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soggybagel posted:http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/09/if-you-build-it-they-might-not-come-the-risky-economics-of-sports-stadiums/260900/ Detroit's new hockey arena is going to own and be a massive boon to the community, along with many other unseen benefits like major donors to the city forcing the government to get their affairs in order. It's gonna be great.
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Jul 25, 2014 04:38
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I don't understand how national parking companies and international restaurant chains making money off Detroit residents is good, but obviously you have an axe to grind and my objection stands for all stadium deals where the argument is it'll help the economy
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Jul 25, 2014 05:00
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AsInHowe posted:Detroit's new hockey arena is going to own and be a massive boon to the community A boon to the community because it wanted a hockey arena, which is enough of a justification in my book. Its the city version of buying a ridiculously huge TV you don't really need.
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Jul 25, 2014 05:09
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Sash! posted:A boon to the community because it wanted a hockey arena, which is enough of a justification in my book. Its the city version of buying a ridiculously huge TV you don't really need. If you've ever been to the Joe Louis Arena, you'd know that the city needs a replacement for many reasons. Also, by creating the many neighborhoods around the arena, Ilitch and various other landowners can put pressure on the city over things like "the city should figure out a way to calculate taxes" and "the water department should have an actual system for collecting payments".
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Jul 25, 2014 05:31
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Sash! posted:A boon to the community because it wanted a hockey arena, which is enough of a justification in my book. Its the city version of buying a ridiculously huge TV you don't really need. Yeah, but who wants to live in a house with a lovely TV?
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Jul 25, 2014 05:45
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AsInHowe posted:If you've ever been to the Joe Louis Arena, you'd know that the city needs a replacement for many reasons. Also, by creating the many neighborhoods around the arena, Ilitch and various other landowners can put pressure on the city over things like "the city should figure out a way to calculate taxes" and "the water department should have an actual system for collecting payments". And as an added bonus the city of Detroit is paying for 58 percent of the arena. Detroit Free Press posted:With a new hockey arena on track to open as early as the 2016-17 season, the agreement between the City of Detroit and the Red Wings will disappear, and with it about $7 million in revenue the city received annually from the team’s home games.
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Jul 25, 2014 08:19
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Nobody is going to argue that new stadiums aren't great, but those terms are absolute poo poo for the city.
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Jul 25, 2014 12:08
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football fuckerman posted:Nobody is going to argue that new stadiums aren't great, but those terms are absolute poo poo for the city. Detroit is a toilet, man. poo poo abounds within it's rusted bowl. Nothing but love for you guys if you live in Detroit, I hope your city leaders can (if not turn it around) at least stop the loving bleeding.
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Jul 25, 2014 14:19
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i see, that helps. now that i know detroit is bad, the terms of the stadium construction are OK.
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Jul 25, 2014 14:21
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football fuckerman posted:i see, that helps. now that i know detroit is bad, the terms of the stadium construction are OK. I wasn't saying the contract wasn't poo poo because it's in a toilet, I said it's poo poo, and you shouldn't be surprised to find it in a toilet. To the greater point... Atlanta is building the Goatse stadium currently, and the Braves are moving outside of the City also. We've got -two- big'ol toilet projects in the works. The Braves, however, were forced to move because the ball park they've been playing in is owned by the City of Atlanta and the Braves take such a huge hit in revenue paying the city for use of the field, that it actually hurts the teams payroll. The Falcons? Not so much. Although Blank is footing the larger bill for building the stadium, the city is being forced to shell out probably at least as much on infrastructure improvements around the site. This is all being done so that A.) Blank can have another super-bowl in this town and B.) so that Blank can buy an MLS expansion team to share the new stadium with the Falcons. You guys probably aren't familiar with mass transit in Atlanta, so here's a breakdown. Within the city limits there are 2 highways, north/south and east/west. There are 2 Marta lines, north/south and east/west. The surface streets are a maze of one way nightmares laid out like a spiderweb with 15 different foci. In short, any infrastructure improvements will be more like infrastructure band-aids. The last Superbowl in Atlanta was a nightmare because of how bad traffic was, and we've done nothing as a city to remedy that in 14 loving years... and Goatse Dome is being build literally right next door to the current Georgia Dome. Location, location, location. Also, I'm not sure Blank has read anything about Atlanta sports enthusiasts, but by and large, they won't watch you if you're a mediocre ball club. I hope his MLS dreams start up quickly. I pretty much detest soccer as it's the only sport my parents would enroll me in as a kid, so I probably won't be going to those games anyway.
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Jul 25, 2014 15:12
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Furious Lobster posted:I'd love to have a team back in LA but Raiderfans are the worst; I'd rather have a commute that requires usage of both the 405 and the 10 than see the Raiders back in LA. Please rot in the Bay forever. I take the 405 and 10 twice a day to commute and I'd love to see the Raiders in LA. I could be way down to  It just makes too much sense. Also, I know NFL AM is produced out here already, it would be a short matter of time until a shitload of football production moved here too. Its Miller Time fucked around with this message at 17:54 on Jul 25, 2014 |
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Jul 25, 2014 17:51
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Hey look, the rare LA Chargers fan in his natural habitat.
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Jul 25, 2014 17:55
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Chilichimp posted:Hey look, the rare LA Chargers fan in his natural habitat. There are no Chargers fans in LA. There are barely any in San Diego.
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Jul 25, 2014 19:02
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I can't decide if politicians forking over hundreds of millions for teams is due to stupidity or bribery.
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Jul 25, 2014 19:06
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go3 posted:I can't decide if politicians forking over hundreds of millions for teams is due to stupidity or bribery. Probably a bit of both. Also, extortion, a lot of people will loving hate a mayor that shits on their home town team's new stadium... especially because of the (very empty) threat of moving the team unless they're given favorable treatment.
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Jul 25, 2014 20:11
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ROSS MY SALAD posted:There are no Chargers fans in LA. There are barely any in San Diego. I was going to make a joke about this, but then the joke I was formulating made me really sad.
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Jul 25, 2014 20:27
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Chilichimp posted:Probably a bit of both. Honestly it's a very low-risk decision by the politicians, they get the PR bump of throinw ghteir name in alongside a big, cool, development, and then they're gone (either retired or on to bigger and better) when the poo poo hits the fan. No one cares about the guy who builds a bridge, but the guy who keeps your football team in the town gets a hero's welcome.
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Jul 26, 2014 06:27
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So here's a thing http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/pro-sports/article/Oakland-Raiders-owner-in-talks-with-SA-to-5654812.phpquote:SAN ANTONIO — Oakland Raiders owner Mark Davis and two top lieutenants met recently with several San Antonio officials to discuss the potential of moving his NFL team from the Bay Area to the Alamo City, sources familiar with the matter have confirmed.
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Jul 29, 2014 22:33
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Why the hell move to San Antonio before LA? That makes zero sense. Has to be bullshit.
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Jul 29, 2014 22:36
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A statue of Al Davis in front of a stadium in loving Texas. That would be the most hilariously awkward thing
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Jul 29, 2014 22:39
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Having lived in San Antonio, it would play out one of two ways. 1. Nobody would give a poo poo at all about the team because frankly nobody gives a poo poo about football in San Antonio. The most successful football team in the city is my D3 college. I didn't even see that much Cowboys paraphernalia while I was there. I'm guessing the Longhorns are probably the most popular team by a long shot, and they're not exactly competing with an NFL team for attention anyway. OR 2. They would eat it up, like they have the Spurs. Everywhere in town during the NBA season (and beyond) it's "GO SPURS GO" on every sign, every flagpole, every place you look. My working theory was that it was just the only professional team in town so they had nothing to divide their attention. However, they've also been wildly successful for the past 15 years and I wasn't there prior to that so I don't know if it was like this prior to their success, so it's foolish to say with certainty that San Antonio would really embrace a football team the same way unless it immediately had success. My gut tells me that #1 is a far more likely situation. Even the high school football games in town weren't all that well-attended. Of course, there were some outlying suburbs where they were more popular, but in general San Antonio doesn't seem to really care about football. They much more care about fútbol.
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Jul 29, 2014 22:48
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No Safe Word posted:My gut tells me that #1 is a far more likely situation. Even the high school football games in town weren't all that well-attended. Everywhere else in the world this would mean absolutely nothing, but since it's Texas I do actually find this pretty worrisome.
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Jul 29, 2014 22:50
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Raiders twitter response: @RAIDERS Raiders Owner Mark Davis, "I was in San Antonio to honor Cliff Branch on his induction into the PVILCA..." Former San Antonio Mayor Henry Cisneros is a friend, and Henry suggested I take the opportunity to meet with..." "...with some of the city officials while we were in town. I have nothing further to discuss on the topic."
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Jul 30, 2014 00:10
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quote:Ian Rapoport @RapSheet 16m As some one who just moved to Texas PLEASE GOD
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Jul 30, 2014 00:19
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I'm going to be living in SA and then Portland for the foreseeable future so I hope this is true and then it goes badly enough that they take a hail mary and move to Portland. 
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Jul 30, 2014 00:27
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Jerry Jones ain't gonna let it happenquote:Charean Williams @NFLCharean 5m quote:Charean Williams @NFLCharean 4m
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Jul 30, 2014 00:39
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Calm down, it's just a bargaining chip v. both Oakland and to put pressure on Goodell to sweeten an LA deal/stadium. The NFL is way more invested in a team(or two, actually) going to LA than SA.
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Jul 30, 2014 00:49
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Exactly it's just leverage. The odds of a non expansion NFL team coming to San Antonio is slim
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Jul 30, 2014 01:03
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Blitz7x posted:As some one who just moved to Texas Man, you just love it in the poo poo states, huh. I doubt it'll happen, but it wouldn't fit, IMO. San Antonio Raiders. Ick. At least we have some Al history in LA. Might as well rebrand them if you're moving to Texas, and gently caress that.
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Jul 30, 2014 01:03
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Volkerball posted:Man, you just love it in the poo poo states, huh. I doubt it'll happen, but it wouldn't fit, IMO. San Antonio Raiders. Ick. At least we have some Al history in LA. Might as well rebrand them if you're moving to Texas, and gently caress that. Hopefully onto Denver in ~3 years 
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Jul 30, 2014 01:32
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Blitz7x posted:Hopefully onto Denver in ~3 years 
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Jul 30, 2014 01:37
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No Safe Word posted:Having lived in San Antonio, it would play out one of two ways. It's #2. You think there's any city in Texas where people wouldn't show up for football? UTSA's a mid-major and has only been playing football for three years, but they're still drawing respectable crowds at the Alamodome. People here turn out for the NBA, you better believe they'll turn out for the loving NFL. All that new oil money has to go somewhere. San Antonio will love the hell out of anything that legitimizes the city. Plus, put a stadium in San Marcos or New Braunfels, and you're within 40 minutes of San Antonio and Austin. Obviously the Raiders aren't moving to San Antonio, but it's not that much of a stretch to think the area could get a team in the next 20 years or so. General Dog fucked around with this message at 02:27 on Jul 30, 2014 |
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Jul 30, 2014 02:18
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Frackie Robinson posted:Obviously the Raiders aren't moving to San Antonio, but it's not that much of a stretch to think the area could get a team in the next 20 years or so.  yeah, that's what Angelenos have been saying for the past 20 years; at this point, it actually is too much of a stretch.
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Jul 30, 2014 03:37
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Furious Lobster posted:
They already had their chance
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Jul 30, 2014 04:01
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No Safe Word posted:Having lived in San Antonio, it would play out one of two ways. Do you actually live in San Antonio? Football is incredibly popular there. UTSA set some records for attendance for a first year program and the Cowboys might as well be from San Antonio when you look at the ratings they get in SA and the support in general.
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Jul 30, 2014 04:41
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warcrimes posted:I had no idea it was this bad in other places. I was going off the Giants', 49ers' and incoming Warriors' new stadiums, which are all very local friendly. The SF deals are a total aberration in American sports. The Giants ballpark had to be privately financed because the city of SF was completely unwilling to use public funding. It was a miracle that a new ownership group came up with the cash and borrowing deal they did to get AT&T built. Ever since, every Bay Area team knows that if they want to build a stadium in SF, it's on them because the City isn't paying (and rightfully so). That's why the Niners are moving to Santa Clara whom are offering public money. The Warriors are likely moving to SF but they have Larry Ellison megabucks for the bankroll. In general, public financing is a total sham and almost always hurts the city and its people. Kevin Draper, who blogs about the Warriors and the NBA, wrote a really nice piece reviewing public subsidization of private stadia. A quote: quote:...the caveats are much more important than the “successful” examples. Stadiums almost always fail to benefit the cities they are built in, and are a waste of public money. “Successful” stadiums must fulfill very specific criteria, like being built downtown in an already above average wealthy city. Even then, stadiums don’t have widespread benefits for their city, and the benefits to the neighborhood aren’t net for the city, but rather is entertainment spending that is redirected from a different area in the city. Finally, the successful arenas don’t actually use a lot of money, and/or are far exceeded by billions in private development. Akbar fucked around with this message at 07:27 on Jul 30, 2014 |
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Jul 30, 2014 07:23
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Stadium's are a nice-to-have thing that can help with the happiness of the people who live in the area, as long as there aren't any major problems keeping the general population from achieving financial success.
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Jul 30, 2014 16:24
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San Antonio isn't a stretch, it's the 2nd largest city in the state (behind Houston, yes the the complete Dalls/Ft. Worth Metro area is larger). Football would work there, absolutely. But this is a stunt to light a fire under Oakland.
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Jul 30, 2014 16:34
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Kibner posted:Stadium's are a nice-to-have thing that can help with the happiness of the people who live in the area, as long as there aren't any major problems keeping the general population from achieving financial success. Every community should have an arena that can hold concerts and the circus and Disney on ice or whatever. What they don't need is banks of luxery boxes that only put money in the hands of private ownership.
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Jul 30, 2014 16:48
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