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nice obelisk idiot
May 18, 2023

funerary linens looking like dishrags

Jrbg posted:

Heath posted:

For some reason when I think of Proust I think of the scene where he is horse-playing with Gilberte and gets so riled up he jizzes in his pants because it made me cackle
Why would that not have happened

mdemone posted:

I want someone to ask Knausgård what he thinks of Proust.
lol

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nice obelisk idiot
May 18, 2023

funerary linens looking like dishrags
Maybe they should issue revised classics in a transitions to lit type series... like Anna Karenina could be a badass elite bodyguard who wields dual chainswords on top of the intense humanistic character studies.

nice obelisk idiot
May 18, 2023

funerary linens looking like dishrags

Gaius Marius posted:

I read The Cantos and now I never want to see a piece of poetry again
"At seventy I realized that instead of being a lunatic, I was a moron."

The sketches for the last incomplete Canto are more interesting than anything else in them
https://www.adranda.co.uk/single-post/2016/12/12/the-cantos-notes-for-cxvii-et-seq-ezra-pound

e: it's hard to find an author repudiating their life's work in as strong of terms as Pound does here. and shows some bitterly earned insight

quote:

M’amour, m’amour
what do I love
where are you?
That I lost my centre
fighting the world.
The dreams clash
and are shattered -
and that I tried to make a paradiso
terrestre.
I have tried to write Paradise
Do not move
Let the wind speak
that is paradise.
Lets the Gods forgive what I
have made
Let those I love try to forgive
What I have made.

nice obelisk idiot fucked around with this message at 09:13 on Nov 22, 2023

nice obelisk idiot
May 18, 2023

funerary linens looking like dishrags

Mel Mudkiper posted:

its weird because I have hosed off to a community where I try to be more positive and supportive of people but I also constantly have to deal with my desire to make fun of the warhammer person until they jump in front of a train
Well, constantly having to deal with your feelings re: that sounds like a good avenue to becoming more positive and supportive, so I guess you're set. Maybe you should thank them. Once you feel enough gratitude, maybe make a commentary on what they're reading, relating it to more complex or nuanced fiction. Or get to know them better, and find out exactly where their emotional constraints lie, then gently guide towards things that may be enriching for them. :D

nice obelisk idiot
May 18, 2023

funerary linens looking like dishrags
Sorry. Anyways I'm taking a shot at Anna Karenina before getting back to the benighted state of 'being gainfully employed'. Just started.

nice obelisk idiot
May 18, 2023

funerary linens looking like dishrags
There's 𒀭𒅎𒂂 (Anzû), the gigantic half-lion, half-eagle demon/dragon who was also said to be half-man. It was slain by the god Ninurta in the Epic of Anzû. It also had a snake for a dick for some reason. The Sumerians had a lot going on.

nice obelisk idiot
May 18, 2023

funerary linens looking like dishrags

DeimosRising posted:

three halves??
This short article may help. https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/mereology/

nice obelisk idiot
May 18, 2023

funerary linens looking like dishrags

Bilirubin posted:

just started in on Don Quixote and it is very funny and difficult to put down
I love early modern stuff. People were better then. Except when they weren't.

Rabelais, Prologue to Gargantua and Pantagruel posted:

Did you ever pick the lock of a cupboard to steal a bottle of wine out of it? Tell me truly, and, if you did, call to mind the countenance which then you had. Or, did you ever see a dog with a marrowbone in his mouth,—the beast of all other, says Plato, lib. 2, de Republica, the most philosophical? If you have seen him, you might have remarked with what devotion and circumspectness he wards and watcheth it: with what care he keeps it: how fervently he holds it: how prudently he gobbets it: with what affection he breaks it: and with what diligence he sucks it. To what end all this? What moveth him to take all these pains? What are the hopes of his labour? What doth he expect to reap thereby? Nothing but a little marrow. True it is, that this little is more savoury and delicious than the great quantities of other sorts of meat, because the marrow (as Galen testifieth, 5. facult. nat. & 11. de usu partium) is a nourishment most perfectly elaboured by nature.

In imitation of this dog, it becomes you to be wise, to smell, feel and have in estimation these fair goodly books, stuffed with high conceptions, which, though seemingly easy in the pursuit, are in the cope and encounter somewhat difficult. And then, like him, you must, by a sedulous lecture, and frequent meditation, break the bone, and suck out the marrow,—that is, my allegorical sense, or the things I to myself propose to be signified by these Pythagorical symbols, with assured hope, that in so doing you will at last attain to be both well-advised and valiant by the reading of them: for in the perusal of this treatise you shall find another kind of taste, and a doctrine of a more profound and abstruse consideration, which will disclose unto you the most glorious sacraments and dreadful mysteries, as well in what concerneth your religion, as matters of the public state, and life economical.
A book about disgusting giants loving and farting with alleged deep spiritual knowledge hidden in it. Nothing as good as that could come out today.

nice obelisk idiot
May 18, 2023

funerary linens looking like dishrags

Blurred posted:

... so we should discuss how appraisals of "bad and lazy art" are to be made? I started this derail with the desire to understand this text:

I ask the "real literature" thread openly and sincerely, because I assume you guys know what you're talking about, and because I am probably a gigantic idiot: am I missing something here? Is there something anyone can point to which they believe grants this text some artistic merit? Or is it fine to dismiss it as "bad and lazy"? And how should that judgement impact our estimation of other works of literature that we don't "get"?
I'm going to get a little pretentious here, but I feel like I got something out of that.

Here's a quote that I feel like applies: "The meaning is not in the words, yet it responds to the inquiring impulse." It's fairly koan-like, in that it evokes connections between sense impressions and affective states in a way that is on the surface near-nonsense. It makes some sense to me after some slow, deliberate chewing on, but not really with active cognition.

The first line is largely a domestic starting point with some associations with eggs and feeling satisfied. "cunning shawl" evokes a sort of habitual pretense and a corresponding physical defensiveness, which ties in with eggshells. Maybe noticing that tension while sitting down to eat eggs. Repetition of white obviously represents and emphasizes purity and light, and is a vector (the belt indicates linearity) towards a contrast and overtaking of darkness.

Cow's shame is sort of a stupid animal aversion to that reality, and bite is sort of a breaking point, a snapping, and obviously fits with eating an egg. Cut up alone the paved way to me is sort of following along with the expected course of life, which can be harmful for people who are wounded or different- like Stein. The last sentence is something like that harm, and interpersonal harm more generally is not novel, it's an existing vehicle. One that is probably is related to people running from the difficulty and complexity of life. And dash brings it back to putting salt on eggs.

nice obelisk idiot
May 18, 2023

funerary linens looking like dishrags
Okay yeah I went way out there as an overreaction to the slightly 'my kid could draw this' response to it. But there is structure and intention in Tender Buttons. I don't think that my reading was alien to the method of the work, which as said previously was influenced by James' psychology, and possibly by then-influential Freudian approaches to the subconscious and unconscious.

I think there's a difference between that poem and say someone in a poetry class trying to imitate it, and I don't think it's simply the cultural cachet of a famous figure in modernism or its importance historically. I at least think it's better art than the Yoko Ono dirt piles (there's even better dirt pile art installations than that) or maybe controversially Jackson Pollock.

nice obelisk idiot fucked around with this message at 13:48 on Mar 5, 2024

nice obelisk idiot
May 18, 2023

funerary linens looking like dishrags
Mishima could see certain things about people very well, but not others. And as said previously he had a good deal of awareness about this fact but not how to break out of it. This got worse with him finding a "solution" in fascism, which was also synonymous with homosexuality and suicidality in him, and was obviously related to how he was wounded in life. Which is why that element of him is still interesting, if obviously wrong and abhorrent.

Imo he was at his best when he was seeing the horizons of his world and the weakness in himself and those around him, without filtering that through a totalizing value system as much as he did later.

That being said, I'm not a big lover of Mishima because I find the things outside of his limitations more interesting than those within.

nice obelisk idiot
May 18, 2023

funerary linens looking like dishrags
Yeah, it has been a long time since I've read Bradbury, but I'd say the opposite. His strength was in his intense moment-to-moment imagination, and the lucidity with which he portrayed people and settings. So simple ideas could be satisfying as they are grounded in earthier movements.

Some of his ideas would be bad in other otherwise competent hands imo. And his raw talent could make loose thinking a good thing. Like his understanding of Fahrenheit 451 changed as he aged, and not for the better. I feel like the real inspiration and idea was very simple- destroying beauty and meaning is ugly and hurts. And there was a lot of it in the air in the 30s-50s, so the meaning was obvious regardless of who was doing the destroying. But when he tries to square that with the 90s, it turns into 'the world is changing in good and bad ways, i'm old and can't process it. time to use this as a vehicle to complain about the homosexual agenda and being PC'

nice obelisk idiot fucked around with this message at 06:33 on Apr 17, 2024

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nice obelisk idiot
May 18, 2023

funerary linens looking like dishrags
IMO that was a great example of what I remember liking from Bradbury. It's a feast for the senses, and kind of takes me back towards imagining stuff in the way that I did when I was younger.

I like the shades of meaning of the last line. If you've ever worked around fire, it does feel like that, like you're being blasted back, but there's a sort of joy and grit in tolerating it. But it also goes deeper into his character, like his personhood was singed and driven back by the flame of the world in which he lives, and his fierce grin is also from that. Like that's how he copes.

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