|
Edit: update on previous page. On the comment of the quarians never truly crossing beyond moral ambiguity, there's something from the cut/older content that I feel needs bringing up, if only to better see the thought process behind this arc. Spoilered because I believe it necessitates it: There was originally going to be a mission where Shepard has to go up against Admiral Xen, as she's the mission's villain (big shock). She preforms illegal experiments on the geth and ends up trying to take over the Citadel using advanced AI something or rather to force control over the geth with it. However, she also ends up preforming experiments on other organics and ruthlessly pursing some sort of edge to stopping the Reapers, no matter the civilian casualties. This was planned to happen after, or even DURING the Rannoch arc. Xen rambles over Shepard betraying the quarians by stopping the war with the geth/not letting the quarians take over the geth, and in the end has to be put down. Now, why do I think this deserves mention? Because a number of the things it brings up, I believe, shows that Bioware first intended for the player to be able to make peace with the quarians and geth. It also shows that they planned to have a quarian finally cross that line into true "villainy" (even if the player had no sympathies for synthetics, Xen was killing innocent people without a hint of remorse) purely for reasons of re-enslaving the geth. Peace between them is the optimal path; death of either seems to imply that this mission would have a much harder time coming up, and when it does it shows that trying to break the peace, even as a means of stopping the Reapers, is something only the insane would attempt.
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2014 20:20
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 28, 2024 04:53 |
|
|
So, remember earlier when I said that the whole Cerberus plot arc was just a series of contrivances bundled together so that you have things to arbitrarily shoot at? The Geth didn't want to be outdone, so we've now got an even stupider, even more contrived reason for you to dick about doing stuff that isn't fighting Reapers. Shepard is somehow informed that the key to winning the war is not the state-of-the-art Turian battle fleet but is instead a bunch of 300-year-old obsolete hillbilly garbage named after dick jokes. Having arrived, the leaders of said hillbillies meet on Shepard's ship for no reason and have an argument in front of an alien stranger as to whether it was a cool and good idea to launch a war they can't win during an existential threat to the entire galaxy. It's at this point you realise how little agency the player character is actually given in the game, since any rational Space Murderer would already be turning the ship around and leaving the idiots to do idiot things. Instead you go directly along with the idiots' plan, because it's needed for a later plot point. They then respond by trying to kill you, with the paragon option is to do nothing, and the renegade option to punch the Admiral once and then go on following his plan (because this is still needed for a later plot point). All of this should be seen in the context that there's literally a full mission in ME2 where you go onto a Geth ship and liberate the Geth from Reaper domination. This is ignored completely here... because that would make it slightly harder to do the plot point they want to do later. Which again speaks to the idea that Bioware clearly didn't have the idea while they were making ME2 that they'd end up here, showing an irrelevant war between two irrelevant factions at the edge of the galaxy and trying to pretend that Shepard is heavily emotionally invested in the outcome, despite the endgame strongly implying that whatever happens here is of no real consequence either way.
|
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2014 00:00
|
|
|
FullLeatherJacket posted:All of this should be seen in the context that there's literally a full mission in ME2 where you go onto a Geth ship and liberate the Geth from Reaper domination. This is ignored completely here... because that would make it slightly harder to do the plot point they want to do later. Which again speaks to the idea that Bioware clearly didn't have the idea while they were making ME2 that they'd end up here, showing an irrelevant war between two irrelevant factions at the edge of the galaxy and trying to pretend that Shepard is heavily emotionally invested in the outcome, despite the endgame strongly implying that whatever happens here is of no real consequence either way. To be fair, I think they do address it briefly by having Shepard go, "What the hell guys, I already fixed this poo poo." The repetition of past mistakes kind of works with the premise that Shepard is really fighting the galaxy and the status quo rather than the reapers. I can't really hate on ME for having people make the same dumb mistakes over and over again either when you can just look at our history. NATO and the Warsaw pact happened within a lifetime of WWI after all.
|
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2014 00:52
|
|
|
Yeah it's kind of addressed by Shep saying "what the heck Legion, y'all didn't wanna join the reapers, virus or no?" And Legion plainly states that the attacking Quarians gave the Geth no choice when the Reapers offered to help them. The Quarians attacked because characters acting less than 100% rationally is not a plot hole. I'm really irked by the constant claim that "nothing you do in Mass Effect REALLY matters because one optional loyalty mission doesn't completely alter the entire second act of the following game" or whatever because it's a completely unreasonable request from a developmental perspective at the very least. I got the most out of the series by engaging with the story and characters instead of constantly trying to prove I'm smarter than it by boring plot holes into the thing. The thousands of little differences made everything for me and replaying the whole series recently made me rethink what I considered the most satisfying ending to be. I like this thread a lot because Lt. Danger is doing pretty much the opposite sort of playthrough I could ever stand doing (lots of Renegade choices make me feel bad) and I still agree with most of his points, especially about the setting and the importance of the Reapers as anything more than a catalyst (heh) for everyone to get their millennia-old poo poo together. This is a really neat, ambitious thread.
|
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2014 01:06
|
|
|
Don't forget that the geth have a buttload of dreadnaughts. A literal buttload. And the quarians' ships, while old, have been mantained by the galaxy's local tech experts. They look like poo poo but they work just fine. And the migrant fleet is ALSO a buttload of ships, which would prove crucial in mantaining suply lines and scouting efforts. An amicable solution to the crisis would bring a sizable force to Shepard's fleet.
|
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2014 01:35
|
|
grimlock_master posted:A literal buttload. So you are saying the Geth fleet is poo poo? 
|
|
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2014 02:36
|
|
|
grimlock_master posted:Don't forget that the geth have a buttload of dreadnaughts. A literal buttload. And the quarians' ships, while old, have been mantained by the galaxy's local tech experts. They look like poo poo but they work just fine. And the migrant fleet is ALSO a buttload of ships, which would prove crucial in mantaining suply lines and scouting efforts. An amicable solution to the crisis would bring a sizable force to Shepard's fleet. Less than a fifth of the geth fleet was enough to hold off the entire Citadel defense force before Sovereign came in to steamroll them and the quarians haven't managed to keep the largest organic-owned fleet in the galaxy functional for centuries without expert technicians and a lot of big guns. If it weren't for the quarians deciding that doomsday was the best time to make their big play for Rannoch, both sides would have been willing to add their much needed fire and manpower to the effort. Unfortunately, since Bioware would be damned if they didn't shoehorn in every single plot point for this game, the quarians decided to be belligerent idiots and make their big play right as doomsday came.
|
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2014 04:12
|
|
|
I was pretty pissed when I got to this mission on a Dead-Legion save and ran into a geth platform which was identical to Legion. It's the laziest thing, nothing changes in this mission, not even Legion's model. At least Urdnot and !Mordin have something different to say and aren't visually the same as who they've replaced. That alone definitely contributes to the feeling of a last-minute "poo poo, we need to payoff the quarian/geth conflict now" fumble.
|
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2014 04:31
|
|
|
Blade_of_tyshalle posted:I was pretty pissed when I got to this mission on a Dead-Legion save and ran into a geth platform which was identical to Legion. It's the laziest thing, nothing changes in this mission, not even Legion's model. At least Urdnot and !Mordin have something different to say and aren't visually the same as who they've replaced. That alone definitely contributes to the feeling of a last-minute "poo poo, we need to payoff the quarian/geth conflict now" fumble. I dunno, we never really talk to any Geth other than Legion unless he gets himself killed; what if almost Geth are basically like Legion? They are a body independent collective consciousness; a type of intelligence that literally does not exist in reality. It seems plausible to me that from our perspective any individual Geth would seem about the same as any other Geth, especially since they tend to act collectively as part of a consensus rather than individually. Even Legion isn't actually a single being remember; he's thousands of non-sentient beings acting together as a sentient collective.
|
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2014 05:57
|
|
|
Neruz posted:Even Legion isn't actually a single being remember; he's thousands of non-sentient beings acting together as a sentient collective. Aren't we all, man?
|
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2014 06:25
|
|
|
Earnestly posted:Aren't we all, man? Nope, we're millions, and our neurons can't transfer themselves into different bodies to make entirely new gestalt minds.
|
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2014 07:17
|
|
|
"Everyones favorite body pillow Tali" hahaha funny poo poo man I also don't feel the Genophage arc was a clear cut the Krogans are victims. The Salarians were acting immorally perhaps but i believe that in the context of the setting you could argue they did what was needed and right. What moral and what's right are not always the same. Or at least thats what being a citizen of the United States has led me to believe. Sneaky Fast fucked around with this message at 10:15 on Nov 4, 2014 |
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2014 09:36
|
|
|
Neruz posted:Even Legion isn't actually a single being remember; he's thousands of non-sentient beings acting together as a sentient collective. Right, he's something like 1,183 instances of geth.exe running on the same computer. What I meant was more about how the character model is identical. Assuming Legion died in the Suicide Mission, his body is gone. So why is !Legion physically identical? Legion was a stock geth body which added N7 armour in some weird attempt to be more Shep-like and later ate a huge bullet to the torso. It's just weird to see an identical copy of Legion and hand-wave it with "ah, this is a VI construct of Legion" as if that explains it all. Why would the geth create a holographic copy of him or whatever the gently caress? They're not exactly sentimental by anything we've seen thus far in the series. It's just a poorly devised alternate scenario, and it bugs the crap out of me. They just could not figure out an alternate scenario compensating for Legion's death, so we get Legion returning with a couple of lines about how he isn't really Legion, but he looks the same, talks the same, and performs all the same tasks in the same way. He's Legion. It feels as stupid and worthless as the rachni queen bit earlier, where no matter what you've done in the previous games you always wind up hunting down a Reaperized rachni queen because Bioware had to include that specific unit type.
|
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2014 13:58
|
|
|
Blade_of_tyshalle posted:Right, he's something like 1,183 instances of geth.exe running on the same computer. What I meant was more about how the character model is identical. Assuming Legion died in the Suicide Mission, his body is gone. So why is !Legion physically identical? Legion was a stock geth body which added N7 armour in some weird attempt to be more Shep-like and later ate a huge bullet to the torso. It's just weird to see an identical copy of Legion and hand-wave it with "ah, this is a VI construct of Legion" as if that explains it all. Why would the geth create a holographic copy of him or whatever the gently caress? They're not exactly sentimental by anything we've seen thus far in the series. Oh hah I hadn't even noticed the N7 stuff, yeah no excuse for that. Should be a stock Geth.
|
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2014 18:01
|
|
|
Shepard will also refer to it as legion, even if you never activated it and immediately shipped it off to the iMan.
|
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2014 19:05
|
|
|
Kurieg posted:Shepard will also refer to it as legion, even if you never activated it and immediately shipped it off to the iMan. That's funny considering that Legion shows up in the Cerberus base if you did that.
|
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2014 19:18
|
|
|
It's more the fact that it doesn't even think about giving itself a name until prompted by Shepard, and EDI is the one who names it. Two events that literally could not happen if Shepard did the thing.
|
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2014 20:30
|
|
|
On the other hand Legion is one of the best characters in the game so you have to be pretty dedicated to not want him around as much as possible. Geth do not infiltrate 
|
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2014 20:39
|
|
|
it's called a FailShep run, son, which is kinda tricky to pull off if you want to survive to ME3
|
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2014 20:58
|
|
|
Aces High posted:it's called a FailShep run, son, which is kinda tricky to pull off if you want to survive to ME3 Oh I know people do it I just don't understand how anyone can have fun deliberately playing as a failure. But entertainment is probably the most subjective thing that exists so 
|
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2014 21:00
|
|
|
well I remember in the early days of ME3 there was someone in the Games thread that had completed something like 50 different playthroughs of both ME1 and 2 and he kept talking about how much fun he honestly had going back and finding different things. I know when I first played through the trilogy I did all Paragon (with occasional Renegade interrupts in 2 and 3 because shooting assholes is fun) as default male Shep because, well that's the "right way" to play it yeah? The "right" LI is shacking up with Liara, but then I went back through to start a few other characters with different styles, like a more pragmatic, no-nonsense Shep, or a Space Racist Shep. I would definitely say that the idea of playing the trilogy 40 times in 40 different ways may not appeal to everybody but it sounds like fun to me 
|
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2014 21:10
|
|
|
Sneaky Fast posted:"Everyones favorite body pillow Tali" hahaha funny poo poo man Thanks buddy. Which game are you talking about? Yeah, sure, you can justify the genophage easily, but I'm not talking about it as an ethical dilemma in a vacuum. What I'm talking about is how it's presented to us across the series, and in ME3 you've really got to work at it to get a 'balanced' scenario, let alone a case where the genophage is clearly the correct option. Very different to ME2.
|
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2014 21:17
|
|
|
FoolyCharged posted:To be fair, I think they do address it briefly by having Shepard go, "What the hell guys, I already fixed this poo poo." The repetition of past mistakes kind of works with the premise that Shepard is really fighting the galaxy and the status quo rather than the reapers. I can't really hate on ME for having people make the same dumb mistakes over and over again either when you can just look at our history. NATO and the Warsaw pact happened within a lifetime of WWI after all. I would say this would be a pretty interesting way to approach it, if they'd taken the time to explore it as a plot point. Instead, it becomes glaringly obvious from the way that they gloss over it that you're supposed to forget that you may have ended the second game having reprogrammed the geth and being best buds with the Illusive Man, but none of those things are considered relevant to this game. In truth, a lot of this arc would be far, far better if they'd simply been able to give the story the time, depth and exploration it deserves instead of trying to explain, illustrate and resolve a multi-generational conflict in the space of ~3 hours purely for the sake of not leaving anything in the game universe open. The idea of the Quarian fleet is similar. It's not that you couldn't make an argument as to why Shepard would want it, but it shouldn't be up to the player to fill in the gaps between ME1/ME2, where every reference to the migrant fleet is as a floating junkyard and the status-quo for 300 years has been that the Quarians can't outmatch the Geth conventionally, and ME3, where the migrant fleet is important enough to get yourself blown up for and the Geth have to accept help from the Reapers in order to not be obliterated within hours. The whole thing comes off as lazily written and not in keeping with the narrative of the first two games, even before you start to look at the idea of the Geth in ME2 against the ideas that come up later in this ME3 arc.
|
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2014 22:05
|
|
|
FullLeatherJacket posted:The idea of the Quarian fleet is similar. It's not that you couldn't make an argument as to why Shepard would want it, but it shouldn't be up to the player to fill in the gaps between ME1/ME2, where every reference to the migrant fleet is as a floating junkyard and the status-quo for 300 years has been that the Quarians can't outmatch the Geth conventionally, and ME3, where the migrant fleet is important enough to get yourself blown up for and the Geth have to accept help from the Reapers in order to not be obliterated within hours. The whole thing comes off as lazily written and not in keeping with the narrative of the first two games, even before you start to look at the idea of the Geth in ME2 against the ideas that come up later in this ME3 arc. Xen and Tali's Dad were doing a ton of very illegal research in secret over the last 3 years. Which gave them a leg up on the Geth, particularly the non-heretic Geth who weren't prepared for open combat. They also ambushed them and blew up the main server that was designed to house all the entirety of the Geth and created a weapon that was custom tailored to exploit the way that Geth function. There are a couple of exchanges between Shepard and Real-Legion about it that basically boil down to the Geth Panicking and taking the reapers up on their offer without really thinking about the long term consequences. Because any survival was preferable to extinction.
|
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2014 22:17
|
|
|
FullLeatherJacket posted:I would say this would be a pretty interesting way to approach it, if they'd taken the time to explore it as a plot point. Instead, it becomes glaringly obvious from the way that they gloss over it that you're supposed to forget that you may have ended the second game having reprogrammed the geth and being best buds with the Illusive Man, but none of those things are considered relevant to this game. Are you sure about this? I think you're misremembering a lot of the previous games. Tali's loyalty mission in ME2 is pretty clear that the migrant fleet is squaring up to fight the geth. ME1 describes the flotilla as the only group of ships large enough to carry out a planetary evacuation. I'm not sure where 'floating junkyard' comes from. As mentioned, reprogramming the heretic geth (a fraction of the actual geth population) is largely separate to the later geth decision, born of the 'ruthless calculus of war', to ally with the Reapers. And ME2 always ends with Shepard breaking with TIM. TIM is the villain and the conflict is over Shepard's soul. Shepard rejects TIM, either because of moral concerns or because TIM can't be trusted to back Shepard up.
|
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2014 23:00
|
|
|
Lt. Danger posted:I'm not sure where 'floating junkyard' comes from. Not really "Powerful armada" material. ME3 handwaves it with the Quarians going "We've strapped guns on everything!".
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2014 00:09
|
|
|
Yeah its talked about in passing multiple times in the game and repeatedly in the codex that the Migrant fleet is the single largest and most powerful space fleet in Citadel space; it's just that it doesn't get involved in fighting because they also have lots of civilian ships to protect. They don't make a huge fuss about it until it becomes relevant in ME3 though so I can understand people not realizing that was the case.Raygereio posted:The migrant fleet was previously described as consisting of 300+ year old ship from before Quarian-Geth war, cheap ships the Quarians have managed to purchase and salvaged ships. All kept running with constant repairs and with scrap & second hand replacement parts. You're thinking in too human terms; until the Humans arrive Citadel Space tech has been pretty stable for the last ~1000 years. 300+ year old ships aren't as great as modern ships sure, but they're still huge and still have plenty of room to put guns on and there's way more of them than anyone else has because they're carrying around an entire world's population. Neruz fucked around with this message at 00:12 on Nov 5, 2014 |
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2014 00:10
|
|
|
Until ME3 I don't think the Migrant Fleet was ever described as powerful. But I'll admit I might be remembering that wrong.Neruz posted:You're thinking in too human terms; until the Humans arrive Citadel Space tech has been pretty stable for the last ~1000 years. 300+ year old ships aren't as great as modern ships sure, but they're still huge and still have plenty of room to put guns on and there's way more of them than anyone else has because they're carrying around an entire world's population. Also the majority of the flotilla were supposed to be non-combat vessels. The idea that if you strap some guns to a really big ship that previously served as a nursery and to grow food inside, you'll somehow end up with an effective dreadnought-class ship is bit silly. And no: Shep saying "Wow, that's really stupid of you" didn't make it less silly for me. But then I suppose Mass Effect never really thought the whole space combat thing through.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2014 00:30
|
|
|
It won't be as effective as a purpose-built military ship sure, but quantity has a quality of its own and in the ME universe 'quality' mostly just means 'more mass, more energy, more efficient' There's also hints that the Quarians have been covertly arming their ships for a very long time too, they didn't just suddenly start taping guns to the hulls when the Reapers turned up; they've been stealthily trying to arm themselves to go to war with the Geth. The Migrant Fleet isn't described as threatening but the codex often notes that it is a lot of ships and many of them are really big and thus the fleet as a whole is potentially quite potent. The fact that the Fleet deliberately avoids other Citadel races from looking at it too closely also suggests that a lot of those so called 'civilian' ships were never anything of the sort; the Quarians have been planning to go to war with the Geth ever since they got kicked off of their homeworld. Neruz fucked around with this message at 01:18 on Nov 5, 2014 |
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2014 01:15
|
|
|
Doesn't the codex say that the Quarian flotilla ships (and most other warships) have been retrofitted with the same kinds of guns you use in ME2 to blow up the Collector ship? Not that such an upgrade is reflected in the cutscenes, but it would be a pretty major increase in power over what they had before.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2014 06:03
|
|
|
Even if the Migrant Fleet is the biggest fleet in the galaxy, you still have to agree with the one Admiral that you don't just send your life ships in on the first wave. Like holy poo poo I know the Quarians want their home back badly but I'm pretty drat sure most of those people living on those ships (likely children or other non-combatants) are none to pleased about being on the frontline.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2014 08:25
|
|
|
If I remember correctly, Joker and Shepard make a number of remarks on those exact points, calling out the quarian admiral's flagrant stupidity in this matter. Even if they have the best guns available most of those ships are barely better than interstellar RVs and schoolbuses.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2014 09:45
|
|
|
Neruz posted:The Migrant Fleet isn't described as threatening but the codex often notes that it is a lot of ships and many of them are really big and thus the fleet as a whole is potentially quite potent. If I reinforce the chassis of a Volkswagen Beetle enough, I could duct-tape the turret of a M1 Abrams on top of it. But it's not going to move with anything resembling speed and will probably collapse after a single shot. Even a large number of these is not going to be a threat to a real tank in a straight up fight. If you manage to get the drop on the real tank, it might do some damage though. Which I suppose was the intention with Xen's weapon. But that makes the Quarian admirals mindbogglingly stupid for gambling that the Geth didn't develop a counter to Xen's weapon and putting the entirety of the Quarian species in danger. Like I said before: ME3 handwaves it all with the Quarians going "We've strapped guns on everything!" and by having Shep & Co call the Quarians idiots. I'll admit that I tend to have a low tolerance for holes like this. It doesn't make the entire story collapse around itself though. The setup for the situation here doesn't make whole lot of sense, but there are and will come worse things to bitch about. Raygereio fucked around with this message at 10:52 on Nov 5, 2014 |
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2014 10:45
|
|
|
Aces High posted:Even if the Migrant Fleet is the biggest fleet in the galaxy, you still have to agree with the one Admiral that you don't just send your life ships in on the first wave. Like holy poo poo I know the Quarians want their home back badly but I'm pretty drat sure most of those people living on those ships (likely children or other non-combatants) are none to pleased about being on the frontline. The casualties would indeed be massive if the Migrant Fleet ever actually fought anything, and if they attacked the Geth they would straight up lose because the Geth have the best spaceships outside of the Reapers and more of them to boot (which is why I personally consider getting the Geth onto our side to be one of Shepard's most important missions) but just because a lot of Quarians would die does not mean the ships are harmless. Raygereio posted:But that makes the Quarian admirals mindbogglingly stupid Yes. They are. I'm not trying to say what the Quarians have done with their Migrant Fleet would be enough to defeat the Geth because it very simply would not, but the fleet itself is still fairly well armed and capable of dealing damage. Like, the only people who think the Quarians would actually win their war with the Geth on their own are the Quarians, and even then a lot of them are basically of the opinion that they'd rather die trying and failing to retake their homeworld than die in space when the Reapers come.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2014 11:08
|
|
|
Lt. Danger posted:Intra-galactic As to your thoughts about the supposed ambiguity of the Geth arc, I recommend you repeat them, word for word, during the Not!Legion virutal-reality flashback mission. ... Edit: "in theory". Yep. Xander77 fucked around with this message at 12:00 on Nov 5, 2014 |
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2014 11:53
|
|
|
Neruz posted:Like, the only people who think the Quarians would actually win their war with the Geth on their own are the Quarians, and even then a lot of them are basically of the opinion that they'd rather die trying and failing to retake their homeworld than die in space when the Reapers come. Xen is the stupidest smart person in existence, and Han'Gerral is dumb enough to listen to her. She's got her own motivations for going into the war and they aren't 'take back the homeworld' they're 'reprogram the geth into her personal army'. And she's willing to drat near kill off her race to do it. She tells you about it in ME2 and most of your avaliable responses are 'are you insane?' to varying degrees of incredulity. I mean I'm not sure if they could have won or not if the Reapers didn't interfere, but her entire plan seemed to be "use flashbang, win war, take over citadel with new robot army because I am the best". I wouldn't be surprised if she's got a crayon drawing of her standing on a pile of money ferreted away in her quarters too.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2014 16:06
|
|
|
Kurieg posted:Xen is the stupidest smart person in existence, and Han'Gerral is dumb enough to listen to her. She's got her own motivations for going into the war and they aren't 'take back the homeworld' they're 'reprogram the geth into her personal army'. And she's willing to drat near kill off her race to do it. She tells you about it in ME2 and most of your avaliable responses are 'are you insane?' to varying degrees of incredulity. To be fair we know the Quarians are idiots because you have to be pretty loving stupid to do what they did to the Geth, even if they did fear reprisal from the Council.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2014 16:10
|
|
|
Yeah honestly I would imagine it would be a lot more simple just to go "Hey Geth dudes let's all work together to pretend you're not as smart as you really are, and we'll just not let the Citadel find out." That might make for an interesting story in another location, come to think of it; a land of the AIs and their creators, living side by side in a symbiotic relationship. They treat each other with respect and kindness, but in the fear that other people might discover this, they go out of their way to push everyone else out of their home so that no one discovers their "horrible secret". By the end, perhaps the creators begin to stagnate and perhaps go extinct, and the AIs try to live in their memory. Eventually their AI becomes sentient enough to create a culture very similar to their creators, and might even revere their creators as gods. Other aliens find this planet and the AIs have since forgotten how they came to be and assume that their godly creators just had them evolve as robots rather than as organics. Definitely not as fun or easy to work with in the scope of this game, but it would be interesting to see nevertheless, if it could be done well.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2014 17:03
|
|
|
Problems is it wouldn't fit with the theme of the game, in fact it runs entirely opposite to the theme of the game. I'm pretty sure the reason why the Quarians acted so idiotically is because the writers couldn't come up with a good reason as to why a supposedly intelligent and not fascist species would attempt genocide on an oppressed underclass. Probably because there isn't a good reason. That said it would be neat, could even take it to the point where it later turns out that the 'creators' the AI's are living side by side with are actually carefully designed organic replicates of the original creators who died out naturally thousands of years earlier. The replicates are nothing sinister, just camouflage or loneliness. Neruz fucked around with this message at 17:32 on Nov 5, 2014 |
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2014 17:29
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 28, 2024 04:53 |
|
|
Lt. Danger posted:Are you sure about this? I think you're misremembering a lot of the previous games. I'm generalising a bit there to make a point, to be fair, but there's a lot of these things that are poorly explained at best, and totally hamfisted at worst. But again, I don't think it would be that bad if this arc then had a lot of depth and subtlety to it, even to the extent of some of the moral choices you make in the first two games. In terms of the geth fleet, though, I'm particularly thinking of the whole 'Qwib Qwib' exchange (and the accompanying dick jokes), which basically relies on the idea that a Fleet Admiral is flying around in a second-hand ship bought from a race presumably not important enough to be playable. And he's going to use that to blow up the Geth Cube, or whatever the gently caress it is. Plus that Tali spends the entirety of the first game gawping at your ship and the fact that not everything smells of red diesel and WD-40. You have to assume that their poo poo ain't great. Of course, to be honest, a lot of this runs the risk of just sliding into an argument about game lore, and there's still too much cocaine unsnorted in the world for me to consider taking that up as a hobby, but it was really this point of the game onwards that I have to say that I lost any kind of connection to the plot. Mecha Cerberus I could have passed over the first time round, but when you get here and you're not allowed to just shoot the entire Quarian admiralty and commandeer their fleet (or at least scream and throw chairs around the war room) it becomes really obvious that you're just doing poo poo for the sake of having it there to do.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2014 20:32
|
|