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DentedLamp posted:Garrus is overrated. FTFY.
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Jul 21, 2014 04:25
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Green Intern posted:I agree. It felt so hamfisted to have the kid run away from Shepard to start with, then get exploded by a Reaper. It's just laying it on so thick when there's clearly enough devastation going on to make it clear that Earth is totally boned. This is a good example of one of the more subtle things about the game that thankfully isn't constantly present. That whole thing makes me roll my eyes during the intro on the basis of that from a storytelling standpoint, killing off a child is a pretty cheap way of trying build emotion and is doubly cheap when it's not even a character we really know or care about. Like you said, we get enough information that Earth is boned through things like the Reapers blowing up the Earth council, them frying London in the distance, and blowing up an enormous ship to understand that they're kind of bad news.
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Jul 21, 2014 04:39
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He got 'reaped.
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Jul 21, 2014 04:45
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Edit: Wait, why do I care? Go nuts.
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Jul 21, 2014 04:48
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I think another part of the problem with not being able to identify with the fact that this is Earth, Where You Keep Your poo poo, getting blown up, is the fact that you don't even really fight through the city. You're fighting through a generic office building and a bunch of downed ships, the city is just an indistinct mass on the horizon. You could replace it with any skybox from any other game, practically speaking, because all you're seeing is a series of interconnected gray boxes. It'd be a lot more effective if you were doing a few minutes of real urban warfare, ducking into people's houses and all that, random personal effects of the people who once lived there strewn about. Empty food boxes, a computer, random knickknacks, children's toys, stuff like that - make it look real lived in. Overturn a dude's couch and use it as cover for a firefight, the building gets zapped and it all goes up in flame. It wouldn't make you weep or anything, but it'd at least create a response. The environments you fight through in this intro look so sterile that it's hard to identify it as a place people actually lived. It looks more like a doctor's office than anything. Endorph fucked around with this message at 04:56 on Jul 21, 2014 |
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Jul 21, 2014 04:49
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Wrex being dead is never the correct choice. Ever.
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Jul 21, 2014 04:52
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Lt. Danger posted:
PS:  Seriously though, playing this game is like cuckolding yourself. There are some things that are really good about this game, gems of awesome rife and hidden throughout it, but this game is loving it.
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Jul 21, 2014 05:00
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Aces High posted:I want to go into a bit of detail about something you talked about towards the end of the video, talking about the choice of Vancouver as the place where Shepard's tribunal is taking place. You talk about how it doesn't have the same emotional effect nor does it communicate that Earth is under attack the way Independence Day does or the mention of other more publicly known major cities in the Quake 2 intro. I can understand how if Shepard is in Washington DC and the White House is destroyed that the player would think "holy poo poo, they're really here on Earth, it's actually happening" but I feel that I prefer the decor and background to be a little more unknown for a few reasons. That's fair enough - there are advantages to genericising the city, like you say. I think Endorph is right in that a series of empty roofs is a really bad way to suggest "you're in a city", and that hurts more than anything. I wouldn't say Mass Effect/Bioware in general are above a bit of cheese, but ME3 is probably the first to turn it into full melodrama - Mordin's song, Legion's question.
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Jul 21, 2014 09:23
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Oh cool, you're doing another LP. I really liked your neverwinter ones. These sort of analytical LP aren't very common but I like them a lot. Plus, I quite like Mass Effect 3 (aside from the ending and a few other choices like how the quarian/geth conflict is represented) So i'll be interested to see what you think.
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Jul 21, 2014 13:50
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I'll be following this LP since the NWN2 ones were so good eventhough we are missing some beloved characters for this ME3 run. Your videos are fine but it's a bit weird to have you talk during cutscenes and shutup during the shooty parts. People new to the series might get a bit lost trying to follow what's going on.
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Jul 21, 2014 15:30
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I'm very interested in this LP. Mass Effect was one of the games I couldn't play when it came out due to having an ancient PC, and when I tried after upgrading, it just bored the hell out of me. Not enough variability in combat, copy/pasted dungeons that only differed in what doors were locked and what open (to this day, I have no idea how Bioware managed to get away with that) and a really generic SF plot with the same cast of characters as every single Bioware game since KOTOR. I just couldn't bring myself to finish it and didn't even bother trying the sequels which supposedly improved on the lovely gameplay. Basically it's the perfect "you play it so I don't have to" game now. Plus I loved your NWN2 LP and the way it turned its boring and padded plot into a good read, so here's hoping for another one. edit: Come to think of it, another reason why I disliked the first game so much might be that the Reaper plot is straight out of Alastair Reynolds, except with way less interesting universe and way shittier writing. anilEhilated fucked around with this message at 20:51 on Jul 21, 2014 |
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Jul 21, 2014 16:37
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I would say at the end of the day I did actually like Mass Effect 3. I do feel things could have been done differently to make it a better game. I just don't believe that makes ME3 a bad game though. Obviously the ending was bad and felt way to deus ex machina. Cerberus could have been handled as an enemy much better, they just come off as 'worst then hitler' a bit to much. Some parts of a game play toke a step froward with things like gun selection. Other gameplay elements toke a step back, very similar enemies, removing the whole shield/armor/health from ME2. Also I felt they never really figured out biotics, you tend to just spam your same basic ones(besides the vanguard which improved). There are a list of other small grips I could say. Overall though I can't say it was a bad game, just sort of unfulfilling.
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Jul 21, 2014 17:53
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CasinoV posted:Cerberus could have been handled as an enemy much better, they just come off as 'worst then hitler' a bit to much. So, they returned to their ME1 roots?
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Jul 21, 2014 17:57
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Wrex, Mordin AND Legion? This is truly the darkest timeline.
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Jul 21, 2014 18:19
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Never played this game, so far enjoying this lp. I was surprised at how critical you were in the video given that in the opening of the thread you didn't want the thread to turn into a ME3-bashing thread. Uhhhh... when are you going to get to the part where you start talking about how the haters are wrong? Never played any of the series, actually. Don't own a console, and computer not good enough.
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Jul 21, 2014 18:34
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Straight no-import going by comments? I pity this timeline.
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Jul 21, 2014 19:11
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CountFosco posted:Never played this game, so far enjoying this lp. I was surprised at how critical you were in the video given that in the opening of the thread you didn't want the thread to turn into a ME3-bashing thread. Uhhhh... when are you going to get to the part where you start talking about how the haters are wrong? Well, to be fair, this is just the opening tutorial in a pretty big game, so it's hardly far-reaching criticism. UrbicaMortis fucked around with this message at 21:57 on Jul 21, 2014 |
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Jul 21, 2014 19:46
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I'm one that falls into the enjoyment side of things. From start to finish, I more or less enjoyed the heck out of this series. Despite the horrible mass of random things that was the first one's inventory system and the just plain silly Mako sections. Two was, for me, definitely the better of the three. And I was just as annoyed as the rest with the ending of the third. But this was, to my poor memory, one of the only games of it's time that embraced, across the series, having choices factor into the later games. This and Dragon Age, another Bioware game. I was never one to pay a huge amount of attention to the details. At least, not in so much as letting the small stuff bog down my enjoyment. Most of the arguments about what is wrong with the tutorial, in my opinion, are small things. Of course, not everyone has the same sensibilities as I when it comes to those details. All the same, I look forward to your viewpoints. You've already suggested a few things I hadn't thought of and I hope to have more tidbits like that come up. I may even delve back into the game for the.. third time? I think so.
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Jul 21, 2014 20:00
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Yeah, the story this in this game is one thing but even completely disregarding that it does a pretty good job of being an Actual Good Videogame in the Actual Playable Bits. And then there's the multiplayer. The multiplayer redeems this game for a lot of people. Manguard 4 Lyfe™.
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Jul 21, 2014 20:09
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Honestly I thought that ME3 was the best video game that I ever played. The ending was obviously bad, which soured most players on the game as a whole, but pretty much everything leading up to it was fantastic. Also about Captain Anderson as the first human spectre candidate: there's a line in ME1 where he says Saren blew up a factory on their spectre testing mission or whatever, anyway the blast killed a bunch of innocents, and Anderson took the fall because Saren was untouchable as the council's favorite spectre. This whole thing was described in great detail in the first Mass Effect novel, Mass Effect: Revelation. I can put together an effort post about the books later if people are interested. I read them all a handful of years ago, minus the fourth one.
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Jul 21, 2014 20:28
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When mass effect one first came out and I played it... IT BLEW MY MIND!!!! I know some people found it a bit janky but that's never bothered me in games. It was just so special and unique. Then mass effect two came along and it was clearly not a bold step forward but a producer backed mass market step towards homogeneity. I was outraged. Then mass effect three came along and I was actually enjoying myself a lot. I never gave a crud about having an ending. I grew up playing games where the ending was just a score screen. If I had dozens of hours of fun, I had dozens of hours of fun. Edit: All the stuff about the kid in the opening makes so little sense to me... when I played mass effect three I just assumed the kid was all in Shepard's mind. It was a form of PTSD that Shepard was suffering after seeing so much heavy combat. It literally never occurred to me Bioware was stupid enough to pull that poo poo. namad fucked around with this message at 21:03 on Jul 21, 2014 |
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Jul 21, 2014 20:55
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Fedule posted:Yeah, the story this in this game is one thing but even completely disregarding that it does a pretty good job of being an Actual Good Videogame in the Actual Playable Bits. And then there's the multiplayer. The multiplayer redeems this game for a lot of people. Manguard 4 Lyfe™. This is also truth. I played the MP a lot more than the actual game, once I finished my campaign. My buddies and I had a hell of a time dashing about blowing people up with our brains and yelling at each other on headsets. I was truly, genuinely astonished at how much fun the MP was.
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Jul 21, 2014 20:59
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Yeah, I was playing the MP for a good year after it came out thanks to the semi-frequent patches. I went into ME3 positive that the MP was going to be a complete waste of time and then it turned into the best part of a really good game.
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Jul 21, 2014 21:38
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another question that I suppose may get answered in the next update but are you playing the game using the "action-oriented" option? It was either that or you were very good at editing out the dialogue boxes. Heck for all I know you just did that for the prologue to show it as a more dynamic video instead of getting stopped every couple of minutes for dialogue prompts  It wouldn't be much of a Bioware game (or a Mass Effect game) if we don't get to see those lovely dialogue wheels
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Jul 21, 2014 21:53
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ME3 probably has the best combat and character writing of the three games, but it definitely has the worst overall plot. That said, an adept specced for maximum force and damage with Lash is an amazing rear end in a top hat physics pinball machine.
Kurieg fucked around with this message at 02:06 on Jul 22, 2014 |
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Jul 22, 2014 02:04
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Kurieg posted:ME3 probably has the best combat and character writing of the three games, but it definitely has the worst overall plot. That said, an adept specced for maximum force and damage with Lash is an amazing rear end in a top hat physics pinball machine. It is true. The gameplay and character writing consistently improved while the overall story took a nosedive during the finale of ME2 and crashed in ME3.
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Jul 22, 2014 02:22
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I hate ME3. It and Dragon Age 2 killed any desire to play Bioware games again. I will say that ME3 has some amazing moments, the only problem is they're in a game that doesn't deserve them. I will admit I cried at some points during this game because a trilogy like this connects you with the characters in the same way a movie or book series can. The extended ending DLC did help to mitigate some of that initial hate but in the end, I was fooled twice by Bioware, I don't feel like getting fooled again. Either way, I'm enjoying your LP so far.
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Jul 22, 2014 03:10
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ME3 was a pretty drat good game and I'm excited to watch this LP. Interesting you're starting here with the default character/plot settings rather than doing 1&2 (or even just importing a playthrough of those from "off-camera"), but I'm on board anyhow! I like your commentary so far. ME3 really got the ending it needed for its characters with the Citadel DLC, and the Extended Cut fixes most of the plot ending, so really the only sour note I have left about the end of the game is no awesome final boss fight, but that's not a huge deal.
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Jul 22, 2014 05:29
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Just because Mordin, Wrex and Legion are dead in the default settings doesn't necessarily mean that their death is canon. Or at least, that's not how I've taken it. I've always considered it an incentive to to a perfect run. (Mordin is almost definitely canon-dead though.)
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Jul 22, 2014 10:07
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Hedrigall posted:ME3 was a pretty drat good game and I'm excited to watch this LP. Interesting you're starting here with the default character/plot settings rather than doing 1&2 (or even just importing a playthrough of those from "off-camera"), but I'm on board anyhow! I like your commentary so far. I played a vanguard, so the final battle to me was running up to all those banshees and punching/dodging until they gave up the ghost. Was pretty epic to me, because I refused to play a more cautious style where i wasn't blitzing all over the battlefield. One thing about the kid dying... Yes it's ham handed. But the last time I can remember Shepard NOT being able to save one was all the way back in the original Mass Effect when you had to make your choice between Kaiden and Ashley. I think beyond personalizing the death and destruction the point is to show that Shepard can't save everyone. Put me in the category of people who really liked the game, though I haven't replayed it since it came out. There was enough that made the game great (final bro-down with Garrus, for example) that allowed me to try and ignore the ending... which was great right up until after the showdown with the illusive man.
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Jul 22, 2014 11:11
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JT Jag posted:Just because Mordin, Wrex and Legion are dead in the default settings doesn't necessarily mean that their death is canon. Or at least, that's not how I've taken it. I've always considered it an incentive to to a perfect run. ME2 states that he only has a few years left to live, so yeah, I guess he is Same with Thane, but that's not as funny. Besides, the only true canon is the one that occurred during my playthrough and I'll fight anyone who says otherwise 
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Jul 22, 2014 12:54
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Hedrigall posted:ME3 really got the ending it needed for its characters with the Citadel DLC, and the Extended Cut fixes most of the plot ending, so really the only sour note I have left about the end of the game is no awesome final boss fight, but that's not a huge deal. Citadel had the game's real final boss fight, and it was absolutely amazing as a vanguard.
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Jul 22, 2014 13:24
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habeasdorkus posted:I played a vanguard, so the final battle to me was running up to all those banshees and punching/dodging until they gave up the ghost. Was pretty epic to me, because I refused to play a more cautious style where i wasn't blitzing all over the battlefield. Maybe, but the fact that not only was it is child who died, but the one child to ever exist in the entire series (we'll see what passes for other "youths" later) instead of someone Shepard (or the player) actually cares about just made it kind of insulting. Worse, it disregards some very major events we saw that should be haunting Shepard, like killing 300,000 people just to delay the Reapers last game or abandoning someone on Virmire in the first game, in favor of the lowest common denominator. Which will be something of a theme in this game's "emotional" scenes. The game is actually pretty good, just nowhere near as good as it would have been if the writers weren't so rushed and scrambled. Say, by giving them an extra 18 months to wrap it all up properly, or at least extend it to another game so they could end it when they were ready instead of sticking to a trilogy for no reason. The ending kind of soured me on the rest of it, so I'm not as forgiving on other issues as I could be. Geostomp fucked around with this message at 14:33 on Jul 22, 2014 |
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Jul 22, 2014 14:26
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As I'm importing a save, I don't have a choice - it's RPG all the way. There just aren't many dialogue wheels in the opening section (or throughout the game, really).Geostomp posted:Worse, it disregards some very major events we saw that should be haunting Shepard, like killing 300,000 people just to delay the Reapers last game or abandoning someone on Virmire in the first game, in favor of the lowest common denominator. Which will be something of a theme in this game's "emotional" scenes. It is an incredibly clumsy and ham-handed scene, but I see three advantages to the vent-child: 1) Everyone sees it and remembers it. Players may not have played Arrival or may have forgotten/moved on from Virmire. 2) The child has a face, unlike the 300,000 batarians - without whom the galaxy is better off anyway 3) The child has no agency - Ashley/Kaidan/the ME2 team all made a choice to risk their lives, but the child is purely a victim. Arguably the child isn't 'for' Shepard-as-a-character, but for Shepard-as-a-player. Shepard proper is probably thinking of friends, family and other soldiers, but their faces wouldn't mean anything to us players.
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Jul 22, 2014 14:49
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or in the case of Virmire I think most people just chose their "lesser of two evils" from two fairly lame characters and moved on. Yes it is meant to be a "big deal" that you have to sacrifice Kaiden or Ashley but man consensus I have seen is that both of them kinda suck when compared to Wrex or Garrus (or in my case Tali but I'm not one of those Tali fans, let's keep this place clean of that poo poo)
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Jul 22, 2014 18:23
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Kaiden had the personality of a plank of wood, and Ashley is a one-note Space Racist, so yes they are both pretty terrible and I wouldn't feel bad about nobody caring about which of them were left behind to die.
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Jul 22, 2014 18:30
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I didn't find a single likable character in the entire cast of ME1. Closest was a tolerable Garrus. Yeah, I really didn't enjoy that game.
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Jul 22, 2014 18:32
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I like Mass Effect. The ending was a tonal shift, but not unheard of in science fiction. I can totally see how other people would not like it, though. I'll have more to say when the time comes. I'm enjoying this thread so far, good work everyone. EDIT: Green Intern posted:Kaiden had the personality of a plank of wood, and Ashley is a one-note Space Racist, so yes they are both pretty terrible and I wouldn't feel bad about nobody caring about which of them were left behind to die. I don't know, A lot of the aliens are pretty racist too. I don't think Ashley is out of line being aware of the galactic situation. She's no warrior-philopspher or anything. CAPT. Rainbowbeard fucked around with this message at 18:45 on Jul 22, 2014 |
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Jul 22, 2014 18:40
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CAPT. Rainbowbeard posted:I don't know, A lot of the aliens are pretty racist too. I don't think Ashley is out of line being aware of the galactic situation. She's no warrior-philopspher or anything. Mass Effect: Space Racists Everywhere.
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Jul 22, 2014 19:36
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Green Intern posted:Mass Effect: Space Racists Everywhere. You humans are all racist!
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