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Asymmetrikon posted:Quoted from the chat thread: I'm trying to figure out an eloquent way to phrase the way I feel without dismissing other people's experiences and failing. The problem is, of course, that I feel like my own experience might be being discounted, so simply responding negatively is a bad idea too. I'm sorry I can't find a good way to express this. I do really like the way neongrey's edit includes a broader spectrum of queer people. e: Like I guess what I'd say is I don't like feeling that other people are speaking for me. I don't want to say they're wrong, because then that's just me doing the same thing the other way around, but it's irritating to see something condemned in a blanket fashion as if there's a single "correct" way to handle it. Maybe that's not how other people intend it, and I certainly don't want to say that what they're feeling is invalid. If that makes any sense. zachol fucked around with this message at 02:47 on Jul 4, 2014 |
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Jul 4, 2014 02:30
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PleasingFungus posted:I can't tell if this post is a joke. Only if you believe getting less character weapon choices is somehow hilarious. In a game where weaponry is a significantly defining characteristic despite (in spite of?) everything being overshadowed by magic users. Is Search going under Wisdom and Investigation being a completely new skill something I missed from a later playtests?
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Jul 4, 2014 02:44
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Does D&D still have those hilarious cursed magic items that change your sex/race if you put them on? You could do some interesting things with a fantasy setting where that sort of thing is common - sort of a post-human fantasy. The city peasants get shoved through a Belt of Halflingness so the landlords can pack more of them into the slums, and so on.
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Jul 4, 2014 02:49
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Sort of, though there's been discussion about the implications, and the magic involved creates weird ontological issues.
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Jul 4, 2014 02:55
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Like the reason I haven't played a trans character is it would be super depressing, since generally that seems like a problem that would be much easier to solve given the sorts of magic available in the default D&D setting. Maybe it's different for other people but a big part of this hobby for me is escapism.
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Jul 4, 2014 02:58
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gently caress it, everyone's talking about Basic, I'mma start scraping the Starter set for info and junk. 8 pages of monsters and a 2 page explanation of monsters. Bugbear, Commoner, Cultist, Doppelganger, Evil Mage, Flameskull, Ghoul, Giant Spider, Goblin, Grick, Hobgoblin, Plot character undead, plot character elf, Nothic, Ochre Jelly, Ogre, Orc, Owlbear, Ruffian, Plot character, Skeleton, Spectator, Stirge, Twig Blight, Wolf, Young Green Dragon, Zombie. Monster art for the weirder poo poo is put inline with the adventure on the page where the beastie shows up. For the most part. Twig Blights just get a written description. Every monster shows up during the adventure except the Ochre Jelly. All monster stats are at the back: kiss your tight 4e adventure layout goodbye. Monsters are bolded the first time they show up in an encounter like so: "Four goblins are hiding in the woods, two on each side of the road." So if you see goblins[/i] on a page three times it's talking about three different sets of [b]goblins. I would be amazed if anyone could wing it out of this book. There's a lot of little poo poo like DCs for skill checks that's just hidden in the paragraphs. Traps are all written out in long form. The adventure feels much denser as a result. SPOILERS N SHEET! SORT OF! The first character level is covered over the course of an ambush and a small cave. All told: 17 goblins, 4 wolves, 1 boss goblin (15 HP), 1 bugbear. Biggest fight is (potentially) 3 goblins, 1 wolf, and 1 bugbear. The bugbear swings for 2d8+2 and has a surprise attack for 2d6 if he gets a surprise round. Goblins are CR 1/4, have 7 HP, and do 1d6+2 damage for both their scimitar and shortbow attacks. Part 2 is in town and the adventure mentions that the encounters are basically a montage that takes place over the course of several days. Lots of RP, lots of quests, lots of story hooks. The lull ends when the party gets jumped by a bunch of Jets for one of the following reasons: •Asking the wrong questions •Being in the wrong part of town •Sticking their noses where they don't belong •No goddamn reason at all. The adventure passively incentivizes executing all the gang members. The players then raid the gang lair where there's actually multiple rooms that aren't crammed full of monsters, and even a pack of skeletons that the party can get around with savvy play. They don't get experience for that, though. They do get experience for freeing slaves, though. There's a Nothic that tries to bargain with the party instead of fighting. They get XP for either outcome, but if you barter you're probably not going to get away with stealing his poo poo, which includes a +1 sword with a description and history. Looking at the appendix there's at least 8 permanent magic items in the adventure. There's a few other medium encounters strewn around the cellar, and it caps off with a sort-of encounter with a mage who has a solid chance of seeing the players coming and taking off before they even get there. The adventure assumes players will level up to 3 somewhere in the middle of Part 2. More?
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Jul 4, 2014 03:24
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Thanks for this, it's really interesting! What are the magic items like, there aren't any (that I've found  ) in basic?
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Jul 4, 2014 03:31
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I would like more. Also Is the surprise thing the only thing the bugbear has for powers?
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Jul 4, 2014 03:47
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petrol blue posted:Thanks for this, it's really interesting! What are the magic items like, there aren't any (that I've found Yeah, they won't be added to Basic until next month at the earliest, November at the latest. I'd suspect next month, since they're not in the PHB, but they are kinda core to how a lot of people play the game. You've got your basic boring +1 armour and weapons. Boots of Springing and Striding: your speed becomes 30, unless you're already faster, you can't be slowed by carrying too much or wearing heavy armour, and you can jump 3x normal distance making the Fighter and Rogue class features utterly meaningless. Sort of. They stack. Woo. Gauntlets of Ogre Power: your strength becomes 19, unless it's higher. gently caress you, Fighter! Ring of Protection: +1 Ac and saving throws. Spider Staff: can be used as a quarterstaff, does +1d6 poison damage on a hit when used as a weapon. Has 10 charges. You can use 1 charge to cast Spider Climb or 2 charges to cast Web. The staff gets 1d6+4 charges back every day. If you run the staff dry you roll a d20, on a 1 it disintegrates. Here's the loving rub: you can only use that spell ability if the spell is on your class list. Congrats, you just undermined the one thing theoretically balancing the Wizard. Staff of Defense: same as above, except +1 AC instead of the poison damage, and 1 charge for Mage Armour and 2 charges for Shield. Wand of Magic Missiles: 7 charges, can spend 1-3, casts Magic Missile as a level 1-3 spell. Regains 1d6+1 charges per day. Same crumble rules. "You can use this wand even if you're incapable of casting spells." Basic magic martial weapon: +1 damage and accuracy. Basic magic caster weapon: 5-10 free spell thoughts.
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Jul 4, 2014 03:51
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LFK posted:Gauntlets of Ogre Power: your strength becomes 19, unless it's higher. gently caress you, Fighter! That seems fine for a fighter. It just means they don't have to bother putting points in Strength anymore.
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Jul 4, 2014 03:53
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MonsterEnvy posted:That seems fine for a fighter. It just means they don't have to bother putting points in Strength anymore. A medium/high level fighter (that cared about Str) would almost certainly have it at 20 considering how easy it is to boost stats.
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Jul 4, 2014 03:59
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MonsterEnvy posted:I would like more. Also Is the surprise thing the only thing the bugbear has for powers? Technically his 2d8 is a special power: bugbears get double damage dice. Otherwise, no. And the CR/XP system says he's more or less equal to a wizard mob that can Hold Person 3x/day. He has 5 more hit points. Seriously, gently caress caster mobs.
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Jul 4, 2014 04:04
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LFK posted:The first character level is covered over the course of an ambush and a small cave. You know what adventure everyone loved? Keep on the Shadowfell. Let's do a thematic callback to that. LFK posted:More? Yes, please. Does the starter set include rules about random encounter frequency? Does it include a chart or method for determining NPC reactions?
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Jul 4, 2014 04:12
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LFK posted:Technically his 2d8 is a special power: bugbears get double damage dice. Otherwise, no. A Bugbear is CR 1 meaning it's threat to a party of 4 level 1's. (Level 1 Wizards can't cast hold person as it's a level 2 spelll) Also caster mobs in this game would get ripped apart as they don't have the stamina to take hits.
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Jul 4, 2014 04:31
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DalaranJ posted:You know what adventure everyone loved? Keep on the Shadowfell. Let's do a thematic callback to that.  This one's actually a good deal more complex. The KootS cave was, what, two rooms, and the big risk was chaining the encounters. This is actually a bit more like a multi-stage climb through a large, if brutish, trap. There's a couple different paths through the thing, and you even have a chance to chump-shot the "boss". quote:Yes, please. NPC reactions are mostly written out like "so and so likes cakes, if the players bake them a cake they'll perform sexual favours in return. They hate spiders. If there's a spider in the cake they still perform the favours, but they use teeth. They can be persuaded to try anal on a DC 15 Charisma (Persuade) check." Sorry, I have no idea where that example came from. But yes, all in all there's a decent volume of words dedicated to roleplaying specific and generic NPCs.
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Jul 4, 2014 04:33
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MonsterEnvy posted:A Bugbear is CR 1 meaning it's threat to a party of 4 level 1's. (Level 1 Wizards can't cast hold person as it's a level 2 spelll) Also caster mobs in this game would get ripped apart as they don't have the stamina to take hits. AC 12 HP 22 Spd 30 Saving throws: -1, +2, +0, +5, +3, +0 Challenge: 1 (200 xp) 4th level spellcaster, spell save DC 13, +5 to hit, knows cantrips: light, mage hand, shocking grasp 1st level (4 slots): charm person, magic missile 2nd level (3 slots): hold person, misty step Bugbear AC 16 HP 27 Spd 30 Saving throws: +2, +2, +1, -1, +0, -1 Challenge: 1 (200 xp) Brute: melee attacks do one extra die of damage (included below) surprise attack: if it surprises and hits it deals 2d6 extra damage Morningstar: +4, one target, 2d8+2 Javeline: +4, 1d6+2 or 2d6+2 in melee
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Jul 4, 2014 04:41
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LFK posted:Evil Mage Oh now I get what you mean. Well the Evil Mage can only hit one person at a time with Hold Person anyway. Bugbears meanwhile hit really hard. They are just different roles. The Ideal would be for The Mage to hold someone while the Bugbear hits them.
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Jul 4, 2014 04:44
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LFK posted:I liked that cave Well the cave might have been one of the most tolerable parts of KoTS actually. Could you tell me what the frequency of random encounter rolls and the chance of an encounter when you roll, (um, in part 4 which I assume is some sort of dungeon location)? As for the reactions I was actually asking if there was a generic table. Like can you potentially negotiate with monstrous humanoids?
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Jul 4, 2014 04:54
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Is this pretty much Wizard Supremacy? Knock/Wizard Lock, ability to do more damage, ability to do everything a fighter or thief can do? Or is the game more balanced than 1st and 2nd Ed? It's clearly not as flat as 4th Ed was (though I barley played it).
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Jul 4, 2014 05:45
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Comstar posted:Is this pretty much Wizard Supremacy? Knock/Wizard Lock, ability to do more damage, ability to do everything a fighter or thief can do? More Balanced. Unless they burn their limited high level spells on damage spells they won't do as much damage as a Fighter. So they are better for buffs debuffs and clearing out rooms of large amounts of weak enemies. (Though most buffs and debuffs can't be used while another is being used.) They are super squishy and need the other classes to protect them in this edition. Rogues are much better with skills, locks and traps then them. Casting Knock for example would be a last resort as it wastes a precious spell slot and it makes a loud knocking noise that will alert everything within 300 ft of the party. MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 06:00 on Jul 4, 2014 |
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Jul 4, 2014 05:55
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Who cares about the gender paragraph? It's there, it's tiny, it's fine.
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Jul 4, 2014 05:58
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Part THREEEEEEEEEEEE! Page of stuff continuing the plot threads, summarizing wilderness travel, and a random encounter chart that's in play as the party moves between a variety of locations out in the countryside. Roll d20, on a 17-20 there's an encounter of (roll on chart): 1d8+2 Stirges 1d4+1 Ghouls 1 Ogre 1d6+3 Goblins 1d4+2 Hobgoblins 1d4+2 Orcs 1d4+2 Wolves 1 Owlbear The first locale is a pure RP/persuasion/investigation type stuff. The second is one of those rear end in a top hat Evil Mages and his 12 zombies. You can cut a deal with the dickhead, though, and kill orcs for him in exchange for information. Party gets 200 xp for parley, or 800 xp, cash, and a ring of protection for murdering him. Next: Ruined town full of zombies, stick bugs, and giant spiders. And a druid/ranger dude living Bear Grylls style. This is where the dragon on the cover lives. He's probably gonna kill your level 3 party, but if you drive him off you get 2000 xp, and somehow manage to kill him you get 3900. Also he's got a neat magic item in his horde. It's a +1 axe that deal max damage to Plant creatures and things made of wood, and there's a short little three-line story that goes along with it. Cute. There's also a small enclave of dragon cultists hiding in a barn outside town who aren't terribly interested in picking a fight. If you decide to kill them anyway they've got some diamonds. This is where the adventure softly ties into Tyranny of Dragons. Foruuuuuth: orc camp. Kill, loot, move on. Fifth: Ruined castle set piece. Lots of goblins, some hobgoblins, a grick, a captured owlbear (even XP for murder or release), and a big showdown with a super bugbear, a wolf, and a doppelganger. There's a sidebar at the start of the block discussing what to do if the players try to trick their way in with disguises and lies. "It's okay if the characters circumvent combat and talk their way past the defenders." There's a couple different ways in and out of the location, and several different side-distractions. Four of these locations can lead to the party finding the information that they need to move on with the plot, and all of them have side-quest goals. Either way the party now knows about the Cave of Ultimate Cave-Based Evil and have time to go back to Phandelfelderdelver and rest up/turn in quests before heading on. Paaaaaart Foooooooooor Big cave, Drow, Underdark, Spiders, Undead. Players should be level 4 by this point, but if they skipped a lot of stuff or were stupid enough to leave people alive then they might still be level 3 and could die okay good luck. No note about withdrawing and coming back, but there's only a light time limit on any of this, really, so a party that's getting their asses kicked should be able to go back to town and heal. And I was wrong, the Ochre Jelly is on this location's wandering monster table, and one shows up in an encounter. "Monsters roam through all areas of the mine. Random encounters remind players that monsters aren't neccessarily confined to specific areas, and that no part of the dungeon is safe. Encounters with wandering monsters are an effective ay to keep the players and characters on their toes, alleviate player boredom, and tax party resources. However, having too many random encounters can become tedious, so use them sparingly." 20 encounters in the cave ranging from a solitary pit trap to some poison mushrooms to stirges and ghouls and jellies oh my. Some decent stuff in here. There's basically four different things going on: the main villain the PCs are trying to stop from getting to MacGuffintown, the undead guards of MacGuffintown, the local wildlife, and the PCs, all kinda pushing against each other. There's a good potentially social encounter with a dead wizard (best kind), a puzzle/fight with a Spectator, some neat magic items (a +1 mace that's also a lantern and does bonus damage to undead), lots of different paths through the area, and a trapped shrine that punishes greedy players by dropping rocks on their heads. The "boss" isn't anything spectacular, but it's a decently complex dungeon that took me a while to decipher. Like, not that it's hard, half the encounters are "there are ghouls in this room, they attack you" but there's a lot of different parts. The big bad, actually, is kind of a pushover, but there's good incentives for bringing him back alive, additional incentives to clear the entire mine, and not everything is    
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Jul 4, 2014 06:04
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LFK posted:"Monsters roam through all areas of the mine. Random encounters remind players that monsters aren't neccessarily confined to specific areas, and that no part of the dungeon is safe. Encounters with wandering monsters are an effective ay to keep the players and characters on their toes, alleviate player boredom, and tax party resources. However, having too many random encounters can become tedious, so use them sparingly." So, if I am understanding correctly the random encounter rate is 'whenever you feel like it'?
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Jul 4, 2014 06:15
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DalaranJ posted:Well the cave might have been one of the most tolerable parts of KoTS actually. Chance is 20% (17-20 on a d20) There's no generic reaction table in the adventure (there is in the DMG come November, but... yeah) but there's nothing prohibiting you from negotiating, and probably a dozen times the adventure has notes specifically for talking instead of fighting. I can't tell you if it's a well constructed adventure, challenge wise, the system is still too oblique to me and the writing of the adventure doesn't really help with that at all (you have to dig to find, or compile yourself, the XP budgets for encounters, and there's no guideline for what constitutes a hard encounter) but structurally it's pretty decent. There's a lot of different ways to achieve goals, lots of side stuff to poke around in, lots of world and adventure hooks, a giant looming "this dragon will eat you all" carrot-on-a-stick to get the party hyped for leveling up so they can come back and kick it's rear end, ways for enemies to slip away entirely, and some fun loot.
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Jul 4, 2014 06:20
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MonsterEnvy posted:More Balanced. Unless they burn their limited high level spells on damage spells they won't do as much damage as a Fighter. So they are better for buffs debuffs and clearing out rooms of large amounts of weak enemies. (Though most buffs and debuffs can't be used while another is being used.) They are super squishy and need the other classes to protect them in this edition. Rogues are much better with skills, locks and traps then them. Casting Knock for example would be a last resort as it wastes a precious spell slot and it makes a loud knocking noise that will alert everything within 300 ft of the party. Also, I'd note that there doesn't seem to be any assumption that wizards can easily make magic items in this edition, so you can't just crank out a scroll/wand of some problem-solving spell and stash it in your pack so you don't have to worry about using a spell slot. This is probably something that we won't have the full dope on until the DMG, though.
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Jul 4, 2014 07:16
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The fighter's ability to grant disadvantage to an enemy attack against an ally still requires a shield. I just do not understand this, what kind of sense does that make? Especially if you prefer a two-handed weapon.
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Jul 4, 2014 09:07
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MonsterEnvy posted:More Balanced. Unless they burn their limited high level spells on damage spells they won't do as much damage as a Fighter. (Edit) Withdrawn, i'm caught up on the math in the other thread, now. A Catastrophe fucked around with this message at 09:38 on Jul 4, 2014 |
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Jul 4, 2014 09:13
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MonsterEnvy posted:More Balanced. Unless they burn their limited high level spells on damage spells they won't do as much damage as a Fighter. So they are better for buffs debuffs and clearing out rooms of large amounts of weak enemies. (Though most buffs and debuffs can't be used while another is being used.) They are super squishy and need the other classes to protect them in this edition. Rogues are much better with skills, locks and traps then them. Casting Knock for example would be a last resort as it wastes a precious spell slot and it makes a loud knocking noise that will alert everything within 300 ft of the party. More balanced then 4E? I disagree entirely, and I consider 4E to be extremely unbalanced. The fact that spells like Otto's Irresistible Dance and Death Ward(and the SoDs requiring it)exist again alone puts implications on 5Es balance that are pretty much impossible to even figure out. It's also going to have the dumb poo poo again where wizards are weaker at lower levels, when fighters are stronger, then at higher levels wizards become overpowered and fighter types become useless. That wasn't good balance 30 years ago, it still isn't. Monster math/balance is...nonexistant, we're back to a silly CR system that puts a level 4 wizard that can spam Hold Person at the same CR as a Bugbear again, to use an earlier example. Edit: That being said I'll probably give the game a shot at some point, I've tried two of the earlier play tests and wasn't super fond of them either though, so maybe this version of DnD just really isn't for me. I like what I've seen of the art so far though, so there's that! goldjas fucked around with this message at 09:39 on Jul 4, 2014 |
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Jul 4, 2014 09:26
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While I'm not a fan of wizard supremacy, one big balancing factor that I see almost everyone ignore is to actually put in the material costs and hold the players to them. A perfect example is the Holy Aura someone was complaining about earlier. Yea, the spell is pretty crazy good, it also is level 8 and requires "a tiny reliquary worth at least 1000gp containing a sacred relic". How many tiny reliquaries is the guy hauling around, and how is he getting all the sacred relics? Or the knock spell, take a minute to reread the text and think about a 300ft loud knocking sound. Maybe a thief is still useful if you need to be quiet or don't want to fight several groups of monsters at once. Otto's is still bullshit, I agree with that.
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Jul 4, 2014 10:10
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ZypherIM posted:While I'm not a fan of wizard supremacy, one big balancing factor that I see almost everyone ignore is to actually put in the material costs and hold the players to them. A perfect example is the Holy Aura someone was complaining about earlier. Yea, the spell is pretty crazy good, it also is level 8 and requires "a tiny reliquary worth at least 1000gp containing a sacred relic". How many tiny reliquaries is the guy hauling around, and how is he getting all the sacred relics? Heres a fun little side note for you. How much stuff does a party have when they reach the point where they can cast a level 8 spell. A fucktonne if the starter kit is anything to go buy. 1000gp doesn't look like much to just let you trivialize a fight. Yeah a 300ft loud knocking sound could be difficult. On the other hand you can just make yourself invisible too right after so it now instead of a downside you can also use the spell as a giant decoy giving it even more potential.
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Jul 4, 2014 10:13
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Also you can cast silence. Also how often is there really going to be somebody to hear that knock.
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Jul 4, 2014 11:00
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A knocking sound you can hear 300 feet away isn't really a knock, it's more a pounding with a sledgehammer.
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Jul 4, 2014 11:02
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The cleric is the one who knocks.
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Jul 4, 2014 11:05
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A Catastrophe posted:Also you can cast silence. The real question is more, how many people hear that knock and then realise that a wizard made it and pretend they didn't hear it.
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Jul 4, 2014 11:59
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I can imagine the conversation now: "There was a brief pause and a muffled argument before the knocking sound, so there's probably a Wizard, AND a Rogue who really wants to stab something." I'm kidding of course, nobody cares that the rogue is there. Nobody cares.
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Jul 4, 2014 13:32
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I wonder what they 10-year plan is. Are they even planning to release another version after this? Dropping the edition version from the name and saying that the whole point is to try and get all players on board makes it seem as if they want to create the edition to end all editions. In that case, what are they going to do, business wise, to keep making money out of it? Just licensing?
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Jul 4, 2014 13:37
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A Catastrophe posted:I can imagine the conversation now: They identified there was a rogue because the argument lasted 4 times longer than normal.
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Jul 4, 2014 13:47
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Rexides posted:I wonder what they 10-year plan is. Are they even planning to release another version after this? Dropping the edition version from the name and saying that the whole point is to try and get all players on board makes it seem as if they want to create the edition to end all editions. In that case, what are they going to do, business wise, to keep making money out of it? Just licensing? They do this every time an edition comes out. The first version always has little mention of other editions, the second wears it proudly: 2e black books, 3.5, Essentials. It's a hope that yes this will be evergreen, but it never quite works that way.
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Jul 4, 2014 13:49
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LFK posted:Frequency is DM's discretion. Basically "if the characters are loitering, or the players are wasting time." Next's claimed desire to cater to all playstyles sure seems to result in the unwillingness to support any particular style with actual rules. There are multiple types of play which I am enjoy GMing, but I just can't reach any of them from where Next sits. That's very frustrating to me.
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Jul 4, 2014 14:57
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| # ? Apr 26, 2024 23:25 |
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A free third party 5e Adventure Path is already out, apparently: http://froggodgames.com/5th-edition
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Jul 4, 2014 15:09
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