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Ryand-Smith posted:See, its funny. I can tell that most of the people in this thread are all not descendants of immigrants (as in, my old man received their naturalization through military service). There isn't a line. There's a lottery, for most people. A lottery is not in line. And no, if, for example, I have to these days stand in line and fill out all sorts of forms to be able to get a loan for college, that doesn't mean that if we declared tomorrow that everyone from now on gets to go to college free with no hassle, it wouldn't be a gently caress you to me. It'd be a good thing that was happening. Illegal workers also don't destroy wage structures. Lack of worker protection does that, and immigrants being too afraid of deportation to report labor abuses. If we prioritized labor abuses above deportation, we'd see much better conditions. quote:I'm sorry if I'm contrarian, but when you have filled out hundreds of immigration papers, visa requests, signed forms, and gone to naturalization ceremonies, you would understand that people who have worked hard, and not had the luck to simply cross a border (luck meaning they COULD, rather than it was easy, immigrating across the desert, dealing with rapists, drug lords and violence is not luck() (and I know about open borders, my homeland has an issue with genuine terrorists invading and bombing schoolhouses), is not .. fair. Who gives a poo poo if it's fair? If you don't think that there was a lot of 'luck 'involved in getting citizenship for anyone I don't know what to tell you. quote:But I have a unique perspective, since we managed to immigrate here, after losing a civil war (Biafra), and we managed to get to the middle class without stealing social security numbers or working under the table. You get that working under the table is something that's bad for those workers, right? It's not like "Sweet, I'm under the table", it's "gently caress I have to be under the table so I don't get deported." Right?
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Jul 26, 2014 01:24
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Ryand-Smith posted:Visa lotto? As in the DV lottery lottery? Yes. The lottery. The thing which is a lottery, which is luck. I'm not sure what's confusing you there. quote:You also never addressed my point about stealing SSNs, which IS a criminal offense, and the fact that while being here illegally is a civil crime, ENTERING the nation illegally IS. I really don't give that much of a poo poo. The social number 'theft' means that they pay money into social security without taking stuff out, for the most part. It's a symptom of a problem, not some devious evil scheme these undocumented aliens came up with because they want to do it that way. Entering the nation illegally is a very minor crime for a reason, because it happens for completely understandable and even laudable reasons. quote:The luck point is pretty amusing, since our village had been planning the US immigration effort since the 1950s when we were still a colony of the British, but please, tell me how years of planning, studying, and research is 'luck'. You had the funds and ability to do that research instead of, say, laboring in a diamond mine all day long while being illiterate. Seriously, stop and think about things for a few minutes. Your family had it tough and overcame things. Does that mean that things would be better if everyone had it as tough as you do? Or if people had it easier than you did? If what you experienced was a long and arduous process, why is it a bad thing to ease that process for other people? Is it just because they're not you, so you don't want things to be better for them because you don't want people who aren't you getting things you didn't?
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Jul 26, 2014 02:43
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