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enbot posted:Nope, and such beliefs are just as racist as any tea partier. No? Being prejudiced against people with more power than you isn't nearly the same as being prejudiced against people with far less power. In some philosophical way I guess it is, but - practically - the effects of each of these forms of bigotry are drastically different.
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Jun 14, 2014 20:36
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Mukip posted:My point was that racism was a symptom of slavery rather than a cause of it. I think you might be ignoring the possibility that both of these things would exist independent of each other regardless. One doesn't have to cause the other. edit: Just noticed that the OP seems to think that the Black Panthers were some evil/harmful group, haha. It's really depressing that so many white people have re-imagined the civil rights movement as something that MLK just rationally convinced everyone was a good idea or something. Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 22:01 on Jun 14, 2014 |
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Jun 14, 2014 21:55
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wateroverfire posted:If someone started in with "all gay people <something>" and then told you to pat yourself on the head and shut up if it didn't apply to you specifically you'd have a lot to say about that. It's the same thing. I honestly think that the issue is less that people like you are bad or racist or something and more that you just have a really terrible imagination. Seriously, it isn't difficult to imagine why it would be extremely obnoxious for a group that doesn't face anything approaching the level of discrimination and other problems you face as a result of your race/gender/whatever to keep chiming in about their own feelings. Here is an example (and one of the only ones I can think of where a white person could legitimately complain about the way they're treated based on their race): Imagine that you're some white (or any non-Japanese race) dude living for the long term in Japan*. By all accounts this is supposed to be really difficult and uncomfortable because Japanese people are extremely racist and will generalize the gently caress out of you. Imagine that you're discussing with your fellow ex-pats the various problems you experience due to being white in Japan. Some Japanese guy you know decides to start talking about how he often feels uncomfortable about the expectations society has of him. Even though his feelings and issues might be genuine, they're not really relevant to the discussion at hand. And this is being very generous. A more accurate (to the discussion in this thread) analogy might be one where said Japanese dude is complaining about how it personally offends him that white/black minorities complain about their treatment by other Japanese people. It shouldn't be difficult to imagine why people are bothered by the sort of attitudes you and a few other posters in this thread have had. Most decent people will take others at their word when they say "hey, doing this bothers me" and not be offended by it. As others have said, you need to ask yourself why you feel the need to chime in with how much it bothers you that white/male voices sometimes aren't appreciated. *There aren't really many countries where being white is worse than being another race and doesn't confer any number of benefits.
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Jun 18, 2014 23:22
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JeffersonClay posted:The latter statement reinforces racist stereotypes through hyperbole. The former statement raises awareness about the extent of racism in america with hyperbole. I think racist stereotypes are repulsive, but raising awareness of racism in America is not. Do you think raising awareness of racism in America is repulsive? Or do you think that making statements that are not perfectly accurate is more repulsive than racism itself? Thinking people want to know. I sort of understand where posters like natetimm or enbot are coming from, but I can only understand it in terms of the way I thought about things like race as a child. I thought that some people were bad racists and others weren't in a very black/white sense and would have been deeply offended if someone implied that I was a racist. My feelings about black people more or less reflected my father's, and could probably be summed up as "there are black people and then there are niggers LOL"; the modern sort of racism where people don't think all, or even most, black people are bad, but sure as hell are willing to stereotype them*. I think that the majority of people are actually like this; I don't think I've ever met someone who feels the need to emphasize that they aren't a racist who didn't, in fact, have a bunch of pretty racist views. But I honestly can't understand where they're coming from as an adult who should have the capacity for things like empathy. Yes, this post is condescending. But it's also 100% true and sometimes if you act dumb you'll be treated as such. I don't think there's any way to convince people who aren't capable of the empathy/imagination necessary to understand why their actions/beliefs are wrong/harmful. *A good way of describing it is that people like this will make statements like "I saw a black person who did ____" or "black people are often like ____" in a context where you'd never hear the same thing with "white people" substituted. edit: Just as a side thing, it amuses me how there's this generalization that the "SJW" people in this thread are gender studies majors working retail jobs or something (not that there's anything really wrong with this). I'm a computer programmer with a business (information systems) degree, and I imagine other similar posters in this thread don't fit the stereotype either.
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Jun 19, 2014 04:29
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wateroverfire posted:However, that poo poo (complaining by expats) can get really offensive and unfair and it's on the people who want their safe place to let loose to make sure they're doing it in a friendly forum and not out in public where other people are going to get the wrong idea. I don't think there's a right to throw bile in peoples faces and expect them not to have anything to say about it. So basically you're saying that minorities should watch their tone and that it's wrong for them to act angry and okay for others to intrude in their discourse because they're offended (I'm only saying this rhetorically since this actually is exactly what you're saying). In any system where a privileged majority and disenfranchised minority (that is obviously disenfranchised due to the actions of the majority) exist, you can't blame the minority for getting very angry and maybe even using some offensive language. The fact that you choose to focus on what you perceive to be wrong with their actions is what is really hosed up and wrong here. Why is it that you prioritize this when choosing to take place in these discussions? This is a really obvious trend with your posting in general (and other posters similar to you, like natetimm). You almost never talk about the actual harmful discrimination that is inflicted upon minorities by whites/the majority; it's always about how you're offended with the tone or some concern troll about how you think that them being angry or insulting isn't going to be effective. Literally no one is saying that laws should be passed banning white people from rudely inserting themselves into minority discussions about racism/bigotry. No one is trying to force you not to say anything. They're saying that if you do so you're an rear end in a top hat. edit: VitalSigns posted:The plight of Asian Americans bearing the brunt of affirmative action wasn't his complaint. His complaint was that a well-off recent immigrant from Nigeria will have a better application than a poor black kid from Mississippi so the benefits of Affirmative Action to black people will tend to accrue to them, and thus according to him it's just a way for classist Nigerians to entrench their privilege over impoverished African Americans. As a side not related to this, apparently there's actually a big problem where the black population of elite schools like Harvard consists mostly of rich African immigrants, rather than African Americans. Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 18:51 on Jun 19, 2014 |
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Jun 19, 2014 18:48
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