Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
Mormon Star Wars
Aug 13, 2005
It's a minotaur race...

I wonder if the advanced races are going to have subraces, too. That'd be rad.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Mormon Star Wars
Aug 13, 2005
It's a minotaur race...

If you have to hide in the janitor's closet of the castle you are invading for a full hour in order to use your encounter power, it's not an encounter power, it's a daily. No one out adventuring is going to take an hour between every combat.

Mormon Star Wars
Aug 13, 2005
It's a minotaur race...

Kai Tave posted:

I don't know about anyone else but this sounds like the definition of good timing to me, that is to say that White Wolf released an RPG that happened to tap into a subculture right at the time that subculture was primed for a thing like Vampire. But there have been so many roleplaying games before and after Vampire that have aimed themselves at all manner of genres and subcultures...there's a glam rock RPG out there, Harry Potter knockoffs, Hong Kong kung-fu movies and Hollywood action movies and superhero comics, but somehow the Marvel movies exploding in the mainstream didn't turn the Marvel Heroic RPG into the new hotness.

It's not as easy as just saying "aim for a market and cater to it" because RPG designers have done that repeatedly and for every White Wolf you have dozens of endeavors with no bigger impact than any other also-ran. I agree that there's nothing about it that fundamentally couldn't happen again, but practically it seems pretty obvious that White Wolf benefited from no small amount of good fortune.

There's also the factor that Vampire seemed a lot simpler than many of it's competitors. What seems more intimidating, creating 2e+ D&D characters, or making a vampire character? Even though there was still systems mastery, one consisted of filling in dots like a scantron sheet.

Mormon Star Wars
Aug 13, 2005
It's a minotaur race...

Play Neutral or Good drow all the time.

Mormon Star Wars
Aug 13, 2005
It's a minotaur race...

treeboy posted:


worst case scenario the party shows up relatively fresh with maybe a dozen skeletons left over to find either 1) A dragon that's long gone because it didn't want to wait around to find out how the story ends

So your suggestion for balancing an encounter where a necromancer fights a dragon is to not have a dragon there to fight?

I thought it was Dungeons and Dragons, not Dungeons and Empty Rooms.

Mormon Star Wars
Aug 13, 2005
It's a minotaur race...

It seems to me like a dungeon with enough traps designed to kill 60 skeletons would probably TPK a group without 60 skeletons in the first few rooms.

Mormon Star Wars
Aug 13, 2005
It's a minotaur race...

Stormgale posted:

So I got to sleep wakeup and we get like 100 posts of skeleton Chat, now for an addition to this discussion:

If you want a mythical figure who fights and does awesome stuff in 5e Which class should you play?

((It's the warlock))

((They make really good fighting types due to pact weapon + all the stuff they can throw on it))

((Caster supremacy))

Chain pact sucks, though. You know what is worth giving up PHENOMENAL COSMIC POWER? An "improved familiar" that does not scale at all. At 15th level, you can at-will hold a demon, though!

Mormon Star Wars
Aug 13, 2005
It's a minotaur race...

Also in the Hamzanama, the spirits of Gabriel, Khizr, and Ali show up and bestow our heroes Amir Hamza, Amar the Ayyar, and Muqbil the Archer, with the gifts of Ascendant Luck in Combat, Faster-Than-Wind Speed, and Supernatural Peerless Archery.

How come this stuff never happens in D&D.

Mormon Star Wars
Aug 13, 2005
It's a minotaur race...

jigokuman posted:

Druids represent professional wrestling, adjourned every full moon.

WHO WILL WIN THE HIEROPHANTS BELT?

Mormon Star Wars
Aug 13, 2005
It's a minotaur race...

Alright, since 5e is going with "Ranger spends their action on their pet attacking," can a ranger upgrade their pet equivalent to a weapon? Like, if they decide to focus on BEASTMASTERING instead of archery or stabbing, will their damage scale?

Mormon Star Wars
Aug 13, 2005
It's a minotaur race...

MonsterEnvy posted:

Could you stop with the skeletons at this point it's starting to get really annoying.

At level 15 the necromancer can summon the dreaded Red Skelton:

Mormon Star Wars
Aug 13, 2005
It's a minotaur race...

LuiCypher posted:

Crap, read the Old Testament. Samson kills an entire army with a donkey's jawbone and tears down an entire evil temple (albeit at the cost of his life) with a quick prayer and awe-inspiring strength.

In the Hamzanama a fighter, a thief, and an archer are just constantly wandering into sorcerer's tilisms (alternate universes customized by the sorcerer) and messing them up.

Mormon Star Wars
Aug 13, 2005
It's a minotaur race...

Can a Tome Warlock cast the skeleton summoning spell? I'm wondering if you could play a simple necromancer by running a Tome warlock.

Mormon Star Wars
Aug 13, 2005
It's a minotaur race...

There's the second half of the coin, too, which is that since casters can do anything, they are basically unplayable if you don't love Vancian magic. I like having various choice on the ground, but not managing how times to memorize Web out of 25 slots.

If I play a necromancer I'm not playing it so I can decide if I should have six copies of mirror image or three empowered or a maximized mirror image. I want to play a dude that cackles, points his bony minion at his enemy, and shoots plagues at people like a green, spore-ridden Emperor Palpatine.

Mormon Star Wars
Aug 13, 2005
It's a minotaur race...

Libertad! posted:

If 4E is Communism and 3E/5E is Capitalism, then what economic ideology does the OSR adhere to?

The Confederate Primer

Mormon Star Wars
Aug 13, 2005
It's a minotaur race...

C'mon, like there are any creatures in a dungeon that could knock a door off it's hinges. What kind of rube do you take me for?

Mormon Star Wars
Aug 13, 2005
It's a minotaur race...

"You guys sound like you have hurt feelings.

Now please let me have a thread where anyone that says anything negative about my favorite game gets banned :qq:"

Mormon Star Wars
Aug 13, 2005
It's a minotaur race...

RPGnet allows you to create threads where anyone saying anything negative gets banned by putting [5e+] in the thread title. Perhaps that might be a better site for what some of you are looking for?

Mormon Star Wars
Aug 13, 2005
It's a minotaur race...

There are a lot of reverse-engineered BECMI class creation rules. In addition to Dragon Magazine's article on it (in the May 1986 issue, thanks Piazza!) there's this:

http://breeyark.org/building-the-perfect-class/

Mormon Star Wars
Aug 13, 2005
It's a minotaur race...

S.J. posted:

The D&D Attack Wing game is just the D&D version of the Star Trek Attack Wing / X-Wing game.

Does this mean you could have the enterprise or a star destroyer fight godzilla sized gnolls

Mormon Star Wars
Aug 13, 2005
It's a minotaur race...

SwitchbladeKult posted:

All I'm trying to do is demonstrate that there are reasonable ways in which you can prevent mobs from running past your tank to crush the wizard. Some times it's a pain in the dick to reach them or they have defenses besides AC or getting to the wizard would be tactical suicide.

I'm actually shocked no one has jumped in with "roles like tank, healer, and damage dealer don't exist in D&D".

All of your examples of ways that positioning can stop monsters without having to deal with mechanics can be solved by the monsters engaging in the duplicitous tactic of "stepping to the side, then walking forward."

Mormon Star Wars
Aug 13, 2005
It's a minotaur race...

Doodmons posted:

Can someone recap the wizard skeleton thing where every other class was being measured in terms of how many spell slots worth of skeletons they are? I missed all that and wasn't able to find it. Additionally, can someone recap the thing about dual hand crossbow/hand crossbow and tower shield SWAT teaming? That sounded hilarious and apparently it's super effective but I'm not seeing how it works with a cursory read of the PHB.

D&D 5e is


In other skeleton related questions, with at least one of the new books out, did anyone find a way to get undead summoning on a cleric or eldritch knight? Clerical necromancy was awesome in pretty much every previous edition of D&D.

Mormon Star Wars
Aug 13, 2005
It's a minotaur race...

The forgotten realms had REALMSPACE and that has to count for something, being the second best FR product. It even got it's own videogame that was kinda an adorable Sid Meier's Pirates But In Space.

Grand Theft Mindspider.

Mormon Star Wars
Aug 13, 2005
It's a minotaur race...

Really Pants posted:

You could take every Forgotten Realms location and culture that isn't a half-assed copy of something historical, mash them all together into a single place, and nobody would even notice.

If they did that, my official canon knowledge of how many dicks Yuan-ti have in FR would go to waste*

*never read FR novels

edit: the answer is two.

Mormon Star Wars
Aug 13, 2005
It's a minotaur race...

Littlefinger posted:

Tuning back Drizzt, Elminster & co. is one thing, but when the gods being huge Mary Sue GMPCs constantly dicking around with events has been a defining flavor of your setting pretty much from the get-go, finding a new direction to replace it can get awkward.

Realtalk, cutting down on the number of Gods was pretty dumb because half the fun of Forgotten Realms games are allying yourself with bizarre gods. There used to brow a Drow pantheon that had some pretty interesting and ambiguous figures - all of them but Lolth got killed off in a novel series.

Mormon Star Wars
Aug 13, 2005
It's a minotaur race...

I hate consumables being required for healing because how are new players supposed to know how much is appropriate to spend on potions? Super easy to bankrupt yourself on consumables and not have enough left for other gear you are going to need.

Mormon Star Wars
Aug 13, 2005
It's a minotaur race...

Tunicate posted:

It means that Team Monster loses more quickly, yeah. That's the point - they aren't playing to win, they're playing to maximize the losses on the party's side.

To a certain type of bad GM, it's far preferable to have Bob the wizard dead and all the orcs dead in round 1, instead of having the orcs get the whole party down to half health (spending most of their dailies), but still losing the battle in round five.

Targeting the wizard is a tactic that is playing to win instead of just maximize losses, though? They'll probably die en masse, and faster to boot, if there is a wizard wizarding at them, so the wizard is an obvious priority target. If they attack a guy and the cleric heals them, they aren't that dumb, they are going to recognize that pounding on a dude that is being healed is not effective, and try to take out the guy healing them so they actually have a chance to kill someone. Having humanoids ignore this in order to just attack the guy in armor makes you play them like idiots.

Mormon Star Wars
Aug 13, 2005
It's a minotaur race...

PurpleXVI posted:

So, uh, does anyone have any good rules for unfucking the terrible skill/proficiency system so far? I've basically only just cracked open the book and it's the first huge, glaring "oh God no didn't Star Wars Saga Edition teach everyone this was a bad idea"-thing I've spotted. The way they're doing it in 5e, compared to 2e and 3e(I never played 4e, so no clue there), seems to really make characters way more same-ish. Two characters of a given class or race are far more likely to be "proficient" with the exact same skills and to have the exact same bonus with those skills, unless I am completely misunderstanding the rules.

And I'm not really sure what to do about it besides either sucking it up and dealing with the bad system or tearing it out completely and replacing it with something homebrewed.

Also, on "random rolls" and "narrative," I'd argue that if you want a completely predictable experience that can't be changed, you should read a book, watch a movie or play the Cthulhutech premade metaplot adventures. The point of playing an RPG, at least a well-made one, is that the story is fluid and can be influenced by the players, rather than their just being around to add colourful dialogue to the GM's fanfic. If a random roll fucks up your narrative, you should look carefully at the result, is it something clearly unfun for everyone, like all of the PC's burning up in an instant? Then you fudge it. Is it something simply unexpected, like the players managing to stop the Evil Overlord from getting away the first time he shows up to monologue at them and twirl his moustache? Then roll with it, make poo poo up, improvise.

A game where all the players can influence is the "details," how many orcs die or what spell they use to defeat the evil neckbearded wizard in the woods, seems really meaningless to me as a GM, and I hope my players would feel the same way.

Would it mess up 5e too bad to just replace the skill system with 13th Age backgrounds? I've been tempted to just do that for any d20 based system I run.

Mormon Star Wars
Aug 13, 2005
It's a minotaur race...

Bazanga posted:

My question is that they have been talking about what to do next and they seem to really want to do Rise of Tiamat. Has anyone played it? Is it worth running for a group that likes doing off walls situations like the above? I like what they are doing but it seems like it might be a waste of time to start up a module if the players obviously like thinking out of the box so much that suggested paths or storylines from it are going to be completely unrealistic by the time we get there. Any thoughts? How do you run a premade module with a group that likes coming up with clever ways to circumvent the narration or completely subvert it? Anyone have a similar group with some suggestions on how to set up a campaign that they would enjoy? I was thinking of some sort of jailbreak or large scale heist sandbox to come up with that they might like.

If you know the ways that they like to subvert the narratives - if you know how they like to play their characters - it can be fairly easy to set up situations the way you want them by changing the starting conditions. Like, in the case of your players (I don't know anything about Rise of Tiamat), if they get a thrill out of double-crossing the people that hired them, you could start a module with them hired by the antagonists and give them plenty of opportunities to set up a double cross, which could involve meeting the original NPC's they'd encounter if they had gone in the default way.

Edit: A lot of it is going to depend on the specific module. Starting out by looking at the transitions and coming up with a few different scenarios based on what your players might do will help a lot.

Mormon Star Wars
Aug 13, 2005
It's a minotaur race...

djw175 posted:

Mask of the Betrayer takes place partially in Thay (The rest of it takes place in the Rashemen and the Astral Plane) and is basically the greatest thing to come out of Forgotten Realms so yeah, it seems like getting away from the Sword Coast really does make things better.

Every single place in Faerun is more interesting than the Sword Coast. Even countries that are straight up "earth people live here" are more interesting than the Sword Coast.

Mormon Star Wars
Aug 13, 2005
It's a minotaur race...

Lightning Lord posted:

This thread is to contain flame wars about how playing Next makes you a bad person. The advice thread that you shat up is so that newbies who want actual advice on how to go about playing Next can get their problems sorted out. The general chat thread is for TG general chat. None of those threads involves talking about reptile genitals.

What about the FR thread, where it is entirely on topic

Mormon Star Wars
Aug 13, 2005
It's a minotaur race...

The thing that gets me is that "GMing is hard work" is mostly hard because, as a GM, you have to fight the systems in a lot of editions of D&D to get it to do what you want. It's a lot easier to DM 13th Age because you aren't having to fight it every step of the way.

Mormon Star Wars
Aug 13, 2005
It's a minotaur race...

Does no one just put multiple clues in their mystery games? It seems like you are asking for trouble either way if there is only one clue instead of a bunch.

Mormon Star Wars
Aug 13, 2005
It's a minotaur race...

FRINGE posted:

All this Drow talk is making me want to go find the Jarlaxle books. I never read those. I need something pulpy and entertaining.

As someone who inflicts FR books on himself, the Jarlaxle books are definitely pulpy and entertaining and not The House of Vipers, so go for it.

The running gag of Jarlaxle pretending to be The Noble And Good Drow Seeking Redemption, Drizzt whenever he goes into a town because he is probably the only named dark elf people have heard of is pretty great.

Mormon Star Wars
Aug 13, 2005
It's a minotaur race...

I don't understand why all these people playing dungeons and dragons are trying to go into dungeons and fight dragons instead of running away at the first sign of trouble.

What a mystery!

Mormon Star Wars
Aug 13, 2005
It's a minotaur race...

ProfessorCirno posted:

This basic argument comes down to "The GM should be on the same page as the players and give the sort of game the players want" vs "gently caress you I'm the GM, if they won't do what I wanted them to do I'll punish them all."

Actually, no it doesn't. The basic argument is "The GM should have killed the rest of the party for having an adventure while I opted out of having one":

Spectral Werewolf posted:

I've actually been whining to my DM that more characters in our group should be dying. I don't know what part of the description of an ancient red dragon burning down the city was supposed to indicate that our level 4 party should charge in and fight it, but one guy should have been swallowed whole and the rest burnt to a crisp. Of course I'm upset with that situation because I was, appropriately, long gone at the earliest glimpse of a red dragon.

Mormon Star Wars
Aug 13, 2005
It's a minotaur race...

Spectral Werewolf posted:

Except my character is not a schlub NPC. Everyone made their history and INT checks to know what an ancient dragon was and the kind of destruction they can bring. We weren't looking for a plot hook as we just received info on a much larger conspiracy, we needed to get out alive with the information we had just learned. So because of that, the DM pulled his punches and didn't toast them as they stood neatly in front of the dragon. I don't see what's petty about wanting to see a gigantic monster do what it's known for doing, especially when everyone knows what it's supposed to do.

It's petty because you want other players punished for having fun, when you chose not to join them in having that fun.

Mormon Star Wars
Aug 13, 2005
It's a minotaur race...

Like, it's one thing to go "I think what I want out of this game and what other players want out of this game are different things." That's cool. Everyone can talk about it and get things straightened out. It's another thing to go "The rest of the group wants to play heroes, and I don't, so I am going to whine about how the DM should kill their characters off until they start playing the game like I want them to!"

Mormon Star Wars
Aug 13, 2005
It's a minotaur race...

fool_of_sound posted:

No, I don't really see the difference when the game comes out and says "What the DM says, goes." In my experience, rear end in a top hat DM don't want or need the game's permission to stop players from doing things that they don't want; it's a reflexive response to losing narrative control that many DMs have to learn to overcome. Think of how kids play imagination fights ('blocks everything shield', ect).

It's not just rear end in a top hat GMs, having that kind of summoning behavior as a guideline confuses inexperienced DMs and teaches them bad habits. Let's say you are a brand new GM and you see this summoning spell with that type of guideline. There's no section of GM advice on how to handle these summoning spells, so you are left with these questions:

- Do I let the person summon the monster they want? (No guidelines to help with this decision.)
- When it says 1 creature of level 2 or less, when should I give my player 1 creature of less than level 2? (No guidelines to help with this decision.)
- What creature of level 2 or less is fair to summon? ("Level 2" should indicate how fair it is to summon a thing, but hahaha D&D and "CR" - this might actually be the more confusing part.)

You don't have to be a bad DM to make decisions frustrating to both you and your players because abilities are needlessly vague and without any indication of what to do with them.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Mormon Star Wars
Aug 13, 2005
It's a minotaur race...

I just finished an FR novel that came out last year and Erin Evans is hilarious for the ways she straight pokes fun at edition changes. At one point a character has to look up a symbol from the Supernal language, then realizes that it's really weird that everyone just accepts that Supernal is the language of divine beings since it was virtually unknown two years ago. Could reality itself have changed?!

edit: Coincidentally the story was set in Cormyr, and I can tell you without hesitation that the purpose of Purple Dragon Knights is to get punked by Shades.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply