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Agreeing with just about all of the above. Take the high road and salvage the reference, managerial refs are worth their weight in gold if you ever find yourself stuck without a gig. And if you can bill them back while consulting, it's a win/win.
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Sep 16, 2014 15:16
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Drunk Orc posted:How long did it take you guys from applying to finally land an interview or a job? I'm beginning to think I might have something wrong with my resume because I'm not hearing back from anyone, or I'm just impatient which is also a good possibility. 😅 I humbly volunteer my strong opinion. PM me your resume/city/salary expectations, and I'll try to give you an unbiased take on it.
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Sep 16, 2014 21:01
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smokmnky posted:If I don't have PM but would like to abuse your kind offer would that be possible? Post your email and I'll respond as soon as I can. Pretty solid article I just read on LinkedIn. Sound advice even outside of silicon valley... https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/article/20140916165037-106728160-want-to-get-hired-in-silicon-valley-here-s-how?trk=nus-cha-roll-art-title
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Sep 17, 2014 01:19
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MC Fruit Stripe posted:Windblows? I'd expect to hear that from like, the guy with the sweetest gaming rig on the helpdesk, but farther than that I'd expect a little decorum. In my day, I was known as the MS BOS
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Sep 25, 2014 05:59
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Zorak of Michigan posted:I need cover letter advice. I've posted a couple times about my situation - underneath all the mergers and acquisitions, I've been in effectively the same UNIX SA/manager/architect line for 15 years now, so I'm paid very well, but I'm in a non-promotable spot that's going to leave me with unmarketable skills when it all finally comes to an end. I'm applying for a job as an IT security analyst. It's a big step down in terms of pay but I think I could live with it for getting back into a job where I'm learning useful stuff and have some possible hope for advancement. I'm wondering if I should say something my cover letter explaining why someone with 20 years of UNIX experience is applying for a much less senior position, or wait to be asked. I would include something to the effect of "Experienced administrator/architect/whatever seeking to transition into the information security field" and they can ask the why. It might actually help to downplay your seniority, as sad as that may seem. I like the proactive move, I see a lot of people (Cobol devs, anyone?) ride that bus til the very end of the line, and then get stuck without a seat when the music stops.
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Sep 25, 2014 21:07
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Tab8715 posted:Yea, I don't think being a 20-year unix veteran is anything but highly desirable? I'm a little shocked you wouldn't be able to find a unixy gig supporting HP-UX,AIX or Solaris. As we speak, I actually do have a great enterprise-level Solaris/AIX contract role, and have them a few times a year. Cobol, DB@, etc I don't think I've ever had in 3.5 yrs. This is only my little (medium) market though. Zorak, to be clear by what I meant, I might look at downplaying the management portion. Not only does people management imply that you are more hands-off, but it's definitely more of a perceived "step down". Anyway, just my 2 cents. Hard to tell without knowing more about your situation. As a (very general) rule, I tell almost everyone to consider switching companies/roles every 3-5 years (unless your situation is airtight) so you don't end up getting silo'd.
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Sep 26, 2014 14:02
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FISHMANPET posted:So, I'm an anti-social autist myself, so I realize I'm not an accurate representation of an "average" person. But for me, personally, if I'm a user and I have some kind of issue, I'd rather the issue get resolved quickly than getting lots of "yes we're working on this" type stuff without any actual resolution. Having come from the support world, I've always maintained that IT support is 50% technical and 50% people skills. A key part of the latter is managing expectations. There are a lot of ways to do this, but the fact is, people want to know what's going on and why they can't work. If I'm an end user, let me know what the deal is. Give me an update and maybe an ETA, and if that deadline isn't going to be met, maybe a brief explanation as to why, so I can explain to my manager or other people it affects. Face to face may not always be feasible, but it's always appreciated whenever possible. To put on my recruiting hat, imagine I have you submitted for a role. Should I just keep my head down as weeks go by without any word from the client, or do you want updates every week? Don't you at least want the "perception" that I'm doing something, even if I'm just waiting on word from a client (or in your case, escalated to T3 or something). Gaining customer trust is really the most important thing in my eyes. Building that rapport will give you a nice cushion when the poo poo hits the fan and you have something that can't be fixed in a timely fashion. If your customer knows (or has the perception that) "FISHMANPET is a great tech, and as long as he is on the job, it's getting handled", then it makes your job much easier. Another example: I would teach my techs that the first thing they should do in showing up at a client site is pull up the run box (with Windows+R, not the mouse) and run an ipconfig followed by a renew or ping /t depending on the results. Sure, sometimes it helps and sometimes it doesn't, but 9 out of 10 users will be like "woah, this guy knows his stuff" and rather than look over your shoulder they would go on about their business, knowing that their problem was being handled by a pro. Anyway, my two cents. Hope it helps. vvvv that's pretty much the tl;dr for my post vvvv Dark Helmut fucked around with this message at 18:29 on Oct 2, 2014 |
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Oct 2, 2014 18:14
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Misogynist posted:Regardless of technical acumen, the person on the other end of the issue doesn't see or doesn't internalize the relationship between the human contact and the time to resolution. They see that someone appears to be working on their issue, or that nobody appears to be working on their issue. Right, and as we see so often in this thread you have to step outside of your personal vantage point and try and see things through another person's eyes, in this case the end user. Even if that person's eyes are illogical and inefficient. It really is a skill as important as being technically sound. Dark Helmut fucked around with this message at 19:23 on Oct 2, 2014 |
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Oct 2, 2014 19:21
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FISHMANPET posted:But in that case I'm the one on the other end of the issue. I'm the "user." I choose the route that gets me the fastest resolution, and I'd think everybody would want the fastest resolution. I'm not disagreeing with you that it's less efficient, but trying to play devil's advocate. Have you had a talk with your manager about why he needs you to go there? The conversations he is having at his level (with your end users' managers and/or his boss) are likely driving that mandate. Maybe you work in a company where he needs you to be visible to justify the cost of having you on board. A good boss tries to shield you from the BS he deals with and there could be a bunch of reasons you may not see, so I would just have a conversation. If your boss isn't open to hearing your thoughts/concerns, that's a red flag to me, so just ask and see what comes of it.
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Oct 2, 2014 19:51
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Skipdogg, thank you for articulating that 100x better than I did.
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Oct 2, 2014 21:09
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You got served.
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Oct 3, 2014 14:21
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In the time we've all spent going back and forth discussing your propensity to avoid human contact, you pretty much negated any time savings you would have had vs putting in face time with your user base. 
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Oct 3, 2014 18:18
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go3 posted:A good interviewer will get you to volunteer that info "Tell me about what you do outside of work" gets em every time. I have conversations with people all the time where we discuss kids/marriage status etc. My interviews are pretty informal discussions though. And maybe I'm a little different even though I can potentially be a direct employer, but if someone refuses to discuss salary with me in a face to face meeting, I probably won't work with them because it's a sign they are going to be difficult to work with. I actually get paid more if I get you more, so not only is it in my best interests but it's a key part of having that honest conversation about where you are now and what's going to make a job change make sense for you and your situation. I acknowledge though, that I probably wouldn't recommend giving up salary or other personal details without building a level of trust first.
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Oct 6, 2014 17:01
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Sickening posted:While I am sure you make more when the employee gets more it still doesn't change the fact that your first priority is to get the employee into a range where the employer is going to easily accept. Your goals are just not totally in line with the employee. Like a mechanic diagnosing your car, I am in a position where people trust me to represent them and do what's best for them, and not gouge them just because I find a way. So when I interview people, I typically am interviewing them proactively and not just for one specific position, so the salary has to be discussed objectively. I ask for two numbers that I use to help qualify jobs for you: 1. What is the range you are targeting, i.e. how much do you feel you should be making in this market? 2. If I have a position that is ideal in every other way, what is the salary/hourly number I don't call you below? Again, if we are having a transparent discussion about what is a good fit for you, salary is just another factor like commute time, healthcare, company size, etc. It's just a much more grey area than the others. Just throwing out there that getting all bent about discussing salary doesn't always help you and can hurt you, unless you have a skill set that is really(really, really) in demand. Dark Helmut fucked around with this message at 19:39 on Oct 6, 2014 |
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Oct 6, 2014 19:36
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KennyTheFish posted:Smoke weed. Every day?!
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Oct 16, 2014 04:45
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DrBouvenstein posted:stuff QA is an extremely marketable skill set and my top QA people make every bit as much as senior devs. Assuming you have good interpersonal skills, you are an arm and a leg over most QA people (this is a generalization, because there are a LOT of foreign/H1B testers) so why change fields? It sounds like your company might be in the decline so I'm trying to wrap my head around why you are switching into a more competitive arena just to stay around. Admittedly, I have no idea how long you had been testing, or if you even like it. Or how the market is where you live/work...
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Oct 17, 2014 17:37
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Sickening posted:I just had an interesting recruiter call. lol. Shameless... For real though, in right to work states like VA and possibly beyond, CtH is very, very different than contract, and is in fact more like direct hire. In my state, you can be fired at any time for any reason, so there really is no more security in full time roles, it's just perceived that there is. A CtH is just a different way for companies to onboard a full time resource, similar to buying a car with cash up front or making payments (6 month contract to hire). In addition, it's sometimes actually an advantage for the employee. If you find yourself in a job that you hate, would you rather show that you left a full time job after 6 months (or be trapped!) or would you like the natural escape hatch that CtH provides so you can just call it a 6 month contract? There are no guarantees in a CtH, but if you have a good recruiter and make the most of your conversations with the hiring manager, you should feel good about it before you go in. Anyway, that recruiter just sounds like another one of the idiots that gives us a bad name. /recruiterspeak
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Oct 17, 2014 20:43
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I read on your resume that you aren't interested in contract positions, does this also go for "contract to hire" positions?
Since the only difference between the two is a small promise then yes, that does include "contract to hire".
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I totally DaF'd this thread... I'm glad to know that the term "resource" bothers some people, so I'll try to be more careful how I use it. But with that said, aren't there a lot worse things to be called than a "resource"? Doesn't that imply a you have a fair amount of value? Yes, on a tactical level, I don't want to ever be referred to as a resource, or a number, or anything other than my name or title. But when we are talking about a position I'm trying to fill, not the person I am trying to fill it with, "resource" is a placeholder for "person with desirable talents". Misogynist posted:I'd love to know which companies you work with that pay their FTEs' entire annual salary up front By this I mean they pay my agency fee up front in a lump sum as is the norm for direct hire.
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Oct 18, 2014 19:36
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Misogynist posted:Do you mean your fee structure doesn't follow a standard 90-day cliff, or that you refund a pro-rated portion if the hire doesn't work out? There are absolutely protections in place to protect them from me sending over a shitheel. Depends on the contract, but yeah 90 days is common. I'd typically replace the person if he doesn't work out. I was referring to the way they pay though. Typical direct hire is up front, net 30/60/90 or something usually, whereas CtH is obviously spaced out over 6 months where we take on the employee and they pay us a higher hourly. One of the drivers for CtH: A lot of times IT managers for medium/large businesses have to get HR approval for large sums paid to agencies (typically 20-25% of first year salary) whereas they usually have more direct control over consulting dollars. So they onboard the "resource" via consulting, then have the right to hire them free after 6 months. Anyway, not sure if that's news to you or not, but that's what I was getting at and how it works in an "at will" state like VA.
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Oct 18, 2014 20:53
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psydude posted:Hey, speaking of CF and the area where you recruit. . . He is amazing. I wish I could make glasses that would allow me to see the world through his eyes just for a few minutes. And to Che, I get what you're saying. I don't think I ever specifically talk about a person, much less address someone in a recruiting email, as a resource or anything like that. But I'm sure now that you brought it to my attention I'll catch myself doing it...
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Oct 19, 2014 03:19
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It's really dependent on the size of the shop (lines get blurred often in smaller environments) but chances are if your company issues you a headset and you take calls all day, you're helpdesk.
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Oct 19, 2014 15:40
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Ian, I have a client seeking a resource just like you.
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Oct 20, 2014 07:44
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I'm not sure what a "bellend" is but I'm fairly certain most of us were one at 21. We usually just don't realize it until 5-10 years later. Ah, in the US we just call those people "dickheads" Dark Helmut fucked around with this message at 19:36 on Oct 21, 2014 |
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Oct 21, 2014 19:02
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hackedaccount posted:Yo, Dark Helmut! That's not a hard and fast rule. Some of my clients only want me to submit 2, and some there is no limit. If there is a limit though, I don't know that I've ever been able to "unsubmit" someone, nor have I had a reason to. I'm not saying it can't happen, it's just not something I want to do if I can help it. I will say this though, and this is where it might go off the rails and ruffle feathers. If a candidate calls me about this job and I have better candidates, yet THEY INSIST they want to be submitted then I have a dilemma. From an ethical standpoint, I should tell him to find other representation and I've done that in the past. However, if I think they are a really good candidate for other roles and I want to retain their confidence, I might tell them I've submitted them. Again, this is ONLY in cases where I truly know they are overpriced or underqualified in relation to candidates I already have in play, but they force my hand. This stuff probably doesn't happen that often. I'm just as guilty as other recruiters about not calling people back unless I have an opportunity for them. The fact is not everyone is a great, marketable candidate and there is only so much time in the day. I do my best, and I think I'm better at it than most, but I'm far from perfect. I would suggest following up with the recruiter proactively (just not every f'ing day/week!) and hopefully they will be receptive. If not, it's obviously a sign... Heading out to a lunch meeting so let me know if that answers your question well enough.
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Oct 22, 2014 16:32
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chocolateTHUNDER posted:Thanks, what MS cert should I aim for first? And yes, dealing with users is part of the reason why I'm aiming to go more "behind the scenes" so to speak MCDST always(ok, almost always) tells me a desktop guy has his poo poo together and is serious about what he does.
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Oct 22, 2014 18:19
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Plus that poo poo just interests me way more than "This website won't load, my printer won't work" etc.
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DropsySufferer posted:I'd like to give full story for the whole event. I went to that first interview for the help desk position just thinking I was going to see another recruiter but it turned out the job was working for the for the staffing company itself. I made it to level to 2 then 3 coming up now, ugh these interview stages. If he's being overly pushy, blow him off and make him sweat. If I ever come across as pushy, I've failed somewhere along the line. Whether he is getting commission shouldn't really matter to you. Is this job or isn't it the best fit for you in your situation? If I remember your original post correctly, I think the real mistake you made was committing verbally before you were through the process. Depending on how small the town/market is where you live, you could be burning a bridge. It's perfectly normal to have two opportunities and let each one know you're interested but have to go through the motions. Just need to set their expectations - "I'll have an definitive answer on x day"
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Oct 22, 2014 20:52
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b0nes posted:For those of you who said A+ was bullshit gently caress you! This is the hardest i've worked in school in a long time. um best of luck in your career wearing a headset E: I make that snarky comment and realize that at this moment I am actually wearing my headset.
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Oct 23, 2014 15:01
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Fiendish Dr. Wu posted:Funny/True story: I just searched for "OneGet" in twitter and the first tweet was a pic of a giant black cock. Of course I'm at work. Insert "package manager" joke here
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Oct 27, 2014 20:52
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And the biggest challenge with being a "loving awkward nerd" is that you aren't blessed with the ability to know that you are indeed a loving awkward nerd.
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Oct 27, 2014 22:41
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I wouldn't ever ask questions centered around "what can you do for me?" until you get the offer. Tell me about my typical work day. Tell me about the makeup of the team, structure, personalities, skills, etc. Tell me what you love about this job, what makes you get up and go here every day, etc. Are there any concerns you have about my ability to perform this job effectively? Just a few to start with... vvv I like that vvv To go along with my "Tell me about" theme, "Tell me about your best employees, what makes them successful?" or something along those lines. Dark Helmut fucked around with this message at 18:38 on Oct 28, 2014 |
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Oct 28, 2014 18:13
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Also, everything is relative. Here in my mid-size market, $30-35Kish is normal for helpdesk roles. Other places 25K may be the median. I think in this thread we do a disservice when we apply the "you're getting screwed bro" and other generalizations without knowing the full context, or at least some of it.
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Oct 29, 2014 14:18
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Fiendish Dr. Wu posted:I don't know how to feel about this post That's a gamble at best. I think it's totally reasonable, almost regardless of market.
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Oct 29, 2014 14:32
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evol262 posted:Mostly, don't misrepresent, but I think the difference between "I've used Linux as a hobbyist" and "basic Linux skills" is larger than many people realize, and telling me you have "basic Linux skills" is going to make me ask a bunch of questions you'll bomb or assume you have knowledge you don't, then you'll feel like you took a test and I'll feel like you lied to me. This is accurate. I interviewed a guy today with 1.5 years of QA experience, mostly in manual testing. He's trying hard to find his next role, and his resume reads "2 years" and "manual and automation using QTP". He's used QTP before, but on his resume he is selling himself as more of an expert in it so I told him to dial it back. Any interviewer worth anything is going to pick that right apart and DQ him, whereas if he is totally honest and doesn't BS it, he instead becomes a candidate worthy of consideration because he isn't BSing. Just be able to speak to the bullets on your resume, people.
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Oct 30, 2014 19:43
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Tab8715 posted:What would you want to see on a resume instead? Off the top of my head, a few pointers I give every day: In general, the truth - as common sense as that sounds. Assume if it's not on the first page people won't read it. Use a summary as opposed to an objective. ie "here is who i am and what I can do for you" vs "this is what I want" For the love of god, use bullet points and not paragraph format. No one wants to read a story book. Have a keyword repository by all means, and call it your "Skills" section. Just don't put anything on there you aren't comfortable speaking about. Be sure to put your top and most marketable skills near the top of each job description. Por ejemplo, if you were the 1 IT guy in a 100 person firm and you're going for a sys admin job, don't put "troubleshot desktop issues" for the first bullet. Anyway just a couple pointers. Make that first page scream "Interview me, bitch!"
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Oct 30, 2014 20:00
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^^^ learn how to BS ^^^ Seriously though, networking is huge. To win a job doing something you've never done, you have to either have direct experience or convince someone to take a chance on you. Refs/networking can bridge that gap. Alternatively, get promoted within. Misogynist posted:I used to interview this way, and maybe it's just the effect of 12 years of IT experience in developing my cynicism, but put someone in a room with an interviewer and every word out of their mouth is basically bullshit. Everything a person says in an interview dresses up their accomplishments and downplays their failures. At best, their responses will make their successes look like an individual triumph, while their failures look like the team failed to execute. And, in truth, success or failure very often hinges more about the team than any individual on it. The level of bullshit only increases with the actual competency of the candidate; this is the only way executive pay can be explained. I think you're absolutely right, there are a lot of paper tigers out there. References are a key part of vetting people out too. Both direct (given by the candidate) and indirect (I know someone he worked with). I pretty much insist on talking to recent supervisors and I steer clear of non-IT or noon-recent refs. This is where is really helps to be in a reasonably-sized market. There are about 3 degrees of separation in IT in my town, so I can almost always find someone who knows you, whereas you go to DC and it's a crap shoot. Dark Helmut fucked around with this message at 20:07 on Oct 30, 2014 |
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Oct 30, 2014 20:03
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skipdogg posted:Truth yes.
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Oct 30, 2014 22:11
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jaegerx posted:Those who can do. Those who can't recruit. Or those that realize "doing" is not their calling leave it to the pros and find an easier path to making a six figure income while helping others accelerate their careers. Good generalization though... You're probably the 1 out of 100 people I talk to where the conversation ends with a curt "best of luck in your search". Dark Helmut fucked around with this message at 06:32 on Oct 31, 2014 |
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Oct 31, 2014 06:29
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jaegerx posted:Seriously? This guy is bragging about his 6 figure income on placing people into jobs when his only real role is reciting the questions the techs wrote down for him and then transcribing them for the techs to review. So yeah, I had a few beers after hockey last night and came home to find your statement more objectionable than I do this morning. After a cup of coffee, I just find it childish and I probably should have ignored it. Part of me wishes I had phrased my comeback differently, but I didn't so let's keep the party going. I am not and will never be here to white knight the staffing world. It's a pit of snakes and I get why there is so much animosity. All it takes is one bad experience... I lurk and post here to see just what some of these objections are so I can make sure I'm not doing them. (like calling people resources) However, I maintain that as an IT professional it's well worth your time to build partnerships with a good local recruiter or three. They are your extra sets of eyes into the market and might be able to toss you a life raft if your ship suddenly sinks. It's true, I do what I do to make money. But I think we all do, don't we? But part of the job I love is mentoring. Helping others find a job or change career trajectory is hugely rewarding. Since (while trying 6 different ways to insult me) you asked, I don't have a degree. I got about 2 years into my Info Sys program and then I got offered a sweet desktop gig at a "major financial institution" and I bounced out and ran with it. It was 1998 so they were literally handing out IT jobs then. Sorry, no student loans here. While doing that job, I also managed a bar a few nights a week. After that I was an independent contractor for about 7 years, doing commercial and (gasp) residential networking/desktop/server work. That job was a hustle, and I learned that I was more interested in the customer/relationship piece of the job than the tech part. I love technology, grew up on computers, still love gaming, and I like keeping tabs on the new tech stuff. There is no degree in staffing. I'm not the smartest guy in the world. I probably won't do this forever. But I enjoy it immensely and it's exciting. No 2 days are the same and there is always a new fire to put out. As to your description of what I do? Yes, some days I do some keyword matching. But unlike Venkat the remote recruiter from 6 states or an ocean away, I meet almost all my candidates in person and get to know them. I also meet my clients and visit their offices in the hopes to understand their culture and needs better. Clients pay us to bring them top talent and specific skill sets, but they also pay us to find great junior people with good potential. In short, we function as an extension of (or directly as) their HR department. I don't need to know everything about every technology. My knowledge pool is an inch deep and a mile wide. It's just a bit deeper on the infrastructure side than app dev because I used to do it. My role is to have the people skills you so clearly don't have. Just like the guy from Office Space. Best of luck in your search. Dark Helmut fucked around with this message at 14:27 on Oct 31, 2014 |
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Oct 31, 2014 14:25
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BurgerQuest posted:Recruiter question: I'm in a relatively small industry, and I've recently come across a job posting that interests me a lot. Unfortunately I'm very worried that if I submit my CV directly word will get back to my current company. Is there a protocol for this? I know a few recruiters who operate in this industry, would they be able to put me in with some kind of anonymity? Or is this just something I have to wear. I would talk to the recruiter(s) and get their take. Explain your situation down to the "who can't find out" level and see if they can help you. It's pretty rare, but from time to time I'll submit a resume with last company and name removed, but it's usually piggybacked with a call over to the company explaining. It kinda necessitates an existing relationship with HR or the hiring manager. If your industry is that small though, it's not like it's going to be hard to figure out so ymmv. This is where it really helps to have a trusted recruiter who will shoot you straight even if they can't help you.
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Nov 3, 2014 14:53
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BurgerQuest posted:Thanks, I bit the bullet and submitted it anyway, since it was posted directly on a job site by the company itself rather than an agency. I just noted in my cover letter that confidentiality was appreciated given the size of our industry. Not much more I can do than that I think. Can't win if ya don't play!
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Nov 3, 2014 15:10
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