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Psion
Dec 13, 2002

eVeN I KnOw wHaT CoRnEr gAs iS
well my guess is it's half "canon for this thread" and half "mocking the entire idea of canon" but hey.

as for the choices - I bet I understand why, too, and it'll probably make a better LP for it despite making every series veteran cringe :ssh:

that said, good luck, Danger! I've seen you beat your head against the wall for literally years now in the ME3 threads. I don't always agree but I want to see what you do with this.

e: obviously this thread will just turn into the ME3 thread again, proving the cyclical nature of the Reapers. Just saying that, since this is a page one post.

Psion fucked around with this message at 04:05 on Jul 21, 2014

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Psion
Dec 13, 2002

eVeN I KnOw wHaT CoRnEr gAs iS
the Batarian Soldier class in me3mp did more to redeem Batarians than the entire rest of the trilogy combined.

Psion
Dec 13, 2002

eVeN I KnOw wHaT CoRnEr gAs iS
If you don't like the Council, just do this at the end of ME1. Spoilers I guess.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbXepxOFw9k

Udina owns.

double nine is right, the whole "uh we don't believe you, random human" is just another quest to collect enough space plot to get yourself on the road to Saren once they make you a Jedi Knight Spectre. It really just serves as the way to wedge in collecting most of your squad, mechanically - remember that you get (or can get) Garrus, Tali, and Wrex in the whole evidence-collection part of it. That's half the ME1 squad right there, just thrown right at you.

for Bioware, subtlety is the layout of the Council chambers, not what goes on in there.

Psion fucked around with this message at 00:10 on Jul 31, 2014

Psion
Dec 13, 2002

eVeN I KnOw wHaT CoRnEr gAs iS

Chewbot posted:

Jump to whatever conclusions you'd like about that,

That your wife is the only reason you're still sane? :v:

Psion
Dec 13, 2002

eVeN I KnOw wHaT CoRnEr gAs iS

Arglebargle III posted:

I think prescriptivist trilogy structure might have a place, and that place might be AAA space opera productions that are so consciously modeled as a love letter to classic 60s and 70s space opera that it debuted with non optional film grain.

hey now, you could toggle it off. Of course when you did, you got to see just how ... awkward ME1 faces were. They look really plastic.

we should have a poll. how many people watched the intro to ME1 right up until the sweeping camera shot up to reveal Shep's face, went "drat it" and went back to the character creator?

Oh wait, it's a trick question. Everyone who didn't use default shep did that multiple times. Maybe even some of the default crew too :v:

Psion
Dec 13, 2002

eVeN I KnOw wHaT CoRnEr gAs iS

Arglebargle III posted:

Could you toggle it off on the Xbox 360?

Yes, you could. It was on by default, but see the video I posted earlier in the thread - that's from 360 and the grain is definitely off.

Psion
Dec 13, 2002

eVeN I KnOw wHaT CoRnEr gAs iS

Arglebargle III posted:

Even the Turian villains are composed and principled.

I offer a rebuttal:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrgNgnkvrA0


(Though there's actually a reason for this, it's too good an opportunity to pass up)

Psion
Dec 13, 2002

eVeN I KnOw wHaT CoRnEr gAs iS

Arglebargle III posted:

Honestly, players are terrible at knowing what they want. You have a fast travel system for a reason.

Uh, maybe it's me but this feels pretty contradictory of you. You acknowledge there's a reason for a fast travel system but then criticize players for not knowing what they want? I'd say it's proof positive they do know: less walking around a big, badly laid out, mostly empty hub. After my first time playing ME1, the Citadel was nothing more than an exercise in returning as infrequently as possible to slam in as many quest completions as possible and then to leave as soon as possible to anywhere else. This does not feel like the hallmark of successful design to me.

There are two issues: Size (sense of place, etc) and layout. I argue the ME1 citadel layout is poo poo, especially the Presidium. It was big, it had place, no disagreement there - but it could have had those and a not-poo poo layout. I think Bioware realized they couldn't really figure out how to do it justice or make it worth the return on investment it'd take to do it justice in 2 and 3: It's no surprise to me Bioware tightened things up on the Citadel - a lot - in the sequel and tightened it up even more in 3.


e: I'll agree Tuchanka was disappointing and a Noveria to Peak 15-esque drive could have - in theory - done a lot for fleshing out the Krogan homeworld, but you didn't think Thane's recruitment owned and I don't even know what's up with that. I think a lot of your positive comments about Tali's recruitment apply to Thane's as well so I'm not sure why you don't.

Psion fucked around with this message at 19:41 on Aug 8, 2014

Psion
Dec 13, 2002

eVeN I KnOw wHaT CoRnEr gAs iS

A Curvy Goonette posted:

If the characters in ME1 moved more quickly than "spicy jaunt" when out of combat the size of the Citadel wouldn't have been so noticeable.

yeah this is an important thing as well. I think a large part of the frustration relates to how quickly and efficiently you can move through it to get to your destination. The ME1 citadel is nothing but obstacles to efficiency at a snail's pace of character movement, it's maddening. If you want to continue along the lines of "the level designers thought of this, the players did not" then I'd put the blame squarely at the feet of the level designers who made a hub that was fundamentally incompatible with your player movement. Nothing can help you if you wanted to get to the Normandy to where Zabaleta was in any reasonable timeframe though. And the quest, of course, made you go back after you did. :shepicide:

Compare to, say, Saints Row IV, where the city was many, many times larger but your movement options were literally superpowers. Made traveling so easy and straightforward it was never, ever a problem to go from X to Y no matter how far apart those points were.

There's a middle ground, of course, where you can have better flow without superpowers. That said, part of me wishes you could lock-on to civs on the Citadel and vanguard charge them. That'd solve the movement problem. :getin:

Psion fucked around with this message at 19:49 on Aug 8, 2014

Psion
Dec 13, 2002

eVeN I KnOw wHaT CoRnEr gAs iS

Sombrerotron posted:

EDIT:
Clearly, the solution is to have Joker deliver the MAKO to you whenever and wherever you want to so you can joydrive around the entire Citadel (hopefully to the tune of "Holding Out For A Hero").

I support this.

Psion
Dec 13, 2002

eVeN I KnOw wHaT CoRnEr gAs iS

Willie Tomg posted:

Extended traversal times are dope as hell when they're a gameplay element (see: Shadow of the Colossus, Saints Row IV) and absolutely awful when they're blatant time-padding (dragon age, ME1)

This is a good way to put it.

I just remembered this: KOTOR suffers from Citadel Problems. Taris was atrocious. You could use a super-speed cheat (I did) and it made the entire planet better. That's it: change run speed, better experience.

bioware: bad at big spaces

Psion
Dec 13, 2002

eVeN I KnOw wHaT CoRnEr gAs iS
Personally I just want to be clear, everyone who's thrown up their arms and said they're not watching any more of this LP also aren't going to post in this thread again, right?

Psion
Dec 13, 2002

eVeN I KnOw wHaT CoRnEr gAs iS
the thing is, and this has always made me wonder what planet Talimancers are from:

ME1: your introduction to Tali is someone who can hack a geth core (that everyone else thinks is basically impossible, she's badass at her job) making a bad deal with some gangsters for protection. When it goes sour, she figures out on her own the deal is bad and starts to make her exit by going "yeah, gently caress you, have a grenade." Would it have worked without Shep's intervention? Probably not, but points for trying. And using explosives, no less.

ME2: your introduction to Tali is someone running her own salvage team far from the support of the flotilla who is clearly more competent than anyone else in her "soon-to-be-murdered by a YMIR" squad. Despite this, she stands up to Shepard and says "hey, I'd love to go with you again, but I have responsibilities to my fleet and people, so, catch you later." After she fulfills those responsibilities, she's willing to join up again.

ME3: See this thread, but it just proves my point.

how a character who's basically an independent adult handling her own poo poo and being responsible (mostly) - even having a character arc about getting more responsible - got turned into ~mai waifu~ perplexes me.

Psion fucked around with this message at 17:43 on Aug 25, 2014

Psion
Dec 13, 2002

eVeN I KnOw wHaT CoRnEr gAs iS
I feel like there's some weird slowdown in the gif after the punch lands, but it's hard to say. The animation was pretty odd.

Udina, I think, works best if you put him as the councilor in ME1. First, he burns the turian councilor immediately, so that's a plus. Second, it helps ... well, maybe not explain, but it makes it easier to work with what ME3 gives you. The guy's been working with or on the council for years. Always pushing for his species, trying for years to make deals and swing influence and then when the chips are down, when all his work comes to a tipping point where it really matters what he's done ... everyone tells him "well, sorry, no. Also gently caress you, got mine."

so, ME3 rolls around. You have Udina, who's seeing years of his professional work mean poo poo. Who's seeing his entire worldview crumble. Who's seeing his entire civilization get eaten and his so-called fellow councilors are throwing him to the wolves, treating him like Ashley's dog metaphor. I think what you were supposed to see was Udina pushed to the point where he had nothing to lose and is desperate - desperate - to do something to save humanity. He takes a really drat bad deal to do it because he feels he has no other choice.

Alas: supposed to see. Could've seen. Should've seen, perhaps. There are hints of it there, your conversations with him earlier in the game scream "I'm barely holding it together because it's my drat job to hold it together and I'll do it" and I responded well to that - finally, I thought, we're getting somewhere with the complexities of politicians and wrecking balls like Shepard trying to interact. We're gonna do this thing because we've finally found a threat bigger than the Shepard-Udina dispute hour. Instead, grey gets turned into a quick black and white, you resolve it in two minutes because Shepard, it's over. All the potential character and plot growth potential gets discarded in a hurry - almost casually, as if it wasn't even meaningful - to introduce BADASS SPACENINJA NOTRACIST and the resolution just deflates like a sad balloon.

in another thousand word post nobody will read, Cerberus having the power of plot is stupid.

Psion fucked around with this message at 21:36 on Sep 3, 2014

Psion
Dec 13, 2002

eVeN I KnOw wHaT CoRnEr gAs iS
Yeah, Conrad assuming you put a gun to his face whether or not you did - it ends up funnier, therefore, better.

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Psion
Dec 13, 2002

eVeN I KnOw wHaT CoRnEr gAs iS
well gee, Neruz called anyone who picked colors they didn't an idiot. Or an utter idiot. Sometimes with bold and italic. Wrap it up, thread is over ... idiots.

alternately, Neruz, source your quotes.

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