The American South: Good Ol Boys and Social Racism.

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computer parts: Nov 18, 2010; PLEASE CLAP

HonorableTB posted:

Southern states (except for Texas, which isn't really "Southern" per se) take in more Federal tax dollars for aid than they pay back every year

This chart is also hilarious because it's basically "who uses more roads". Show me a chart that eliminates road contributions and you'd probably see a lot more in the Give vs Get pile.

# ? Jul 7, 2014 15:29

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# ? May 5, 2024 11:07

e_angst: Sep 20, 2001; by exmarx

computer parts posted:

This chart is also hilarious because it's basically "who uses more roads". Show me a chart that eliminates road contributions and you'd probably see a lot more in the Give vs Get pile.

New Mexico would likely stay the same, with all the federal research that goes on there. Also, Texas uses the most roads, but we had the good sense to pay for it with our state gasoline tax. (Though Rick Perry has done his very best to end the method that made Texas roads some of the best in the country and instead start privatizing as many highways as possible.)

# ? Jul 7, 2014 15:36

Yngwie Mangosteen: Aug 23, 2007

e_angst posted:

New Mexico would likely stay the same, with all the federal research that goes on there. Also, Texas uses the most roads, but we had the good sense to pay for it with our state gasoline tax. (Though Rick Perry has done his very best to end the method that made Texas roads some of the best in the country and instead start privatizing as many highways as possible.)

Don't get me started on that bullshit. As an example, the beltway around Houston has earned over three times what it actually ended up costing to build, and they refuse to remove the tolls so they can use it to 'generate revenue for new toll roads' completely ignoring that those roads will also have new tolls, which won't get removed in order to 'generate revenue for new toll roads' ad infinitum. Rick Perry is a sack of poo poo, and I will be incredibly glad when he's finally removed from office.

# ? Jul 7, 2014 15:43

tagesschau: Sep 1, 2006; Guten Abend, meine Damen und Herren.

Sucrose posted:

What I've gleaned from this thread isn't that The South is particularly hosed up, it's that we in the US treat non-whites (especially blacks) like poo poo, and most non-whites live in the South. Correct? I grew up in Michigan, and whoever thinks that extreme racism is confined to the South has never spent much time around blue-collar Northern rustbelt types. I've heard "Detroit should be blown up" more times than I can count.

If you look at this map it's immediately obvious where 8 Mile is.

queertea posted:

Just take a look at the most segregated metro areas in the US. Note that most of them are in the Rust Belt, unambiguously located in the "North." To paint institutional racism as a Southern phenomenon is disingenuous.

Indeed, and I was also surprised when I learned that the most segregated public school systems are also mostly in northern states.

# ? Jul 7, 2014 15:46

Jerry Manderbilt: May 31, 2012; No matter how much paperwork I process, it never goes away. It only increases.

Where's the article about how some roads in Texas are being turned into gravel because the state just won't pay for them anymore?

# ? Jul 7, 2014 15:56

Red Dad Redemption: Sep 29, 2007

Jerry Manderbilt posted:

Where's the article about how some roads in Texas are being turned into gravel because the state just won't pay for them anymore?

Is this what you were looking for?
http://www.texastribune.org/2013/08/19/conversion-of-roads-to-gravel-met-with-concern/

# ? Jul 7, 2014 16:01

Jastiger: Oct 11, 2008; by FactsAreUseless

nucleicmaxid posted:

So your options are 'literally committing war crimes' vs. help those progressives that do, in fact, live in and know something about the South (you're excluded from this, knowing literally jack all about the South as evidenced in this thread and your PYF thread that was thrown into FYD then burned to the ground.)

I think maybe working with the current progressives to make reddish purple states into purple, and eventually blue states is the way to go. Mostly because - the way you, and posters like you in this thread an others talk about Southerners, the only thing you're ever going to accomplish is getting them to hold onto their guns more tightly and be less accepting of change. Nobody changes when they're attacked, they may roll over but they'll secretly harbor negativity.

You have as much understanding of Southern culture as a Louisiana hillbilly does of Sunni Muslims. The issue is, in all places, a lack of ability to think like the person across from them, and that spans from Louisiana hillbillies to idiotic forums posters with J-names.

Also, Texas is a bit of a different thing in terms of whether it is the South or not. It's safe enough to include it in discussions about the South, but it has oddly progressive movements within it, especially in the major cities which are the vast majority of the population (Houston has had an openly gay mayor for 4 years as an example.) The real issue in places like Texas, where a strong and accepting urban population is being choked by a spread of rural idiocy is mostly gerrymandering and other political dickery. The real way to get the South to be more progressive is to understand them, speak to them in ways that don't belittle them, and convince them that you've their best interests in heart.

Your alternative is literally.

I enjoy how you ignore the actual social and historical issues that plague the South in a real way and instead focus on supposed "War Crimes". As others have been mentioning, the poor whites and blacks SHOULD be our allies. If there is ever an argument for socialism its in the largely agrarian parts of the South that are dependent upon equal access to resources and labor. Instead we have a history of segregation, jingoism, and anti-intellectualism that leads to a ton of infighting and suppression of new ideas.

I don't bash on the South because I think all Southerners are stupid. I bash on the South because people like you rush up to defend the culture as if its somehow equal to one that gives a poo poo about its poorest people. I bash on the South because, as I and others have mentioned, the levers of power have always been in the hands of a few wealthy white men. We see it from the slave holding days to the current days of gerrymandered votes and I think its bullshit and anyone that defends it is eating the bullshit.

I think you and I agree on what we should do about it and probably are close politically, I'm just less inclined to accommodate bullshit romanticized Southern culture as a good thing.

# ? Jul 7, 2014 16:02

Jerry Manderbilt: May 31, 2012; No matter how much paperwork I process, it never goes away. It only increases.

Sheikh Djibouti posted:

Is this what you were looking for?
http://www.texastribune.org/2013/08/19/conversion-of-roads-to-gravel-met-with-concern/

Yes, that's exactly it. Thanks.

# ? Jul 7, 2014 16:03

Yngwie Mangosteen: Aug 23, 2007

Jastiger posted:

I enjoy how you ignore the actual social and historical issues that plague the South in a real way and instead focus on supposed "War Crimes". As others have been mentioning, the poor whites and blacks SHOULD be our allies. If there is ever an argument for socialism its in the largely agrarian parts of the South that are dependent upon equal access to resources and labor. Instead we have a history of segregation, jingoism, and anti-intellectualism that leads to a ton of infighting and suppression of new ideas.

I don't bash on the South because I think all Southerners are stupid. I bash on the South because people like you rush up to defend the culture as if its somehow equal to one that gives a poo poo about its poorest people. I bash on the South because, as I and others have mentioned, the levers of power have always been in the hands of a few wealthy white men. We see it from the slave holding days to the current days of gerrymandered votes and I think its bullshit and anyone that defends it is eating the bullshit.

I think you and I agree on what we should do about it and probably are close politically, I'm just less inclined to accommodate bullshit romanticized Southern culture as a good thing.

No, I doubt we're all that close politically. You are a jingoistic sociopath, willing to write off several million people because of their history, while ignoring a similar but distinct history of racism, segregation, and violence in your own area. I actively dislike people who react the way that you do to things, without ever even attempting to understand why they are the way they are, especially when they call for literal massacres of people that disagree with them even slightly about things. The point of my whole post, which you seem to have ignored in your masturbatory fantasy of wiping out several million people for disagreeing with you, was that the South is actively changing, and the fastest way to see that change come to fruition is to stop being a reactionary sack of poo poo, and start understanding the root causes of the parts you dislike, so that they can be addressed and changed. Southern culture has its issues, but so does Northern culture, Western culture, and Northwestern culture. None of them are perfect.

Nobody is leaping to defend the South even, they're all just attacking you for being the leftist version of a Stormfront poster. All the southerners in this thread have pretty much said 'yeah it sucks, the South has a poo poo ton of problems, but in general they're all just people, so changing them is the way to go.' You're just upset that you're viewed as a complete dumbshit with idiotic opinions when you act like a complete dumbshit and express idiotic opinions.

tl;dr - You have a history of being supremely jingoistic to the point of putting right wing xenophobes to shame with your vehemence, to the point where your last thread where you frothed at the mouth about the South got shoved into FYAD then burned to the ground because you were insufferable.

edit:

Bip Roberts posted:

Sherman didn't massacre southerners, FYI. Dismantling the slave and war infrastructure of the south wasn't a war crime.

Total War has a very similar effect. He didn't ship them to an Auschwitz like place, but he did some pretty terrible things in order to win the war. Whether that was justified or not is a little more up in the air considering what was actually happening at the time, but to try and say that you should start burning down cities and more or less salting the earth during today's South is pretty extreme.

Even Sherman himself was horrified by what he had to do. To have it called up as 'a good idea' is fairly offensive. If Jastiger was calling for the extermination of muslims, or the burning of muslim-owned businesses, I'd feel the exact same way I do about his call to do those things to people born in southern states. If slavery was still around, sure, it'd be justified. It's not. There are endemic issues that are also seen in other regions of the country, and to call for similar tactics is absolutely insane. It's not 1863, it's 2014. A different response is required, and if someone were to suddenly start razing and burning the south, it would almost certainly be a war crime. Or just a crime against humanity.

Yngwie Mangosteen fucked around with this message at 16:30 on Jul 7, 2014

# ? Jul 7, 2014 16:15

Bip Roberts: Mar 29, 2005

Sherman didn't massacre southerners, FYI. Dismantling the slave and war infrastructure of the south wasn't a war crime.

# ? Jul 7, 2014 16:19

computer parts: Nov 18, 2010; PLEASE CLAP

Also again the attitudes expressed by the South are apparently prevalent across many areas of the US it's just especially noticeable because there are significant numbers of minorities there.

In other words, you have a bunch of black people move to Michigan and suddenly there are severe racial problems in Michigan even though it was never part of or near the Confederacy.

# ? Jul 7, 2014 16:22

Grand Theft Autobot: Feb 28, 2008; I'm something of a fucking idiot myself