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Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea
OK, so the fourth level spell Death Ward makes you immune to save-or-die spells for eight hours. It's always a sign of a good, fun game mechanic that there's a spell that just straight-up nullifies it. (EG: 3e grapple rules, Freedom of Movement spell)

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dwarf74
Sep 2, 2012



Buglord

Nancy_Noxious posted:

This is AWESOME!

Why must the system be lovely, WHY?!
Hey it persuaded me not to cancel my pre-orders.

Rulebook Heavily
Sep 18, 2010

by FactsAreUseless

dwarf74 posted:

Hey it persuaded me not to cancel my pre-orders.



It giveth, it taketh away. (See also Zak S, transphobe extraordinaire, in the credits of the book that has that Sex paragraph in it.)

Nihilarian
Oct 2, 2013


Rulebook Heavily posted:



It giveth, it taketh away. (See also Zak S, transphobe extraordinaire, in the credits of the book that has that Sex paragraph in it.)
Who is Zak S?

LFK
Jan 5, 2013

MonsterEnvy posted:

Apparently Concentration can be interrupted as well.
There were literally 0 creatures in the playtest that interrupted concentration, but now damage can interrupt Concentration, where before it was "significant distraction (read: DM fiat)". Now, this is interesting: it's DC 10 base or DC 1/2 the damage taken Con Save which means at later levels Concentration can be pretty difficult to maintain.

Laphroaig
Feb 6, 2004

Drinking Smoke
Dinosaur Gum

Nihilarian posted:

Who is Zak S?

An rear end in a top hat and a derail.

Also, Death Ward is, the first time you would go to 0 HP, or the first time a spell would kill you outright, instead you are at 1 HP or the spell is negated.

Anyone notice fireball got a bump to 8d6 damage? I can't figure out why...

I've been consistently playing D&D Next because I am a dumb babby idiot, but honestly the Basic set is giving me a way stronger 3.5 vibe than the October playtest did. In many ways, I prefer the 2E "DM Fiat" of the playtest to the 3.5 "DC 10 + 1/2 X" feel of a lot of mechanics in basic rules.

Plus sides: Great layout and formatting, the use of fantasy quotes is good.
Down sides: I don't like the way they word some mechanics, its the "conversational" style which just feels unnecessarily wordy; it doesn't say something interesting, it just uses a lot of words to describe a rule mechanic.

Laphroaig fucked around with this message at 21:51 on Jul 3, 2014

Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea

Laphroaig posted:

Also, Death Ward is, the first time you would go to 0 HP, or the first time a spell would kill you outright, instead you are at 1 HP or the spell is negated.

No, it's not.

The "go to 1 HP instead of dying" thing only affects HP damage.

The "save-or-die effects" part is outright immunity, not "survive on 1 HP".

You touch a creature and grant it a measure of protection from death.

The first time the target would drop to 0 hit points as a result of taking damage, the target instead drops to 1 hit point, and the spell ends.

If the spell is still in effect when the target is subjected to an effect that would kill it instantaneously without dealing damage, that effect is instead negated against the target, and the spell ends.

Agent Boogeyman
Feb 17, 2005

"This cannot POSSIBLY be good. . ."
Okay, so looking at the ability score generation, is it just me or are they basically throwing a huge "gently caress you!" to anyone who doesn't want to leave their fate up to the dice and just do the sensible thing and generate through point buy? With 4d6, drop lowest, you can have a chance for some pretty swingy stats, but you also have a chance to start with ability scores of 16 or higher BEFORE racial mods. Point buy nets you with a baseline of 8's and nothing can be lower, but the highest you can pay up to is... 15? Really? So I could start with a 17 after racial mods OR probably start with much higher than that? Why are we STILL rolling randomly to generate ability scores when the entire reason it was there in the first place was to generate what class your character could qualify for way back in FIRST EDITION? WHY?

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012

Shocked I tell you

Agent Boogeyman posted:

Okay, so looking at the ability score generation, is it just me or are they basically throwing a huge "gently caress you!" to anyone who doesn't want to leave their fate up to the dice and just do the sensible thing and generate through point buy? With 4d6, drop lowest, you can have a chance for some pretty swingy stats, but you also have a chance to start with ability scores of 16 or higher BEFORE racial mods. Point buy nets you with a baseline of 8's and nothing can be lower, but the highest you can pay up to is... 15? Really? So I could start with a 17 after racial mods OR probably start with much higher than that? Why are we STILL rolling randomly to generate ability scores when the entire reason it was there in the first place was to generate what class your character could qualify for way back in FIRST EDITION? WHY?

They capped all ability scores at 20 anyway. The Numbers are just lower in this edition.

LFK
Jan 5, 2013

Agent Boogeyman posted:

Okay, so looking at the ability score generation, is it just me or are they basically throwing a huge "gently caress you!" to anyone who doesn't want to leave their fate up to the dice and just do the sensible thing and generate through point buy? With 4d6, drop lowest, you can have a chance for some pretty swingy stats, but you also have a chance to start with ability scores of 16 or higher BEFORE racial mods. Point buy nets you with a baseline of 8's and nothing can be lower, but the highest you can pay up to is... 15? Really? So I could start with a 17 after racial mods OR probably start with much higher than that? Why are we STILL rolling randomly to generate ability scores when the entire reason it was there in the first place was to generate what class your character could qualify for way back in FIRST EDITION? WHY?
Because randomization disguises imbalance.

Father Wendigo
Sep 28, 2005
This is, sadly, more important to me than bettering myself.

Agent Boogeyman posted:

Okay, so looking at the ability score generation, is it just me or are they basically throwing a huge "gently caress you!" to anyone who doesn't want to leave their fate up to the dice and just do the sensible thing and generate through point buy? With 4d6, drop lowest, you can have a chance for some pretty swingy stats, but you also have a chance to start with ability scores of 16 or higher BEFORE racial mods. Point buy nets you with a baseline of 8's and nothing can be lower, but the highest you can pay up to is... 15? Really? So I could start with a 17 after racial mods OR probably start with much higher than that? Why are we STILL rolling randomly to generate ability scores when the entire reason it was there in the first place was to generate what class your character could qualify for way back in FIRST EDITION? WHY?
You're also required to roll for your starting coin if you don't take the package your class offers. If it's any consolation, I'm sure some middle-aged jagoff somewhere is happy.

Laphroaig
Feb 6, 2004

Drinking Smoke
Dinosaur Gum

Yeah thats what I said. "the first time you would go to 0 HP, or the first time a spell would kill you outright, instead you are at 1 HP or the spell is negated."

It doesn't really last 8 hours, it lasts 8 hours or until expended. So its either a 4th level out of turn heal that recovers someone who would otherwise lose a turn (depending on initiative order), or a 4th level don't die when you fail a save-or-die. Honestly, I'd rather prepare Revivify, considering there is still nothing else to spend gold pieces on.

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012

Shocked I tell you
Fillable Sheets are here. http://www.wizards.com/dnd/Tool.aspx?x=dnd/4new/tool/charactersheet

Asymmetrikon
Oct 30, 2009

I believe you're a big dork!

Nihilarian posted:

Who is Zak S?

A man with opinions so foul and beliefs so moronic and offensive that the combination of him and Tarnowski being credited makes this game worse than all the lovely wizard-supremacy and bad game design ever could.

Jack the Lad
Jan 20, 2009

Feed the Pubs

Feats are optional by the way.

Stormgale
Feb 27, 2010

Rulebook Heavily posted:

Huh. Not only does the Basic wizard have 3.x era Psion mechanics with Overchannel, but it even gives the damage a damage type so the wizard can resist the side effects of using it again.

It says the damage pierces all resistance and immunity, so nope (first broken combo I was looking at)

As for actual content i'm kinda ok with this edition, concentration spells limit the benefits of more powerful magic (see all the charm spells and powerful buffs) fighters can output decent damage and wizards get hosed if a stiff breeze hits them (every attack is a minimum dc 10 con check against any channeled spell, or double damage whichever is greater)

Stormgale fucked around with this message at 23:31 on Jul 3, 2014

DalaranJ
Apr 15, 2008

Yosuke will now die for you.

dwarf74 posted:

Repost from that other thread:

This is awesome. For real, no irony.




Here's my houserule. I'm going to cut out these two paragraphs and put them into all my other game books.

homullus
Mar 27, 2009

Father Wendigo posted:

You're also required to roll for your starting coin if you don't take the package your class offers. If it's any consolation, I'm sure some middle-aged jagoff somewhere is happy.

D&D Next: I'm sure some middle-aged jagoff somewhere is happy

The paragraph on sex and gender is great and also totally in keeping with literature going back to ancient times. Heroes are all sorts of people, and made me feel ok with at least getting the starter box. We'll see.

Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea
I'm still stunned by them making casting a cleric heal basically your entire go.

That's pretty much worse on its own that anything they did to the fighter. Clerics - real ultimate power you'll never use because all your turns will be "OK - who's hurt? I cast an appropriate size of heal spell on them".

Gort fucked around with this message at 23:45 on Jul 3, 2014

theironjef
Aug 11, 2009

The archmage of unexpected stinks.

DalaranJ posted:

Here's my houserule. I'm going to cut out these two paragraphs and put them into all my other game books.

"My character in this game of Vampire is a bearded dwarf woman who is sick of being mistaken for a man"

Okay yeah I'm in.

treeboy
Nov 13, 2004

James T. Kirk was a great man, but that was another life.
Are those other fighter options from a playtest or leaked from the phb/starter kit

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012

Shocked I tell you

treeboy posted:

Are those other fighter options from a playtest or leaked from the phb/starter kit

They said that all other sub classes like the Maneuver Fighter (Called Battle Master) and Eldrich Knight are in the PHB.

Only thing I know that was leaked was that the Wild Sorcerer is one of the sub classes for sorcerer and we saw the Wild Surge table. (It can summon Flumphs.)

Stormgale
Feb 27, 2010

Gort posted:

I'm still stunned by them making casting a cleric heal basically your entire go.

That's pretty much worse on its own that anything they did to the fighter. Clerics - real ultimate power you'll never use because all your turns will be "OK - who's hurt? I cast an appropriate size of heal spell on them".

There are extra actions heals (at 60% effectiveness If I remember correctly).

In the fighters current state doing constant bull rushes (Sorry Shoves) as 1 attack seems to be a good way to spend time, advantage on attacks and locks the enemy down

Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea

Stormgale posted:

There are extra actions heals (at 60% effectiveness If I remember correctly).

Where are those?

Edit: Oh yeah, Healing Word for example.

Trouble is, the best one of those is a level 3 spell, and it'll do like six HP healing. Later you've got spells like Heal which heal for 70 but do take your entire go. The cleric's going to end up a healbot.

Gort fucked around with this message at 00:05 on Jul 4, 2014

A Catastrophe
Jun 26, 2014

Laphroaig posted:

An rear end in a top hat and a derail.
If people can talk about the nice box about gender, they can also talk about the nasty bigots getting thanked at the end of the book.

DalaranJ
Apr 15, 2008

Yosuke will now die for you.
Of course, I was intending to do a write up on the overland exploration rules section as I did for their major updates in the playtest. Unfortunately, there's really not that much to say about them to say about them.

I think they improved the format a bit I guess, although I could understand the opposite opinion just as well as each of the less often used travel activities sections has been cut down significantly.

The major issue with the exploration rules is that they chose to cut out the numbers that actually allow you to DM exploration completely. At first, I assumed this was a ploy to sell the starter set, although it would be pretty odd to set different base values for each part of exploration in every adventure. On closer inspection however, it clearly states that multiple parts of the exploration rules will be in the DMG.


I know I should have been prepared for disappointment, but it just doesn't help.

Stormgale
Feb 27, 2010

Gort posted:

Where are those?

Edit: Oh yeah, Healing Word for example.

Yeah it's basically cut rate versions of Cure light and mass cure, rolling 1 dice size or one dice lower

Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea

Stormgale posted:

Yeah it's basically cut rate versions of Cure light and mass cure, rolling 1 dice size or one dice lower

Trouble is, those spells do like 6 HP healing, which is fine at low level. Then later on you've got Heal which is 70 HP healing, and there's no "bonus action" equivalent version you could use to heal without an action, so the problem's just delayed until later on.

It's like they recognised a problem but didn't realise there were more than five levels in the game.

Father Wendigo
Sep 28, 2005
This is, sadly, more important to me than bettering myself.

Gort posted:

Trouble is, those spells do like 6 HP healing, which is fine at low level. Then later on you've got Heal which is 70 HP healing, and there's no "bonus action" equivalent version you could use to heal without an action, so the problem's just delayed until later on.

It's like they recognised a problem but didn't realise there were more than five levels in the game.

To be fair, that's still one of the lesser potential problems games past level 6-7 are going to have.

Jimbozig
Sep 30, 2003

I like sharing and ice cream and animals.

dwarf74 posted:

October playtest, Indomitable was advantage on all saves at 13th level.

How often will you be making saves per adventuring day? How many will you expect to fail? If you're rolling 5 a day and failing 40% then on average being able to re-roll 2 is nearly as good as having advantage on all. Do those numbers exist explicitly anywhere? I would guess not - they seem loath to even have any expectations of how people might play let alone codify them.


Also wait, the dragon's STR and INT saves are missing because those are the two stats it's NOT proficient in? If I could pick two things D&D dragons are known for it's STR and INT. How does this make any sense??

treeboy
Nov 13, 2004

James T. Kirk was a great man, but that was another life.

Gort posted:

It's like they recognised a problem but didn't realise there were more than five levels in the game.

Can you cast at a higher level for additional healing like Cure Wounds?

Jimbozig posted:

Also wait, the dragon's STR and INT saves are missing because those are the two stats it's NOT proficient in? If I could pick two things D&D dragons are known for it's STR and INT. How does this make any sense??

Its a green dragon, aren't some of the colors supposedly dumber than the others?

Jimbozig
Sep 30, 2003

I like sharing and ice cream and animals.

treeboy posted:

Its a green dragon, aren't some of the colors supposedly dumber than the others?
Perhaps. Maybe I just failed my Dragonlore skill check. Should've dumped STR after all!

petrol blue
Feb 9, 2013

sugar and spice
and
ethanol slammers

dwarf74 posted:

This is awesome. For real, no irony.




Honestly, it'd be better if their example of 'play anything' weren't the 'ladyboy elf' and 'bearded lady' sideshow attractions. Still the best thing in the book, though.

e:

theironjef posted:

"My character in this game of Vampire is a bearded dwarf woman who is sick of being mistaken for a man"
:golfclap:

Stormgale
Feb 27, 2010

Gort posted:

Trouble is, those spells do like 6 HP healing, which is fine at low level. Then later on you've got Heal which is 70 HP healing, and there's no "bonus action" equivalent version you could use to heal without an action, so the problem's just delayed until later on.

It's like they recognised a problem but didn't realise there were more than five levels in the game.

I'd like to look at monster damage output at that level, I want to see how likely the fighter can survive till post combat for heals (I personally think all the cure spells should be off action but maybe it's salvegable)

Deptfordx
Dec 23, 2013

Is it me, or does the first level spell damage seem awfully high. Burning hands doing 3d6 in a 15' burst, Guiding bolt doing 4d6 damage + Advantage, 3 old school magic missiles for the price of one. And NPC's will flatten low-level PC's with these as well.

The shield spell seems weird as well, cast it as a reaction to gain +5Ac (effective against the triggering attack).

"So you hit me, was it by less than 5? Guess i'll cast Shield then." Seems kinda gross in an immersion breaking way. Deflection would have been a better name as well.

LFK
Jan 5, 2013

treeboy posted:

Can you cast at a higher level for additional healing like Cure Wounds?
+1d4/spell level.

treeboy
Nov 13, 2004

James T. Kirk was a great man, but that was another life.

LFK posted:

+1d4/spell level.

If it's ranged that sounds a lot like 3.5 Close Wounds

Deptfordx
Dec 23, 2013

Also in all the previews, do we have a definitive list of all the Character classes that are coming in the new Players Handbook.

I hope the Sorceror made it, I really like the idea of the Sorceror as getting powers based on his heritage like they had in an early playtest i saw.

sansuki
May 17, 2003

dwarf74 posted:

Repost from that other thread:

This is awesome. For real, no irony.




Why is this a thing? I don't mind it, I think its neat, but why did they have to take the time and make this a thing in the book?

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Jimbozig
Sep 30, 2003

I like sharing and ice cream and animals.

sansuki posted:

Why is this a thing? I don't mind it, I think its neat, but why did they have to take the time and make this a thing in the book?

Because being explicitly inclusive is better than just assuming that everyone knows to be inclusive.

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