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How come soldiers in the past never had this? or did they ? Hacking other humans to pieces with a sword must be more traumatic than shooting someone from 50ft.
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Jun 19, 2014 15:59
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Decebal posted:How come soldiers in the past never had this? or did they ? Hacking other humans to pieces with a sword must be more traumatic than back in the day there was the battle then the battle was over and you were dead or retreating or you won. starting around the Civil War you were pretty much in a battle the entire duration of the war. it's a much different experience. also the casualty numbers in war were way way lower than they have been since the Napoleonic era
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Jun 19, 2014 16:01
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Decebal posted:How come soldiers in the past never had this? or did they ? Hacking other humans to pieces with a sword must be more traumatic than a lot of the hosed up poo poo that happened in the distant past could be attributed to everyone being a drunkard with ptsd
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Jun 19, 2014 16:06
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indigi posted:real talk you volunteered you loving babies. man up and kill yourself our school brought in a veteran to give a speech to a bunch of high schoolers about how war gave his life purpose and meaning, just as the Iraq war was kicking off like not even "this was a necessary evil" but literally "yeah going off to kill people was a wonderful formative experience!"
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Jun 19, 2014 16:08
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Pre Industrial Warfare war was really different and resulted in less ptsd.
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Jun 19, 2014 16:10
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get hosed commies 
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Jun 19, 2014 16:18
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What about ptsd from getting raped while in the military
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Jun 19, 2014 16:31
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Decebal posted:How come soldiers in the past never had this? or did they ? Hacking other humans to pieces with a sword must be more traumatic than They probably did, one of the more famous books on ptsd by some doctor actually uses the illiad as a framing device and talks about how it dramatizes classic ptsd features http://books.google.com/books/about/Achilles_in_Vietnam.html?id=CEYDySjS0UwC http://www.achillesinvietnam.com/dr-shay/ OXBALLS DOT COM fucked around with this message at 17:44 on Jun 19, 2014 |
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Jun 19, 2014 16:33
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Cream_Filling posted:They probably did, one of the more famous books on ptsd by some doctor actually uses the illiad as a framing device and talks about how it dramatizes classic ptsd features This is interesting stuff, thanks for posting it. I wish there wore more articles/books comparing how soldiers react to different types of warfare.
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Jun 19, 2014 16:43
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Decebal posted:This is interesting stuff, thanks for posting it. I wish there wore more articles/books comparing how soldiers react to different types On Killing by dave grossman is another interesting book to check out if you're interested in the psychology of combat
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Jun 19, 2014 16:46
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Decebal posted:This is interesting stuff, thanks for posting it. I wish there wore more articles/books comparing how soldiers react to different types the book talks about it to some extent Combat trauma destroys the capacity for social trust, accounting for the paranoid state of being that blights the lives of the most severely traumatized combat veterans. This is not a selective mistrust directed at a specific individual or institution that has betrayed its charge, but a comprehensive destruction of social trust. Lies and euphemisms by the soldier’s own military superiors and civilian leaders of course undermine social trust by destroying confidence in language. Perversion of language and destruction of the trustworthy meaning of words by official lies were not new to the Vietnam War. This is well known and need not be elaborated here. What has been largely overlooked, however, is the way that enemy activities contribute to the destruction of a soldier’s social trust. The enemy does severe damage to a part of mental function that is critical to the maintenance of social trust: the trustworthiness of perception. In Vietnam the enemy struck not only at the body but also at the most basic functions of the soldier’s mind, attacking his perceptions by concealment; his cognitions by camouflage and deception; his intentions by surprise, anticipation, and ambush. These mind games have been part of war since time immemorial, but never in American military experience have they been directed so skillfully and with such thoroughness at the enlisted man as in Vietnam. Our historical image of surprise and deception focuses on the strategies of leaders and commanders, such as Germany’s surprise attack on the Soviet Union or the successful ruse that convinced German leadership that the invasion of France would land at Pas de Calais rather than Normandy. These deceptions were directed at the high command. Our images of the bitter fighting among the hedgerows of Normandy do not include booby-trapped wine bottles or French babies sitting in the road atop command-detonated mines. Only 3 to 4 percent of American casualties in World War II and Korea were from booby traps, while 11 percent of the deaths and 17 percent of the injuries in Vietnam were from these lowest-echelon attacks of surprise and deception. American soldiers literally felt tortured by their Vietnamese enemy. Prolonged patrolling in Vietnam led to a decomposition of the normal, the familiar, the safe. Every familiar item of the physical world could be made to be or to conceal an explosive by the Vietnamese, whether a shiny aluminum rice carrier, a Parker-51 fountain pen, a bicycle, a coconut. Coke cans, C-ration cans, and discarded American artillery-shell casings. The trained, safest response to being fired upon was to take cover; the Vietcong prepared some ambush sites with small boards mounted with barbed spikes, which they would conceal in the vegetation, spike side up. When American troops dove for cover, they would impale themselves on the spikes. In such warfare nothing is what it seems; all certainties liquefy; stable truths turn into their opposites. I see a deep similarity between the experience of the Vietnam combat soldier and the victim of torture. Describing torture, Elaine Scarry writes, The contents of the [torture] room, its furnishings, are converted into weapons: the most common instance of this is the bathtub that figures prominently in the reports from numerous countries, but it is only one among many. Men and women being tortured … describe being handcuffed in a constricted position for hours, days, and in some cases months to a chair, to a cot, to a filing cabinet, to a bed; they describe being beaten with “family-sized soft drink bottles” or having a hand crushed with a chair, of having their heads “repeatedly banged on the edges of a refrigerator door.”… The room … is converted into a weapon, … made to demonstrate that everything is a weapon, the objects themselves, and with them the fact of civilization, are annihilated: there is no wall, no window, no door, no bathtub, no refrigerator, no chair, no bed.10 Prolonged contact with the enemy in war destroys the soldier’s confidence in his own mental functions as surely as would prolonged torture in a political prison. The opportunity to fight back, which the soldier enjoys but the prisoner does not, may not make much difference. Without confidence in one’s own mental functions, ordinary economic, political, and domestic life becomes virtually impossible.
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Jun 19, 2014 17:21
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The social institution of modern war makes the soldier a captive, but unlike other forms of captivity, the role of his captor is continuously shared by the enemy and the soldier’s own army. Imagine for a moment a conventional war with a defined front line and rear areas on both sides of the front line. If a soldier flees the terror of the battle, it makes no difference in which direction he flees. He flees toward death or imprisonment no matter which direction he takes. If he flees toward the enemy he may be shot out of hand when his surrender is not accepted, or he may be imprisoned as a POW. If he flees toward his own rear, he may be summarily shot or imprisoned as a deserter. The front line is thus a narrow zone of fear and death lying between two prisons. In this narrow zone two massive social organizations compete to enslave the soldier. The social institution of war creates total captivity with opposing armies working in perfect harmony to keep the soldiers in place and at each other.
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Jun 19, 2014 17:22
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My innercity high school had recruitment offices for the navy, army and marines built inside it. We heard pitches all the time. After 9/11, classes like economics and history would be canceled for a whole week just to hear their talks. Every class was canceled at least once. One navy guy said you could do anything you wanted in the navy. He said if you wanted to be a piano player in the navy, all you had to do was ask.
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Jun 19, 2014 17:23
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ProperCoochie posted:He said if you wanted to be a piano player in the navy, all you had to do was ask. want to be that guy with a hook cane who reaches from offstage to grab people and drag them away when they're loving up real bad
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Jun 19, 2014 17:54
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ProperCoochie posted:My innercity high school had recruitment offices for the navy, army and marines built inside it. We heard pitches all the time. After 9/11, classes like economics and history would be canceled for a whole week just to hear their talks. Every class was canceled at least once.  Pretend I posted this for the entire page.
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Jun 19, 2014 17:59
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Torka posted:a lot of the hosed up poo poo that happened in the distant past could be attributed to everyone being a drunkard with ptsd yeah also this also it was ok to beat your wife/children to death which probably helped a lot
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Jun 19, 2014 21:40
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Twee as gently caress posted:don't forget the goon who said he got panic attacks from twitter because he thought it was too overwhelming Hey that poo poo's exhausting, no one is funny 24/7.
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Jun 19, 2014 23:50
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support are troops
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Jun 19, 2014 23:57
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I've never actually held a real conversation with a veteran I just say "THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE" over whatever they are saying until their idiot brain starts to think about murdering someone or w/e and they leave me alone.
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Jun 20, 2014 02:12
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ablooo my PTSD *is a loving drone operator*
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Jun 20, 2014 02:13
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indigi posted:real talk you volunteered you loving babies. man up and kill yourself That must have been a great class. What did they teach you? I bet they didn't cover Vietnam.
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Jun 20, 2014 02:15
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how many cases of PTSD are actually the nigh-sociopathic average troop feeling guilt for his actions and not having any other means of comprehending the phenomenon
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Jun 20, 2014 02:16
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bushcutter posted:You are free to say things like this because of young men and women who gave their lives. We take our way of life for granted, it could all go away in a heartbeat. lol people say this irl out of sixth grade
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Jun 20, 2014 02:17
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Al Borland posted:That must have been a great class. What did they teach you? they taught us about ROTC and how you get money and then you go right into the army as an officer or like how in the Navy it's not just all boats guys you could be a nuclear engineer if you want and once your tour is done you'll have 50 power plants all begging for your services cause they love vets
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Jun 20, 2014 02:22
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Morkyz posted:wow, those men are fighting for your freedom and you're talking poo poo about them on the internet which they give their lives to protect? if you want people to stop joining the army just tell them they'll be fighting to protect you hey now, the guy was just trying to be edgy. calm down
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Jun 20, 2014 02:24
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if i am lied to by some mafia guys that they'll pay me a bunch of money if i drive around town delivering 10 harmless packages and i don't find out that they're bombs until i deliver the first one and it blows up a restaurant, should i suffer no punishment whatsoever what about if i finish the job after the first one goes off because i want the money and not to get in trouble with the mob
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Jun 20, 2014 02:27
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Tezzor posted:if i am lied to by some mafia guys that they'll pay me a bunch of money if i drive around town delivering 10 harmless packages and i don't find out that they're bombs until i deliver the first one and it blows up a restaurant, should i suffer no punishment whatsoever I dunno why don't you suck my dick about it
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Jun 20, 2014 02:29
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indigi posted:I dunno why don't you suck my dick about it the human decency and general remorse demonstrated by the average troop certainly makes it easier to empathize with them
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Jun 20, 2014 02:31
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Tezzor posted:if i am lied to by some mafia guys that they'll pay me a bunch of money if i drive around town delivering 10 harmless packages and i don't find out that they're bombs until i deliver the first one and it blows up a restaurant, should i suffer no punishment whatsoever the mob would detonate them as soon as you left their immediate vicinity and they'd get a ticker tape parade for job well done
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Jun 20, 2014 02:32
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Tezzor posted:the human decency and general remorse demonstrated by the average troop are we still talking about wildly unrealistic hypotheticals
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Jun 20, 2014 02:32
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*goes to middle east* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7JsLtcEAF4 *racked with ptsd*
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Jun 20, 2014 02:45
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Decebal posted:How come soldiers in the past never had this? or did they ? Hacking other humans to pieces with a sword must be more traumatic than For most of history the average career soldier was even more sociopathic than today because "you get to rape people and loot their corpses" was a selling point for recruitment.
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Jun 20, 2014 02:59
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MacFisticuffs posted:For most of history the average career soldier was even more sociopathic than today because "you get to rape people and loot their corpses" was a selling point for recruitment. It was the real bonus for when you captured a heavily fortified city.
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Jun 20, 2014 03:05
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ptsd is a made up disease for americans how many people in afghanistan, iraq or vietnam have been diagnosed with ptsd? first world problems for so called soldiers who could not take it ( because they are pussies ) General China fucked around with this message at 03:15 on Jun 20, 2014 |
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Jun 20, 2014 03:10
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deadtear posted:the mob would detonate them as soon as you left their immediate vicinity and they'd get a ticker tape parade for job well done
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Jun 20, 2014 04:00
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PTSD as a diagnosis was invented so that there were diagnostic codes to use to treat severely hosed up vietnam vets coming home. Because we're American, we quickly bastardized it and now use it as a catch-all for anything down to and including people who were upset by the last episode of Lost.General China posted:how many people in afghanistan, iraq or vietnam have been diagnosed with ptsd?
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Jun 20, 2014 04:03
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quote:
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Jun 20, 2014 04:04
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General China posted:ptsd is a made up disease for americans Yeah about that, http://www.rightdiagnosis.com/p/post_traumatic_stress_disorder/stats-country.htm So, no its not just the US. Helpimscared fucked around with this message at 04:46 on Jun 20, 2014 |
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Jun 20, 2014 04:43
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gently caress the troops car bomb didn't kill you? do the job yourself oorah
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Jun 20, 2014 04:58
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Better plan would be to do psychological screening and then give soldiers with the most problems the old yeller treatment. Also any marine returning home from combat would automatically be given the old yeller treatment.
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Jun 20, 2014 05:08
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