D&D NEXT: Infinite Posts of the Abyss

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Jack the Lad: Jan 20, 2009; Feed the Pubs

Ah, I see. The designers, (Mearls & Co) who have been working on the game for 2-3 years, aren't used to it, and that's why they have included single digit numbers of Int/Cha/Str saves but 50+ of the other attributes.

It makes sense when you think about it.

# ¿ Jul 21, 2014 18:53

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# ¿ May 14, 2024 10:06

Jack the Lad: Jan 20, 2009; Feed the Pubs

Every spell description, of every class and level, is in one big alphabetical list

That's the only thing about the layout that really gets me. Mostly because I really, genuinely don't understand it at all. Someone decided that that was the best way to present them.

# ¿ Jul 22, 2014 20:59

Jack the Lad: Jan 20, 2009; Feed the Pubs

Interview with Mearls here where he talks about rests:

quote:

Will we see any incarnation of the �at will/encounter/daily� power system from fourth edition? I thought it was innovative, and was one of my favorite parts of that system.

Yes, though not every class uses it. The fighter is a great example of this. The simple fighter essentially has no powers. The complex fighter regains expertise dice, the resource used to power maneuvers, after taking a one hour rest. In essence, those are encounter powers.

Many classes have abilities that come back after taking a long rest � an eight hour break � and a shorter, one hour rest.

It�s funny, because in fourth edition the short rest was usually a trivial obstacle. By lengthening it, we found that people were much more careful with their �encounter� powers and felt genuinely rewarded when they were able to regain them. It�s one of those subtle but important shifts in the game.

Overall, what we found is that some people liked the idea of encounter abilities, but they didn�t like making all the classes have the same number and type of powers. Players really love the idea of each class as a unique thing.

# ¿ Jul 24, 2014 10:50

Jack the Lad: Jan 20, 2009; Feed the Pubs

Ferrinus posted:

It honestly is an improvement over 3.5 in many ways, and it's no doubt faster to run than 4e was. This board's complaints about 5e (or at least, my complaints about 5e) boil down to:

1. It pretends it's a theater of the mind (as opposed to grid/map-using) game when many of its rules pretend otherwise

2. Like every other edition of D&D but the fourth one, it reserves all its agency and doting attention for spellcasting characters, leaving non-spellcasters thin and boring

I would say that poor/inconsistent monster design and a return to the useless CR system for encounter building is the biggest problem aside from the Wizard/Mundane divide, but the ToTM thing is big too.

Both issues make running 5e a real pain. You have to eyeball every encounter to determine whether it will be a challenge without wiping the party.

Faceless Clock posted:

For what it's worth I really didn't like running 4E because no one I played with is particularly hardcore about table tops, so flipping through 15 powers and adding bonuses from five different pieces of gear every turn made it a huge slog. To me, it felt like a game that was trying to emulate a computer game, and forgot that computers can make accounting for hundreds of modifiers trivial.

This is easily circumvented by having your players write the bonus, damage and effect of each of their powers on their sheet (or making sheets for them with that information).

Generally they'll have the same attack bonus for almost all of their attacks, so it's actually way easier than it sounds.

Jack the Lad fucked around with this message at 18:12 on Jul 25, 2014

# ¿ Jul 25, 2014 18:09

Jack the Lad: Jan 20, 2009; Feed the Pubs

The Table of Contents and Sorceror from the PHB have been released:

Jack the Lad fucked around with this message at 18:37 on Jul 25, 2014

# ¿ Jul 25, 2014 18:34

Jack the Lad: Jan 20, 2009; Feed the Pubs

Here's the problem, though; as a class niche, 'has a magic sword' is pretty lame compared to 'tears trolls' arms off with bare hands'

# ¿ Jul 26, 2014 05:36

Jack the Lad: Jan 20, 2009; Feed the Pubs

Kai Tave posted:

Huh. So is Spellbound Kingdoms any good? The FAQ talks a good game about tactical fighting without needing a grid and magic that doesn't break the game etc. and it's on sale on Drivethru right now but this is literally the first time I've ever heard of it.

quote:

There's no initiative. Everyone goes at once. If you can guess what your opponent is going to throw at you - a Haymaker, say, or a Trip - then you can choose your own maneuver to counter that. You're aided in your guessing because each fighting style is different in how one attack sets up the next. Knowing what style your opponent is using is quite important. Not only does an opponent's style betray his possible attacks and counters, but it also allows you to change your own style, if you know more than one.

Twin Weapon Fighting, for instance, has lots of attacks, but not a lot of penetrating power. Guardsman is a good counter-style. But if you don't know Guardsman, and you're facing a TW Fighter, then you have to make do with the different maneuvers within a style that you do know. You'll have to keep your defenses up and time your attacks to when the TW Fighter is catching his breath, finding his balance, setting up a flurry, feinting (if you can guess when it's really a feint!), or moving.

All that is for physical combat. Spell-casting is another story.

Sounds kinda neat. Though of course so does 5e.

# ¿ Jul 26, 2014 16:39

Jack the Lad: Jan 20, 2009; Feed the Pubs

mastershakeman posted:

I've seen this played, actually. The pc was a sentient sword who was dominating a npc shepherd that found the sword. The npc was the one who got all the experience though and when he got disarmed everything went real bad

Clearly you would/should physically fuse to your host's body.

Stormgale posted:

Having actually played the system a few times it is neat, the way combat works is that each fighting style (martial or magic) is a tree or web you traverse only able to move to a point on the 2d tree directly horizontal or vertical with you, thus the powerful moves are locked behind a specific sequence of moves (and send you back to the start usually). The fact they are visual trees mean you can have a copy of each tree for who you are fighting so you can keep a rough idea of what they are doing.

My favourite part is that you are functionally Immortal (can still be taken out of scenes but not dead or trapped without recourse) while you still have things you fight for in the world (think intimacies you have for things or people) making emotions powerful and having death or loss be an arc for both PC's and villains (if the gm deems them worth having such defences/ the book says having NPCs have this immunity being for major long running antagonists).

If people want to hear more I could do some wrote ups from the copy I have for the chat thread or fatal and friends.

I'd love to see a writeup. It actually sounds really cool.

# ¿ Jul 26, 2014 16:58

Jack the Lad: Jan 20, 2009; Feed the Pubs

Class Options article.

quote:

Barbarian: A barbarian picks a primal path that reflects the nature of the character's rage. The two options in the Player's Handbook are the Path of the Berserker and the Path of the Totem Warrior. The berserker fights with an implacable fury, while the totem warrior channels the magic of beasts to augment his or her rage.

Bard: Each bard is inspired by a college�a loose affiliation of like-minded bards who share lore, stories, and performances. The Player's Handbook presents the College of Lore, which focuses on knowledge and performance, and the College of Valor, which focuses on inspiring bravery on the battlefield.

Cleric: Cleric domains reflect the nature of the gods and shape the magic a character wields. The domains in the Player's Handbook are Knowledge, Life, Light, Nature, Tempest, Trickery, and War.

Druid: A druid joins a circle�one of a number of loose alliances of like-minded druids who share similar outlooks on nature, balance, and the way of druidic magic. The Circle of the Land allows a druid to select a type of terrain from which he or she draws magic. The Circle of the Moon augments a druid's ability to transform into various beasts.

Fighter: All fighters select a martial archetype that reflects a specific approach to combat. The Champion is a mighty warrior who scores deadly critical hits in combat. The Battle Master is a flexible, cunning tactician. The Eldritch Knight masters magic that allows him or her to protect allies and devastate foes.

Monk: A monk commits to a monastic tradition, defined by a specific form of martial arts that helps channel and shape the use of ki energy. The Way of the Open Hand augments a monk's unarmed strikes and allows mastery of the deadly quivering palm technique. The Way of Shadow turns a monk into a stealthy warrior who manipulates darkness to confuse and confound enemies. The Way of the Four Elements allows a monk to channel ki into spells and blasts of elemental energy.

Paladin: All paladins take an oath�a pledge to a code of conduct that guides their lives and shapes their abilities. The Oath of Devotion binds a paladin to the ideal of justice, virtue, and order. The Oath of the Ancients pledges a paladin to protect the natural world and preserve hope across the land. The Oath of Vengeance turns a paladin into a deadly avenger who seeks out and punishes wrongdoers.

Ranger: A ranger selects an archetype that reflects his or her ideals and relationship to nature. The Hunter stands guard in the wilderness, stopping threats before they can menace civilization. The Beast Master cultivates a powerful bond to creatures, fighting alongside them to bring down enemies.

Rogue: A rogue selects a roguish archetype that reflects his or her approach to crime and chicanery. The Thief is an evasive, sneaky trickster. The Assassin is a focused and quiet killer. The Arcane Trickster uses enchantment and illusion magic to enact his or her schemes.

Sorcerer: A sorcerer's magic arises from a sorcerous origin�the event, ancestry, or quirk of fate that gifted the character with power. The Draconic Bloodline reflects a sorcerer's distant dragon ancestry, and grants powers that reflect a dragon's nature. Wild Magic imbues a sorcerer with the energy of raw chaos, producing unpredictable results from his or her magic.

Warlock: A warlock's patron shapes this class's power. The Archfey grants beguiling magic useful for trickery and quick escapes. The Fiend imparts the power of destructive fire and diabolic resistance. The mysterious Great Old One grants telepathic abilities and chilling glimpses into the nature of the multiverse.

Wizard: A wizard selects an arcane tradition�the specific approach to the study of magic that shapes his or her outlook and talents. Though many traditions exist, the Player's Handbook focuses on the established schools of D&D magic�Abjuration, Conjuration, Divination, Enchantment, Evocation, Illusion, Necromancy, and Transmutation.

# ¿ Jul 28, 2014 15:13

Jack the Lad: Jan 20, 2009; Feed the Pubs

Generic Octopus posted:

A little curious, was Arcane Trickster in the leaked phb? And if so, was it basically E.Knight but with different spell schools?

Right, enchantment or illusion, capping at 4th level spells (which you hit at level 19).

Mendrian posted:

Huh. Okay. Paladin-Avenger option. That sounds intriguing. Any info on that?

You get some oath spells, channel divinity cause fear, you gain advantage on enemies who hit allies near you, you can attack your oath target when they make an attack and at level 20 you can turn into an angel for an hour gaining a 60 foot fly speed and a fear aura.

# ¿ Jul 28, 2014 15:34

Jack the Lad: Jan 20, 2009; Feed the Pubs

Generic Octopus posted:

That's what I expected, but I'm still disappointed. Strikes me as super lazy too.

This pretty much sums up my thoughts on all of 5e so far.

I mean, there is some randomly cool stuff - spells, mostly - but it all just rather reeks of :effort:

# ¿ Jul 28, 2014 16:03

Jack the Lad: Jan 20, 2009; Feed the Pubs

ritorix posted:

I guess you could attack, action point, cast a spell. Uh. Yeah that's a thing I guess. Best use of action points: casting spells.

A Wizard can also take 2 levels of Fighter to be able to cast a spell, action surge, cast a spell.

:smugwizard:

# ¿ Jul 28, 2014 17:03

Jack the Lad: Jan 20, 2009; Feed the Pubs

dwarf74 posted:

Nope, only 1 spell (+ maybe a cantrip) per round.

It's not THAT hosed.

Hm! I thought that was the case at first but when I checked in Basic I couldn't find it and figured they removed the limitation for whatever reason. Where's it at?

# ¿ Jul 28, 2014 17:24

Jack the Lad: Jan 20, 2009; Feed the Pubs

dwarf74 posted:

Hmm also. I only see it about bonus action spells (under casting times), so maybe it is that hosed!

Yep, I think so :unsmith:

# ¿ Jul 28, 2014 17:45

Jack the Lad: Jan 20, 2009; Feed the Pubs

treeboy posted:

what are you guys talking about? using extra attacks for additional spells?

Action Surge gives you an extra action, nothing to do with attacks.

But yeah - taking 2 levels of Fighter to gain Action Surge to cast 2 spells in one round.

# ¿ Jul 28, 2014 17:55

Jack the Lad: Jan 20, 2009; Feed the Pubs

treeboy posted:

I'm...not sure about this. The rules regarding bonus action spells specifically state you can cast no other spells on your turn other than the bonus action spell, except maybe a cantrip. The problem is Action Surge says it gives an additional action and "maybe a bonus action"

Seems like they were editing language and messed it up.

edit: i don't see why it would limit you from casting another spell when using a bonus action but not limit casting with two "normal" actions

Right. Action Surge doesn't give an additional action and "maybe a bonus action" - it gives an additional action on top of your regular action and possible bonus action.

So I think it works. A 2 level Fighter dip seems like a nice one for Wizards with some spell progression under their belt.

# ¿ Jul 28, 2014 18:03

Jack the Lad: Jan 20, 2009; Feed the Pubs

ProfessorProf posted:

It's the same problem I had with Final Fantasy 13 and Diablo 3: 4e cut out all the pointless obfuscating nonsense that got in the way of the same Core Experience that previous editions ultimately promised, but once it was laid bare, you just realize how much of the experience was made of pointless obfuscating nonsense, and how there's not really much left when you take it out.

And then you can't go back to the old edition, either, after how transparent 4e made the bullshit. I liked 4e more than 3e overall, but I think 4e was more to blame for me moving on to DW and Fate.

Holy poo poo. I feel like these last few posts have actually been kinda revelatory for me, too.

This is exactly it. People are okay with playing a bad system if that system is presented in such a way that it hides its own badness.

# ¿ Jul 31, 2014 21:49

Jack the Lad: Jan 20, 2009; Feed the Pubs

Lord of Bore posted:

Putting this train back on the tracks

Feat preview ahoy

Since February:

Durable has changed from Con to 2x Con.
Dungeon Delver is unchanged.
Elemental Adept is unchanged.

A Catastrophe posted:

I'm all for 4e style design. But it's a game that needed a .5 and a sequel, and instead it got essentials and 5e.

This is very true, too. I remember being ridiculously hype when 5e was announced - assuming that they would take 4e and build on it - and then just getting progressively less interested as more was revealed.

# ¿ Jul 31, 2014 23:41

Jack the Lad: Jan 20, 2009; Feed the Pubs

Mike Mearls loves lolrandom monkeycheese wackiness, though.

I believe he played a dwarven rapper in one of the 5e livestreams.

Also, in the feats article he tells us:

quote:

in my current campaign I�m playing Kel Kendeen, a chaotic neutral wizard dedicated to chaos and anarchy. I took the Lucky feat, which gives me the ability to roll an additional d20 when making an attack roll, ability check, or saving throw, and choose which result to use. It�s extremely useful for getting out of tight spots, such as when I�m saddled with disadvantage or really need to make a roll. In portraying Kel, the Lucky feat fits him like a glove. As an adept of chaos, he constantly puts himself into dangerous positions�such as wearing a crown of ultimate evil or demanding an audience with the tyrannical overlord of a city�only to have things bounce his way. Fortune favors a fool, at least in Kel�s case.

# ¿ Aug 2, 2014 00:18

Jack the Lad: Jan 20, 2009; Feed the Pubs

Flexible Attacks (13th Age) are really, really boring/weak/uninspiring. Like, the effects are most definitely not so strong that it would be overpowered to allow the player to decide when to use them.

"Turn a melee crit against you into a normal hit... until the start of your next turn"

"Reroll 1s on damage"

"+2 AC"

I mean, a class feature that was "you cannot be critically hit ever" wouldn't even be overpowered.

Also, Skilled Intercept is pretty bad at letting the Fighter be a defender, they get no out of combat features, etc.

The 5e Battle Master's maneuvers are significantly stronger and more relevant, especially since they can choose when to use them, get a damage bonus for doing so and blow them all in one turn for a nova if they want.

Jack the Lad fucked around with this message at 11:38 on Aug 4, 2014

# ¿ Aug 4, 2014 11:34

Jack the Lad: Jan 20, 2009; Feed the Pubs

Generic Octopus posted:

Thing I don't get is, 4e had the "simple fighter" thing with Essentials (you could argue they're not really that simple; I don't agree, but that's not the point I'm getting at). Slayers and Knights used just basic attacks, and their features were all some augmentation of the basic attack.

But they were still good in the sense that they could contribute a lot to the party. Hell the Slayer is near the top of the striker pile. That's the source of my frustration; I don't care so much if the fighter is the the "simple" class, but you can make something simple that is also effective.

What I've seen of the Next and 13a fighters are classes made simple to the point where they don't seem to do much.

Right. The 4e Knight was actually a super strong defender - right from level 1 you can slow and prone someone by hitting them with Hold the Line + World Serpent's Grasp, and you can do that to any number of enemies who violate your aura.

Later on you can add stuff like Eldritch Strike + Battering Shield + Polearm Momentum. Other games just don't have options that powerful available to non-magical characters, and it sucks.

Jack the Lad fucked around with this message at 17:10 on Aug 4, 2014

# ¿ Aug 4, 2014 17:07

Jack the Lad: Jan 20, 2009; Feed the Pubs

wallawallawingwang posted:

Arggh, If Next actually wrote rules that matched the play style they TELL YOU TO PLAY Theater of the Mind would work fine, even as a tactical thing. Plenty of games of actual rules that tell you how to track positions in a meaningful way without using a grid or minis. Hell, some of the older editions kind of hinted at that sort of thing with ranks and marching order.

Right. At the moment, it's "Can I reach the orc attacking the Wizard? What about the two attacking the Cleric? Could I engage those both at once? Is the one attacking the Wizard close enough that I could use my maneuver to push it 15 feet towards the Cleric and then engage it and those two orcs all at once? If I do that, will I provoke an opportunity attack from the orc shaman between the Wizard and the Cleric?"

# ¿ Aug 4, 2014 18:51

Jack the Lad: Jan 20, 2009; Feed the Pubs

Piell posted:

Anyone who recommends Pathfinder for beginners is an idiot.

I would tend to agree with this. It's a system with a lot of bloat, a lot of baggage and a lot of actively and even deliberately bad design in the name of tradition and 'roleplay not rollplay'.

# ¿ Aug 5, 2014 09:51

Jack the Lad: Jan 20, 2009; Feed the Pubs

The Battle Master's level 15 feature, Relentless, has been heavily nerfed.

Before: If you start a turn with 0 Superiority Dice, regain 2.

Now: If you have 0 Superiority Dice when you roll initiative, regain 1.

# ¿ Aug 6, 2014 09:16

Jack the Lad: Jan 20, 2009; Feed the Pubs

DalaranJ posted:

15th level is the level where the transmuter feature includes "you now have an infinite amount of gold" right?

No, Transmuters get that (60,200 gp per 16 hours) at level 14. Along with the ability to reduce a willing creature's age by 3d10 years, remove all curses/diseases/poisons and restore someone to full HP, bring someone back from the dead or turn a 5 foot cube of one material into another material of equal or lesser value.

e: Seems like these features may have been nerfed in the release PHB.

They also get proficiency on Con saves at level 6, which saves them a feat and allows them to take Resilient for another save.

Jack the Lad fucked around with this message at 14:51 on Aug 6, 2014

# ¿ Aug 6, 2014 14:39

Jack the Lad: Jan 20, 2009; Feed the Pubs

Daetrin posted:

While I know D&D is a murderhobo game...

Being able to just...grant eternal youth at will? That sounds like it'd break all of economy and society.

That's ignoring the infinite gold thing, too.

Yep.

The infinite gold thing has been removed (instead you can turn one nonmagical item into another of equal or lesser value) and turning materials into other materials only lasts 1 hour now.

Panacea (remove all curses, disease, poison, regain all hit points), restore life (raise dead), and restore youth are still in, though.

Every king will have a transmuter on staff, I imagine.

# ¿ Aug 6, 2014 15:52

Jack the Lad: Jan 20, 2009; Feed the Pubs

The Inspirational Reading appendix is a lot better than I'd expected.

I particularly like this title.

Jack the Lad fucked around with this message at 21:21 on Aug 6, 2014

# ¿ Aug 6, 2014 21:12

Jack the Lad: Jan 20, 2009; Feed the Pubs

Wizard spells.

Monk stuff. How about that level 20 feature?

Warlock stuff.

Jack the Lad fucked around with this message at 10:31 on Aug 7, 2014

# ¿ Aug 7, 2014 10:14

Jack the Lad: Jan 20, 2009; Feed the Pubs

Zombies' Downfall posted:

Quoting in hopes it will convince Jack the Lad to post a picture of Wish

No picture, sorry (they're not mine) but second-hand, it can duplicate any 8th level or lower spell without using components, and has a handful of additional effects: creating a non magical item of up to 25k in value, healing large groups, forcing a reroll on an action in prior turns (this seems to work retroactively, I have no idea how it's supposed to be handled). Also allows reality shaping effects, prone to DM shenanigans, with severe drawbacks including a chance of never being able to cast wish again.

Also, Enchanter wizards are pretty crazy:

quote:

Hypnotic Gaze: Choose a creature within 5 feet,creature must make a wis save or be unable to move, or act and is visibly dazed.

Instinctive Charm: As a reaction to an attack you may force a wisdom save, and force your attacker to divert the attack to the nearest target in reach.

Split Enchantment: When you cast an Enchantment spell of 1st or higher that targets only one creature, you may target two.

Alter Memories: When you charm a creature you can make it forget that it had acted under magical duress. Additionally during the spell's duration you can make the chosen creature forget some of the time it spent charmed.

# ¿ Aug 7, 2014 11:29

Jack the Lad: Jan 20, 2009; Feed the Pubs

homullus posted:

4e combat is "disproportionately long" (and fun!) rather than "very, very long", and assumes the presence of the full party in each, which leads to a different sort of play experience.

The whole '4e combat is long and fiddly' thing really bugs me because it's become an accepted talking point - even among fans of 4e - but in my experience it's no worse than any other RPG.

My turns take ~90 seconds resolve tops. "I move here and use [standard action power] [and maybe minor action power]" plus rolls and fluff.

You'll have a problem if everyone is like "oh, huh, it's my turn? Wait, which one of those monsters is bloodied again? Who needs healing? Did I use my daily yet? Okay hang on let me decide what power to use" but that is not a failing of the system.

When I GM I go around the table like "Jim you're up, Bob you're up next" and Bob decides what he's gonna do while Jim takes his turn. It's super easy.

In terms of modifiers, go build a level 10 character and see how many fiddly/eont modifiers you end up with. If they really bother you it's easy not to pick any at all.

# ¿ Aug 7, 2014 15:34

Jack the Lad: Jan 20, 2009; Feed the Pubs

Father Wendigo posted:

I'm starting to think they're just screwing Martial-powered characters for no reason other than spite now. Great name for a capstone, too!

Hey man don't be too down - they also get to turn invisible.

At level 18. For 1 minute. And 4 ki points.

# ¿ Aug 7, 2014 15:37

Jack the Lad: Jan 20, 2009; Feed the Pubs

petrol blue posted:

It is a failing of the system if 4 of 6 players don't seem to have a grasp of it after two years of (roughly monthly) combats.

e: and this was with things like colour-coded character sheets with the totals pre worked out and so on.

I don't get how this could happen, especially with colour coding etc. I really, genuinely don't understand it.

4e's rules are intuitive enough that I was able to pick up and play without even reading them first.

Once you understand movement, OAs, the four defences and the three actions - which can be explained in 5 minutes - you pretty much have it.

# ¿ Aug 7, 2014 16:13

Jack the Lad: Jan 20, 2009; Feed the Pubs

I still haven't seen the final version first hand, but in the playtest it was:

quote:

Beginning at 5th level, when a creature that you can see attacks you from within 50 feet of you, you can use your reaction to magically compel the attacker to direct its attack elsewhere. You must choose to use this feature before knowing whether the attack hits or misses. If you use it, the attacker must make a Wisdom saving throw against your spell save DC. A creature that cannot be charmed automatically succeeds. On a failed save, the attacker must target the creature (other than you) that is closest to it. If multiple creatures are closest, the attacker chooses which one to target. The attack is wasted if no eligible targets are within range.

# ¿ Aug 7, 2014 16:48

Jack the Lad: Jan 20, 2009; Feed the Pubs

Laphroaig posted:

Ok, so it hopefully got changed or removed in the final version. Ideally they changed it to imposes disadvantage, things immune to charm are immune.

Things immune to charm are already immune.

The effect of Instinctive Charm is the same in the PHB as in the playtest; I'm just not 100% on whether any other limitations have been imposed, but it sounds like not.

In the playtest, Wizards also had Aura of Antipathy.

Like, as well as Instinctive Charm:

quote:

Starting at 2nd level, you radiate a magical aura that causes nearby attackers to doubt their resolve to strike you. Any creature within 10 feet of you has disadvantage on melee attacks against you while you can take actions. Creatures that cannot be charmed are immune to this effect.

It could be worse!

Jack the Lad fucked around with this message at 16:57 on Aug 7, 2014

# ¿ Aug 7, 2014 16:52

Jack the Lad: Jan 20, 2009; Feed the Pubs

The attack is wasted if no eligible targets are within range.

If you're an eligible target when they make the attack, you are an eligible target when they fail their save.

If they could fail and still attack you that line would do nothing.

# ¿ Aug 7, 2014 18:08

Jack the Lad: Jan 20, 2009; Feed the Pubs

Here are a bunch more pages including the Rogue, Gnome, Half-Orc, Sailor, Charlatan and Gods.

Half-Orcs aren't rapey any more!

# ¿ Aug 7, 2014 18:44

Jack the Lad: Jan 20, 2009; Feed the Pubs

Stormgale posted:

I love the level 17 of the assassin, they make a save or take double damage from your attack?

Does this include sneak attack? IS this at all comparable to a level 17 wizard? (no)

Level 17 is when level 9 spells become available and the Wizard starts Shapechanging into a Balor.

So not really.

# ¿ Aug 7, 2014 18:50

Jack the Lad: Jan 20, 2009; Feed the Pubs

seebs posted:

See, Magic is indeed very clear. But I have seen people who have been playing casually for years be *entirely unaware* of rules. (Like, two friends of mine who had been playing for maybe five years didn't know about mana burn. Although I think that's no longer a thing.) And I have spent time trying to figure out how things worked from the rulebook, and ended up not sure on occasion... But mostly, that is a very complicated set of rules.

I am pretty sure that 5e's tolerance for "up to the GM" is an intentional design choice, specifically accepting a much broader range of ambiguity in exchange for a much, much, shorter set of rules.

The net effect is that, overall, I think it's mostly clearer. I mean, Pathfinder is insanely carefully worked out... And I have seen their designers disagree on even fairly basic rulings, because it turns out that it's still not stable enough. The obvious one being fury's fall/agile maneuvers; the dev answer was that if you have fury's fall, and take agile maneuvers, yes, this actually *reduces* your bonus on trip attacks, because the dev in question believes that ability scores themselves are "sources". I mean, just read the Pathfinder rules forum sometime. If you cast Fabricate, does the fact that the material shaped into the thing you make was the "material component" mean that the material in question is then annihilated by the spell casting, leaving you with nothing? So far as I can tell, rules-as-written, yes.

So basically: I don't think that "fewer ambiguities" and "clearer" are necessarily the same thing at all.

I mean absolutely no offence when I say this, but I am 99% sure you would have a different opinion if you had read or played 4e.

# ¿ Aug 7, 2014 19:01

Jack the Lad: Jan 20, 2009; Feed the Pubs

Iunnrais posted:

One of my friends is trying to convince me that 5e is the greatest thing, simply because of the Advantage mechanic of "roll 2d20, use the higher result". What do people think about this single mechanic?

It's okay I guess? It's basically just +4/+5 but it also prevents the GM from awarding more granular bonuses.

# ¿ Aug 7, 2014 19:30

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# ¿ May 14, 2024 10:06

Jack the Lad: Jan 20, 2009; Feed the Pubs

seebs posted:

Roll with advantage: average 13.825
Roll with disadvantage: average 7.175
1d0 straight: average 10.5

So that's +/-3.325.

And honestly... I don't actually care about more-granular bonuses, and I do care about having to add five or six numbers to a bunch of things, especially if which five or six numbers changes every round.

(Posted before the edit to the previous post, which now says "okay, I guess".)

I think it's fair to say that most rolls in D&D fall between requiring a 6 and a 16.

# ¿ Aug 7, 2014 19:41

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