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GaussianCopula posted:As soon as unions get to much power the quality of service will decline. This is why your small town police department has not to much problems but the police forces of a bigger city will be pretty bad. It's basicly the same problem that teacher unions create for the education system. What?
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Jun 29, 2014 19:26
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meat sweats posted:By definition it is undemocratic. We correctly choose to prevent certain things, enshrined in Constitutional amendments, from the democratic process -- no majority should be able to vote to make it illegal for certain racial groups to vote or ban gay people from getting married, and no majority can abridge the freedom of speech, or to bear arms, or so forth. There is no legitimate way that "allowing police to do whatever they want" or a specific benefits package for teachers falls under this umbrella. Factually, it does not (it is not in the Constitution). Morally, treating police behavior as outside the democratic process is abhorrent. On a more mundane level, things like how much resources a state wants to devote to education or health care are exactly the sorts of things we are supposed to be voting on. Public employee unions are an attempt to take EVERYTHING outside the democratic process and turn it into a union boss and a politician, the latter of whom owes nothing to anyone outside the union and isn't playing with his own money, "negotiating" a corrupt bargain. That is how we arrived at the situation we are in with police and prison guards, not to mention why in California a judge recently ruled that teachers unions are a form of racial discrimination, since they have enshrined a system that creates failing schools in majority-black areas. So you're in favor of severely cutting teacher salaries and benefits, correct?
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Jun 30, 2014 00:27
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meat sweats posted:I'm in favor of not letting teachers declare they have no intention of complying with the law in those states where electorates have chosen to cut salaries and benefits. So, yes? Also, what do you think happens when the education budget is significantly cut? You think the teachers union prevents that from affecting the teachers or something?
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Jun 30, 2014 00:30
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meat sweats posted:The teachers go on strike until the budget is restored to the level they demand, irrespective of what the voters or their elected representatives have democratically chosen. This isn't what actually happens. Budgets have been cut in most of the country and what happens is some teachers are laid off and the remaining teachers take a pay cut after their next round of contract negotiations. And choosing between teachers unions and ending police abuse is a false choice. They aren't related.
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Jun 30, 2014 01:45
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meat sweats posted:Most NYPD cops make more than this when you put valuation on their benefits -- the base salary at 5 years service is six figures automatically before adding in the overtime rate and the endless benefit packages. I don't really care if some idiot in a rural county only makes $35K, though. It doesn't give him any more right to oppress people than the New York cops have. You aren't fooling anybody by throwing out things like "It doesn't give him any more right to oppress people than the New York cops have." Except maybe yourself?
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Jun 30, 2014 03:29
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