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Slavery was a long-standing practice in Africa before the Europeans showed up, with slaves captured by other African tribes being sold to the Ottoman Empire for centuries beforehand. Apparently some North African states still practice outright slavery to this very day. It's not all about white racism and Africans were participants as well as victims of the slave trade. Arguably, if the Africans and Ottomans hadn't already set up a fully functioning system of slavery before the Europeans showed up then there might not have been any slaves transported to Africa at all, since it wasn't a European invention in the first place. That's not to say that there wasn't immense cruelty and suffering inflicted by the Europeans/colonialists on the African slaves. There were powerful economic motivations for slavery in America, which probably had a lot more to do with slavery being propagated than some all-consuming desire of whites to dominate blacks. Dehumanizing the slaves through an ideology of racial supremacy was no doubt convenient to keep the system going; otherwise there might be (and was) a moral outcry against the practice. Racism is probably more of a symptom than a cause of slavery.
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Jun 14, 2014 19:40
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Popular Thug Drink posted:You realize white supremacists love this bullshit argument, right? Slavery existing across the ancient and medieval world, including Europe, does not absolve Europeans from the mass forced migration of African chattel slaves to be worked to death in the Americas. Slavery isn't a European or African invention, it is a Human invention because we historically are terrible to each other. There's no way to argue this point that 'Africans did it first!' without sounding like a massive tool. Slavery existed in the ancient world in Europe; but it took off in the colonial period when Europeans came into contact with African tribes selling slaves. I think it's perfectly reasonable to hypothesize that if it weren't for the slave trade in Africa already existing at that time, then there might not have been a transatlantic slave trade at all. While some white supremacists may seek to absolve the Europeans of any responsibility with similar arguments that is not my goal. My point was that racism was a symptom of slavery rather than a cause of it. Your second point is similar to what I said myself in that regard. e: spelling Mukip fucked around with this message at 21:39 on Jun 14, 2014 |
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Jun 14, 2014 21:27
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That's missing the point. Colonial slavery is often attributed to a non-economic explanation of white racism, and pointing out that the African slave trade existed independently of Europeans is worth pointing out to correct that. I am not arguing that racism somehow doesn't exist or wasn't a factor in the slave trade or whatever it is you are insisting in reading into my posts.
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Jun 14, 2014 22:03
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As I see it, you are pretty much just rewording what I already said and then accusing me of being a closet white supremacist. I don't really care if you have anecdotal experience of somebody who made a similar arguement who was racist.
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Jun 14, 2014 22:11
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Or alternately, stop making GBS threads up the thread with your unnecessary hostile attitude. Whether an arguement "sounds like something a baddy would say" has no logical bearing on it's merit.
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Jun 14, 2014 22:18
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