Ubuntu 14.04 LTS Trusty Tahr - The thing that thousands thought to try

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SurgicalOntologist: Jun 17, 2004

I am not a book posted:

Oh for sure Numix looks really nice, not my particular cup of tea but I can appreciate the work that's gone into it because it really shows.
You're kind of missing the point of an ideogram though if you think that they don't need to be easily identifiable; I really don't even know how to respond to that, because the idea that I should have to guess what a button does is completely foreign to me. Look at this picture. It uses some cultural shorthand obviously(slashed circle), but it's immediately obvious what the intent is... and that's how computer interfaces should be. Anything else makes interaction difficult for the user, which defeats the entire purpose.

No, you missed my point. Of course I agree that the icons should be easily identifiable and not require any mental effort to identify.

But I don't think pointing the compass in a direction other than NE or making the equals sign a different color would add any mental overhead at all.

E: I mean what are you trying to say with that image you linked? That now all "no dogs" signs need to have the dog facing to the right for the intent be easily identifiable? Because that's the level of similitude we're dealing with here.

SurgicalOntologist fucked around with this message at 06:19 on Aug 12, 2014

# ? Aug 12, 2014 06:16

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# ? Apr 30, 2024 12:26

I am not a book: Mar 9, 2013

SurgicalOntologist posted:

No, you missed my point. Of course I agree that the icons should be easily identifiable and not require any mental effort to identify.

But I don't think pointing the compass in a direction other than NE or making the equals sign a different color would add any mental overhead at all.

You phrased your point in an unclear way.
What I'm saying is that complaining about the fact that the needle points a different way on the compass is like complaining that the second software project to use the floppy disk icon as a save icon didn't draw the protective plastic piece in a different position than the first software project. But that was in the context of "icons needing to be easily identifiable? B.S. It's laziness" which I misinterpreted, so I'm not really disagreeing with you.

# ? Aug 12, 2014 06:24

SurgicalOntologist: Jun 17, 2004

Fair enough. I meant that's a BS excuse for the extreme similarity, not a BS thing to shoot for in general.

# ? Aug 12, 2014 06:26

I am not a book: Mar 9, 2013

SurgicalOntologist posted:

Fair enough. I meant that's a BS excuse for the extreme similarity, not a BS thing to shoot for in general.

I mean, I disagree with that, but that's because I'm not in a position where my IP is ever going to be monetized so I can afford to be like "yeah copy everything who cares" so it doesn't bother me at all. v

# ? Aug 12, 2014 06:31

ShadowHawk: Jun 25, 2000; CERTIFIED PRE OWNED TESLA OWNER

I am not a book posted:

Oh for sure Numix looks really nice, not my particular cup of tea but I can appreciate the work that's gone into it because it really shows.
You're kind of missing the point of an ideogram though if you think that they don't need to be easily identifiable; I really don't even know how to respond to that, because the idea that I should have to guess what a button does is completely foreign to me. Look at this picture. It uses some cultural shorthand obviously(slashed circle), but it's immediately obvious what the intent is... and that's how computer interfaces should be. Anything else makes interaction difficult for the user, which defeats the entire purpose. If they had just changed the colors and the way the needle was pointing, I'd be having this conversation with someone else about "look how badly Ubuntu rips off Apple".

edit to your edit: Would we be having this same conversation about the floppy icon as a ideogram for "Save" if we were both 30 years older?

Copying Apple is wrong because 1) The Apple icons are not very good to neophytes, and 2) "Familiarity" only makes sense if our users are coming from Apple products. Apple is a tiny, tiny minority of the cell phone world. Ubuntu is positioning itself to be the next Android, and Android completely dominates Apple in popularity if you get outside the rich western bubble.

There are better metaphors for a browser icon than trying to suggest "Safari" in a browser that isn't even named that.

# ? Aug 12, 2014 07:13

Stanley Pain: Jun 16, 2001; by Fluffdaddy

ShadowHawk posted:

Copying Apple is wrong because 1) The Apple icons are not very good to neophytes, and 2) "Familiarity" only makes sense if our users are coming from Apple products. Apple is a tiny, tiny minority of the cell phone world. Ubuntu is positioning itself to be the next Android, and Android completely dominates Apple in popularity if you get outside the rich western bubble.

There are better metaphors for a browser icon than trying to suggest "Safari" in a browser that isn't even named that.

What the gently caress are you smoking?

While I might not like Apple in the least, they are certainly not tiny in the cell phone world (Western World or not). Ubuntu being the next Android :psyduck:

I don't disagree with you on the sentiment of copying Apple's icons though.

# ? Aug 12, 2014 14:06

ShadowHawk: Jun 25, 2000; CERTIFIED PRE OWNED TESLA OWNER

Stanley Pain posted:

What the gently caress are you smoking?

While I might not like Apple in the least, they are certainly not tiny in the cell phone world (Western World or not).

Apple has got about 10.4% share by units sold, and given their upscale market niche it's very reasonable to think the buyers of apple products are among those that already have smart phones.

Copying an icon because 10% of people will recognize it doesn't make sense, especially since a large chunk of those 10% would recognize a more standard icon as well.

quote:

Ubuntu being the next Android

I don't disagree with you on the sentiment of copying Apple's icons though.

Yes, Ubuntu wants to be the next open platform for phones. It's got a long way to go to beat Android (which is also an open platform for phones in the way that iOS isn't). Both are trying to make plays for emerging (cheap) markets in a way that Apple isn't.

I don't think Ubuntu will grow particularly quickly in this regard, but it's certainly not doing an Apple walled-garden strategy.

# ? Aug 12, 2014 14:27

Radio Talmudist: Sep 29, 2008

So is it still a bitch to dualboot a Windows 8.1 and Ubuntu machine because of EFI? I have Windows 8.1 and I've been itching to try the latest Ubuntu, but I don't think I can do it.

# ? Aug 12, 2014 16:45

Stanley Pain: Jun 16, 2001; by Fluffdaddy

ShadowHawk posted:

Apple has got about 10.4% share by units sold, and given their upscale market niche it's very reasonable to think the buyers of apple products are among those that already have smart phones.

Units sold/shipped is a bloody dubious metric to use at best. Subscriber + Market Share numbers paint a different picture. In the US it's about 50/50 Android/iOS and in the rest of the world it's 35/65 give or take ~5%.

# ? Aug 12, 2014 17:47

Polidoro: Jan 5, 2011; Huevo se dice argidia. Argidia!

Radio Talmudist posted:

So is it still a bitch to dualboot a Windows 8.1 and Ubuntu machine because of EFI? I have Windows 8.1 and I've been itching to try the latest Ubuntu, but I don't think I can do it.

Depends on what you have. In my Toshiba laptop it was a pain in the rear end because the boot order seems to be hardcoded. I renamed bootmgfw.efi (the file that starts Windows) to bootmgfw2.efi and then renamed the grub .efi file (can't remember the name) to bootmgfw.efi and pointed the windows entry in grub.cfg to bootmgfw2.efi to avoid grub relaunching itself when selecting the Windows entry. In short, it's a piece of poo poo.

Maybe there's a more elegant way but I really needed the computer for things other than tinkering with it, so I did the first thing that came to mind.

# ? Aug 12, 2014 18:36

evol262: Nov 30, 2010; #!/usr/bin/perl

Stanley Pain posted:

Units sold/shipped is a bloody dubious metric to use at best. Subscriber + Market Share numbers paint a different picture. In the US it's about 50/50 Android/iOS and in the rest of the world it's 35/65 give or take ~5%.

Citation desperately needed if you're asserting that the iOS market share is anywhere near 65% (and not actually 10-20%) given that China and India each have a market three times larger than the US and both markets are >80% Android. iOS has a lot of adherents, certainly, but it is not anywhere near even market share, much less dominant.

# ? Aug 12, 2014 18:48

Powered Descent: Jul 13, 2008; We haven't had that spirit here since 1969.

Radio Talmudist posted:

So is it still a bitch to dualboot a Windows 8.1 and Ubuntu machine because of EFI? I have Windows 8.1 and I've been itching to try the latest Ubuntu, but I don't think I can do it.

In my experience this is the fault of Windows, not Linux. I once set up a Windows 8 machine to dual-boot to Ubuntu, and it worked great... until the next time I booted into Windows, which would helpfully (and silently) "fix" the EFI settings for me, removing the Ubuntu entry, so I'd have to dick around in the bios menus to be able to boot to Ubuntu again. Annoying as hell.

(Note: this was maybe six months ago; no idea if Microsoft has fixed that since then.)

# ? Aug 12, 2014 19:07

computer parts: Nov 18, 2010; PLEASE CLAP

evol262 posted:

Citation desperately needed if you're asserting that the iOS market share is anywhere near 65% (and not actually 10-20%) given that China and India each have a market three times larger than the US and both markets are >80% Android. iOS has a lot of adherents, certainly, but it is not anywhere near even market share, much less dominant.

Mobile traffic is different from actual device marketshare.

# ? Aug 12, 2014 19:10

evol262: Nov 30, 2010; #!/usr/bin/perl

computer parts posted:

Mobile traffic is different from actual device marketshare.

The discussion is about whether icons with a visual similarity to iOS icons are intuitive or not, not anything about mobile traffic, and mobile traffic has nothing to do with the number of people who actually own iOS devices and see those icons.

# ? Aug 12, 2014 19:22

ShadowHawk: Jun 25, 2000; CERTIFIED PRE OWNED TESLA OWNER

Stanley Pain posted:

Units sold/shipped is a bloody dubious metric to use at best. Subscriber + Market Share numbers paint a different picture. In the US it's about 50/50 Android/iOS and in the rest of the world it's 35/65 give or take ~5%.

Careful not to lump in tablet numbers (though if we want to talk about mobile in general that might be reasonable).

I would also suggest that using straight up market share is not correct, as it weights by the price of the item and Apple products are several times more expensive than Android products. Apple users should not count three times as much

That said, if people use iDevices 3 times longer before replacing them then units sold will underestimate them in a similarly bad way.

Regardless, this is a bit of a silly thing to be arguing about. There are plenty of good reasons not to ape the safari icon.

# ? Aug 12, 2014 19:37

computer parts: Nov 18, 2010; PLEASE CLAP

evol262 posted:

The discussion is about whether icons with a visual similarity to iOS icons are intuitive or not, not anything about mobile traffic, and mobile traffic has nothing to do with the number of people who actually own iOS devices and see those icons.

I think mobile traffic is pretty important when discussing Safari. :v:

# ? Aug 12, 2014 19:41

evol262: Nov 30, 2010; #!/usr/bin/perl

computer parts posted:

I think mobile traffic is pretty important when discussing Safari.

It's actually completely unimportant when discussing the Safari icon, because that's what we're discussing, not Safari.

Whether or not iOS users account for a significant proportion of mobile traffic in the US isn't really relevant, since it indicates nothing more than heavy mobile use. Think of it this way, if 10% of people own iOS devices and account for 99% of traffic, 90% of Ubuntu users (on average) will still have zero familiarity with the icons used on iOS.

# ? Aug 12, 2014 19:56

SurgicalOntologist: Jun 17, 2004

Powered Descent posted:

In my experience this is the fault of Windows, not Linux. I once set up a Windows 8 machine to dual-boot to Ubuntu, and it worked great... until the next time I booted into Windows, which would helpfully (and silently) "fix" the EFI settings for me, removing the Ubuntu entry, so I'd have to dick around in the bios menus to be able to boot to Ubuntu again. Annoying as hell.

(Note: this was maybe six months ago; no idea if Microsoft has fixed that since then.)

FYI I recommend a (Windows) program called EasyBCD for sorting all this stuff out. I use it to dual-boot W8 and Ubuntu via the Windows EFI selector. Although I haven't booted into Windows in a long time so I'm not sure if I ever upgraded to 8.1.

# ? Aug 12, 2014 21:07

evol262: Nov 30, 2010; #!/usr/bin/perl

Powered Descent posted:

In my experience this is the fault of Windows, not Linux. I once set up a Windows 8 machine to dual-boot to Ubuntu, and it worked great... until the next time I booted into Windows, which would helpfully (and silently) "fix" the EFI settings for me, removing the Ubuntu entry, so I'd have to dick around in the bios menus to be able to boot to Ubuntu again. Annoying as hell.

(Note: this was maybe six months ago; no idea if Microsoft has fixed that since then.)

As long as you use grub-efi or grub2, you don't really have to worry about this. BCD is harder to manage (a lot of system updates will "fix" it), but Ubuntu's installer should put grub2 at bootx64.efi, but an EFI shell can select it even if you overwrite it from Windows somehow.

# ? Aug 12, 2014 21:32

Radio Talmudist: Sep 29, 2008

Wow, this is awesome. Might try this tonight.

# ? Aug 12, 2014 21:33

SurgicalOntologist: Jun 17, 2004

Radio Talmudist posted:

Wow, this is awesome. Might try this tonight.

If you're talking about EasyBCD, I may as well describe my setup since the docs on their website look a bit out of date.

I installed grub2 directly to my Ubuntu partition (i.e. /dev/sda<n> instead of the usually recommended /dev/sda), and used EasyBCD to point a BCD entry there. So I get two boot options: one that goes straight into Windows, and the other that goes to grub2 and from there to Ubuntu.

However, at work I didn't bother with this and just let grub2 manage everything the way evol262 is suggesting, and haven't had any problems. But again, I haven't booted into Windows in a few months.

# ? Aug 12, 2014 21:41

Stanley Pain: Jun 16, 2001; by Fluffdaddy

evol262 posted:

Citation desperately needed if you're asserting that the iOS market share is anywhere near 65% (and not actually 10-20%) given that China and India each have a market three times larger than the US and both markets are >80% Android. iOS has a lot of adherents, certainly, but it is not anywhere near even market share, much less dominant.

Re-Read what I wrote

# ? Aug 13, 2014 00:30

Fangs404: Dec 20, 2004; I time bomb.

Fangs404 posted:

do-release-upgrade is still not working for 12.04LTS. It's been 2 weeks since the point release hit. I don't want to do do-release-upgrade -d because I don't want the development version. Is there any public reason why it's not working yet?

[edit]
Looks like there's a long thread on this problem here.

For anyone else that noticed this, I just checked, and do-release-upgrade is now working (sans -d) on my server.

# ? Aug 13, 2014 01:08

The Merkinman: Apr 22, 2007; I sell only quality merkins. What is a merkin you ask? Why, it's a wig for your genitals!

Hmm what exactly is the 'bug' with the icons?
"Icon set assumes familiarity with other OS"?
"Some icons are unoriginal"?
"Icons make Canonical a target of an Apple lawsuit"?

# ? Aug 13, 2014 02:22

evol262: Nov 30, 2010; #!/usr/bin/perl

Stanley Pain posted:

Re-Read what I wrote

I did, and it reads the same way -- like unverified statements that need a citation if you're going to throw out absurd percentages. Maybe you didn't say what you intended to.

Subscribers mean nothing in countries where you use SIMs (Asia and large parts of Europe). Market share is units sold in most of the world.

# ? Aug 13, 2014 02:32

Fiskiggy: Feb 15, 2005; You have impressed FFCiv with your turn time!
They turn a blind eye to the turn times of other civilizations, and your Influence over them has increased by 40.

The Merkinman posted:

Hmm what exactly is the 'bug' with the icons?
"Icon set assumes familiarity with other OS"?
"Some icons are unoriginal"?
"Icons make Canonical a target of an Apple lawsuit"?

The calculator symbols aren't centered on their imaginary buttons and if it was a real one with a full set of buttons it would look all weird. This may be a kernel limitation but I hope it's resolved at some point.

# ? Aug 13, 2014 02:34

Stanley Pain: Jun 16, 2001; by Fluffdaddy

evol262 posted:

I did, and it reads the same way -- like unverified statements that need a citation if you're going to throw out absurd percentages. Maybe you didn't say what you intended to.

Subscribers mean nothing in countries where you use SIMs (Asia and large parts of Europe). Market share is units sold in most of the world.

Units sold does not mean what you think it means. Unless I'm not remembering the stats properly, units shipped = Units the OEM has sold, and not units bought at retail.

The greatest metric for this is mobile web usage which has been at 50/50 Android/iOS for a while now. To put this to rest there are MANY more people than you think that will recognize a Safari like web browser icon. Certainly not 10%. Is it stupid they basically cloned a bunch of apple icons? Sure, I hate apple and don't want anything to even remind me of them :clint:

Ubuntu as a mobile OS would be pretty sweet but I think we're a very long way (if at all) off it being a thing with any meaningful numbers behind it.

# ? Aug 13, 2014 17:57

evol262: Nov 30, 2010; #!/usr/bin/perl

Stanley Pain posted:

Units sold does not mean what you think it means. Unless I'm not remembering the stats properly, units shipped = Units the OEM has sold, and not units bought at retail.

Yes and no. That's only a valid metric for the US, as are subscriber numbers. But units sold and units shipped are different numbers.

Stanley Pain posted:

The greatest metric for this is mobile web usage which has been at 50/50 Android/iOS for a while now. To put this to rest there are MANY more people than you think that will recognize a Safari like web browser icon. Certainly not 10%. Is it stupid they basically cloned a bunch of apple icons? Sure, I hate apple and don't want anything to even remind me of them

This is also only true for some countries. On average, iOS is between 10% and 30% of marketshare by mobile traffic, depending on the country, with English-speaking nations and some outliers (Brunei, Japan) very high on the iOS scale and others (Austria, Bangladesh, Indonesia, India) very high on the Android scale. You may notice a correlation between nations with very large populations and large internal infrastructure (where mobile traffic wouldn't show up on US servers) using Android.

Certainly in the English-speaking nations and wealthier countries, iOS has more market share (both in proportion and sometimes in absolutes), and if that's the market they're going for, it may be ok. But both on mobile traffic and device sales, iOS is pretty outstripped if they're looking to make "Phones for People" the same way they made "Linux for People". I don't think an Ubuntu Phone would succeed in any real way, especially with Sailfish already out there with real hardware on a real OS which also happens to be mostly Android compatible, but aping iOS is still pretty stupid, particularly given that "globe-ish thing" is a pretty universally identifable browser logo (IE, Firefox, Android Browser, debatably Chrome).

# ? Aug 13, 2014 18:29

Surprise T Rex: Apr 9, 2008; Dinosaur Gum

I wish I'd known about Mint basically being terrible before now. I'd always thought it was basically an almost-identical alternative to Ubuntu.

Are the varying 'flavours' (Ku-, Xu-, Lu-, etc.) 100% identical aside from the DE provided? Considering dropping a copy onto an old ASUS EEE PC 900 I've got lying around, and having a lightweight-but-functionally-the-same version would be ace.

# ? Aug 14, 2014 16:29

ShadowHawk: Jun 25, 2000; CERTIFIED PRE OWNED TESLA OWNER

Surprise T Rex posted:

I wish I'd known about Mint basically being terrible before now. I'd always thought it was basically an almost-identical alternative to Ubuntu.

Are the varying 'flavours' (Ku-, Xu-, Lu-, etc.) 100% identical aside from the DE provided? Considering dropping a copy onto an old ASUS EEE PC 900 I've got lying around, and having a lightweight-but-functionally-the-same version would be ace.

As far as I know, yes. The only changes that might lie deeper are those that just come from installing packages in a standard ubuntu system in a different order (for instance, the shutdown screen will show "Lubuntu" if you installed lubuntu-desktop more recently than ubuntu-desktop)

# ? Aug 14, 2014 16:44

Prince John: Jun 20, 2006; Oh, poppycock! Female bandits?

Is there a kind soul in this thread that is able to compile a version of wine 1.3.34 or earlier so it will run on a 64 bit 14.04 install please?

For some reason, I'm chronically unable to build earlier versions of wine from source on Ubuntu 14.04, even though they build ok on my Fedora install.

As an example, the error I get when trying to compile 1.2.2 (one that I have been able to successfully compile on Fedora) is:

quote:

make[1]: Entering directory `/home/user/Downloads/wine-1.2.2/tools/wrc'
gcc -m32 -c -I. -I. -I../../include -I../../include -D__WINESRC__ -DINCLUDEDIR="\"/usr/local/include/wine\"" -Wall -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -Wdeclaration-after-statement -Wstrict-prototypes -Wtype-limits -Wwrite-strings -Wpointer-arith -g -O2 -U_FORTIFY_SOURCE -D_FORTIFY_SOURCE=0 -o parser.tab.o parser.tab.c
parser.y: In function �rsrcid_to_token�:
parser.y:2875:15: error: �YYLEX� undeclared (first use in this function)
lookahead = YYLEX;
^
parser.y:2875:15: note: each undeclared identifier is reported only once for each function it appears in
make[1]: *** [parser.tab.o] Error 1
make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/user/Downloads/wine-1.2.2/tools/wrc'
make: *** [tools/wrc] Error 2

Compilation failed, aborting install.

I also get the same error trying to build 1.3.34 itself. The reason I need it is this bug/feature added for 1.3.35 that removed the ability to use brush tools easily in Photoshop. I don't seem to be able to successfully apply the patch for more recent versions either.

I'd be grateful for any suggestions. Thanks!

Prince John fucked around with this message at 23:32 on Aug 14, 2014

# ? Aug 14, 2014 23:09

G-Prime: Apr 30, 2003; Baby, when it's love,
if it's not rough it isn't fun.

As I recall, the OP ShadowHawk is actually the Wine maintainer for Ubuntu, so that might just be possible.

# ? Aug 14, 2014 23:12

Powered Descent: Jul 13, 2008; We haven't had that spirit here since 1969.

I have a confession to make... for the last year or so, I've been using Mint. Mostly because I really like the Cinnamon desktop.

Last week I decided to redo my main workstation with a fresh install of Mint 17, which seemed great running it from a USB stick. So I install it and it's... an unstable hunk of crap. It locks up randomly. Plug in a pair of headphones to the front jack, and the entire sound system is borked -- start playing a sound? Freeze the whole system for fifteen seconds before it begins! -- until you get sick of it and reboot. And just today it somehow screwed up name resolution, of all things -- DNS lookups took about ten seconds each, no matter what server I set or anything else I tried, until I gave up and rebooted again. (How the hell do you screw up name resolution?) I've known Windows 98 boxes that were more stable than this.

Looks like I'll be coming home to Ubuntu, or at least Xubuntu. (Sorry, still can't stand Unity.

)

# ? Aug 15, 2014 00:42

Applebees: Jul 23, 2013; yospos

Is there a place that archives the debs from https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-wine/+archive/ubuntu/ppa? Specifically, I am looking for wine 1.7.17 for trusty.

# ? Aug 15, 2014 02:30

Da Mott Man: Aug 3, 2012

Applebees posted:

Is there a place that archives the debs from https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-wine/+archive/ubuntu/ppa? Specifically, I am looking for wine 1.7.17 for trusty.

http://ppa.launchpad.net/ubuntu-wine/ppa/ubuntu/pool/main/w/wine1.7/

# ? Aug 15, 2014 03:50

Applebees: Jul 23, 2013; yospos

Da Mott Man posted:

http://ppa.launchpad.net/ubuntu-wine/ppa/ubuntu/pool/main/w/wine1.7/

Those are the packages that are currently published in the PPA, so that wine1.7-amd64_1.7.17-0ubuntu1_amd64.deb is for raring.

1.7.22 is the version currently in the PPA for trusty. I'm looking for an older version that was published a little while ago but has since been replaced.

# ? Aug 15, 2014 04:52

Da Mott Man: Aug 3, 2012

Applebees posted:

Those are the packages that are currently published in the PPA, so that wine1.7-amd64_1.7.17-0ubuntu1_amd64.deb is for raring.

1.7.22 is the version currently in the PPA for trusty. I'm looking for an older version that was published a little while ago but has since been replaced.

You would be right. I can't actually find anything older then 1.7.18 for trusty.

# ? Aug 15, 2014 05:28

YouTuber: Jul 31, 2004; by FactsAreUseless

Surprise T Rex posted:

I wish I'd known about Mint basically being terrible before now. I'd always thought it was basically an almost-identical alternative to Ubuntu.

I never had problems with Mint when I used it for their Mint 14-16(?) releases. It ran far better than Ubuntu which would give random popup errors all over the place. I still use Cinnamon over in Arch Linux and the only problem I have with it is the menu opening poo poo when I move the mouse quickly over the taskbar after opening it. Otherwise it's solid.

Mint decided to stop making parity to each Ubuntu release and just work from the LTS builds. I think the entire thing is a wasted endeavour and they should work from Debian which is more stable not Ubuntu.

# ? Aug 15, 2014 16:58

Just Another Lurker: May 1, 2009

Bummer to hear that Mint isn't playing nice with WINE, does this affect their Debian based version of Mint as well as the Ubuntu derived one? :ohdear:

# ? Aug 15, 2014 20:26

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# ? Apr 30, 2024 12:26

deimos: Nov 30, 2006; Forget it man this bat is whack, it's got poobrain!

Also throwback to the dumb icon talk, they're technically stealing webkit's icon, not safari's.

# ? Aug 15, 2014 23:02

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > Ubuntu 14.04 LTS Trusty Tahr - The thing that thousands thought to try

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