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on the left posted:People with exceptional skills and people from countries with roughly reciprocal immigration policies towards the US. If your country denies visas to US citizens, prepare to see your petitions denied. This does create a potential moral problem of actively brain draining poor nations. Cercadelmar posted:What makes your spouse so special that they deserve citizenship more than the people already living and working here? The only moral immigration is my immigration
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Jul 16, 2014 18:35
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on the left posted:Wow, literally thousands of illegal immigrants, out of the millions in the US. Good job Obama. So you want to deport 10-12 million people or at least make their lives hell? There'd be a whole neighborhood in my city that was suddenly mostly depopulated(not like it'd happen here anyways, you leave out the part a lot of undocumented people live in sanctuary cities where the good deal of legal citizens also don't want them deported or their lives made harder)
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Jul 17, 2014 01:20
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on the left posted:Just start enforcing the laws as written (i.e. you can't employ someone without working rights), and let the problem take care of itself. But does this come with legal residency for everyone already here?
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Jul 17, 2014 01:30
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on the left posted:Why should it? Because it's the pragmatic thing do? Like these people live here, work here and are part of their community. Basically you want to encourage 10-15,000 people of my 135-140,000 person city to self-deport?
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Jul 17, 2014 03:23
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Jarmak posted:I agree that we should be putting more of the burden on the employer, but you can't ignore the fact that in the late 19th and early 20th centuries we had a booming manufacturing economy that was fueled by abusively cheap immigrant labor. One also has to take into account the giant change in government spending since then. Like it's obvious we can take in a decent amount of low skilled people because we already do it, the job market absorbs them pretty well. If the US just went "Yo, everyone gets a citizenship card who shows up at the border", that may create some issues depending on how many people show up. computer parts posted:The reason you don't see poor Black people or Asians in those jobs is that combined they make up about 15% of the population in the US. Yeah but don't Hispanics make up like 15-16%? When it comes to these jobs, and specifically farm work, it probably has something to do with the Hispanic people in the fields know how to do it. It actually takes some skill to pick vegetables/fruit with speed and poor black, asian or white people in America generally have never done it(and as events in certain states have shown, Americans of all colors factually don't want to do it). As for construction, most poor blacks and asians are citizens and probably aren't going to stand on corners hoping for work, and even if they did there might be a bias against them as people might assume Hispanics are better workers and know what they're doing since you in fact never see people of other ethnicity standing on the corner waiting to do that kind of work.
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Jul 17, 2014 16:49
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Talmonis posted:I would however, prefer if they had to go through background checks and prove they're a productive member of society before becoming a citizen eligible to vote. 3 years should be plenty of an opportunity to prove you can pay your taxes and remain employed enough to not rely on social services to survive. I rely on a social service to survive and have for what will be going on 3 years at this point, am I no longer allowed to vote?
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Jul 17, 2014 17:31
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Talmonis posted:You're a citizen, you cannot lose your rights unless you're a criminal (who should also be able to vote). You can't expect a nation to accept a mass influx of new people who are incapable (or unwilling) of paying into the system enough to not be a cost burden. No other nation does so. The system is designed to take care of only so many people. Open immigration without restriction would see other countries dumping millions of the most desperate, disabled and handicapped on our shores to avoid paying for their care themselves. Which is probably why we shouldn't say "border is open, everyone gets green cards who shows up". Holding that standard to people already here though is inane because it's an impossible standard, especially when the people we're talking about tend to be poor people. I mean if someone has kids they're automatically going to be a burden until those kids are out of school. Plus the expansion of Medicaid means that a whole lot of people will be dependent on a government service for a good portion of their lives.
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Jul 17, 2014 18:19
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Talmonis posted:This is a good point. People already here should be given citizenship after a background check for criminality. Though I think my standard is just fine for any new arrivals. We need to have some kind of standards. If you're going to set standards, you set the standards so it applies to people before they even enter the country. You don't let someone enter the country and go "Well you can live here, assuming you don't get laid off or the economy doesn't tank, otherwise good luck bro"
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Jul 17, 2014 18:38
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Talmonis posted:The problem is we don't have any proposals to stop people from entering the country illegally that doesn't involve roving bands of armed rednecks. Make employers actually check SS numbers, boom, I solved the problem.
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Jul 17, 2014 18:44
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Talmonis posted:Partially, yes. We still need to help the people still here with documentation. 1. Give amnesty and legal documentation to people here 2. Make employers actually check SS numbers This isn't hard issue to solve.
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Jul 17, 2014 18:48
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