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"It is difficult to perceive just what the gently caress is happening here." -Thomas Pynchon, Gravity's Rainbow, page 512. What is Postmodernist Literature? Because I'm lazy, here's Wikipedia: Postmodern literature is literature characterized by heavy reliance on techniques like fragmentation, paradox, and questionable narrators, and is often (though not exclusively) defined as a style or trend which emerged in the post–World War II era. More on Postmodernism taken from James Herrick's History and Theory of Rhetoric Postmodernism is a reaction to the intellectual values and philosophical goals of the European Enlightenment of the eighteenth and early nineteenth centuries. During this period reason was elevated as our best hope of solving ancient human problems and creating a rational society. [...] The nineteenth-century philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche had already begun to question Enlightenment assumptions, and thus provided the seeds of a new or "postmodern" system of thought. [...] Postmodern thought questions both reason and progress, and rejects what Jean-Francois Lyotard termed, in his seminal work The Postmodern Condition, "meta-narratives," those grand explanatory schemes such as Christianity or capitalism that claim to account for the entirety of human history and the human condition. Postmodernism rejected even the notion of the autonomous subject or "self" as a sociolinguistic construction. In other words, Postmodernism challenged the very foundations of Western philosophy. [...] Lyotard suggested that "to enter the postmodern era... we must overcome our Enlightenment legacy by abandoning the quest for truth." [...] It is also the case that Lyotard found language to constitute the worlds we inhabit, not fixed and eternal realities. And, the possibilities in language for creating realities were numerous. Credit goes to Smoking Crow for finally getting me off my rear end to post this thread. I was hoping someone else would do it first. They'd probably do a better job of it, too. Instead of just summing up the Wikipedia Article, I'll just let you read it yourself if you like. I'm not much for making a big OP. For one, I'm not educated enough on the subject, and secondly, postmodernism is supposed to be hard, right? Instead, let's jump straight into discussion. I really enjoyed Don DeLillo's White Noise, but I found Underworld to be much less fun to read. It had hardly any humor at all, and I finally put a bookmark in it on page 500. I came across Libra and Mao II at a cheap book sale, so I picked them up. Are they a little lighter reading? What are some less popular postmodern writers that fans of the movement should explore? blue squares fucked around with this message at 20:16 on Dec 7, 2014 |
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Jun 19, 2014 20:48
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How about short fiction? Are there any good literary journals that are consistently publishing stories that are "Postmodern" or at least somewhat avant garde, DFW/Pynchonish type stuff? I've done some googling but didn't find anything to go on? I don't expect much response since I don't think many people read enough journals to know.
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Jun 20, 2014 00:39
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I hated 2666 and the widespread acclaim it received baffles me. I googled "2666 negative review" and found a couple that really put into words what I was feeling at the time. I actually enjoyed the Critics characters, mostly, but everything after that was very dull. The writing itself was always, on a technical level, either bad or just very plain. I thought the book was a waste of time and was a first draft that Bolano died before being able to revise. I've also never read any other Bolano stuff.
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Jun 21, 2014 13:39
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I came across an absolutely hilarious story in N+1, a quarterly journal. It's called Two Scenes, by Nell Zink. Here's a free preview: https://nplusonemag.com/issue-19/fiction-drama/two-scenes/ The full can only be seen in the mag, but your local bookstore may carry it. A great read for anyone who likes metafiction and humor. Also making an appearance as a character is Jonathan Franzen. I'm also a day or two from finishing Gravity's Rainbow and will be posting my thoughts when I do. blue squares fucked around with this message at 00:47 on Jun 23, 2014 |
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Jun 23, 2014 00:44
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I finished Gravity's Rainbow last week and meant to post a retrospective, but the forums crash threw me off. Wow. What a loving book. Infinite Jest is still my favorite novel because it is more relateable and the characters are much stronger, but never in my life have I read something like Gravity's Rainbow: so chock full of style, bursting from every sentence like a rocket. I don't even know what to say here that would do it justice other than that it is the most unique (excluding gimmick books, albeit still with some merit, such as House of Leaves or S.) novel I've ever come across. I strongly recommend it to anyone, but with the oft-repeated caveat that you have to simply accept that you will not come close to understanding all of it, or perhaps even most of it. The last 100 pages completely baffled me, but I was enamored with Pynchon's style that I kept going and loved it. I wanted to post a more in-depth examination to stimulate discussion of the book, but frankly, I don't think I'm qualified even for that. I know that I will return to the book soon and go through it with Weisenburger's companion, as my university has a copy in the library. I took a break from heavy reading with Donna Tartt's The Secret History (not a postmodern book), but I'm starting in on Mason & Dixon tonight. I can't wait to see what I'm in for.
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Jul 4, 2014 02:43
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Note how Mason & Dixon begins: the snowballs have flown their arcs. If you're familiar with Gravity's Rainbow, you'll realize that right away Pynchon is saying "this book will be fun and light."
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Oct 13, 2014 14:45
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Bilirubin posted:I am glad to read this. I'm about 100 pages into my most recent attempt on this book--I tried it before when I was probably far too young and cocky. So far it is mostly making sense--as long as I don't try to understand every damned thing being said. Instead, I'm reading each section as a movie scene being crafted by Pynchon in my head and it is working really well for me so far. I'm actually engaged with it for the first time I'm glad I could help. It's a really rewarding book, ESPECIALLY when you get to section two. Section two is a little more straight-forward.
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Dec 1, 2014 01:37
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Mr. Squishy posted:One of the things I like about Underworld's opening is how he locates all of the film-stars. Can you elaborate on why you like this and what you think DeLillo is saying? It's a good point for discussion about what it means both for the book and for "postmodernism in general." When I first made this thread it was because I liked the authors that were lumped into the category of "Postmodern." Now I've learned a bit more about it this semester. from History and Theory of Rhetoric by James Herrick: Postmodernism is a reaction to the intellectual values and philosophical goals of the European Enlightenment of the eighteenth and early nineteenth centuries. During this period reason was elevated as our best hope of solving ancient human problems and creating a rational society. [...] The nineteenth-century philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche had already begun to question Enlightenment assumptions, and thus provided the seeds of a new or "postmodern" system of thought. [...] Postmodern thought questions both reason and progress, and rejects what Jean-Francois Lyotard termed, in his seminal work The Postmodern Condition, "meta-narratives," those grand explanatory schemes such as Christianity or capitalism that claim to account for the entirety of human history and the human condition. Postmodernism rejected even the notion of the autonomous subject or "self" as a sociolinguistic construction. In other words, Postmodernism challenged the very foundations of Western philosophy. [...] Lyotard suggested that "to enter the postmodern era... we must overcome our Enlightenment legacy by abandoning the quest for truth." [...] It is also the case that Lyotard found language to constitute the worlds we inhabit, not fixed and eternal realities. And, the possibilities in language for creating realities were numerous. blue squares fucked around with this message at 19:10 on Dec 7, 2014 |
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Dec 7, 2014 18:22
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Falstaff Infection posted:All literature is fanfiction, though. Shakespeare is Holinshed fanfiction. Cormac McCarthy is Faulkner fanfiction. This is stupid and so is the assertion that House of Leaves is Borges fanfiction. I'm not commenting on the quality of the work but trying to discount artistic influences as just "fanfiction" is so silly.
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Dec 7, 2014 21:23
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Mr. Squishy you just missed a golden opportunity to convince Jerome that Gaddis was doing a one-off pomo gag with an intentionally ripped page.
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Oct 18, 2015 14:45
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I've yet to read any Gaddis. I'm not currently reading any fiction and have been feeling the need to get a novel going. I always thought it would be better to start with Recognitions but JR, from what I hear, is the better read.
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Oct 18, 2015 15:49
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Toph Bei Fong posted:It certainly contains elements that would later be identified as post-modern, but that sort of distancing from the narrative wasn't uncommon. Metafiction is a trick that postmodern authors used. It's not at all what made their works postmodern. Their ideology is. Read the OP
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Jun 20, 2016 20:32
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A human heart posted:What is their ideology? That it's impossible to understand the world, other people, and sometimes even yourself. That's the very short version
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Jun 21, 2016 00:50
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