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Hey, TACAIR douches, how often do you guys exercise integrating into USN air defense structures? If you have, how similar are Navy and Air Force TTPs and what not? In general, how much do they teach you guys about CSG OPS? I ask because I'm a dork, and routinely read through Weapons School papers and it seems to me that the authors of them are only vaguely aware that the Navy exists at all, let alone how it operates. Edit: I guess ABM nerds can answer the question too. ManMythLegend fucked around with this message at 22:09 on Jul 23, 2014 |
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Jul 23, 2014 22:05
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TTPs for similar aircraft flying similar missions are as similar as you'd expect. There are absolutely joint exercises...I don't think any of my Red Flags had zero naval representation. The Weapons School emphasizes Air Force assets because the AF will almost always have the preponderance of air assets. The Navy and Marines combined were a drop in the ATO bucket for OEF and OIF. They might own the show initially but eventually the US will get basing capability in the area and almost immediately outnumber the Navy's assets even with two carriers in the area. Also, for most missions the AF has the more specialization. F-15s and F-22s will fly point before the 18s. For Day 1 strikes you're looking at bombers, not Hornets. SOF insertion? Probably the AF again. Tankers? AF. C2? One E-3 can handle the AOR of 2-3 E-2s as a pick-up mission. Now, who is going to be the best qualified to plan those out? Navy planners, who probably only work with AF assets 2-3 days per year (not counting tankers), or up to 3 weeks if they attend a major exercise? Or the AF guys who do it all the time? Also an AF general will be the JFACC as soon as the AF outnumbers the Navy, so there's that. Likewise, Navy exercises and NSAWC focus on naval assets. Godholio fucked around with this message at 22:54 on Jul 23, 2014 |
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Jul 23, 2014 22:46
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Godholio posted:
I get that. I guess what I was trying to say is that specifically in papers that deal with integration with Navy assets, a lot of what they are talking about isn't correct.
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Jul 23, 2014 23:14
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ManMythLegend posted:I get that. I guess what I was trying to say is that specifically in papers that deal with integration with Navy assets, a lot of what they are talking about isn't correct. start talking to the authors. get that silver oakleaf or eagle or whatever the gently caress grade you are
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Jul 24, 2014 00:59
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GoGoGadget posted:For those that have been med boarded out, how long after you had your visit at Andrews/VA assessment did you find out your percentages and all that? I went in late June and was told 6-12 months from that point, but have since checked in two patients that went about two months before me that are already out processing with ratings of 70 and 90 percent for knee and shoulder issues and fibromyalgia respectively. I had aortic valve repair and am hoping to get at least something close to that. I'm pretty sure you should know before you get out. I know a guy getting out in September sometime and he already knows he has 80% through the VA.
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Jul 24, 2014 01:02
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krispykremessuck posted:start talking to the authors. get that silver oakleaf or eagle or whatever the gently caress grade you are And sully myself with effort? Get out of my sight you filthy vermin.
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Jul 24, 2014 02:40
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ManMythLegend posted:I get that. I guess what I was trying to say is that specifically in papers that deal with integration with Navy assets, a lot of what they are talking about isn't correct. Ah. Honestly, from what I've seen in the 8th WPS (the C2 squadron of the Weapons School) the trend has finally caught on to send decent human beings who genuinely want to get this poo poo right and aren't afraid to learn. Try emailing them. If any of the wrong stuff was written by a C2 dude you can run the name by me...I know a lot of the guys who've gone through in the past couple of years. Hell, I instructed half of them, which is probably why they're getting poo poo wrong.
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Jul 24, 2014 02:41
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ManMythLegend posted:And sully myself with effort? Get out of my sight you filthy vermin. well obviously I meant task some ensign with it, jeez are you sure you're an officer
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Jul 24, 2014 02:45
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Godholio posted:Ah. Honestly, from what I've seen in the 8th WPS (the C2 squadron of the Weapons School) the trend has finally caught on to send decent human beings who genuinely want to get this poo poo right and aren't afraid to learn. Try emailing them. If any of the wrong stuff was written by a C2 dude you can run the name by me...I know a lot of the guys who've gone through in the past couple of years. Hell, I instructed half of them, which is probably why they're getting poo poo wrong. I'll have to go back and look, but in general it's lots of small stuff spread out across squadrons and papers. The one I saw today that got me thinking about it was from a 15E guy, so I realize that he's kind of out of his element when he's talking about battle space management. Also, I doubt there is any resident USN knowledge out there at the Weapons School so it's probably just guys fumbling around through whatever pubs they can dig up on SIPR. Truly I was just curious how much they teach you guys about how the Navy works given how many eggs are getting put in the Air-Sea Battle basket. I know from my side of the house, we get exactly zero training on how the Air Force does business, but the SWO community in general doesn't even pretend to try and teach real jointness until the senior O4, junior O5 level.
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Jul 24, 2014 02:56
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krispykremessuck posted:well obviously I meant task some ensign with it, jeez are you sure you're an officer Well since you Neanderthals normally operate only at the explicit level of discourse I wasn't expect you to make implicit statements amidst your grunts and smashing of keys.
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Jul 24, 2014 02:59
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ManMythLegend posted:Well since you Neanderthals normally operate only at the explicit level of discourse I wasn't expect you to make implicit statements amidst your grunts and smashing of keys. no I speak officer and neanderthal fluently at this point
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Jul 24, 2014 03:06
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krispykremessuck posted:no I speak officer and neanderthal fluently at this point Then it looks like I need to alert your masters.
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Jul 24, 2014 03:18
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ManMythLegend posted:I'll have to go back and look, but in general it's lots of small stuff spread out across squadrons and papers. The one I saw today that got me thinking about it was from a 15E guy, so I realize that he's kind of out of his element when he's talking about battle space management. Also, I doubt there is any resident USN knowledge out there at the Weapons School so it's probably just guys fumbling around through whatever pubs they can dig up on SIPR. I can only speak to my career field, really, but it's not terribly in-depth. We'd get tactical-level stuff, what we need to know for the mission in question, and some generalities. IE, F-18 intercept timeline, their comm priorities, that kind of thing. Legit joint ops stuff is touched on in PME a little, but again, nothing in depth (it's a waste of time in that environment, anyway). The good stuff comes from actually talking to people from the other services and working with them overseas or in exercises. Although we used to send instructors to the NSAWC course, and they would be the resident experts on naval ops. But we're talking...maybe 3 or 4 people out of five squadrons. A couple of WTI grads, too. I don't recall any Navy folks at the WS any of the times I was there...it seems odd now that I think about it, because AF people teach at NSAWC. I know one that's there now.
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Jul 24, 2014 03:30
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Godholio posted:I can only speak to my career field, really, but it's not terribly in-depth. We'd get tactical-level stuff, what we need to know for the mission in question, and some generalities. IE, F-18 intercept timeline, their comm priorities, that kind of thing. Legit joint ops stuff is touched on in PME a little, but again, nothing in depth (it's a waste of time in that environment, anyway). The good stuff comes from actually talking to people from the other services and working with them overseas or in exercises. Although we used to send instructors to the NSAWC course, and they would be the resident experts on naval ops. But we're talking...maybe 3 or 4 people out of five squadrons. A couple of WTI grads, too. I don't recall any Navy folks at the WS any of the times I was there...it seems odd now that I think about it, because AF people teach at NSAWC. I know one that's there now. You're an AWACS type ABM right?
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Jul 24, 2014 03:37
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ManMythLegend posted:Then it looks like I need to alert your masters. write a letter to cno complaining about one krispykremessucks on the something awful forums cracking the o-code
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Jul 24, 2014 03:38
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ManMythLegend posted:You're an AWACS type ABM right? He is. So am I. 
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Jul 24, 2014 03:49
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Helldump Immunity. posted:He is. You've got the stink of both airframes on you. Don't try to hide it. But yeah, I only did AWACS. However, the CRC (ground radar) guys bounce back and forth. A CRC is usually your second assignment after flying for a few years, then you get hosed and go back to Tinker.
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Jul 24, 2014 03:50
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Helldump Immunity. posted:He is. I get the feeling that you guys are like the SWOs of the Air Force. I know that feel bro.
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Jul 24, 2014 03:51
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Probably right. 
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Jul 24, 2014 03:55
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Helldump Immunity. posted:Probably right. I'm unsure though, because as a rule I generally don't like SWOs but you guys seem cool.
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Jul 24, 2014 04:01
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There's a bit of red-headed stepchild syndrome, probably because ABM used to be where they reclassed fighter pilot washouts and there was a generation of rear end in a top hat Weapons School grads who liked pretending to be/imitating the annoying poo poo about fighter pilots.
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Jul 24, 2014 04:05
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It doesn't help the AWO community that the shittiest ones get promoted to leadership. Generally the younger guys are pretty cool. I did a TDY to Guam a few years back and the senior AWO types hazed the poo poo out of the new guys. Like the new Lt dudes couldn't even go out drinking without being harassed. That kind of thing was bullshit.
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Jul 24, 2014 05:13
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Just wanted to chime in to say that boondoggle TDYs to Kauai that result in you getting to live in a beachfront cottage for a month on the government's dime are pretty cool.
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Jul 24, 2014 05:46
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You'll note that the two chill ABMs we've got here both got out. That's the tendency, and the poo poo attitude and good-old-boys bullshit was that generation of rear end in a top hat patches hooking up like-minded fuckwits. ABM patch with THREE loving DUIS on active duty made Lt Col! Give me a loving break. That group is all but gone now, I think they only have one or two left and they've probably topped out at O-5. One of my favorite BS "moments" was at a Green Flag at Nellis. This was around 2009 or whatever, when the entire fleet was grounded because someone decided that Jeppesen plates or TOLD data or something was no good under certain conditions that apparently hadn't come up in thirty loving years. Naturally it was like 4pm on a Friday when they flipped the switch, so there was almost nobody working on the problem over the weekend. It took several days to get poo poo sorted, but our MCC (who fancied herself friends with Lori Robinson, the WG/CC at the time) was expecting a one-time waiver to fly home or a solution. So we went into crew rest at 7pm every night in anticipation of a green light to fly the exercise sortie and land back home. Naturally, that didn't happen and we didn't fly a single loving sortie for the exercise, nor did we get to go out after dark the whole time. She's the only MCC I ever saw kick an AWO to the back of the jet. In the middle of one of the busiest OEF sorties I'd ever been on. He disagreed with her on something, and he was actually right. She also made the announcement that there's only one true ABM on the jet, and that's the MCC. And I'm pretty sure she had to sew two flight suits together to get it to fit.
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Jul 24, 2014 05:46
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drat dude, you really do have a hard time letting go of the pain from your past life.
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Jul 24, 2014 15:41
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All pilots removed from the FY15 involuntary separations matrix. I have mixed feelings about this, I put in for next summers BD-700 deployment and wanted to be RIFd upon my return.
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Jul 24, 2014 17:10
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Rekinom posted:drat dude, you really do have a hard time letting go of the pain from your past life. It gave me PTSD.
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Jul 24, 2014 20:39
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xaarman posted:All pilots removed from the FY15 involuntary separations matrix. I have mixed feelings about this, I put in for next summers BD-700 deployment and wanted to be RIFd upon my return. Ugh gently caress you air force, the only ones getting RIFd at this point are us 12Ms and some rear end in a top hat engineers. The numbers didn't even change for us wtf, I know like ten people that have bailed since then!
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Jul 26, 2014 18:22
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Since I've been on a grand high ripping on blue squares for being a writer, I'm reminded of the AWO in my squadron back in Alaska who actually published a book. It was some lovely sci-fi novel. What made it stand out is that he wrote another AWO's wife into the novel and had the main character (him) gently caress her a bunch of times. Godholio, you might know the guy.
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Jul 29, 2014 04:39
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My self published cuck
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Jul 29, 2014 06:02
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holocaust bloopers posted:Since I've been on a grand high ripping on blue squares for being a writer, I'm reminded of the AWO in my squadron back in Alaska who actually published a book. It was some lovely sci-fi novel. What made it stand out is that he wrote another AWO's wife into the novel and had the main character (him) gently caress her a bunch of times. Godholio, you might know the guy.  I need a name. I know most of the AWOs up there in that timeframe.
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Jul 29, 2014 07:18
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iyaayas01 posted:Just wanted to chime in to say that boondoggle TDYs to Kauai that result in you getting to live in a beachfront cottage for a month on the government's dime are pretty cool. In non-AWACS news, this is what your tax dollars are going towards: 
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Jul 29, 2014 07:36
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iyaayas01 posted:In non-AWACS news, this is what your tax dollars are going towards: It's either this or the F-35. At least you can play golf in the rain.
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Jul 29, 2014 08:23
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Hang all pilots
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Jul 29, 2014 12:51
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Whats the problem with SWOs? I hate my life just as much as anybody else in the Air Force.
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Jul 29, 2014 15:53
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http://edition.cnn.com/2014/07/29/world/europe/germany-plane-body-found/index.html?c=world This was fun
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Jul 29, 2014 21:37
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Ebola spreads to the western world thanks to the failure of Phoenix Raven.
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Jul 29, 2014 23:56
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holocaust bloopers posted:Since I've been on a grand high ripping on blue squares for being a writer, I'm reminded of the AWO in my squadron back in Alaska who actually published a book. It was some lovely sci-fi novel. What made it stand out is that he wrote another AWO's wife into the novel and had the main character (him) gently caress her a bunch of times. Godholio, you might know the guy. We had a guy writing a fantasy novel with himself as the self-insert main character. Never did get to read it though
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Jul 30, 2014 06:34
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Prop Wash posted:We had a guy writing a fantasy novel with himself as the self-insert main character. Never did get to read it though We had a guy like that but then he got busted for kiddy porn.
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Jul 30, 2014 10:01
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Prop Wash posted:We had a guy writing a fantasy novel with himself as the self-insert main character. Never did get to read it though We had a med tech like that. Into anime, too, iirc. Nice guy in general, but I'm sure his father died a little inside.
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Jul 30, 2014 17:20
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