July Contest: 4th Of The Edition

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > July Contest: 4th Of The Edition

Dog Kisser: Mar 30, 2005; But People have fears that beasts do not. Questions, too.

Oh my goodness, I actually have something for this! I will confess I started this beforehand, but this will give me an excuse to pull it all together into an actual playable state.

Game Concept
I actually drafted this up for a CYOA here on the forums that I am waffling about running - I love the story-heavy CYOAs where people get to control the player's actions, but wished that there was a way for more people to have a chance to play at once. I also really love Turn-Based Tactics games (Final Fantasy Tactics, Tactics Ogre, etc) and how you get to control an army of dudes. So I wondered, can I mash them up?

What I ended up with was a game where a small group of posters (10 or so) would each control 1-3 characters from a small number of classes who each have a small number of choices to make per turn(to reduce analysis paralysis) but who can end up looking pretty different depending on skill choices and stuff. Other people following the thread who didn't want to make a character/missed the cut off date could play as spirits that could effect the outcome by buffing/debuffing the characters on either team (for instance, giving one player +1 to hit while reducing their ally's defense by the same amount).

It can ALSO be played on tabletop - either as straight war games or with a DM guiding the opposing army. In that case, you can either play without spirits or just get friends/dead players/bored significant others to play those roles.

Character Concept
My issue with 4E is you have so many options on each turn that it takes forever, so I've cut it down to a bare minimum of options.

code:

Club	Deals 1d6 Damage	
Sling	Deals 1d4 Damage / base range 5					
Grab	Deals 2 damage and target is grabbed
Pulse	Deals 1 damage and -2 Penalty to hit / base range 5

Every character starts out as a Recruit, but you'll hit a point where you choose between 4 classes, each keyed to one of those abilities - the aligned ability gets a slight boost in power or function, but you still get to use all of them.

code:

Club > Smash		Deals 1d6 + 3 Damage and push target 1	
Sling > Accurate Sling	Deals 1d4 Damage / base range 10 / +1 to hit within 5					
Grab > Wrenching Grab	Deals 6 damage and target is grabbed / slide grabbed target to adjacent square
Pulse > Shockwave	Deals 4 damage and -2 Penalty to hit / burst 1 / base range 5

So once you specialize in a class, the aligned ability switches to one of the above, but the others stay as they were.

As your characters progress, each of those abilities can gain different variations depending on class (Club Deals 1d6 Damage + slows target by 2, for instance), but you'll always have only the 4 abilities to choose from. The idea is that you'll always know exactly what move you'll be making.

Character Creation

Pictured: 2 of the classes (Reaver and Taker respectively) iterating through the different levels of experience. Each character has 6 levels from Unblooded to Master, each has a different sprite (for male and female, of course) and unlocks different tweaks to your abilities.

I've done up a pretty thorough Excel Character Sheet(need to have Office 2007 or higher, I think?) that lets you create three characters. It's all completely automated - the only stuff you'll need to fill in is your Player Name, your Character Name (Which also generates a little backstory for them), your Class (drop down menu) and your XP (400 is the XP cap, so play around with that). Also, the little red arrows are comments, so hover over them to get details.

Items and Weapons are also drop down menus, and they'll cause your attack names to change when you change em'. Neat, eh?

Also at the bottom are emblems - achievements gained through battle that give bonuses (like Tactics Ogre).

Rules
Pretty basic 4e rules, with some tweaks. The full ruleset (so far, pending changes) can be found here, which also gives a sort of turn-by-turn play instruction.

World Building
I'm also drawing up some building/terrain tiles and sprites for each character class/level/sex combo, a little taste of which is here.

As I said, I obviously started this beforehand so I'm probably excluded from proper entry, but I'd still like to see what people think of it. The Excel file linked earlier is really, really thorough and automatic - it'll pretty much walk you through character creation, and it'll do it way better than I did.

# ¿ Jul 22, 2014 23:42

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# ¿ May 16, 2024 15:41

Dog Kisser: Mar 30, 2005; But People have fears that beasts do not. Questions, too.

Speleothing posted:

I thought for a minute I was in the recruitment thread and got really excited.

Well I still plan to do the CYOA ~one day~ so I guess keep your eyes open!

# ¿ Jul 23, 2014 03:59

Dog Kisser: Mar 30, 2005; But People have fears that beasts do not. Questions, too.

Nancy_Noxious posted:

Apparently only female sprites have midriff-exposing outfits.

Why do game sprites always need to conform to its creator's blatant lack of fashion sense and stupid, retrograde ideas regarding gender and clothing?

"It's a world of fantasy where anything* can happen!"
*Only for values of anything that are aligned with heterosexist patriarchy

Ah, there's actually reasons for that! In all other classes, both male and female are wearing appropriate armor (insofar as I can convey that through sprites!), but Reavers (the female sprite of which is up in my other post) of both genders wear increasingly revealing clothing as they increase in level. Male Reavers are literally wearing a loincloth and headbands.

The fluff reasoning is that Reavers will literally get stronger and more resilient by being braver and wearing less armor. The actual reason is that it makes the sprites 'pop' and further differentiates them from the other classes.

Believe me, growing up playing tactics games nothing bugged me more than guy unita in full armor and girls in bikinis.

Edit: also now that I think about the other sprite is ALSO female and is wearing way more clothes as she levels.

Dog Kisser fucked around with this message at 13:58 on Jul 23, 2014

# ¿ Jul 23, 2014 13:53

Dog Kisser: Mar 30, 2005; But People have fears that beasts do not. Questions, too.

Alright, got some class writeups and sprites (male on left, female on right) done for every class/gender, as well as some other fluff glossary stuff.

Manitou - Spirits that congregate around battlefields and the dead. Most are too weak to influence anything more than a stirring of dry leaves or ghostly whistling, but some rare few can affect the material world in a more tangible sense. Mostly take on the appearance of flowing, smoky clouds, but often display animal or humanoid features. Attracted to the life energy of great heroes.

Blooded - Many men and women ply their trade at soldiery, but sooner or later they either lose their lives in combat or prove themselves worthy of becoming Blooded. A Blooded individual has attracted the attention of the Manitou, drawing dozens of minor spirits to their being. The spirits enter the individual, granting them improved combat prowess and resilience, and whispering both guidance and nonsense into their ears always.

Taker - A Blooded individual that desires improved precision will take the path of the Taker. The Manitou possessing their form will enhance their senses, allowing them to detect vital weaknesses in their foes from great distances. As a Taker gains mastery and more Manitou are drawn towards them, their senses become supernatural, forcing them to don a mask to dull their visions - but allowing them unparalleled accuracy.

Sling becomes Accurate Sling - Deals 1d4 Damage / base range 10 / +1 to hit within 5
+2 to Ranged Attack, and +5 to HP

Rupter - A Blooded individual that desires the ability to confuse and befuddle groups of foes will take the path of the Rupter. The Manitou possessing their form grant them great mental powers, allowing them to wreak havoc on their opposition. As a Rupter gains mastery and more Manitou are drawn towards them, their power and capabilities grow - as do the voices in their heads.

Pulse becomes Shockwave - Deals 4 damage and -2 Penalty to hit / burst 1 / base range 5
+2 to Ranged Attack, and +2 to Defense

Reaver - A Blooded individual that desires the ability to charge headlong into their enemies will take the path of the Reaver. The Manitou possessing their form thrive on acts of bravery, empowering the Reaver with great strength and toughness. As a Reaver gains mastery and more Manitou are drawn towards them, the spirits' desire for ever greater acts of bravery leads them to strip away their armour - a danger largely offset by skin and muscles grown hard as marble.

Club becomes Club Smash - Deals 1d6 + 3 Damage and push target 1
+2 to Melee Attack, and +5 to HP

Locker - A Blooded individual that desires the ability to hold their foes in place and deal heavy damage will take the path of the Locker. The Manitou possessing their form grant them a powerful grip and an unshakable stance, allowing them to lock down even the toughest foes. As a Locker gains mastery and more Manitou are drawn towards them, the Locker gains the solidity of a mountain and the inescapable grip of a vice - as the solemn voices of the Manitou guide their actions.

Grab becomes Wrenching Grab - Deals 6 damage and target is grabbed / slide grabbed target to adjacent square
+2 to Melee Attack, and +2 to Defense

I'll probably be submitting as a zip file or something in a Dropbox link - is that ok?

edit: And here's the rules and stuff as I add stuff to it : Land of the Manitou Documents

Dog Kisser fucked around with this message at 03:00 on Jul 27, 2014

# ¿ Jul 26, 2014 23:07

Dog Kisser: Mar 30, 2005; But People have fears that beasts do not. Questions, too.

Just out of curiosity, WHEN on the 31st is it 'pencils down' time? I wouldn't be embarrassed to hand it in as is, but having an idea of the end time will help me squeeze in the last few changes.

Dog Kisser fucked around with this message at 05:36 on Jul 31, 2014

# ¿ Jul 31, 2014 03:13

Dog Kisser: Mar 30, 2005; But People have fears that beasts do not. Questions, too.

Error 404 posted:

Sure.

Edit: ok, got that redone. I hope it's a bit easier on the eyes now.

Steakpunk is my favorite entry so far.

Including mine!

# ¿ Jul 31, 2014 14:24

Dog Kisser: Mar 30, 2005; But People have fears that beasts do not. Questions, too.

Alright, Land of the Manitou is officially entered!

At its core it's a stripped-down, squad/army based version of 4e with some unique mechanics - think some kinda mashup between 4e/X-Com/Final Fantasy Tactics. I also included sprites for each class, monsters, some sample maps, as well as tiles and objects to make your own map.

Character creation is laid out in the document but I HIGHLY suggest you use the Excel spreadsheet I included in the Dropbox folder as it automates basically the whole process for you.

Writeup is on Google Docs here
The Dropbox folder with all the goodies is here

I'm anxious to see what people think of this, and this whole thing has been super fun!

edit: Also Steakpunk is goddamn excellent, for the record.

# ¿ Jul 31, 2014 23:22

Dog Kisser: Mar 30, 2005; But People have fears that beasts do not. Questions, too.

Hey, thanks for going through my effort! I hope to do the same with the rest of these later tonight. I'll address some of your comments:

Error 404 posted:

Land of the Manitou
Right off, I get the feeling that this would be better suited as a video game. I don't mean this in a bad way at all, even your sprites and artwork evoke that kind of old-style strategy rpg feel.

I liked the fully linked Table of Contents.

Yeah, it's definitely intentionally aping that style - I deliberately want this to be able to play as Final Fantasy Tactics + XCOM. No offense taken!

Error 404 posted:

As I go through I keep getting the feeling I don't know what exactly is going on, there's a lot of stats and mechanics and GM tips that I don't understand (probably because I haven't reached the section that explains them.) But even aside from this, I don't really know much about the setting except for the half page intro text at the very top.

Part of the problem here I think is I only heard about this contest half-way through the month, so I just kinda dumped all of my mental notes into a semi-coherent document. It definitely needs some editing, I just ran out of time trying to polish it up (good to have everything linked up nicely, but prooobably could have used that time in other places!)

Error 404 posted:

I know that Manitou are nature spirits, and that players play as Manitou helping armies mankind wage war. (Against who?)
My critique here is more than likely just a matter of personal taste and preference, but I don't feel like I've got a good grasp of what this setting is about. When combined with the fact that the first quarter of the document so far has been pretty dense mechanics-wise and I'm just now getting to what being a Manitou actually is and how you play one, I'm kinda left feeling a bit lost as a reader.

So here's an issue that I was worried about - the thing I should have been more specific about is that you're either playing a Manitou OR in the army. Playing a Manitou is only for people sitting on the sidelines who aren't actually in the game - this is all based on a Choose Your Own Adventure I want to do for the forums, and that idea carries forward from that; that people who aren't actually playing can still have a say. While I still think it's a cool idea, I feel like it really bloated the concept more than it needed to be, and added a lot to the page count. You mention later that I need to pick a scale and stick to it, and I think this is one of those places I could have cut out.

Error 404 posted:

Looking at Unit creation though, things have gotten a bit more straight forward. The different unit types and then classes of unit. This section is laid out in a very logical and easy to understand fashion. The combat rules section is likewise well laid out and I'm now 'getting' how armies work, but I'm seeing that a lot of the mechanics that were introduced at the beginning are being repeated here, and in more detail.

I think by this point, I had kinda gotten the swing of how to convey information in a fun and informative way without adding unnecessary bloat - when I do further work on this later, I'll go through the earlier sections with a hacksaw, and make sure its as easy and straight forward as this - and either make sure that there is a clear distinction between playing the Manitou and playing the army, or phasing the Manitou out entirely except as DM control.

Error 404 posted:

If I may make some suggestions, perhaps you might want to move your Totem rules to the end of the playing a Manitou section and the army building section with the DM advice after the actual rules for choosing units/classes.

I would focus on one primary way this game is played and stick to it in the main rules writeup, and then explain things like campaign scale, and Tactical vs Strategic play in their own sections or sidebars with the new or changed rules that apply in those instances.

All good advice, particularly on scale - I wanted DMs to know that the system could be used for a variety of things, but really I should keep it tight and focus on a single size. When I realized I had written 25 drat pages about this, I knew I'd gone overboard and lost focus, but I was outta time!

All in all, great feedback, and I'll make sure to keep these notes in mind when I make my edits (for today though, I'm not touching it - sick of lookin' at it!)

edit: Also, make sure you take a look at the Excel sheet in the Dropbox folder - it makes making soldiers WAAAY easier, and I'm pretty proud of how it turned out!

# ¿ Aug 2, 2014 00:35

Dog Kisser: Mar 30, 2005; But People have fears that beasts do not. Questions, too.

In Land of The Manitou news, lovely goon Djw175 is running a playtest campaign in the system in a thread right here. The upside is I get to play! Fun!

# ¿ Aug 21, 2014 00:26

Dog Kisser: Mar 30, 2005; But People have fears that beasts do not. Questions, too.

Covok posted:

For the curious, we have completed all our playtests and I will provide my judgement soon after I have some time to mull all the details over.

Fun!

# ¿ Aug 21, 2014 01:23

Dog Kisser: Mar 30, 2005; But People have fears that beasts do not. Questions, too.

How exciting! Thanks for the consideration! Any tips on how I can improve on LotM?

# ¿ Aug 31, 2014 19:14

Dog Kisser: Mar 30, 2005; But People have fears that beasts do not. Questions, too.

Just out of curiosity, who ended up playtesting Land of the Manitou? I'm glad people seemed to like it, but if anyone has any feedback I'd appreciate it!

# ¿ Sep 2, 2014 14:30

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# ¿ May 16, 2024 15:41

Dog Kisser: Mar 30, 2005; But People have fears that beasts do not. Questions, too.

Covok posted:

I still need the captain's account to give your prize, I believe.

Also, Dog Kisser and NeonChamelon, has Dagon given you your rewards yet?

Yep!

# ¿ Sep 8, 2014 11:34

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > July Contest: 4th Of The Edition