Torka posted:

Gaunab posted:

what if white people were created in the devil's image

concerned mom posted:

I don't get this craze of weird bible films coming out at the moment. America is a weird place

quote:

22 So the present passed over before him; and he himself lodged that night in the camp.
23 And he rose up that night, and took his two wives, and his two handmaids, and his eleven children, and passed over the ford of the Jabbok.
24 And he took them, and sent them over the stream, and sent over that which he had.
25 And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day.
26 And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was strained, as he wrestled with him.
27 And he said: 'Let me go, for the day breaketh.' And he said: 'I will not let thee go, except thou bless me.'
28 And he said unto him: 'What is thy name?' And he said: 'Jacob.'
29 And he said: 'Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel; for thou hast striven with God and with men, and hast prevailed.'

Palpek posted:

just a reminder that this is the guy playing rhamses

Fandyien posted:

since the egyptians of the biblical era are way post ptolemaic wouldn't they have been all white and hellenized and not literally nubian?

Miltank posted:

The story takes place like a thousand years before Alexander the Great.

Fandyien posted:

since the egyptians of the biblical era are way post ptolemaic wouldn't they have been all white and hellenized and not literally nubian?

Fandyien posted:

oh its not about the jesus part of the bible?

Randarkman posted:

way pre-hellenic, you mean. this is supposed to be like thousands of years before alexander the great.

also theories that say taht certain people were like white or black before or whatever and they changed because of something, are almost always wrong and stupid.

take the greeks for instance, pictured as the perfect fathers of western civilization by western europeans, then people in the 19th century, once racism came up an running, sort of found out that greeks were kind of brown, too brown, and plato, aristotle and leonidas had to have been white people, so the greeks must have been changed by turks and arabs or something.

Fandyien posted:

yeah i mostly meant that in the sense of "whiter than dudes from sudan".

Fandyien posted:

egypt is cool though and wasn't the pharaoh pretty much the good guy in the sense that the kingdom of judea went on to genocide a bunch of people while egypt did not? the caananites or whatever? I'm not up on my biblical narratives

rudatron posted:

gonna go out on a limb and say that the ancient egyptians looked the same as modern egyptians - you know, their descendants

Fandyien posted:

egypt got arabized, son

Randarkman posted:

culturally yes. there weren't nearly enough arab settlers to make more than a tiny bump in the egyptan gene pool. and before that egypt was hellenized, and nubianized, and you had the sea people invasion even before that and the kushites.

Torka posted:

fiction based on christian poo poo can be fun if it's not too heavy handed, like that show the x files guy made with lance henriksen

e: uh not that this film is an example of not being heavy handed

Fandyien posted:

interesting, i had always heard that the arab invasions profoundly changed the demography of egypt, do you have any good links? i'm just curious

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNA_history_of_Egypt posted:

Egypt has experienced several invasions during its history. However, these do not seem to account for more than about 10% overall of current Egyptians ancestry when the DNA evidence of the ancient mitochondrial DNA and modern Y chromosomes is considered.

In general, various DNA studies have found that the gene frequencies of modern North African populations are intermediate between those of the Horn of Africa and Eurasia,[17] though possessing a greater genetic affinity with the populations of Eurasia than they do with Africa.[3][3][4] The present population of the Sahara is Caucasoid in the extreme north, with a fairly gradual increase of Negroid component as one goes south.[6][18][19] The results of these genetic studies is consistent with the historical record, which records significant bidirectional contact between Egypt and Nubia, and the Levant/Middle East within the last few thousand years, but with general population continuity from the Early Dynastic Period of Egypt up to the modern day era.[20][21]

rudatron posted:

Ethnic cleansing and racial genocide is a recent phenomena, when most ancient countries are invaded the vast majority of the population stays put. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss, etc.

Fandyien posted:

interesting, i had always heard that the arab invasions profoundly changed the demography of egypt, do you have any good links? i'm just curious

rudatron posted:

exodus is a boring loving story just like every other story the bible, at least greeks could make their religion interesting

plot is way to predictable, would not read again

JerryLee posted:

Ibrahim Fagge

Randarkman posted:

i don't really have much specific in the way of links, beyond suggesting reading some books on early islamic history perhaps? there's also the fact that egypt has and always had a much larger population than the arabian peninsula. also that the islamic invasions weren't as much as a migratory movement as many people think, relatively few arabs left and the majority of these set themselves up as miltary elites or were part of later (centuries later) migrations of bedouin tribes (and these more often settled the frontier regions to the west and south, rather than heavily populated areas), both of whom did not necessarily mingle much with the population at large.

arabization and islamization were also very slow processes in the middle east, both islam and the arabic language had not penetrated much outside of the large cities and their environs. the majority of the population of egypt and syria is thought to have remained christian and coptic/syriac speaking all the way up till the 12th or 13th centuries, possibly even longer for egypt whcih still has its coptic minority who are genetically pretty much identical to the muslim egyptians.

bunch of mpore stuff to look at, obviously, but in general arabization, not just in egypt, was primarily a cultural rather than a 'racial' thing.