D&D NEXT: Infinite Posts of the Abyss

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Jack the Lad: Jan 20, 2009; Feed the Pubs

Quadratic_Wizard posted:

So, 5e's SoDs are about at the level of 4e's stuff, with everything either Save Ends or based on a damage threshold

Nope, there are a bunch of straight up Save or Dies: Beholder petrification, Death Knight soul steal etc.

Jack the Lad fucked around with this message at 12:18 on Jul 3, 2014

# ¿ Jul 3, 2014 12:09

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# ¿ Apr 28, 2024 23:54

Jack the Lad: Jan 20, 2009; Feed the Pubs

LFK posted:

I'm fine with it. Beowulf ripped Grendel's arm off. Samson killed hundreds with the jawbone of a mule. Why can't a fighter deke out, or even push back, a dragon?

Interestingly, Beowulf was cited in the Fighter Design Goals article back in 2012:

quote:

3. The Fighter Exists in a World of Myth, Fantasy, and Legend

Keeping in mind the point above, we also have to remember that while the fighter draws on mundane talent, we�re talking about mundane within the context of a mythical, fantasy setting. Beowulf slew Grendel by tearing his arm off. He later killed a dragon almost singlehandedly. Roland slew or gravely injured four hundred Saracens in a single battle. In the world of D&D, a skilled fighter is a one-person army. You can expect fighters to do fairly mundane things with weapons, but with such overwhelming skill that none can hope to stand against them.

# ¿ Jul 3, 2014 12:32

Jack the Lad: Jan 20, 2009; Feed the Pubs

moths posted:

out? Mearls tweeted yesterday that the file was finished sometime in the afternoon.

I think he later said 'working hours, can't be more precise than that'

# ¿ Jul 3, 2014 12:40

Jack the Lad: Jan 20, 2009; Feed the Pubs

ritorix posted:

Noon EST is when they are releasing it, servers willing.

Where's that from?

# ¿ Jul 3, 2014 14:10

Jack the Lad: Jan 20, 2009; Feed the Pubs

Chaltab posted:

Is this missing content? I don't see the list of Feats or any martial maneuvers.

The Fighter archetype that uses maneuvers didn't make it in, apparently:

# ¿ Jul 3, 2014 18:46

Jack the Lad: Jan 20, 2009; Feed the Pubs

RPZip posted:

They caved to that insane damage on a miss guy.

Payndz posted:

Yeah, that was a drat shame, if only to witness his total meltdown if it had stayed in.

Don't worry, Wizards have you covered. And it's stronger than the Fighter's was.

# ¿ Jul 3, 2014 20:48

Jack the Lad: Jan 20, 2009; Feed the Pubs

MonsterEnvy posted:

Well most Cantrips don't offer a saving throw so it does not matter.

Actually none of them do, because they changed them from requiring a saving throw in the playtest to requiring a Ranged Spell Attack in this release.

It's obviously an oversight that they didn't update Potent Cantrips to be compatible.

# ¿ Jul 3, 2014 20:58

Jack the Lad: Jan 20, 2009; Feed the Pubs

Feats are optional by the way.

# ¿ Jul 3, 2014 23:18

Jack the Lad: Jan 20, 2009; Feed the Pubs

A free third party 5e Adventure Path is already out, apparently:

http://froggodgames.com/5th-edition

# ¿ Jul 4, 2014 15:09

Jack the Lad: Jan 20, 2009; Feed the Pubs

The maneuvers are pretty bad, though. Most importantly, they are the same from 1 to 20:

Grant an ally one weapon attack, add +superiority die to the damage
Target makes Strength save or drops an object of your choice, add +superiority die damage
Grant the next attack against the target by someone else advantage, add +superiority die damage
Gain advantage on your next attack against the target, add +superiority die damage to it if it hits
Target makes Wisdom save or has disadvantage against targets other than you until eont
Increase reach for one attack by 5 feet, add +superiority die damage
One of your allies can move half speed as a reaction, does not provoke, add +superiority die damage
Target makes Wisdom save or is frightened of you until eont, add +superiority die damage
Use your reaction to reduce damage of an attack that hits you by superiority die+dex mod
Add +superiority die to your attack roll, can do so after rolling
Target (Larger or smaller only) makes Strength save or is pushed 15 feet, add +superiority die damage
Grant an ally superiority die+cha mod temp hit points
When missed, use a reaction to make a weapon attack against the attacker, add +superiority die damage if it hits
When you move, add +superiority die to your AC until you stop moving
When you hit a target, choose another target and deal +superiority die damage to it if the attack would have hit it
Target (Large or smaller only) makes Strength save or is proned.

Jack the Lad fucked around with this message at 22:42 on Jul 4, 2014

# ¿ Jul 4, 2014 22:29

Jack the Lad: Jan 20, 2009; Feed the Pubs

MonsterEnvy posted:

Wait how did you get these?

Also I think it looks pretty cool myself.

Closed February playtest.

They're okay, but not good enough to be the only things you get for 20 levels.

e: Like, if those were the options you picked from while going from levels 1 to 5, and you could do them at-will instead of twice per encounter, and the ones with a save didn't have a save (so that they didn't have to both hit and then have the enemy fail it), and the choices you got between levels 5 and 20 scaled up in terms of scope and power, they would be actively good.

Jack the Lad fucked around with this message at 23:09 on Jul 4, 2014

# ¿ Jul 4, 2014 23:02

Jack the Lad: Jan 20, 2009; Feed the Pubs

Lothire posted:

But I do like that you get all of 'em at level 1 instead of having to wait at some arbitrary level to push a man. Maybe more elaborate actions can come into play in higher levels.

You get 3 of them at level 1, just to be clear. And you will basically never pick push a man.

# ¿ Jul 4, 2014 23:40

Jack the Lad: Jan 20, 2009; Feed the Pubs

Generic Octopus posted:

Fighters only get their archetypes at level 3 though? Says in the pages you posted they start at 3 anyway.

Right, my bad. 3 at level 3, going up to 9 at level 17. But all from the same pool.

# ¿ Jul 5, 2014 01:29

Jack the Lad: Jan 20, 2009; Feed the Pubs

Jack the Lad posted:

A free third party 5e Adventure Path is already out, apparently:

http://froggodgames.com/5th-edition

Update: It's pretty great.

# ¿ Jul 5, 2014 03:06

Jack the Lad: Jan 20, 2009; Feed the Pubs

LFK posted:

your 15th level Maneuvers are, by definition and all practicality, the ones you wanted least. You had the entire pool in front of you, so of course you grabbed the best/coolest/most "you" maneuvers at level 3, then your runners-up at level 7, then the "yeah, I could use that" at 10, and by level 15 you're down to "sure, why not." There's never anything that you're thirsty for. There's no "oh, sweet loving Jesus, at level 15 I can get Own the Battlefield, 4 dice, all my allies get to make an attack as a reaction and add 4d10 damage! "

Ferrinus posted:

This is a great way to put it.

It really is a great way to put it, and it's going to continue to be the case until they release stronger maneuvers and gate them by level.

# ¿ Jul 5, 2014 09:19

Jack the Lad: Jan 20, 2009; Feed the Pubs

quote:

@mikemearls : Regarding Potent Cantrip - we'll add cantrips that can benefit from it to Basic D&D
@redcometcasval : it seems like it should do half damage on a missed attack as well.
@mikemearls : yeah, that's what it was, but that would limit abilities that modded cantrips
@mikemearls : damage on a miss tripped lots of groups. For instance, if my Cantrip also pushes does that apply with dmg on miss?
@redcometcasval : how is that any different than the current way with saves? It would just do damage, no additional effect.
@mikemearls : saves consistently work that way - pattern is throughout the game

It seems likely to me that it was an oversight. I don't see any other reason for them to have included Potent Cantrip in Basic without including cantrips that benefit from it. If they are adding cantrips that will benefit from it later, why not add Potent Cantrip later as well?

# ¿ Jul 6, 2014 09:56

Jack the Lad: Jan 20, 2009; Feed the Pubs

Covok posted:

This is easily the thing I hate the most about most rpgs in general. With some effort, one could make an easy to read stat block for nearly everything in the game. It could allow someone to just glance and obtain all relevant information with little involvement. Instead, we get a form of writing which was designed with the expectation of high reader involvement..

The neat, concise presentation of 4e rules - especially powers - was often held against it by people who felt that everything being presented the same way meant that everything was the same.

# ¿ Jul 8, 2014 00:24

Jack the Lad: Jan 20, 2009; Feed the Pubs

DalaranJ posted:

Jack the Lad made one in the Imp Zone thread for the last public playtest. Unfortunately, it's useless because it suggests that either a) there was no basic design like you're suggesting, or b) the monsters are categorized into roles even though the design team never explained what roles exist or even that there are roles. There isn't CR in the playtest, so it also suggests that level isn't tightly bound to CR.

My impression (since my starter set has not yet arrived) is that there won't be enough monsters in it to do a meaningful analysis.

This is true - let me crosspost some of my stats and charts.

Here are the Starter Set monster stats:

Monster HP increased by an average of 119% for the levels we have information on between the playtest and the Starter Set:

Mearls has confirmed that this is intended and roughly correct:

Fighter DPR vs extrapolated Monster HP by CR:

Fighter DPR as a percentage of Monster HP, showing the playtest bestiary math for comparison:

The number of rounds it takes a Fighter to kill a monster of a given CR, with and without Action Surge:

A level 20 Fighter does just over 5 times more damage than a level 1 Fighter to equal CR enemies
A level 20 Monster has just under 29 times more HP than a level 1 Monster.

Jack the Lad fucked around with this message at 00:08 on Jul 14, 2014

# ¿ Jul 13, 2014 23:55

Jack the Lad: Jan 20, 2009; Feed the Pubs

Gort posted:

Your numbers are based on the idea that magic items are optional, right? That idea's clearly rubbish due to the enemies with vast damage reduction against non-magic weapons.

Right. Tofu enemies (no DR/regen/etc) and no magic items.

I'm happy to run the math with items if you or anyone else wants to give me some numbers (i.e. at what level you get what).

Jack the Lad fucked around with this message at 13:47 on Jul 14, 2014

# ¿ Jul 14, 2014 13:42

Jack the Lad: Jan 20, 2009; Feed the Pubs

Mearls wrote a whole thing on encounter design and managed to say, in essence "I dunno, make it up. Or don't, that's good too."

quote:

Challenge Rating: A monster's challenge rating is a guide to its overall power. As a general rule, monsters with a CR higher than a party's level pose a significant threat. They might have abilities that easily outclass the characters, or so many hit points that they can wear the characters down even in a straightforward battle.

Unless you're looking to create an intentionally difficult�or even deadly�encounter, it's best to focus on creatures with a challenge rating less than or equal to the average level of the characters in the party.

Also, I think anyone saying that a system shouldn't be expected to provide a DM with the tools to design an encounter appropriate to a party of a given level is completely and utterly wrong.

That seems like a very blinkered point of view to me. There has to be provision for people who have never DMed before.

Jack the Lad fucked around with this message at 18:58 on Jul 14, 2014

# ¿ Jul 14, 2014 18:46

Jack the Lad: Jan 20, 2009; Feed the Pubs

Lothire posted:

There was a tweet some time ago about an alpha player handbook going around and I managed to get a peak at what internet denizens were claiming was it. I'm starting to suspect it may have actually been the secret playtest packet, as some of the pages looked identical to the ones a goon had posted in this or the other thread (specifically the fighter maneuvers).

Nope, there is definitely a 267 page alpha PHB floating around (107 pages or 40% of which is spells).

# ¿ Jul 16, 2014 19:03

Jack the Lad: Jan 20, 2009; Feed the Pubs

slydingdoor posted:

I bet making it impossible for one guy to be "sticky" to multiple/potentially infinite targets without magic is a grog thing.

One of my buddy's old criticisms is that optimized characters started out as "one man armies." He meant basically everyone in 4 could take way too many off-turn actions and kill a million mooks if they all tried to go after the back line. Even if "one went left while the other went right." It was as if the trap running thief no longer mattered because the new edition made them all instantly and infinitely reset. Combat Reflexes had bothered him for the same reason in 3rd, just not to the same degree.

At least some classes and feats will allow for single target off-turn chasing in 5, and some immobilizing options.

I think that's a common criticism, and it's doubly ironic given that even in the 5e Fighter design goals Mearls tells us:

quote:

A wizard might annihilate a small army of orcs with a volley of fireballs and cones of cold. The fighter does the same sword blow by sword blow, taking down waves of orcs each round.

quote:

while the fighter draws on mundane talent, we�re talking about mundane within the context of a mythical, fantasy setting. Beowulf slew Grendel by tearing his arm off. He later killed a dragon almost singlehandedly. Roland slew or gravely injured four hundred Saracens in a single battle. In the world of D&D, a skilled fighter is a one-person army.

Of course, we've ended up with a level 20 fighter that can kill a maximum of 8 orcs in a round and a level 20 wizard that can kill 804 (with meteor swarm), but, you know, still.

Jack the Lad fucked around with this message at 15:41 on Jul 18, 2014

# ¿ Jul 18, 2014 15:33

Jack the Lad: Jan 20, 2009; Feed the Pubs

zfleeman posted:

Got my Starter Kit in the mail a couple days ago, and haven't opened it yet. As a guy who has only DM'd a little bit of 4E's "Essentials" box and a little bit of Pathfinder's Beginner Box, I'm curious if this is a good "D&D for idiots" starting point.

I like getting into the rules, but I play with people who don't want to spend an hour reading rules and tutorials before we start playing. As the DM, if I do a lot of the heavy-lifting with the Starter Kit (reading rules, prepping the game, becoming the 'teacher', etc...), will I be able to play quick, 'pick-up' games with my friends who know nothing about tabletop games?

I would definitely recommend 4e as easier for new players. The rules are consistent, balanced and intuitive and the action economy is super easy to understand. I actually ran 4e myself for the first time without having read any of the books beforehand in more than a skimming way (was super hype just to jump in) and had no problems learning as we went.

If you're playing in person, you can give your buddies physical power cards so that they understand what abilities they have available. You might also want to consider making simplified sheets for them. I really like these ones by the wonderful James Stowe:

Jack the Lad fucked around with this message at 16:07 on Jul 18, 2014

# ¿ Jul 18, 2014 16:01

Jack the Lad: Jan 20, 2009; Feed the Pubs

treeboy posted:

4e is great but drags the further you get and the more options you allow, I love the game but it has a ton of bloat. One thing I really do appreciate with the new game is the speed of combat encounters vs. 4e.

Not a rhetorical question - have you played 5e yet? Because in my experience so far it's not appreciably faster, especially when there's a lot of Advantage floating around. In our last session we had a fight with 5 PCs and 5 monsters take about 2 hours. When you have Fighters rolling 8 attack rolls and Wizards casting AoE in a Theatre of the Mind encounter, things take time to resolve.

# ¿ Jul 18, 2014 16:29

Jack the Lad: Jan 20, 2009; Feed the Pubs

treeboy posted:

I have, though not as much as 4e. I found low-mid levels to go pretty quickly, what level were you playing that 5 monsters took two hours?

Level 3

# ¿ Jul 18, 2014 16:36

Jack the Lad: Jan 20, 2009; Feed the Pubs

Recycle Bin posted:

How do people generally run combat without using a map? I've been reading through the basic rules and I was intrigued by the fact that they basically ignore grid-based combat that was such a cornerstone of 4e.

You basically just have to make it up.

It makes spells like Burning Hands more powerful because a 15 foot cone is smaller than you'd think but in Theatre of the Mind you can usually hit a bunch of bad guys with it.

# ¿ Jul 19, 2014 07:18

Jack the Lad: Jan 20, 2009; Feed the Pubs

MonsterEnvy posted:

Well we don't know 100% sure that will be the final design as the info is from outdated material. It's likely but not 100%.

Anyway even if it does stay largely the same it's not a bad subclass.

It actually is a bad subclass, even aside from that issue, as the problem is the effects are both limited (X/encounter) and weak.

Not only is there the whole roll to hit, then they roll to save thing, but some of the effects are actively useless (grant an ally an attack, no bonus or anything) and others are just really unimpactful or boring.

As you level up, the Wizard is gaining Evard's Black Tentacles, Phantasmal Killer, Polymorph, Dimension Door, Cloudkill, Dominate Person, Scrying, Wall of Force, Hold Monster, etc while you are still pushing a guy 15 feet or gaining advantage on your next attack or whatever.

Combined with the way that monster HP quickly and increasingly outscales Fighter DPR, it's a huge issue.

An optimal Fighter can expect to take 7 rounds to kill the Young Green Dragon in the Starter Set, being attacked back all the while. A Wizard can cast Polymorph and turn it into a toad immediately, and the dragon has a 30% chance to save. A Sorceror can reduce that to a 9% chance to save with Heightened Spell.

If the Wizard is a Necromancer, he can also (as well as casting Polymorph) have 16 skeleton buddies with crossbows, who each have 29 HP, shoot for 1d10+6 damage and who will on average kill the dragon in 2.3 rounds as opposed to the Fighter's 7 rounds.

The Fighter and the Wizard are just straight up playing fundamentally different games. There is no excusing or mitigating this.

Jack the Lad fucked around with this message at 10:53 on Jul 19, 2014

# ¿ Jul 19, 2014 09:06

Jack the Lad: Jan 20, 2009; Feed the Pubs

Gort posted:

While I do agree with pretty much all of the rest of your post, this is based on numbers where the fighter gets no magic items, correct? I think that's a flawed assumption. If this is anything like previous games the fighter will end up with a +5 sword that's on fire for 2d6 extra damage a hit (at the very least, this is just an item I know is in the game) as well as strength-boosting items.

What do the fighter DPR vs monster HP numbers look like with magical items assumed?

With a +2 magic weapon at level 8, it takes 5 rounds for a Fighter to kill the dragon - approximately twice as long as it takes a Necromancer Wizard's skeleton minions, even if the Wizard is just sitting in a lounge chair drinking a martini.

Also, the dragon's chance to save against the Polymorph drops to 20% (or 4% with Heighten Spell or two casts.)

# ¿ Jul 19, 2014 11:11

Jack the Lad: Jan 20, 2009; Feed the Pubs

Gort posted:

Leaving other classes out of it for the moment, do magic items fix the fighters problem with monster HP inflating faster than his DPR as levels increase?

I'm not at my computer so I can't do proper/fancy charts, but the short answer is no:

DPR as a percentage of monster HP and rounds to kill with and without Action Surge.

# ¿ Jul 19, 2014 11:28

Jack the Lad: Jan 20, 2009; Feed the Pubs

Polymorph is absolutely a combat obviation.

Like, that's clearly the intention, but you have an hour to set up 136 damage on a helpless toad/mouse/whatever with auto hits/auto crits.

If you're a necromancer your 20 skeletons auto hit and auto crit for a cool 340 average damage (160 damage minimum, if you roll 40d10 and get all 1s.)

Jack the Lad fucked around with this message at 20:00 on Jul 19, 2014

# ¿ Jul 19, 2014 19:55

Jack the Lad: Jan 20, 2009; Feed the Pubs

treeboy posted:

thats ridiculous, as DM i would say as soon as you deal 15 damage the Dragon reverts to normal and the other skeletons are attacking a dragon, not a mouse. You must have terrible DM's

edit: also what level does a necromancer have twenty skeletons?

Okay, there's an argument to be made about the simultaneity or otherwise of readied actions.

Readied actions are obviously only one of many things you can do to kill a Polymorphed dragon, though.

Level 8 (since the Dragon is CR8). You raise 4 at a go with a 4th level slot, so raise/raise/rest/raise/raise/rest/raise and save a slot for Polymorph. You can also save 2 slots for Polymorph and go with 16 skeletons.

# ¿ Jul 19, 2014 20:13

Jack the Lad: Jan 20, 2009; Feed the Pubs

treeboy posted:

also you're assuming there's a dozen or more suitable piles of bones available to Animate Dead from, even the +2 corpses for casting at 4th instead of 3rd requires 2 more appropriate piles. Unless you're in a bone yard i don't see that happening.

Yeah, you generally have a ton of prep time before you go to fight a dragon. So you hit up some cairns or graveyards or whatever. Assuming you don't already have the materials - personally, if I were a necromancer, I'd cart around a whole bunch of skeletons (disassembled for easy transport) and just raise them as needed.

You can totally ignore the skeleton part though if you want. You can turn this boss battle enemy into a cute tiny animal 70% of the time just by saying so, and that's a problem.

Jack the Lad fucked around with this message at 20:31 on Jul 19, 2014

# ¿ Jul 19, 2014 20:26

Jack the Lad: Jan 20, 2009; Feed the Pubs

MonsterEnvy posted:

What if you don't know you are going to fight a dragon. Dons't animate dead require an expensive materiel component as well.

Poly Morph will likely be a concentration spell and the Dragon will probably get a save each round.

This is true as well.

If you don't know you're going to fight a dragon, you just Polymorph it instead.

Animate Dead does not require an expensive material component.

Polymorph is concentration, but there are no periodic saves. It lasts an hour.

e: Seriously, Polymorph is the important part here.

Jack the Lad fucked around with this message at 20:37 on Jul 19, 2014

# ¿ Jul 19, 2014 20:35

Jack the Lad: Jan 20, 2009; Feed the Pubs

Nancy_Noxious posted:

Now I remeber why I hate 3e so much. Everytime a glaring system hole is pointed, its defenders go "oh, it's only a problem when the DM doesn't do X, Y or Z".

Also this. With some specific circumstances and mental acrobatics, you can sometimes make it seem okay (though I think not in this case i.e being able to easily turn a dragon into a mouse).

The point is, you don't have to give the same provisos for a Fighter's maneuvers. Like, ever. Because they do things like push a guy (Large or smaller only!) 15 feet. They don't literally transform the game world and the way you interact with it like spells do. They don't allow you to defeat enemies by ignoring big swathes of the rules.

IT BEGINS posted:

It's also the DM's that don't let the fighter have level-appropriate weapons are also the ones that tend to let a necromancer run around with 20 skeletons for fun. (it's still stupid, though. 8 skeletons is not unreasonable, and it's the rest of the party that can auto-hit as well. At the very least it's a whole fight reset.)

As I said, a level appropriate (+2) weapon takes the Fighter's RTK down to 5.

And yeah, at the very least with zero questionable stuff it's a free short rest during which the dragon cannot do anything. And narratively? It's a joke. A dragon attacks, you turn it into a mouse and set yourself up to fight it for an hour before it turns back. Imagine that in a book or movie or whatever.

Jack the Lad fucked around with this message at 20:50 on Jul 19, 2014

# ¿ Jul 19, 2014 20:47

Jack the Lad: Jan 20, 2009; Feed the Pubs

treeboy posted:

Where is the encounter construction CR/XP budget stuff, I can't find it for the life of me.

edit: found it from earlier in the thread

a Young Green Dragon would be a "Hard" fight for a 4 player party at lvl 8 (with some XP budget left over for minions). "Challenging" doesn't give enough of an XP pool to fit the dragon (3,900xp). I guess my point is that your situations where the party polymorph and finish off the dragon at their leisure are just as specific as those saying it probably wouldn't go down like that. As theres no accounting for specific players (who may just want to fight it normally) or GMs (who may over rule dumb alpha strikes with wandering monsters or miraculous saves) this probably would very rarely go down like a bugged boss in WoW

If your Wizard wants to cast fireball, that's great. That's never been a problem.

But the fact that your Wizard can turn the dragon (as you say, a "Hard" fight) into a mouse 70% of the time, is a problem.

There is no niche/specific situation required. If the Wizard has Polymorph prepared (and why wouldn't they) and encounters a dragon, this will happen.

You can't say "well the GM can just declare that it miraculously makes its save so it's not a problem" - that's ridiculous.

Jack the Lad fucked around with this message at 21:28 on Jul 19, 2014

# ¿ Jul 19, 2014 21:24

Jack the Lad: Jan 20, 2009; Feed the Pubs

treeboy posted:

When one assumes and adversarial DM then a "miracle save" is dicking over the players and their legitimate use of a codified exploit. But if one assumes a DM whose goal is to deliver fun dramatic story opportunity, then perhaps that's not letting the wizard solve all the issues all the time.

I'm not going to pretend that's easy, and it means listening to what players are (and aren't) telling you about what they like in their games, but if a failed polymorph means a rough fight where the players overcome a challenge and succeed vs. another night where Tim Fixes The Problem. Well Tim stole the show last week.

You're really close here, and this is the key bit:

quote:

if one assumes a DM whose goal is to deliver fun dramatic story opportunity, then perhaps that's not letting the wizard solve all the issues all the time

This is exactly what I've been saying, except that it's not the DM's job - it's the system's job.

And the system at the moment is exactly Tim Fixes the Problem. The mechanics lead directly to that kind of gameplay.

Because once again, Wizards can do literally anything and Fighters can do an extremely limited number of weak, realism-constrained gimmicks.

Jack the Lad fucked around with this message at 07:14 on Jul 20, 2014

# ¿ Jul 20, 2014 07:12

Jack the Lad: Jan 20, 2009; Feed the Pubs

That's the exact same list of feats from the February alpha except that they removed Scroll Scribe (which I still find funny. That they didn't want to call it Scribe Scroll).

It seems like most feats give you +1 to an ability score as well as another effect, which at least slightly counteracts the way it was looking as though +2 stat would always be the best option.

Lightly Armored -> Moderately Armored -> Heavily Armoured -> Heavy Armor Master is a feat chain.

There's also Medium Armor Master which is worthless, especially because Heavy Armor Master reduces piercing/slashing/bludgeoning damage you take to an amount equal to your Con modifier.

This is considered the same level of effect as Durable, which gives "when you roll a Hit Die to regain HP, the minimum you regain from the roll is your Con modifier".

:confused:

Also, Resilient gives you proficiency to a chosen save. So that's probably going to be fairly mandatory for most people to shore up those dump stats.

Jack the Lad fucked around with this message at 07:44 on Jul 21, 2014

# ¿ Jul 21, 2014 07:38

Jack the Lad: Jan 20, 2009; Feed the Pubs

Ferrinus posted:

Ahhhhh-hah. Can you take it multiple times? Even if you can't, we've definitely found our first feat tax. Gee, I wonder what save a spellcaster is going to choose...

Does the game let you buy Resilient for, like, Str or Int saves, by the by? Does any text warn you not to do this?

You can only take it once.

You can take it for any stat, and it also gives +1 to that stat.

No warnings or other notes of any kind, obviously.

Also, Toughness is now called Tough and it gives you 2HP per level.

# ¿ Jul 21, 2014 14:38

Jack the Lad: Jan 20, 2009; Feed the Pubs

quote:

@khelthros : The overchannel ability for wizards. Can it be used to max cantrip damage? At no cost as well, since it's a 0 level spell?
@mikemearls : as written, yes, but i'd house rule it to increase the damage by 1d12

No idea how I missed this originally. This may well give Wizards better at-will DPR than the fighter again - I'll run the numbers with and without Mearls' houserule.

# ¿ Jul 21, 2014 16:59

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# ¿ Apr 28, 2024 23:54

Jack the Lad: Jan 20, 2009; Feed the Pubs

To be fair the "Yes that is how the rule is written, but here is how I would houserule it" thing is pretty baffling/frustrating.

e: Also, I ran the numbers and overchannelled cantrips do not beat the Fighter's at-will DPR. His rock 'em sock 'em robots swing sword all day niche is safe.

Jack the Lad fucked around with this message at 17:27 on Jul 21, 2014

# ¿ Jul 21, 2014 17:22

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