he literally has Asperger's syndrome.

Asperger's telepathy is actually a pretty cool idea.

# ¿ Jul 7, 2014 21:02

Pavlov: Oct 21, 2012; I've long been fascinated with how the alt-right develops elaborate and obscure dog whistles to try to communicate their meaning without having to say it out loud
Stepan Andreyevich Bandera being the most prominent example of that

Captain Bravo posted:

This is why I've been frustrated with the comic for this arc. I loved Cleaver, especially the talk with him. The protesters were... a little off, but overall still pretty good. But holy poo poo the party and the judge are just terrible. Absolutely terrible. "This guy is a date rapist. You know this not only because he's trying to date-rape this girl, but also because he looks like a bro, and is unnaturally aggressive towards the invincible main character, and is also a skeevy whiny bitch. This judge let the rapists get off. He did so because he's a wife-beater, definitely sexist and probably an old southern racist too, hell lets toss in some slight implications of child abuse and pedophilia while we're at it!"

Christ. I mean, sure, Picasso laid it on thick. But he did so with a brush, not a hose. Cliches and stereotypes are a crutch for writers to quickly and easily give character information to the audience. Not only does her writing seem like it should be beyond that need, she's layering additional stuff on top of the cliche, just to make doubly sure we're positive these are lovely people. And honestly, the subject content of the comic makes me think that she would probably be a lot more comfortable writing subject matter that doesn't reinforce the concept of making snap judgements about people.

I understand the sentiment, but I think I want to see how the arc resolves before judging it too thoroughly. There's still a chance that the heavy-handedness will be justified.

# ¿ Jul 8, 2014 15:11

Pavlov: Oct 21, 2012; I've long been fascinated with how the alt-right develops elaborate and obscure dog whistles to try to communicate their meaning without having to say it out loud
Stepan Andreyevich Bandera being the most prominent example of that

Yeah, I mean, who would have thought that the one person we know of with invisibility powers ended up being the secret invisible killer?

# ¿ Jul 29, 2014 23:46

Pavlov: Oct 21, 2012; I've long been fascinated with how the alt-right develops elaborate and obscure dog whistles to try to communicate their meaning without having to say it out loud
Stepan Andreyevich Bandera being the most prominent example of that

Yes, but at least she's a funny jerk this time. Also this might actually be the kind of thing he needs to hear.

# ¿ Aug 8, 2014 13:43

Pavlov: Oct 21, 2012; I've long been fascinated with how the alt-right develops elaborate and obscure dog whistles to try to communicate their meaning without having to say it out loud
Stepan Andreyevich Bandera being the most prominent example of that

And every page becomes twice as good when I remember he's still using the chipmunk voice.

Imagine Alvin saying "We all got to be loving hipsters about everything."

# ¿ Aug 13, 2014 14:00

Pavlov: Oct 21, 2012; I've long been fascinated with how the alt-right develops elaborate and obscure dog whistles to try to communicate their meaning without having to say it out loud
Stepan Andreyevich Bandera being the most prominent example of that

A big flaming stink posted:

well honestly a murderspree in israel's government by a superhero might not be that bad of an idea

That actually brings up a good point. While Alison could change the world just by killing a bunch of political leaders, she would have to kill them based on political lines, and she probably realizes that she doesn't know enough to be sure she's killing the right bunch. While I'm sure she wouldn't pick "lets just kill all the Jews thats worked so well for us in the past", she could end up picking lines that look just as bad to people in retrospect. The problem with hindsight is you don't get it until it's too late.

TwoPair posted:

Allison is frustrating because she's going to school looking for a grand master theory to fix the world

I now want to see a chapter where Alison is introduced to a "LessWrong" style techno-singularity cult.

# ¿ Aug 25, 2014 13:08

Pavlov: Oct 21, 2012; I've long been fascinated with how the alt-right develops elaborate and obscure dog whistles to try to communicate their meaning without having to say it out loud
Stepan Andreyevich Bandera being the most prominent example of that

RiotGearEpsilon posted:

It does. But it is so, so boring to actually do.

I'll agree there. The results can be rad but the actual work can be tedious as gently caress.

# ¿ Aug 26, 2014 15:52

Pavlov: Oct 21, 2012; I've long been fascinated with how the alt-right develops elaborate and obscure dog whistles to try to communicate their meaning without having to say it out loud
Stepan Andreyevich Bandera being the most prominent example of that

Hollismason posted:

She's not probably immune to tear gas, why would you not fill the room with tear gas first then throw water balloons filled with paint or whatever once you see her displace the smoke.

So, fill room with gas, throw water balloons at the displaced area, shoot.

Well, she seems to be able to make her gear invisible too, and she's been living the Hall of Justice for the last few years so if she had a gasmask it wouldn't surprise me. Honestly paint doesn't make much sense when you think about it either. If you can make your cloths invisible, why couldn't you make the paint on your cloths invisible too?

# ¿ Sep 4, 2014 04:15

Pavlov: Oct 21, 2012; I've long been fascinated with how the alt-right develops elaborate and obscure dog whistles to try to communicate their meaning without having to say it out loud
Stepan Andreyevich Bandera being the most prominent example of that

I really hope she just has a good sense of humor and didn't just pull a serious "all men are rapists".

# ¿ Sep 16, 2014 14:23

Pavlov: Oct 21, 2012; I've long been fascinated with how the alt-right develops elaborate and obscure dog whistles to try to communicate their meaning without having to say it out loud
Stepan Andreyevich Bandera being the most prominent example of that

ChairMaster posted:

Man I can't believe that there are people who actually managed to read that line like that. She said that because "boys" carries an connotation of innocence to it, whereas "rapists" does not, which makes it more accurate.

Well that one's for real, but she lives in America so it's mostly pretty accurate.

Well, she's being pretty strangely tongue-in-cheek this page, its hard to tell exactly how serious she's being about any of it (except, perhaps, for the last bit). If she's serious about the cop bit, its not too much of a stretch to think she might be serious about the "boys, rapists, technically different" bit.

# ¿ Sep 16, 2014 16:07

Pavlov: Oct 21, 2012; I've long been fascinated with how the alt-right develops elaborate and obscure dog whistles to try to communicate their meaning without having to say it out loud
Stepan Andreyevich Bandera being the most prominent example of that

Small Frozen Thing posted:

You've got a persecution complex dude. Either that or you're complete rear end at reading comprehension.

Haha what? For saying it's possible that the serial killer could have some kind-of-lovely views hidden behind dismissive humor? If it makes you feel better I could shut up about it.

# ¿ Sep 17, 2014 00:39

Pavlov: Oct 21, 2012; I've long been fascinated with how the alt-right develops elaborate and obscure dog whistles to try to communicate their meaning without having to say it out loud
Stepan Andreyevich Bandera being the most prominent example of that

At this point I regret even bringing up the idea, which I only ever considered an off-hand possibility in the first place. People really love to dig into things in this thread it looks like.

# ¿ Sep 18, 2014 18:39

Pavlov: Oct 21, 2012; I've long been fascinated with how the alt-right develops elaborate and obscure dog whistles to try to communicate their meaning without having to say it out loud
Stepan Andreyevich Bandera being the most prominent example of that

SlothfulCobra posted:

Maybe if she went after some white-collar criminals instead of murdering stupid kids, I'd like her more.

If she started offing lobbyists I'd be half way to starting her up a fanclub.

# ¿ Sep 19, 2014 16:06

Pavlov: Oct 21, 2012; I've long been fascinated with how the alt-right develops elaborate and obscure dog whistles to try to communicate their meaning without having to say it out loud
Stepan Andreyevich Bandera being the most prominent example of that

Captain Bravo posted:

Ahhhahahaha! Holy poo poo, you think that thousands of rounds of ammunition and loving grenades are easier to get ahold of than a big lock? I just... I just don't even... I don't even know how to respond to that, other than with mockery.

Girl had loving tanks in her back yard. Kind of surprising she knows how to install auto-shutting barn doors though.

# ¿ Sep 25, 2014 02:11

Pavlov: Oct 21, 2012; I've long been fascinated with how the alt-right develops elaborate and obscure dog whistles to try to communicate their meaning without having to say it out loud
Stepan Andreyevich Bandera being the most prominent example of that

Actually she never paid them, because she hired the only mercenary company dumb enough not to take payment upfront.

# ¿ Sep 26, 2014 17:36

Pavlov: Oct 21, 2012; I've long been fascinated with how the alt-right develops elaborate and obscure dog whistles to try to communicate their meaning without having to say it out loud
Stepan Andreyevich Bandera being the most prominent example of that

Ask her if all men are rapists.

# ¿ Oct 3, 2014 05:24

Pavlov: Oct 21, 2012; I've long been fascinated with how the alt-right develops elaborate and obscure dog whistles to try to communicate their meaning without having to say it out loud
Stepan Andreyevich Bandera being the most prominent example of that

Well that would be one way to get her guidance councilor to shut up.

# ¿ Oct 5, 2014 17:52

Pavlov: Oct 21, 2012; I've long been fascinated with how the alt-right develops elaborate and obscure dog whistles to try to communicate their meaning without having to say it out loud
Stepan Andreyevich Bandera being the most prominent example of that

McSpanky posted:

Nihilists keep existing (and annoying the rest of us with their dreary blather) despite coming to the conclusion that all meaning and value in life are arbitrary and artificial. Somewhere along the way they still manage to extract practical, functional values and motivations out of their existence, no matter how subjective they may be. Similarly, whether the ultimate source of society's values are artificial or not, in any practical consideration, doesn't loving matter. Any philosophy that contributes nothing to real life, especially in the realm of crime and law, is about as useful as an rear end in a top hat on my shoulder.

The only thing nihilism proves absolutely meaningless is itself. And dyed-in-the-wool nihilists.

Technically, it's possible to be a nihilist that functions essentially like an existentialist but with some caveats about the theoretical nature of meaning. You probably won't notice people like that though because the distinction is minor enough that it rarely ever comes up. The people who announce they're nihilists, I suspect, are usually just people trying to find justification for their cynicism.

On the other hand, I'm not sure what any of this has to do with those kickin construction bots over there.

# ¿ Oct 16, 2014 18:16

Pavlov: Oct 21, 2012; I've long been fascinated with how the alt-right develops elaborate and obscure dog whistles to try to communicate their meaning without having to say it out loud
Stepan Andreyevich Bandera being the most prominent example of that

Brought To You By posted:

It's almost like those robots are tiny posters on their own terrible forum.

That's probably scary close to what being in an actual hive-mind is really like.

# ¿ Oct 28, 2014 16:33

Pavlov: Oct 21, 2012; I've long been fascinated with how the alt-right develops elaborate and obscure dog whistles to try to communicate their meaning without having to say it out loud
Stepan Andreyevich Bandera being the most prominent example of that

I always thought idea of stopping an AI with logical contradictions was kind of silly. Any properly designed logic engine is going to be able to handle Undefined truth values. For some reason AIs in media all seem to use raw booleans and have 0 catch blocks.

Edit: Pshh wow for a second there I forgot this wasn't a programming thread.

Pavlov fucked around with this message at 18:38 on Oct 28, 2014

# ¿ Oct 28, 2014 18:26

Pavlov: Oct 21, 2012; I've long been fascinated with how the alt-right develops elaborate and obscure dog whistles to try to communicate their meaning without having to say it out loud
Stepan Andreyevich Bandera being the most prominent example of that

The best part of that is it's actually oddly close to what it really feels like trying to program a complex and ambiguously defined system. I wasn't really expecting my social justice superhero comic to understand me as a programmer today.

# ¿ Nov 4, 2014 16:35

Pavlov: Oct 21, 2012; I've long been fascinated with how the alt-right develops elaborate and obscure dog whistles to try to communicate their meaning without having to say it out loud
Stepan Andreyevich Bandera being the most prominent example of that

Hello, I still read the comic but I stopped reading this thread a while ago because of the awful bickering people would start at the slightest provocation. Has it gotten better?

# ¿ Apr 3, 2015 19:36

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ¿ May 2, 2024 15:50

Pavlov: Oct 21, 2012; I've long been fascinated with how the alt-right develops elaborate and obscure dog whistles to try to communicate their meaning without having to say it out loud
Stepan Andreyevich Bandera being the most prominent example of that

Trast posted:

Not even a chance.

Ok I guess I'll try again next year.

# ¿ Apr 3, 2015 21:01

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > BSS: Bisexual Super Son > Strong Female Protagonist: Throwing Fair-Trade, Organic Coffee at The Man