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I liked season 2 better than most posters here, but I'm bothered by the lack of backstory for Inaho and the lack of development for many of the secondary characters.
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Mar 29, 2015 22:59
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There was tons of character development: Inko: No deathflag, didn't end up a romantic interest Rayet: Killed a lot of martians! Ace #2 Kaizuka: Ace #3, never death flagged Maritos: Gets over his alcoholism and shoots mans again First Officer: Wasn't berated for not having a man for at least several episodes See?
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Mar 29, 2015 23:02
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I'm disappointed how alive everyone is at the end  Also, the proper answer to Slaine's question is: Who knows? We've already est. stalker tendencies here, guys. Just be firm otherwise he'll always have hope p.s. is there any mecha anime which doesn't have the whole rival side plot built-in? Nothing wrong with that as I've always wanted a arch-nemesis but still.
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Mar 29, 2015 23:16
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Alder posted:I'm disappointed how alive everyone is at the end Gargantia doesn't. Not that you should watch Gargantia mind you.
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Mar 29, 2015 23:18
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eureka seven doesn't
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Mar 29, 2015 23:20
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unless you count anemone/dominic but not really the same thing anyway, watch eureka seven
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Mar 29, 2015 23:21
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Rodyle posted:Gargantia doesn't. Not that you should watch Gargantia mind you. Has anything Urobuchi been involved with actually been any good? Between Madoka, Gargantia, and now A/Z I'm tempted to actively avoid anything the man's name is attached to in the future, even if he isn't a main writer on the project like with this and Gargantia.
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Mar 30, 2015 00:26
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madoka was good
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Mar 30, 2015 00:30
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the rest of his stuff is bad
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Mar 30, 2015 00:31
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Cake Attack posted:madoka was good I'll grant you that it was the best of the three series I listed.
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Mar 30, 2015 00:37
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Raxivace posted:Has anything Urobuchi been involved with actually been any good? Between Madoka, Gargantia, and now A/Z I'm tempted to actively avoid anything the man's name is attached to in the future, even if he isn't a main writer on the project like with this and Gargantia. You've got it backwards. Most things written primarily by him are good, but other things with his name attached tend to be bad.
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Mar 30, 2015 00:38
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Psycho Pass, Fate Zero, Aldnoah are all Urobuchi/Urobuchi-inspired and they all have scenes where a woman is straddled by an assailant and attacked. Aldnoah isn't fully an Urobuchi creation though so that's why Asseylum doesn't die. I haven't seen Blassreiter or Gargantia nor have I played Saya no Uta but I'm pretty sure plenty of women are defiled and murdered there too because the guy has weird ideas about them. Either that or he is a hack that resorts to "woman is brutally murdered in compromising position before being brutally murdered." But I mean he did a pretty good job on Psycho Pass aside from that I guess.
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Mar 30, 2015 00:42
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Exactly 3 series mentioned are primarily Urobuchi and those are Psycho Pass S1, Fate Zero, and Madoka. Saya's a game but that's also him, though if you want to do the "based on this product this is my psychological profile of this person" thing Saya and Zero are from depression era Urobuchi.
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Mar 30, 2015 00:45
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Eej posted:Psycho Pass, Fate Zero, Aldnoah are all Urobuchi/Urobuchi-inspired and they all have scenes where a woman is straddled by an assailant and attacked. Aldnoah isn't fully an Urobuchi creation though so that's why Asseylum doesn't die. I don't remember such a scene in Gargantia, but there is a scene played for a comedy where the male lead is almost raped by transphobic stereotypes.
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Mar 30, 2015 00:53
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Raxivace posted:Has anything Urobuchi been involved with actually been any good? Between Madoka, Gargantia, and now A/Z I'm tempted to actively avoid anything the man's name is attached to in the future, even if he isn't a main writer on the project like with this and Gargantia. Urobuchi actually did write the series composition for Gargantia as well as the first and last episodes. I don't think it's fair to assume his almost total lack of involvement here is identical to his reduced but still important role there. Also, Gargantia suffers from a few issues but it is okay. Could have been much better though. Rodyle posted:Exactly 3 series mentioned are primarily Urobuchi and those are Psycho Pass S1, Fate Zero, and Madoka. Saya's a game but that's also him, though if you want to do the "based on this product this is my psychological profile of this person" thing Saya and Zero are from depression era Urobuchi. Phantom: Requiem for the Phantom (silly name) is based on yet another game he wrote. I'd say it's about 80 to 90% faithful to the VN, showing both the positives and negatives of early Urobuchi works. He also wrote a couple of episodes directly. It's rather depressing, as expected from the man. wielder fucked around with this message at 01:17 on Mar 30, 2015 |
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Mar 30, 2015 01:09
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Eej posted:Psycho Pass, Fate Zero, Aldnoah are all Urobuchi/Urobuchi-inspired and they all have scenes where a woman is straddled by an assailant and attacked. Aldnoah isn't fully an Urobuchi creation though so that's why Asseylum doesn't die. Uh what. In Psycho-Pass Akane is genuinely able to take care of herself, almost effortlessly so. Asseylum could judo throw just about everyone who approached her and only almost died in a compromising position (Ender'd in the shower) by another woman. And Saya no Uta is a lovecraftian horror thing so you'd expect it to happen there but for the most part the eldritch horror that does the murdering is a girl so that one is a little harder to critique. F/Z is also a little more nuanced as well.
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Mar 30, 2015 01:20
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Guy likes to pick pretty women as his victims all the time is what my point is. E: like all the time Eej fucked around with this message at 01:34 on Mar 30, 2015 |
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Mar 30, 2015 01:29
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Urobuchi picks everyone as his victims, that's why he's called Butcher, because his stories have mad body counts. Like, if you want to talk about some of it being uncomfortable then sure (although I would argue that generally being the point) but declaring him Japanese David Cage is being straight up disingenuous. Rody One Half fucked around with this message at 01:39 on Mar 30, 2015 |
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Mar 30, 2015 01:35
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Eej posted:Guy likes to pick pretty women as his victims all the time is what my point is. What makes his depictions 'bad' or convey some sort of negative message or subtext? His Heroines that have the ability or the training generally seem competent and able to fend for themselves. To me a female character that's been depicted as having some sort of means of willingness to defend themselves get suddenly powerless because of a contrivance; that's when I start asking critical questions.
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Mar 30, 2015 02:03
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Honestly Urobuchi's work in Kamen Rider Gaim is probably some of the worst of it. Of the two major female characters, one had not a single iota of agency and served the dual purpose of being the motivating force behind the three male leads (and the conflict involving them) and to be part of a heavily foreshadowed plot twist that ended incredibly anticlimactically. The best one can say of her is that she died but not really. The other was interesting and an active participant in the plot, though not as much as the male characters, and she was discarded for some cheap pathos near the end, sacrificing herself for the male deuteragonist-turned-antagonist. It's up in the air as to how much of that was Urobuchi and how much if that was just Kamen Rider being a bad franchise to be a woman in. However, consider in Fate/Zero that none of the female characters had any agency in that and existed primarily as plot tickets, sources of motivation for male characters, or a talking guided missile with a sword. He's got a track record for not being very self-aware with his tendencies about writing women with little or no agency to be used and discarded for drama (something notorious among hacks, see: many American comic book writers), and this is mostly avoided in Madoka by sheer virtue of almost the entire relevant cast being girls. Coincidentally, Madoka is still regarded as Urobuchi's best work. This really is coincidence, as correlation has nothing to do with causation there.
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Mar 30, 2015 02:23
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Oh, and a "strong female character" is a bit of a misunderstanding, what people really care about is a female character with agency. You can have the strongest woman in the world blowing up half a city with a magic sword and it won't mean much if she's not a character with any real control over her actions or her place in the narrative. Even Kinoko Nasu, the creator of the Fate franchise, noted that the tendency to write women who are physically strong but emotionally or narratively weak isn't much better than writing a woman who's physically weak as both are, essentially, in need of rescue. In the former case, this means being "rescued" in the form of romance with an emotionally strong male lead, something he admits to in a lot of his work and as something of a rut he's been actively working to get out of.
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Mar 30, 2015 02:32
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I'm not sure what to think about Madoka after he compared magical girls to Al Qaeda because they bring misfortune under the name of justice.
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Mar 30, 2015 02:36
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Eej posted:I'm not sure what to think about Madoka after he compared magical girls to Al Qaeda because they bring misfortune under the name of justice. Wow, now neither am I.
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Mar 30, 2015 02:37
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Urobuchi makes weird jokes in interviews and poo poo. It doesn't really go deeper than that, or at least it's doubtful.
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Mar 30, 2015 02:40
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magical girls can't melt steel beams
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Mar 30, 2015 02:41
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kyuubey did walpurgisnacht
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Mar 30, 2015 02:46
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Cake Attack posted:anyway, watch eureka seven I tried. It's the same for Code Geass and Gundam SEED. Maybe I had to be there to understand  Still a shame though as I love Bones' work just not that series and the other one with the weird alien people. I realized that I actually watched a lot of Urobuchi's work without intending to looking at my MAL. He's OK but the only thing I remember clearly is how he spend a few months in a psychiatric ward in his early 20s. Oh and he tends make his FeMCs suffer a lot for something something. The entire P-P series is just one character study of Akane and that's what was the only redeeming factor which kept me interested through 2 seasons. I liked Madoka's OST but never watched the movie(s). I hear they actually updated the scenery/bgs so now everyone is having tea in a nice apartment. Not a huge fan of anime series --> movie adaption as I just don't want to re-watch stuff I've seen already. Only exception is Persona 3 because I love SMT that much.
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Mar 30, 2015 03:25
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Urobuchi didn't do the second season of P-P, which is why it's so much worse. S1 did a really good job of painting a picture of the future with all the various bits about holographic everything, food that is all the same stuff but flavoured to taste like real stuff etc. Then S2 comes along and makes no attempt to expand upon the setting and focuses on just future cops and well, it feels a lot like Aldnoah S2 actually! You can't really fault him for world building.
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Mar 30, 2015 03:52
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T.G. Xarbala posted:Oh, and a "strong female character" is a bit of a misunderstanding, what people really care about is a female character with agency. You can have the strongest woman in the world blowing up half a city with a magic sword and it won't mean much if she's not a character with any real control over her actions or her place in the narrative. I was addressing the criticism that Urubuchi is saying something negative in how women end up as targets and I think on a broad level this isn't really a fair assessment when you account for genre and really how else are you going to show off a villain being evil? Kicking puppies? The Reveal in Gargantia wouldn't I feel be as gut punching without the Robot crushing the child fish person. Where I feel this trope crosses the line from yeah, cheap pathos like Britannia gunning down civilians in their homes to something sickening for hard to articulate reasons is if it happens to a character that for all purposes should be able to defend themselves but just don't because that's just how strong the writer's or artists biases are. Like the whole "Grab the girl lightly by the wrist" maneuver and 99% of the time that used to always work because that's the 90's; but now imagine it happens to like Power Girl or Wonder Woman and then start listening to the sounds of your teeth grinding. That a good portion of his female characters may lack agency is a different question and not one I was defending.
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Mar 30, 2015 03:58
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Raenir Salazar posted:I was addressing the criticism that Urubuchi is saying something negative in how women end up as targets and I think on a broad level this isn't really a fair assessment when you account for genre and really how else are you going to show off a villain being evil? I'm honestly not sure how to approach this question because I don't know what level of trolling you are currently engaged at.
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Mar 30, 2015 04:11
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just call him stupid
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Mar 30, 2015 04:12
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I think/hope what he's getting at is that there's a difference between saying his female characters need more agency which is a valid criticism of Urobuchi (but one I feel he's improved on generally even if he's got a long way to go), and saying Urobuchi gets off on rape scenes etc, which is a comment on his character I don't think is warranted. On the other hand boy am I glad Maiya's backstory got cut from the FZ anime because that's the height of Depression Urobuchi edginess. E: actually how was that movie Uro made for Toei anyway Rody One Half fucked around with this message at 04:32 on Mar 30, 2015 |
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Mar 30, 2015 04:20
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Besides, what really turns Urobuchi on is motorcycles.
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Mar 30, 2015 04:48
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Eej posted:I'm honestly not sure how to approach this question because I don't know what level of trolling you are currently engaged at. Raenir can be a bit dense (although he's improved over the years), but he never trolls.
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Mar 30, 2015 04:52
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T.G. Xarbala posted:Besides, what really turns Urobuchi on is motorcycles. Uro's ideal show is about a disembodied business suit that rides a motorbike and solves future crime with future guns.
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Mar 30, 2015 04:53
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That Urobuchi movie that just came out was the cheeriest thing ever. No suffering, all sentient lifeforms can co-exist (whether it be baseline humans, uploaded humans, or non-human AIs). Aldnoah Zero technically wasn't Urobuchi, but Slaine's ending was pure Urobuchi-utilitarianism as gently caress. Slaine wallows in misery, and Inaho doesn't get Asseylum, and this is satisfactory because this is a cruel uncaring universe that is so much bigger than those 3 kids. Peace requires compromises and lies.
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Mar 30, 2015 04:58
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Silver2195 posted:Raenir can be a bit dense (although he's improved over the years), but he never trolls. Well if that's the case I'll break it down for him. When I was marathoning P-P in preparation for S2 it struck me. His "awful act of evil" that he relies on is some form of sexual violence towards a woman. In the first episode the criminal is basically going to rape and murder a random woman. Later when they are testing out the jamming helmets guess who gets an extended murder scene? Yep, random pretty woman gets straddled on the street and has her face smashed in. There's also that subplot that kind of lampshades this where Oryo turns young "pure" girls into macabre sculptures after sleeping with them. That's right, dead girls are the shocking art that got her dad in trouble with society. The other thing that I saw recently by him was Fate Zero where Rin's mom (see I can't even remember her name because that's how important she is to the plot) exists as the motivating element for Kariya as an object of obsession which culminates in him straddling her in a church and strangling her. I don't know much about Maiya's backstory aside from child soldier/sexual slavery of some sort though. Where I'm going with this is Urobuchi may has some weird hangups about women. Which wouldn't be unusual considering that Tomino kind of went through the same phase and he is responsible for some of the weirdest shows about women while also making some of the best female characters (everyone loves Emma). The other option is that he's a fundamentally flawed writer because he knows that people find sexualized violence towards women shocking so he writes those in as generic "evil things happen" scenes that are guaranteed to get the point across. Which of course is its own problem because why would anyone respect a lazy writer, especially when he is propagating the trope that this is how you know a person is really evil. Alternatively: you are stupid if you can't think of any way of showing a villain is evil aside from rape murdering a woman.
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Mar 30, 2015 05:35
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Urobuchi does at least sometimes depict horrifying violence towards males as well (Zouken shoving the worm down Kariya's throat, Gilles and Ryunosuke enthusiastically killing young boys, the flesh of male "latent criminals" swelling and exploding). I do agree that the targets of shocking violence in his works are more often women, though.
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Mar 30, 2015 06:01
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The dumbest part of this episode was the part where Slaine surrenders and there's about to be no conflict, until Slaine's underlings go "gently caress it we can't have a final episode without a fight" so Slaine also goes "yeah me and the orange kid gotta have our climactic showdown" Like the writers got halfway through writing the ending that they wanted to do, then went "oh poo poo we forgot that robots need to duke it out too"
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Mar 30, 2015 07:31
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ninjewtsu posted:The dumbest part of this episode was the part where Slaine surrenders and there's about to be no conflict, until Slaine's underlings go "gently caress it we can't have a final episode without a fight" so Slaine also goes "yeah me and the orange kid gotta have our climactic showdown" Slaine's decision to fight makes sense, it is a win win for him. If Slaine loses its not problem his whole plan is to die so that the princess can take control of his faction. If he wins then Earth is down its most powerful solder and warship, which puts the princess's faction is in a stronger position. Also he hates our MC for the gave sin of making friends with the princess. What caused Harklight to turn around is a bit harder to figure out.
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Mar 30, 2015 14:51
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