Alternative Identities, et. al.

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Alternative Identities, et. al.

PT6A: Jan 5, 2006; Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

To put it differently, we know that a human can be either a man or a woman, so it's conceivable (even incredibly likely) that whatever factors make someone "feel" like one or the other (or something in between) can go haywire in certain circumstances, causing a mismatch between an individual's perception of their own gender and their biological sex. On the other hand, we know that a human being cannot be a wolf or visa versa.

# ¿ Jun 18, 2014 21:51

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# ¿ May 22, 2024 09:02

PT6A: Jan 5, 2006; Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

Cantorsdust posted:

Another good way to put it would be that we have thousands of years of cultural history of people being gay or transgendered, but no such history for people who believe they are wolves. There's no evidence that there is an actual physiological or psychological phenomenon for the latter beyond a need for attention or to feel unique.

That's not strictly true. People dressing up as animals for various purposes, even if ceremonial and/or purely symbolic, has been a thing for a very long time. That still doesn't mean that we have to give the time of day to people who actually believe they are other animals on a more or less permanent basis.

# ¿ Jun 18, 2014 22:30

PT6A: Jan 5, 2006; Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

enbot posted:

People loving love being an oppressed victim.

For more evidence, look at how non-oppressed groups like "Christians in America" and "white men" love to claim they're the real victims.

# ¿ Jun 19, 2014 01:22

PT6A: Jan 5, 2006; Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

Mukip posted:

A caterpillar "transitions" into a butterfly; it was one thing and then it changed state and became something else. A biological male who believes he should be a female can undergo gender reassignment surgery, but he's still a biological male except his genitals have been mutilated into the broad semblance of an orifice. He has not transitioned into a new state of being; he has only attempted to ape a semblance of it.

I don't see how that's much different from a man deciding he's a wolf because he decided to wear a fursuit. It's mere impersonation.

How can it be medically necessary? A transsexual is not in danger of physical harm from not undergoing gender reassignment surgery. Arguably, they would be unhappier without the surgery (this appears to be a contested topic: http://www.theguardian.com/society/2004/jul/30/health.mentalhealth), but doing something to increase happiness does not match my definition of medical necessity. (Apparently 'medical necessity' is also an American legal term, in which case transexualism in the USA is considered medically necessary and can get public funding, but that's a separate non-philosophical answer.)

Gay people coming out of the closet is not a transition in the same sense either; it's merely revealing their pre-existing sexual orientation in public. I don't see how that is comparable to somebody going under the surgeons knife to feel closer to their sexual identity.

Transgender people don't simply "decide" to be the other gender, they are the other gender and the only thing that transitions is their gender presentation. Surgery, on genitals or otherwise, is not a necessary component of that, although some trans people may choose to undergo it.

# ¿ Jun 19, 2014 02:50

PT6A: Jan 5, 2006; Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

goatse.cx posted:

Is there any scientific basis for this?

Yes, studies have shown (for example) that the size of gender-specific regions in the brain in transgender people is consistent with their perceived gender instead of their biological sex. Also, like gay and lesbian people, many transgender people report knowing they were/are transgender since a very young age. There's a whole bunch of info on various studies on the Wikipedia page.

Finally, in case you're going to stick with the idea that it's simply a mental illness (which I suppose you could do with homosexuality too, if you want to be a backwards prick), it shouldn't really matter in terms of treatment, because the only treatment that's been consistently shown to remove gender dysphoria is transition. While others have pointed out that transgender people often suffer discrimination and violence during/after transition, there's a fundamental difference between that sort of suffering and the internal suffering that a transgender person feels as a result of dysphoria and/or not being able to present and live as their gender. Namely, the former can be fixed by other people not discriminating against or being violent toward trans people.

# ¿ Jun 19, 2014 03:10

PT6A: Jan 5, 2006; Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

Zeitgueist posted:

Hmm...People who claim to be upset with the "fringe Tumblr types" also have issues/ignorance with plain old transgendered people.

This is a shock.

No, I'm supportive of trans people (because it's a real thing), and I very much have a problem with weirdos like transethnics, otherkins, or people who have "headmates" (unless it's a mental illness, in which case it needs treatment instead of reinforcement anyway). Furries are a bit of a grey area -- I don't really give a gently caress what people do to get their rocks off, or if they just like dressing up as animals, but if they actually believe they are that animal, it's bizarre. The really offensive part is when people claim oppression based on others not recognizing that they're a dragon, or a fox or an angel. That's legitimately harmful to groups, like trans people, who face actual oppression and violence.

# ¿ Jun 19, 2014 19:15

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# ¿ May 22, 2024 09:02

PT6A: Jan 5, 2006; Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

WorldsStrongestNerd posted:

Would any of the posters making the claim that a transgendered person has the brain structure of the gender they identify with please link to the scientific study they are referencing? Id like to go thru and read it.

Here's one: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7477289

Here's another one: http://brain.oxfordjournals.org/content/131/12/3132

There's also a theory that transgenderism could be caused by prenatal hormone exposure of certain types:

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0306453005001770

# ¿ Jun 19, 2014 22:47

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Alternative Identities, et. al.