Mass Effect 3 - I wish you could see it like I do. It's so... perfect

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Let's Play! > Mass Effect 3 - I wish you could see it like I do. It's so... perfect

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

I like ME3, though I wasn't too fond of its conclusion (which is a far from uncommon sentiment) and a few other parts. The beginning we just saw is probably one of the bigger ones, for the reasons Lt. Danger outlined; it doesn't do a good job of serving as an introduction for a new player, it's rushed and feels like it's in a hurry to just do the tutorial and get you out of there, and it lacks real resonance or a human feel to it. The game gets better swiftly, though.

Though we've also already encountered my least favorite part of the whole series! The way the word politician is used as a sneering curse, something contrasted against the noble soldier. I don't think an elected official does a single thing right or well the entire game; they exist solely to get in your way and cause you problems, while warriors are noble heroes and all that. The soldier worship stuff just gets to feeling a bit uncomfortable after awhile, even though I suspect it's more a function of genre (the story's about space opera warrior heroes, after all) and less of being creepy.

# ¿ Jul 21, 2014 01:50

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# ¿ May 11, 2024 06:58

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Fedule posted:

Yeah, the story this in this game is one thing but even completely disregarding that it does a pretty good job of being an Actual Good Videogame in the Actual Playable Bits. And then there's the multiplayer. The multiplayer redeems this game for a lot of people. Manguard 4 Lyfe�.

This is also truth. I played the MP a lot more than the actual game, once I finished my campaign. My buddies and I had a hell of a time dashing about blowing people up with our brains and yelling at each other on headsets. I was truly, genuinely astonished at how much fun the MP was.

# ¿ Jul 21, 2014 20:59

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Let's face it, Cerberus is pretty hilariously incompetent in all three games, in keeping with their role as Space Nazi Umbrella Inc.

# ¿ Jul 24, 2014 21:48

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

The thing about there being other reasons why the Council is short-sighted and greedy is totally valid; as Lt. Danger suggested, there's more to it that comes up later. Why I brought up that objection to the portrayal of the perfidious politician in ME is that it's universal. It isn't just the council; in ME1, Udina is generally portrayed as sneaky and short sighted and dumb because he is the 'politician'. Almost every time you encounter civilian authority it exists to get in your way, and the highest praise everyone has for Cerberus in ME2 is that they 'get things done' without political oversight and without red tape. Look at how Bailey reacts to his promotion, too. 'Ugh, I have to deal with civilian authorities and politics.'

I don't even think it's really intentionally fascist, or whatnot. I think it's a function of genre, an easy appeal to the player's heroism, and a good way to give them a strawman to feel reasonable against while also conveniently explaining why they need to consistently undertake lots of random missions and do lots of favors to get people to work together. I think the fascistic element of it is somewhat accidental and that it's more of another attempt to boost the player's opinion of Shepard (People who are more like Shepard will generally be portrayed better. People who dislike or object to Shepard will generally be portrayed as villains or pathetic). There is a strong element of troop worship to the series, though, and military strength is generally the main means by which someone is something to be taken seriously in the setting.

# ¿ Jul 28, 2014 22:05

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

I like Cortez, though. I like that he's a pretty professional and dependable officer.

# ¿ Jul 29, 2014 01:08

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

namad posted:

A little showing my age here but I think one of the most icon locations in a video game ever was probably kelethin.

I'm not familiar with this. What was Kelethin?

# ¿ Jul 30, 2014 06:52

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Neruz posted:

Didn't the humans get around the Council's restrictions on their military by using a new kind of ship, carriers I think? So the human navy is actually a lot stronger than it seems by normal Council standards.

Not only that, but considering humanity went from earthbond to galactic superpower in 30 years, and they've had a couple years as one of the autocratic bosses of the corrupt insanity that is the Council, I'd imagine they've built a lot of poo poo in the meantime.

That timeframe has always been weird to me, going from a single planet to challenging the galactic superpowers in about one generation or so, when they've had centuries with FTL and colonization to outnumber the humans.

# ¿ Aug 1, 2014 18:55

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Some of the scale problems come from the fact that I don't think the engine has ever actually had AI allies who aren't your direct squad. I can't remember the last time you had allied NPCs who weren't your two Spacebros coming on a space mission with you. Everyone always got out of the way whenever it was time for you to cap a few guys, and in past games, which had a smaller scale, that never felt incongruous. Here, it might be that an engine or programming limitation on numbers of space-bros allowed for Shepard and the unwillingness to throw tons of NPC Allies into large battles and tell the enemies to react to them made it harder to portray large battles in gameplay.

# ¿ Aug 1, 2014 21:14

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Willie Tomg posted:

Thus empowered, bioware and EA did this, and EDI sexbot etc etc.

A company thinking that of your tastes should, ideally, not thrill you.

I had not quite thought of it that way before. That's a rather chilling thought.

# ¿ Aug 4, 2014 01:14

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Cryohazard posted:

Might be a bit late to bring this up, but I felt like Mordin becoming consumed by guilt and looking to undo his questionable legacy was a natural progression for his character.

Yeah, I don't see why it would be hard to see he felt genuinely guilty about it and was partly only arguing with himself when he argued for it so vehemently in ME2. The biggest clue to how he was feeling was his advice to Maelon if you let him live: "Try Omega. Can always use another clinic." That felt like a moment of expressing kinship with his students' doubts and suggesting the course of action he'd taken to soothe his own guilt about what he'd done.

Mordin is seriously the best character in Mass Effect. I goddamn love Mordin for having a real dramatic arc and raising real questions of ethics and morality.

# ¿ Aug 11, 2014 18:19

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

FoolyCharged posted:

If you were willing to write off having nuked them, then yes. It'd kind of be pushing it to say that the geth killed them all and stole the bodies that fast though.

I'd be much more willing to go with it than a lame 90s comic reject who shows up without much introduction and never goes anywhere.

# ¿ Aug 13, 2014 04:31

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Rogue0071 posted:

Even if you don't solve the Quarian-Geth conflict peacefully, it's still not presented as inevitable or representative that all organic-synthetic conflict must end in such a manner. When you're on Rannoch, you get a mission where you can experience memories of their first war. The Quarians launch a completely unprovoked attack on the Geth after they discover that the Geth are sentient - with the Geth displaying no hostility until they are forced to in self-defense. There are Quarians who oppose and fight against both the war on the Geth and the harsh military rule that it entails, and the Geth worked with them. Even when the Geth successfully defeat the Quarians, they intentionally avoid destroying them when they no longer pose a threat to Geth existence. You can have Tali and Legion work together and become friends in ME2, and in ME3 Tali (if alive) and another Admiral on the Quarian fleet are opposed to the decision to attack the Geth. The fact that you can resolve the conflict peacefully is not a sudden and implausible break from the plot, it's a fairly natural conclusion of a great deal of events prior to it in the series. The Quarian-Geth war was about as 'inevitable' as the Vietnam War, insofar as it was a foreseeable consequence of pursuing a certain policy (instantly and violently despising the concept of synthetic life/communist anti-colonialism) but pursuing that policy was neither inevitable nor wise.

Similarly, there's the simple fact that we're dealing with sentient creatures and I'm always uncomfortable with deterministic statements about that kind of thing. "All AIs and things will eventually try to murder their creators/their creators will murder them." is kind of a ridiculous statement to make based on the fact that these are, as noted, sentient and free-willed creatures capable of moral reasoning (as we see repeatedly with the Geth). I know the writing team can state all they want that this happens inevitably and thus it will in the context of their setting because they are ultimately the authors of all that happens there, but it feels like a very boring way to write.

# ¿ Aug 14, 2014 05:40

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

There's also the incredibly obvious reason Cerberus' actions don't make any drat sense: They're Indoctrinated and actively working to sabotage everyone else's chances because, you know. That's what that entire plot point is for. They'll still give their 'WE CAN USE THIS TO MAKE HUMANITY STRONG' BS reason because Indoctrinated characters rarely notice they're indoctrinated. It's a reasonable excuse to have human enemies and 'collaborators' with the apocalyptic threat with whom you absolutely cannot negotiate or join.

Night10194 fucked around with this message at 07:42 on Aug 21, 2014

# ¿ Aug 21, 2014 07:38

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

I think one of the reasons I find myself disagreeing with Lt. Danger is that I read a very different primary theme into the series than he did, throughout ME1 and 2, which felt like it built logically upon itself before being discarded in the third act for what felt like a blatant violation of said theme.

To explain: In ME1, we learn, right away, that the fantastic technology that allows FTL is something we discovered from 'the ancients'. Common sci-fi/fantasy trope, but it's still a little eye-rolling. I remember being really goddamn pleased to discover that the Ancients were a trap, this time. That total reliance on magic ancient technology was stifling and damaging the society of the galaxy and that more importantly, it was actually going to allow the Ancients to clean everybody up at their leisure for their own dark and inscrutable purposes. Suddenly, you have to try to warn everyone that the easy route of copying the ancestors isn't going to work and we're gonna need to do something new or we're all going to die. Look at Saren's reasoning: The Ancients can't be overcome, their way is too powerful, we must follow them in all things and merely hope we can live up to their expectations enough and remain useful enough to continue to exist. He argues for the status quo, for stagnation in all things, out of hopelessness that anything can actually change (and, you know, mind controlled by space cuttlefish). Shepard rejects that, chooses to fight, and they bring down an Ancient and delay the arrival of the others. This gives them the time they might need to try to escape being chained to the past.

In ME2, you go to the seedly underbelly of the galactic power brokers and discover much more about how the other sort of wise ancient of the setting, the Asari, are corrupt as all hell. The Council, which you already likely suspected of being corrupt, is really just there to maintain the power of the dominant races and doesn't care about advancement or the disruption of the status quo, and are genuinely happy to just bury things where they are and continue getting rich off the Ancients' technology despite everything they've seen. In the process of your work, you are opposed by the servants of the Ancients, who are fully controlled by them (to the point that their masters can 'assume direct control') and who tempt other races by trading bits and bobs of their powerful technology in return for the keys to the galaxy. Similarly, you meet a highly sympathetic ally (Legion) who explicitly tells you his culture resists using things like ancient technology as much as possible in order to allow them to shape their own society and their own development. You also, on Hadstrom, see hints that there may be major ecological consequences of using technology you don't really understand for mass transit.

You can see where I'm going. Rather than created-vs-creator, I read it as past vs. present, the struggle to break out of the comfortable, easy route of using Mass Effect relays and relying on the wisdom of the ancients rather than trying to understand it for yourself. The Reapers are the overbearing specter of the past, 'allowing' your existence and 'demanding' your end if you ever look like you may eclipse them. They're the embodiment of renaissance doctors refusing to toss out Galen's anatomy because 'Well he's Roman, he has to be better and wiser than us. If it's not working we must be mucking it up somehow'. They enable, even thrive, in the creation of corrupt organizations like the Citadel Council who will happily play their game if it means their races get to lord over others (because they found the ancient treasure first and can control its distribution) and do anything they can to stop any threat to the status quo.

That's the reason the Crucible jarred me so much when it was introduced. I'd thought the story was building up to using understanding, unity, and willingness to explore to break the status quo and the cycle that has locked everyone into being in the past's shadow, forever, and then suddenly 'We found this super ancient device plan that will totally kill all the Reapers, we think. We don't actually know what it does, but it sure is pretty.' Despite this device having every hallmark of a Reaper Trap. I actually half expected it to turn out to be such during the story and that Shepard would have to do something to get past said trap and turn it to better purpose, but nope.

Well, you asked for effortposts. Thus, you get :words:

# ¿ Aug 21, 2014 17:53

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Iamblikhos posted:

Samara should live.

Miranda should live.

Admiral > Crew.

I find the Cortez romance deeply offensive and cringingly awkward even by BioWare's standards, so the answer is obvious: YES on romancing Cortez.

I've never seen that romance. What's so hilariously awful about it that it could be bad even by Bioware standards? Because Bioware standards are already pretty super bad.

# ¿ Aug 26, 2014 06:46

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

I always thought we were seeing female and male Turians both and humans just had a really hard time telling them apart. Was I incorrect in this?

# ¿ Aug 26, 2014 21:24

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Hitlers Gay Secret posted:

Quoting for new page. I hated Aria mostly because the first time you meet her they do this close up on her lips when she says "Don't gently caress with Aria". I found it so stupid. It felt like Bioware was trying to make a point and they overdid it. Plus the fact that she was so underused made her seem meaningless. I think there's a Mass Effect 3 DLC with her but gently caress buying that.

She's kind of a living example of telling, not showing. All you ever do with her is hear about how 'awesome' she is. You never actually see her do anything particularly clever or amazing, and she's just kind of this petty dictator/crime boss, which the game has kind of primed you to think will at least have some bearing on the story, while she's just kind of there, telling you she's super cool. It falls pretty flat.

# ¿ Sep 20, 2014 14:08

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# ¿ May 11, 2024 06:58

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Blade_of_tyshalle posted:

By surname, maybe. Paragon Shepard's not that friendly.

No-one in the galaxy but Shepard knows his/her first name and they're all really too embarrassed to ask.

# ¿ Sep 23, 2014 15:48

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Let's Play! > Mass Effect 3 - I wish you could see it like I do. It's so... perfect