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Sucrose posted:Is this guy under the illusion that anyone other than whites abolished slavery in the Western world in the first place? Depends on which part of it you're talking about. Rogue0071 fucked around with this message at 19:34 on Jun 14, 2014 |
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Jun 14, 2014 19:23
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There's some evidence that a lot of racist caricatures of body traits and the outgrowth of those originates with 1400s-onwards exploration and trade. There are diary entries, letters, etc. from Portuguese missionaries and explorers about Africans (often relying on stories they heard rather than actual observation) that focus on African bodies, particularly those of African women. One of the more widespread ideas, for example, was that African women had extremely long breasts that they hung over their shoulders. This particular myth didn't survive, but it was the foundation of a lot of longer-lasting and more influential beliefs about African women, child-rearing, and sexuality/promiscuity. The same pattern happened with European exploration of the Americas - early explorers sent back physical descriptions of natives, particularly native women, and a lot of racist concepts originated from them.
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Jun 14, 2014 22:33
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Main Paineframe posted:Oh, there actually is literal "chain your employees to their workplace, then throw them into a locked trailer with armed guards at night" slavery occasionally, it's just a lot rarer than the type you're talking about because it's much harder to keep secret outside of rural nowhere and you have to spend a lot more money on chains, locks, and armed guards. It should further be noted that slaves themselves contributed enormously to converting the Union's war to an emancipatory war in addition to just a war for reunification. Enormous numbers of slaves deserted or took over plantations, wrecking the slave economy's infrastructure and making the abolition of slavery an economic reality in addition to a Union war policy. Hundreds of thousands of blacks, including northern free blacks but primarily ex-slaves, fought for the Union army and navy, comprising about 10% of the Union's manpower, and fought with great distinction. Further, important black figures like Frederick Douglass were very influential in pushing Lincoln and other Republicans away from gradual compensated emancipation and colonization and towards immediate abolition. The popular image of Lincoln as "the Great Emancipator" is historically flawed and denies agency and historical recognition to the massive struggle against slavery being conducted by American blacks during the period (which should not be confused with the reactionary slanders of Lincoln made to whitewash the CSA). E: Obviously, wage labor and modern capitalism are preferable to loving chattel slavery. The point that there is still massive amounts of inequality, racism, unfree labor, etc. today, however, is one worth making. "Better than chattel slavery" is not sufficient, and prison slavery, racism, and poverty all need to be fought. Rogue0071 fucked around with this message at 02:54 on Jun 15, 2014 |
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Jun 15, 2014 02:47
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Sucrose posted:Actually SedanChair did literally say that, it's on page 3. The idea that even slight progress in social justice could have been made in the past 200 years goes against the fundamental beliefs of far-leftism, so you'd see people argue that water isn't wet if it lines up with their ideology about the state of the world. As a far leftist myself, I guess I, and almost all far leftists I know, missed that memo. That's a ridiculous caricature. Rogue0071 fucked around with this message at 20:01 on Jun 15, 2014 |
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Jun 15, 2014 19:59
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Sucrose posted:And liberals are not "obsessed with the narrative of progress", either. I haven't claimed they are, and if you want to criticize Sedanchair for making sweeping and inaccurate generalizations do so directly rather than making up more.
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Jun 15, 2014 20:24
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