US Politics July - Boner Sues the Hussein Clown Posse

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > US Politics July - Boner Sues the Hussein Clown Posse

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ufarn: May 30, 2009

zoux posted:

Can you imagine what the GOP would've done if 9/11 happened during Obama's term? Everyone basically gave the Bush administration a complete pass for 9/11. I'm not saying that we should go after Bush for 9/11, but if he ain't culpable then Obama sure as poo poo ain't culpable for Benghazi.

lolwut

"Why the 'Death Panel' Myth Wouldn't Die: Misinformation in the Health Care Reform Debate"

# ? Aug 5, 2014 19:11

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# ? May 2, 2024 18:05

Stultus Maximus: Dec 21, 2009; USPOL May

Fried Chicken posted:

So now you've had to jump from "the CIA knew nothing!" To "the CIA didn't do enough!" Which, as I pointed out earlier, would entail them doing things without sanction, exactly the behavior you are decrying.

gently caress off which this whitewashing if Bush to try and grab the tragedy to blame the CIA for. Their record is dirty enough that you don't need to bullshit.

I'm sure you can produce the post where I said that the CIA knew nothing. It's probably right next to the part in the IG and 9/11 Commission report which said "oh, and all those CIA failures we just listed are totally excusable because Bush made them do it."

Really, for your periodic "hypocrite liberals, amirite" post you could have picked a better target.

# ? Aug 5, 2014 19:19

Evil Fluffy: Jul 13, 2009; Scholars are some of the most pompous and pedantic people I've ever had the joy of meeting.

Doctor Butts posted:

You may have read/ignored the story I posted about the Democratic candidate for the Governor of Ohio, Ed FitzGerald, was parked in a dark area at 4:30 A.M. in 2012 with a woman who was not his wife.

The police officer who talked to them found no wrongdoing at the time (no banging).

Today it was revealed:
1. FitzGerald did not have a full driver's license at the time (He was about 44 years old)
2. He has not had a full driver's license in Ohio since 2002.
3. He was on his third learner's permit.

This is, you know, after FitzGerald's first running mate stepped down because he had almost a million dollars in unpaid taxes and penalties.

Also after all of the really silly publicity stuff like FitzGerald asking for a 'Win Tax' instead of Cuyahoga County's Sin Tax renewal.

Also after him saying all records of public workers be public, except his building access log.

It's amazing how hard the Democrats actively work to ensure they lose elections.

# ? Aug 5, 2014 19:23

Fried Chicken: Jan 9, 2011; Don't fry me, I'm no chicken!

Stultus Maximus posted:

I'm sure you can produce the post where I said that the CIA knew nothing. It's probably right next to the part in the IG and 9/11 Commission report which said "oh, and all those CIA failures we just listed are totally excusable because Bush made them do it."

Really, for your periodic "hypocrite liberals, amirite" post you could have picked a better target.

Stultus Maximus posted:

Or, like, terrorists flying planes into skyscrapers. I bet the CIA would find out about that sort of thing and stop it.

Now I wait for the pedantic defense of "well just because I was saying the CIA should have found out about the plot didn't mean I was saying they didn't know of the plot." :smuggo:

# ? Aug 5, 2014 19:42

Stultus Maximus: Dec 21, 2009; USPOL May

Fried Chicken posted:

Now I wait for the pedantic defense of "well just because I was saying the CIA should have found out about the plot didn't mean I was saying they didn't know of the plot."

I posted a pretty detailed description of the CIA's failures regarding this a ways back, maybe you missed it.

It's pretty funny that you're accusing me of whitewashing Bush when you're excusing the CIA in the face of multiple reports detailing their contribution to the 9/11 failure. Maybe you're a little too obsessed with your pet target?

# ? Aug 5, 2014 19:53

Brannock: Feb 9, 2006; by exmarx; Fallen Rib

Sephiroth_IRA posted:

So... he didn't bang the girl?

"You can be corrupt. You can lie, cheat and steal. The one thing you cannot do, the one thing you absolutely cannot do is gently caress the interns."

I can't find the full quote but it went something like that.

"You broke the only rule in politics. You wanna be president? You can lie, you can cheat, you can start a war, you can bankrupt the country, but you can't gently caress the interns. They get you for that."

From The Ides of March.

# ? Aug 5, 2014 19:57

Fried Chicken: Jan 9, 2011; Don't fry me, I'm no chicken!

Stultus Maximus posted:

I posted a pretty detailed description of the CIA's failures regarding this a ways back, maybe you missed it.

1) I can't help but note you ignore the point that yeah, you did stake it out that they got blindsided

2) their failure was in not doing more follow up, which for the 3rd time would entail them blowing off the president to do what they wanted instead. That's the kind of poo poo you are exactly railing against when you talk about their legacy

I wonder how it goes when the CIA ignores the president to run their own operations. Let's ask Iran!

quote:

It's pretty funny that you're accusing me of whitewashing Bush when you're excusing the CIA in the face of multiple reports detailing their contribution to the 9/11 failure. Maybe you're a little too obsessed with your pet target?

"Hrm, maybe it's YOU who are claiming the opposite if reality. Now let me tell you about how the CIA warning memo didn't exist/doesn't count because it is from their records/isn't enough because they didn't follow up"

gently caress off.

# ? Aug 5, 2014 20:07

Obdicut: May 15, 2012; "What election?"

Maybe there could be a thread about the CIA, or about George Bush.

# ? Aug 5, 2014 20:10

Stultus Maximus: Dec 21, 2009; USPOL May

Fried Chicken posted:

1) I can't help but note you ignore the point that yeah, you did stake it out that they got blindsided

2) their failure was in not doing more follow up, which for the 3rd time would entail them blowing off the president to do what they wanted instead. That's the kind of poo poo you are exactly railing against when you talk about their legacy

I wonder how it goes when the CIA ignores the president to run their own operations. Let's ask Iran!

Are you sure that their failure was due to not blowing off the president? I'd think the IG or 9/11 commission reports would have pointed that out. Are you sure that this didn't maybe come out of your rear end because you have some weird need to put 100% of the blame at Bush's feet rather than accept the reports which describe the ways that both the CIA and the Bush administration failed?

quote:

"Hrm, maybe it's YOU who are claiming the opposite if reality. Now let me tell you about how the CIA warning memo didn't exist/doesn't count because it is from their records/isn't enough because they didn't follow up"

gently caress off.

I seem to have touched a nerve.

# ? Aug 5, 2014 20:14

TheGreyGhost: Feb 14, 2012; �Go win the Heimlich Trophy!�

Doctor Butts posted:

You may have read/ignored the story I posted about the Democratic candidate for the Governor of Ohio, Ed FitzGerald, was parked in a dark area at 4:30 A.M. in 2012 with a woman who was not his wife.

The police officer who talked to them found no wrongdoing at the time (no banging).

Today it was revealed:
1. FitzGerald did not have a full driver's license at the time (He was about 44 years old)
2. He has not had a full driver's license in Ohio since 2002.
3. He was on his third learner's permit.

This is, you know, after FitzGerald's first running mate stepped down because he had almost a million dollars in unpaid taxes and penalties.

Also after all of the really silly publicity stuff like FitzGerald asking for a 'Win Tax' instead of Cuyahoga County's Sin Tax renewal.

Also after him saying all records of public workers be public, except his building access log.

The best part of this is going to be how he somehow explains the driver's license part when it comes up. That's not going to make our auto people happy, much less it's going to give the wrong impression "I don't need to drive myself" to a lot of the state. The rural/far suburban morons who whine about "you don't know what our lives are really like!" when we say don't buy lovely oversized cars you don't need just got handed a talking point about Fitzy being out of touch.

And that's ignoring the fact that he's quickly drawing comparisons to the last guy to occupy his office (the immortal Jimmy Dimora) since he's somehow lowered transparency despite running on it, who might actually have been the most corrupt politician in Ohio history over Jim Traficant.

Literally, here are his accomplishments:
- Shrank the overall county government by kicking out or removing all of the old Dimora's old buddies and either eliminating the positions or putting in his cronies. Good, until you remember that we have a serious lack of infrastructure in the county to begin with and those positions didn't need destroyed so much as reigned in
- Put oversight by the Inspector General on every position except for his own
- Put together the nation's largest college savings program (admittedly not bad)
- Made enemies of the sports teams with the "win tax" bullshit which is a bad idea when you're trying to appeal to a city that holds up a crooked casino owner's team and the Cleveland Browns as its idols. (Despite the fact I like that it might make the Indians spend money on decent baseball players for once)
- Repurposed the economic development fund to be more business friendly and less government service oriented, giving us the Rick Perry method of "if you bribe them, they will come".
- Established a county sheriff's office that has basically scratched its head at 90% of its job since Cleveland police are overwhelmed, but the burbs are fine.
- Set up a bunch of sharing agreements that are really really bad for our utilities moving forward.

He's the worst kind of Clinton-esque blue dog, and he's reaching McAuliffe levels of bad without that level of national clout to help back him.

Jesus I don't know how, but my state's democrats are actually going to lose to a guy who might as well be Lord Business from the Lego movie without charisma.

# ? Aug 5, 2014 20:20

Fried Chicken: Jan 9, 2011; Don't fry me, I'm no chicken!

Stultus Maximus posted:

Are you sure that their failure was due to not blowing off the president? I'd think the IG or 9/11 commission reports would have pointed that out. Are you sure that this didn't maybe come out of your rear end because you have some weird need to put 100% of the blame at Bush's feet rather than accept the reports which describe the ways that both the CIA and the Bush administration failed?

So you aren't even putting up the pretense of doing anything more than trolling at this point, are you?

quote:

I seem to have touched a nerve.

Ah, and now we've gotten to "dance puppets dance!"

You made an idiotic statement where you tried to cash in on an emotional moment rather than invest the effort to make a case against the CIA. A case which, to the extent anyone would disagree, it would probably be because the list of their crimes wasn't complete. But instead of talking Central America, Poland, Gladio, Iran, the Philippines, or anything else from their ocean of blood you tried to cash in on 9/11, where the CIA's warning was discussed in this thread literally yesterday, and when it was pointed out that you screwed the pooch, rather than be an adult and say "yeah, my bad, what I should have said was..." We get a multi page poo poo heap of pedantic whining, moving the goalposts, and general idiocy so you can try and salvage some scrap of internet posting pride.

Jesus, grow the gently caress up.

# ? Aug 5, 2014 20:28

Pirate Radar: Apr 18, 2008; You're not my Ruthie!
You're not my Debbie!
You're not my Sherry!

What, at this point, is the actual disagreement here?

# ? Aug 5, 2014 20:43

Magres: Jul 14, 2011

New thread time? New thread time.

# ? Aug 5, 2014 20:45

WhiskeyJuvenile: Feb 15, 2002; by Nyc_Tattoo

It's August 5th and I'm posting in the July thread. July USPOL thread: least productive thread ever. I fondly remember the January USPOL thread. Now there was a thread that could get posts done.

# ? Aug 5, 2014 20:56

ufarn: May 30, 2009

I think the real question here is: When will the moderators lead?

# ? Aug 5, 2014 21:01

Fuck You And Diebold: Sep 15, 2004; by Athanatos

ufarn posted:

I think the real question here is: When will the moderators lead?

The mods help those who help themselves.

# ? Aug 5, 2014 21:05

euphronius: Feb 18, 2009

In my reality, this is the August thread.

# ? Aug 5, 2014 21:06

GROVER CURES HOUSE: Aug 26, 2007; Go on...

ufarn posted:

I think the real question here is: When will the moderators lead?

This is where the No Mods No Fragmasters doctrine leads you, heretics. :argh:

# ? Aug 5, 2014 21:07

Sephiroth_IRA: Mar 31, 2010

Wow the Rand Paul video hit my google news feed. Those tricky immigrants :argh:

# ? Aug 5, 2014 21:09

Alec Bald Snatch: Sep 12, 2012; by exmarx

Freedom Fries Jones reaches for the forbidden fruit:

quote:

Republican Rep. Walter Jones thinks Speaker John Boehner�s lawsuit is a waste of taxpayer money � he says the impeachment of President Obama would be a better option.

�I am one that believes sincerely that the Constitution says that when a president, be it a Republican or a Democrat exceeds his authority and you can�t stop the president from exceeding his authority, then we do have what�s called impeachment,� Jones said on the Talk of the Town radio program Monday. �Thank Alexander Hamilton. He felt that the Congress need to use this process to get the attention of a president. And if the president had lost the public trust then move forward in that area. We recently had a vote to go to federal courts. I did not vote for that. I was one of five.�

Jones was indeed one five members of the Republican-controlled House who voted against a resolution last week authorizing Boehner to sue Obama; the suit will claim Obama abused his powers by bypassing
Congress in delaying the employer mandate in the Affordable Care Act.

The resolution, which passed 225-201, was also opposed by Republican Reps. Paul Broun, Scott Garrett, Thomas Massie, and Steve Stockman.

�My problem with what my party is trying to do to sue is it will cost the taxpayers between two and three million dollars,� Jones concluded. �Use the Constitution, that�s what it is there for.�

# ? Aug 5, 2014 21:10

Slickdrac: Oct 5, 2007; Not allowed to have nice things

WhiskeyJuvenile posted:

It's July 36th and I'm posting in the July thread. July USPOL thread: least productive thread ever. I fondly remember the January USPOL thread. Now there was a thread that could get posts done.

The chair does not recognize the motion for a new month, We will continue adding days until the motion passes.

# ? Aug 5, 2014 21:11

Stultus Maximus: Dec 21, 2009; USPOL May

Fried Chicken posted:

So you aren't even putting up the pretense of doing anything more than trolling at this point, are you?

Ah, and now we've gotten to "dance puppets dance!"

You've provided no evidence that the CIA's failures were all due to following Bush's orders to the letter. I've provided evidence that the CIA had numerous failures pre-9/11. I don't think I'm the one trolling.

quote:

You made an idiotic statement where you tried to cash in on an emotional moment rather than invest the effort to make a case against the CIA. A case which, to the extent anyone would disagree, it would probably be because the list of their crimes wasn't complete. But instead of talking Central America, Poland, Gladio, Iran, the Philippines, or anything else from their ocean of blood you tried to cash in on 9/11, where the CIA's warning was discussed in this thread literally yesterday, and when it was pointed out that you screwed the pooch, rather than be an adult and say "yeah, my bad, what I should have said was..." We get a multi page poo poo heap of pedantic whining, moving the goalposts, and general idiocy so you can try and salvage some scrap of internet posting pride.

Jesus, grow the gently caress up.

Okay, you're just retarded.

Stultus Maximus posted:

When your "fuckups" include overthrowing the government of Iran and installing a puppet leading to the rise of Islamists, overthrowing the government of Guatemala and installing a brutal military dictatorship leading to a 30 year civil war, overthrowing the government of Brazil and installing a military dictatorship, overthrowing the government of Chile and installing a military dictatorship, attempting but failing to use brutal death squads to overthrow the government in Nicaragua, failing to anticipate the Iranian revolution against their own puppet, failing to anticipate the collapse of the Soviet Union despite the USSR being essentially the reason the CIA exists, torturing prisoners, performing covert experimentation on US citizens, and trafficking cocaine no amount of "well you just don't know about the good stuff" can compensate. The CIA is a fundamentally corrupt and dangerous organization and should be dissolved.

# ? Aug 5, 2014 21:12

Chard: Aug 24, 2010

This is our own fault. This is our doing, our sloth, for not bootstrapping a new thread. This is what comes from depending on handouts.

# ? Aug 5, 2014 21:15

Monkey Fracas: Sep 11, 2010; ...but then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you!; Grimey Drawer

comes along bort posted:

Freedom Fries Jones reaches for the forbidden fruit:

Looks like placating the Tea Party with a paltry "lawsuit" wasn't enough.

Oh and also Obama is trying to get impeached, yep. That tricky bastard.

# ? Aug 5, 2014 21:16

computer parts: Nov 18, 2010; PLEASE CLAP

comes along bort posted:

Freedom Fries Jones reaches for the forbidden fruit:

He's absolutely correct though.

# ? Aug 5, 2014 21:16

sit on my Facebook: Jun 20, 2007; ASS GAS OR GRASS
No One Rides for FREE
In the Trumplord Holy Land

Stultus Maximus posted:

You've provided no evidence that the CIA's failures were all due to following Bush's orders to the letter. I've provided evidence that the CIA had numerous failures pre-9/11. I don't think I'm the one trolling.

I'm confused by what your contention here is. What do YOU think the CIA's failures in the context of 9/11 were, exactly?

# ? Aug 5, 2014 21:20

Spaghett: May 2, 2007; Spooked ya...

computer parts posted:

He's absolutely correct though.

Listening to David Pakman today, he pointed out that all of the people who want to cut government spending are advocating for a 100% waste of taxpayer money while getting an extended vacation to do it. Irony is dead.

# ? Aug 5, 2014 21:22

Stultus Maximus: Dec 21, 2009; USPOL May

stinkles1112 posted:

I'm confused by what your contention here is. What do YOU think the CIA's failures in the context of 9/11 were, exactly?

The article which I posted earlier outlines most of it: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/22/washington/22cia.html?pagewanted=all

# ? Aug 5, 2014 21:23

Monkey Fracas: Sep 11, 2010; ...but then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you!; Grimey Drawer

Anorexic Sea Turtle posted:

Listening to David Pakman today, he pointed out that all of the people who want to cut government spending are advocating for a 100% waste of taxpayer money while getting an extended vacation to do it. Irony is dead.

Hopefully the ranks of the GOP legislators are stuffed with enough true DEBT believers that a few of them cry foul on it, unlikely as that seems.

# ? Aug 5, 2014 21:26

Pirate Radar: Apr 18, 2008; You're not my Ruthie!
You're not my Debbie!
You're not my Sherry!

Stultus Maximus posted:

You've provided no evidence that the CIA's failures were all due to following Bush's orders to the letter.

I don't think I've seen him claim this.

# ? Aug 5, 2014 21:26

Stultus Maximus: Dec 21, 2009; USPOL May

Chantilly Say posted:

I don't think I've seen him claim this.

Right here:

quote:

2) their failure was in not doing more follow up, which for the 3rd time would entail them blowing off the president to do what they wanted instead.

e: and here

quote:

Except they did have indications of an imminent attack, briefed the president on it, and Bush didn't give a poo poo. What were they supposed to do, take unilateral actions to run down leads and halt it anyways?

and here

quote:

there is direct loving proof that it was the administration that dropped the ball and not them.

and if you want a brief summary of the disagreement, I have been stating that the IG and 9/11 Commission found that the CIA did not effectively gather and analyze intelligence regarding Al Qaeda due to structural and institutional deficiencies at the agency, whereas Fried Chicken's position is that Bush is entirely responsible:

quote:

No matter how much you want to pretend otherwise, 9/11 is on his shoulders, and no one else.

Stultus Maximus fucked around with this message at 21:30 on Aug 5, 2014

# ? Aug 5, 2014 21:28

Spaghett: May 2, 2007; Spooked ya...

Monkey Fracas posted:

Hopefully the ranks of the GOP legislators are stuffed with enough true DEBT believers that a few of them cry foul on it, unlikely as that seems.

Things that deserve funding:
Killing
Impeachment
Prostitutes

Things that need defunding:
Help
People
Brown people (an exception will be made for killing)

# ? Aug 5, 2014 21:31

sit on my Facebook: Jun 20, 2007; ASS GAS OR GRASS
No One Rides for FREE
In the Trumplord Holy Land

So after reading that article it seems like the CIA's primary mistake was a lack of interdepartmental communication with the FBI, specifically getting the two hijackers mentioned by name on to the terrorist watch list. So that seems like a gently caress up, but wasn't lack of interdepartmental communication an explicit policy goal between FBI/CIA/NSA etc, at least until very recently?

# ? Aug 5, 2014 21:31

Sephiroth_IRA: Mar 31, 2010

Guys can't we all just agree 9/11 was an inside job and move on?

# ? Aug 5, 2014 21:39

Stultus Maximus: Dec 21, 2009; USPOL May

Sephiroth_IRA posted:

Guys can't we all just agree 9/11 was an inside job and move on?

There was thermite found in the wreckage according to the Open Chemical Physics Journal and if you can't trust them who can you trust?

# ? Aug 5, 2014 21:46

hangedman1984: Jul 25, 2012

Sephiroth_IRA posted:

Guys can't we all just agree 9/11 was an inside job and move on?

It was Jimmy Carter

# ? Aug 5, 2014 22:13

Fried Chicken: Jan 9, 2011; Don't fry me, I'm no chicken!

Chantilly Say posted:

I don't think I've seen him claim this.

Because I haven't. My point has been that Bush had the option to address it and didn't, not that he countermanded any investigation.

Stultus Maximus posted:

Right here:

e: and here

and here

where I kept saying the failure was to follow up. They didn't follow up because
1) Bush & co had them already eyeing Iraq

2) by policy and mandate interdepartmental coordination was tamped down.

Bush could have taken the warnings from the Clinton administration seriously. He could have taken the immediate warning seriously and told them to coordinate and follow up. He chose to disregard it. Pretending that he was never warned, that the CIA didn't see this coming completely absolves him of his responsibility.

quote:

and if you want a brief summary of the disagreement, I have been stating that the IG and 9/11 Commission found that the CIA did not effectively gather and analyze intelligence regarding Al Qaeda due to structural and institutional deficiencies at the agency, whereas Fried Chicken's position is that Bush is entirely responsible:

And you are a lying, again. This started with you talking about how the CIA didn't see it coming. Which was false. Then you tried to frame it as "only evidence CIA saw anything came from the CIA after the fact. ". Which is intellectually dishonest. You didn't even accept the IG report until you got beat down on first denying the memo and then trying to write it off as not counting.

You said something stupid, something that was corrected yesterday. And now we get you dancing between naked trolling and pedantic bullshit all because you don't want to say "wow I hosed up when I said

Stultus Maximus posted:

Or, like, terrorists flying planes into skyscrapers. I bet the CIA would find out about that sort of thing and stop it.

, my mistake"

# ? Aug 5, 2014 22:35

Fried Chicken: Jan 9, 2011; Don't fry me, I'm no chicken!

stinkles1112 posted:

So after reading that article it seems like the CIA's primary mistake was a lack of interdepartmental communication with the FBI, specifically getting the two hijackers mentioned by name on to the terrorist watch list. So that seems like a gently caress up, but wasn't lack of interdepartmental communication an explicit policy goal between FBI/CIA/NSA etc, at least until very recently?

Yes, the changes to the intelligence community to correct that all came post 9/11. Prior to that policy and countervailing mandates resulted in low communication.

# ? Aug 5, 2014 22:36

Justin Godscock: Oct 12, 2004; Listen here, funnyman!

hangedman1984 posted:

It was Jimmy Carter

Nah, you're giving Carter too much credit.

# ? Aug 5, 2014 22:43

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# ? May 2, 2024 18:05

Chard: Aug 24, 2010

impeach fried chicken

# ? Aug 5, 2014 22:46

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > US Politics July - Boner Sues the Hussein Clown Posse

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