Kung Fu Fist gently caress posted:

how do you feel about the syrian civil war and the subsequent spillover of jihadists into neighboring countries? are you an assad man or do you get down with isis?

Neurolimal posted:

Neurolimal posted:

stopped following the Syrian civil war a while ago, Assad is poo poo but I'm not sure if any of the parties fighting against him will be any better, I don't feel like there's a clear enough answer there to argue for any intervention. Only thing I'm certain of is that whoever ends up taking Assad's place is going to be funneled shitloads of US money to be another Egypt

ISIS sucks but at the same time kicking the rear end of the shitshow of an army we left in Iraq means kurds benefit so vOv, we certainly aren't gonna be winning hearts and minds running in to blow them up

Kung Fu Fist gently caress posted:

you dont like isis? so what is it about their brand of violent sunni jihad that differs from hamas brand of violent sunni jihad? is it that hamas really sucks at it? did hamas get the short end of the stick in terms of starting position and resources?

quote:

“Sderot has had four days without the sounding of rocket alarms in the last eight years,” she said. “Four days. Why Sderot of all places? 20,000 people live here. Who cares? When they initially started to construct what we call the home-made Qassam rockets, they were very crude. They were very inaccurate. I mean they were inaccurate by a kilometer or two. And their range at the beginning was only five or six kilometers. They have since grown. But when they fire from the northeast corner of the Gaza Strip and they want to make sure Israelis feel it, the largest target they have is Sderot. They get a target which is clear, which is obvious. And that's why Sderot will continue to be the one that gets hit. It's within the range of the lethal inaccurate rockets, and it's the largest target on the horizon.”

Just to the north of Gaza along the shore of the Mediterranean is the city of Ashkelon, which was also routinely hit by Hamas rocket fire. The power plant is in the southern part of the city and therefore the easiest target there for Hamas to hit.

“The power plant is around seven kilometers away as the crow flies,” Colonel Eisen said, “or as the rocket flies. The city of Ashkelon itself – because the power plant is at the southern edge of it – is nine or ten kilometers from the northern edge of the Gaza Strip.” Much of Gaza’s electricity is generated by that plant, and yet Hamas takes great pleasure in shooting at it.
...
The city of Kiryat Gat has also been hit by Hamas rockets recently, and many Israelis find that disturbing.

“Kiryat Gat means something to us,” she said. “It has the only factory for Intel chips outside the United States. The make the chips there for your computer in the city of Kiryat Gat. Kiryat Gat was hit, as were many of the other cities within the radius.”
...
Thousands of rockets have fallen on Sderot. And every rocket launched at the city triggers an air raid alert. Everyone within ear shot has fifteen seconds to run into a shelter. Imagine sprinting for cover 5,000 times. Do you know what it's like raising children in that kind of environment? It distorts their perception of the entire world.

Michael Yon visited the border with Gaza just after I did. “According to a pamphlet from the Sderot Information Center,” he wrote, “a kindergarten teacher asked her pupils, 'Why does the snail have a shell?' The children answered in chorus, 'So it can be protected from the Kassam rockets.'”
...
“The small number of physical casualties is not because their weapons aren't working,” he said. “The small number is because the population understands the protection guidelines. They know that they have fifteen seconds to find shelter.”

Fifteen seconds is plenty of time to reach a bomb shelter if you're already next to one. But what if you're outside? In a car? What if you're asleep or taking a shower?

“You have to remember,” Major Deutsch said, “that the damage isn't the number of physical casualties, it's the number of people with Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder. The kids in first grade in Sderot were born when rockets were being fired at Sderot. They have lived their entire lives having to think that when they leave the house, when they're walking down the street, when they're playing ball, that they have fifteen seconds to hide from an incoming rocket. And it's not only the kids, it's the parents. I have a friend who won't drive with two kids in the car. If the alert goes off he doesn't want to have to ask himself which of his kids he is going to save. He and his wife don't go out to weddings, bar mitzvahs, or things like that at night because they don't want to leave their kids with a babysitter.”

IDF officials say that in the years prior to last month’s war in Gaza, Hamas fired far more rockets at some times of the day than at other times. “Those times were between seven and eight in the morning,” Major Deutsch said, “and between six and seven at night. Between seven and eight in the morning is when everyone is leaving their home. They're on their way to work, and their kids are on their way to school. They are farthest away from protected spaces and most vulnerable. And in the evening Hamas wanted to be the opening item on the evening news. The school is a choke point. You have kids leaving from all the different places around the city, but they have to congregate around the gate to enter the school. And you'll see that they target areas near schools.”

“How are they able to target the schools?” said my colleague Max Boot from the Council on Foreign Relations.

“When I was little I built Estes [model] rockets in my house,” Major Deutsch said. “We bought them in a kit. We had a slide rule where we figured out at 45 degrees how far it could fly from the amount of time the engine works. It's very basic geometry. Hamas checks and tests their weapons. They know how long a rocket burns, and they know how long it flies.”

“It's not just a question of targeting the schools,” Colonel Eisen said. “It's also about the hour. When kids are out and about all over the city, when parents are taking them to school. If we educate the population on how to live within this kind of environment, we can radically reduce the number of casualties. For the people of Sderot it's the most obvious. They're not the ones who stand outside and look at the rockets. They hear the alert, and they run into the shelter. They have ten to fifteen seconds, and they know that. They've kept themselves alive here. Sderot doesn't really have casualties now.”

“The explosion on impact is lethal,” she continued, “and the explosion goes up, so all the instructions in Israel are for you to lay down flat and put your hands over your head. But if it lands right next to you, it doesn't leave you a lot of room. A woman protected her son in Beersheva a few days ago. They got out of the car, they lay down, she was laying over him, and he got a fragment in his head. He's been in critical condition ever since.”

She showed us a house across the street from a school. A rocket exploded in the front yard the day before. The family was watching TV in the living room and ran for shelter as soon as they heard the “incoming” alarm. They would have been killed if they hadn’t because shrapnel from the explosion tore apart their living space. Their outdoor furniture at ground level caught on fire and the exterior walls were pocked with shrapnel holes that looked almost like bullet holes. The windows were, of course, broken. The house looked as though somebody had parked in front and assaulted their home with automatic weapons fire and a grenade launcher.
...
Michael Yon added up the number of pounds of explosives they’ve packed into their Qassams – 140,000 – and ran the numbers. “There are many types of fragmentation hand grenades that are designed to kill people,” he wrote. “One of the most widely used, the deadly American M67, contains a little more than 1/3lb of explosives per grenade. (The entire M67 grenade including fuse and casing weighs 1lb.) This means that 140,000lbs of explosives would be roughly equal the ‘net explosives weight’ of about 350,000 grenades launched randomly against civilians.”

“We have to remember not to underestimate Hamas,” Major Deutsch said. “Okay? They're not stupid. They know what they're doing. Even if it's a primitive weapon, it's effective.”

“Do you have automatic counterbatteries for the rocket and mortar attacks?” said Mario Loyola from National Review magazine.

“No, no,” Major Deutsch said. “Because if they fire a mortar from inside a school, we don't want to automatically shoot back.”

quote:

n his Twitter account, which has grown drastically in popularity in recent months, Khalfan epitomizes the current bitter rivalry between Qatar, the Muslim Brotherhood and Hamas, and Saudi Arabia and Egypt, both fierce critics of Hamas. Khalfan is firmly in the camp of the latter axis, in which the UAE stands alongside Egypt and Saudi Arabia, and his dislike for the Muslim Brotherhood is reportedly well-known.

Khalfan also slammed the Hamas rocket attacks from the Gaza Strip, telling the group, "make the rockets devastating or do not launch them at Israel in vain." He added sarcastically: "Allah helps opposition leader (Khaled Mashal) who is staying in a seven-star hotel."

quote:

According to Israeli news website NRG, quoting As-Safir, a leading newspaper in Lebanon, a source close to Hamas said, “Talk is cheap. While we praise [Hassan] Nasrallah’s views and likewise, the views of the leadership in Iran, we want to see real actions that shake the borders of Arab countries with Israel.”

The source blamed Hezbollah for its noncommittal approach which, he said, could cost Hamas dearly. “We do not expect Hezbollah to torch the northern front with the enemy, but we expect to see actions that warm up the border.” In comments hinting at Hamas’ dire standing – then 24 days into Israel’s Operation Protective Edge in Gaza – the source added: “Why are they making it easier for Israelis? Why are they waiting for Gaza to fall?”

Kung Fu Fist gently caress posted:

are you an assad man

Neurolimal posted:

tbh I'm surprised childish nihilstic milbabies aren't all up on hamas, considering they're poor as heck but still do a ton with practical insurgent methods, while israel is a nation of incompetent conscripts that get billions of dollars in tech toys but somehow manage to miss five dudes walking up to an outpost, opening the unlocked door, and shooting ten retards in broad daylight

Omi-Polari posted:

Is there is any empirical data to suggest terrorism insurgency is an effective political tactic at forcing concessions from state actors

Neurolimal posted:

tbh I'm surprised childish nihilstic milbabies aren't all up on hamas, considering they're poor as heck but still do a ton with practical insurgent methods

Neurolimal posted:

american revolution, continued existence of the taliban, rise of ISIS in capturing Iraq territories outside fortified cities, apartheid activists acc. to the ruling afrikaners, civil rights dep. on your opinion on the black panthers' methods, malaysian insurgents acc. to that cool poster from a page or so ago, plenty more from there

the thing is that when they win, they stop being called terrorists

Neurolimal posted:

malaysian insurgents acc. to that cool poster from a page or so ago

iyaayas01 posted:

and lol if you think the Black Panthers accomplished poo poo through violent means other than scaring the poo poo out of whitey and bringing down a couple decades of repression on the American inner city/persons of color in the name of fighting drugs and law and order.

Omi-Polari posted:

even if you support the palestinian cause how can you look at hamas and not be deeply depressed

Neurolimal posted:

it's mostly the fact that they're super conservative without willing to negotiate, suicide bomb civilians, have no reason to exist, and there's cooler people in the territory to support


meanwhile hamas is conservative but not to the extent of executing christians and enforcing super-sharia law, stopped suicide bombing civilians long before the occupation walls were raised, were democratically elected, exist to provide resistance in support of an independent Gaza Strip, and there's nobody else willing to keep up the fight for Palestine in the strip


tldr isis exists to take land from iraq to impose a crazy fundamentalist regime, hamas exists to defend what little of palestine is left untouched by settlements

Neurolimal posted:

tbh I'm surprised childish nihilstic milbabies aren't all up on hamas, considering they're poor as heck but still do a ton with practical insurgent methods, while israel is a nation of incompetent conscripts that get billions of dollars in tech toys but somehow manage to miss five dudes walking up to an outpost, opening the unlocked door, and shooting ten retards in broad daylight


gallant allocates less than a billion dollars/year to building smuggling tunnels for their citizens, organize what businesses and ministries exist, and defend against an enormous threat on their borders

goofus gets billions of dollars, wastes 225 million dollars worth of ammunition leveling apartments and hospitals, throws a hissy fit that their dumb ol blockade is being smuggled around, retreats because they weren't expecting the enemy to be able to shoot their cars, and shoots its own captured soldiers to avoid negotiating the release of hundreds of wrongfully imprisoned citizens

Neurolimal posted:

because they manage to exist and keep Gaza from getting separated into 50 pieces like the West Bank, the mere fact that the gaza hasn't been picked apart by settler vultures alone is a reprieve from all the reports of Israel shelling yet another UN building that sent the IDF their coordinates

quote:

First off, have you actually seen Hamas' terms? Thats not negotiation. Hamas is the poster child for militant groups who are unwilling to negotiate in order to restore peace. They have been long before ISIS even dreamed of existing. And when your loving charter states that you are dedicated to the destruction of Israel, you are not negotiating in good faith with Israel.

quote:

ISIS doesn't exist to take over Iraq.

quote:

Ah yes. Practical insurgent methods. Like using civilian human shields.

quote:

Incompetent? Israel's military is a lot of things. Incompetent isn't one of them. Reminder. At any point they think they have a green light from the international community they will have an espresso version of the 6 day war. In about 6 minutes they will annex a smoking crater that use to be Gaza. If you really want to argue this, then you aren't very bright. Their military capability is that
good. Their military, competency wise is probably the best in the world. Their only limit is size.

Omi-Polari posted:

What has Hamas accomplished since except provoking the Israeli army to come back and smash the place up every two years.

Genocide Tendency posted:

Their military, competency wise is probably the best in the world.

Genocide Tendency posted:

Reminder. At any point they think they have a green light from the international community they will have an espresso version of the 6 day war. In about 6 minutes they will annex a smoking crater that use to be Gaza. If you really want to argue this, then you aren't very bright.

iyaayas01 posted:

Uhhhhh......no.

They got their asses spanked by Hezbollah in '06. The myth of the invincible all powerful IDF is just that, a myth.

They're good, and they're probably better than the majority of NATO (lol like that's saying much), but best in the world? Not even close.

e:


You're basically describing the situation leading up to and during the '06 war, which...did not end well for them.

Genocide Tendency posted:

What are you talking about?

Neurolimal posted:

lol if you think any concessions to black people during the civil rights era came from the soul-touching words of MLK, and not the threat of violent resistance if peaceful resistance failed

i mean black people still get a ton of awful poo poo in america, but at least they can theoretically go to the same public schools as white people

Obama Africanus posted:

Hi, OP here.

This is the Manishewitz Jewish Thunderdome: By Jewish Thunderbird.

When it's the KFC Sporting Complex: By Type 2 Diabetes and Hypertension, we can get down to debating if the black wife beater and pretty word speaker in chief really did raise up the coloreds (The C in NAACP, so don't you loving get indignant with me you faggoty little D&D poo poo). Or if it was really a bunch of dudes dressed up like re-run refusing to get snuffed out in 'nam intimidating the cliff baby draft dodgers that managed to get outta Kent State alive.

What I'm saying is, no Vietcong may have ever called Muhammad Ali's rear end a friend of the family, but I'll call anyone named Muhammad a mud until SJW faggots like you learn to pick up a rifle and get a revolution going instead of doing Jazz Hands in Zuccotti Park and sending muds money via Paypal.

Jesus Christ I hope my brand of regressive conservatism takes hold, because there'll be hearings for you goddamn kids sending your buttcoins and tweets to the muds. When my people have our way, you'll be in the FEMA camps singing spirituals and harvesting blue tarps in the lower 9th ward.

Until then? Suck start my loving well circumcised schmeckel, you loving muddy buddy.

Genocide Tendency posted:

Incompetent? Israel's military is a lot of things. Incompetent isn't one of them.

Sjurygg posted:

Which kind of explains why Israel is still the lesser of the ME shitholes: they actually take failure to heart and try to do something about it as opposed to just shrugging it off and say inshallah.

DarkCrawler posted:

Neurolimal posted:

unrelated to dilz but didn't you use to have a cool JJJ avatar

or am I thinking of another dude with dark in the name

DarkCrawler posted:

How do you think the pure Jewish state is going to stay Jewish when over half of the people inside its borders aren't Jewish?

DarkCrawler posted:

They've lost 60+ people against loving >>>>Hamas<<<<, the half-starved mongoloid baby of terrorist groups/insurgencies. Incompetent might be a too light of a word to describe the IDF of 2014. When they have to do anything that isn't carpet-bombing penned-up Palestinians or herding up those Palestinians to the pens in the first place they get their asses rightfully kicked. They have what, a ten-to-one superiority to Hamas in literally everything, be it numbers, technology and munitions they can use? IDF is the trust fund baby of the world's militaries, it has lot of cool toys and it's been led to believe its the hot poo poo all its life. Put in a combat situation that actually involves the enemy seeing you before you bomb the poo poo out of them and they become pathetic.

I don't know why they went into Gaza in the first place, I guess they started believing their own propaganda about the TERROR TUNNELS.

IDF's glorious history is a myth anyway. There hasn't been a single war where they didn't have superiority over their enemies in majority of the aspects. Kinda puts a dent on the whole David and Goliath thing, huh?


...which is why they've continued to build settlements for the last four decades despite the world telling them to cut it out, strangling any chance of a functioning Palestinian state ever existing and burying the two-state solution and the Jewish state with it. Israel is its own worst enemy when it comes to making the Jewish state a lasting enterprise instead of a historical footnote like apartheid South Africa. In couple of decades when U.S. has finally had enough of its poo poo and the rest of the world is finally free to act on their burning loathing against Israel...how do you think two-state solution is going to work when there are probably a million Jews in West Bank?

(It's not going to work)

How do you think the pure Jewish state is going to stay Jewish when over half of the people inside its borders aren't Jewish?

(It's not going to stay Jewish)

Genocide Tendency posted:

Ah yes. Practical insurgent methods. Like using civilian human shields. And storing their weapons/rocket systems in schools. And using school yards as launching sites. Practical, yea. It is, because when Israel takes them out faggots like you cry about the civilian casualties. Rather than, you know, the terrorists using schools as tactical locations.

Genocide Tendency posted:

You have no understanding of ground warfare. You also have no understanding of the inherent disadvantage of having to fight against guerrilla tactics in an urban environment.

And by the by, every military force has issues when they have to take action beyond carpet bombing or precision guided strikes. Boots on the ground equals bodies in caskets. Its not a difficult math problem.

Or did you miss the entire OIF conflict.

Or did you miss the entire OEF conflict.

Or did you miss any time the US had to wade into a jungle.

Israel is better at it than most. Losing 60 to Hamas in Gaza isn't incompetent. If they were losing 60 a day in Israeli cities then we could have this discussion.

quote:

"Evidently they had never heard that an Arab soldier is supposed to run away after a short engagement with the Israelis."

- Unidentified Israeli Soldier

Obama Africanus posted:

My av covers the strategy nicely, when you tag team it with some covert sterilization programs and a dash of אַמביציע we can go pretty far.

DarkCrawler posted:

Yet Palestinian population grows massively year by year. Too bad for Jews they're not really all that good in this whole genocide/ethnic cleansing thing if you look at the numbers.