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The Mash
Feb 17, 2007

You have to say I can open my presents
Let's change the topic.

How does high-end League of Legends compare to custard? I've tried low-end League and compared it to jam but I am specifically wondering about high end League vs custard in this case.

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The Mash
Feb 17, 2007

You have to say I can open my presents
A legendary Skarner skin would be literally the most boring thing in the world

The Mash
Feb 17, 2007

You have to say I can open my presents

Servaetes posted:

This is probably the worst opinion in the entire universe

You're right, that dumb Udyr skin was worse

Higsian posted:

How has LCS been lately? Last time I watched C9 just poo poo on everyone and it wasn't especially great. Is it more even right now and worth catching up on?

Also holy poo poo TSM has no original members remaining, although Dyrus kinda feels like an original to me.

LMQ has joined the LCS and they are the best thing to happen to western pro LoL since m5 kicked in the door at IEM Kiev back in early 2012

The Mash
Feb 17, 2007

You have to say I can open my presents

Roland Jones posted:

Ah, wow, that's pretty crazy, yeah.

Also, the Infinity Edge is the go-to first purchase now for ADCs? Wow I've missed a lot apparently. What happened there?

Dorans Blade was moved back from flat health regain to %Lifesteal so a couple Dorans Blades can function as a ghetto Vamp scepter and Bloodthirster was nerfed.

The Mash
Feb 17, 2007

You have to say I can open my presents
Dorans Blade (often x2) -> IE+Berserker Greaves -> PD or Shiv - shiv for instant powerspike, PD for better scaling -> LW -> Bloodthirster 4th item -> Banshees/GA/QSS defensive item around this point


The real trick to IE rush is that it opens up more options for buying. If you have 1400 gold when you back, pick up your 2nd Dorans and a pickaxe. If you have 1600, buy a BF and a health pot to go with the one Doran you started with.

The Mash
Feb 17, 2007

You have to say I can open my presents

exethan posted:



Wrong, it's time to ryze.

Nope, I checked my watch and it's definitely time to Yi. Your watch must be broken.

The Mash
Feb 17, 2007

You have to say I can open my presents
Am I the only one who really feels like the thread title needs one less N? It seems it like was spelled that way on purpose but I just don't get it

The Mash
Feb 17, 2007

You have to say I can open my presents

Libertine posted:

Really enjoyed playing Miss Fortune tonight. Kind of sad that it took a pink explosion skin to make me want to play a bunch of games on her. Just got to a full item game and won to close the night.

Welcome, friend, to the best team. At some point you owe it to yourself to rush Brutalizer first item and then just laugh and laugh and laugh when a double-up bounce does 30% of the enemy ADCs health.

The Mash
Feb 17, 2007

You have to say I can open my presents

GreyPowerVan posted:

Our shaco went mejais and occult and won the game 28-0 a few weeks ago. I wish I knew who he was.

He was the reason why you remember your ABC: Always Ban Clowns

The Mash
Feb 17, 2007

You have to say I can open my presents
Just got Quinn in ARAM, she really is the worst champion isn't she. I'd rather play Urgot than this piece of garbage

The Mash
Feb 17, 2007

You have to say I can open my presents
Are you guys seriously having trouble controlling clones/bears/whatever? It's like the easiest thing in the world.

The Mash
Feb 17, 2007

You have to say I can open my presents

Libertine posted:

Since you are the resident Fortune expert, what would you say the ideal six-item build is on her? Normally I would just check Probuilds, but literally zero pro players play MF regularly, which I think is kind of ridiculous but I understand why because she just gets picked off relentlessly in pro play.

The way I look at Marksman builds generally are that I want:

1x Life Steal Item
1x Item that builds out of a Zeal
1x Last Whisper
1x Infinity Edge
1x Defensive Item
1x Zerker Greaves unless I'm doing some kind of CDR Gimmick or playing against a 4 hard CC team and then I might build treads.

[...]

If I had to build a Brutalizer/Ghostblade I don't know where I would fit it in, probably in the 2nd slot after the IE, but I always feel the same way about the Ghostblade and that's what do you cut from a full AD build to build it? Maybe the Triforce? I don't know.

Once I finished that six-item build IE/ER/LW/TF/BV/Boots, I felt like a massive beast.

I'm still not sure what build is optimal for new MF besides the obvious answer of "depends on the game".

Old MF was simpler: Stacking straight AD with both LW and BC and a late PD was enough that you'd basically win every teamfight where you didn't horribly waste your ult.

Now, the formerly best AD item gives 20 less AD and while MF still scales on AD, she does a substantial part of her damage as magic damage, meaning LW and BC are less useful.

At the moment, I'd only do Brutalizer in one situation: I get a small lead early and back with ~1400 gold. Pick it up and dominate them in lane and guarantee a kill as soon as your ult is available if your support isn't literally asleep. In that scenario, I usually go IE into PD next and just sit on the Brutalizer. It is such an incredibly efficient item that the lack of optimal upgrade paths for MF doesn't even matter. They could rename it Dorans Brutalizer and remove both upgrade paths entirely and I'd still buy it early in many games. Eventually you turn it into a Ghostblade or, if you have an AD-heavy team with no other BC, then BC.

MFs biggest powerspike now is laning phase before the first completed item on either side. She's a Draven-level bully with fewer conditions to her damage. As a rule of thumb, I always feel like it's best to build to a champion's strengths rather than their weaknesses (early Shiv on Tristana being an exception). On the first buy, I always pick up whatever gives me the most power right then and there. 1350 gold? Phage and a pot. 1400? Brut and a pot. 1600? BF and a pot. And so on. Two Dorans Blades is good. Three is less stupid than it seems. If you do Zerkers/IE/PD/3x Doran, your midgame will be monstrous.

I feel like Trinity Force has to be either first or second after IE or not at all, but it can work on new MF since her Q and W are both more spammy now.

I have a personal vendetta against Shiv and will never build it ever unless I'm Tristana and falling behind early or some poo poo. Phantom Dancer4lyfe. MF can duel most other ADCs on similar items and come out on top so I like to take advantage of that with PD which shits on Shiv in 1v1s.

Essence Reaver is a total waste on MF I think, I'd much rather get BT, especially the buffed one that's very good now.

A couple of full build variations could be (in building order):
IE/PD/LW/BT/defensive item
IE/TF/LW/BT/PD (or same with TF and IE switched)
IE/PD/BT/LW/defensive
IE/PD/BT/LW/BC
or the Cop variation that I bust out now and then in long games that need serious carrying:
IE/PD/BT/LW/IE

E: In solo queue I almost always buy a pink ward on the first back unless I'm sitting at a gold value where that makes no sense (like just enough for BF). Drop it in tri if blue side and in tri behind the tower towards blue buff if purple side. The latter will save your life at least one time, guaranteed, and has never not been worth it for me.

The Mash fucked around with this message at 12:49 on Aug 15, 2014

The Mash
Feb 17, 2007

You have to say I can open my presents
I just had an Evelynn jungle rage out and alternate between feeding, afk'ing in fountain and suiciding to wolves because the enemy ADC dc'd from the start and we said in all chat we'd let him free farm up to level 6 when he came back as level 1 a few minutes later. He accused us all for "not wanting to win" because we gave the guy a chance and then demonstrated how much he wanted to win himself by dying to wolves and sitting in base. Some people. Apparently the rest of us on the team were all cancers for not kill-farming a level 1. We suggested he gank other lanes or maybe take dragons with us or something but nope, had to kill the level 1 or the game is forfeit.

The Mash
Feb 17, 2007

You have to say I can open my presents
In this case the Tristana was level 1 and I was a Caitlyn who could literally kill her in an auto+ult combo so it didn't make much sense to "give her my best". We would have easily won it with my massive CS advantage as well as the two free Dragons Evelynn could have collected if she had pinged us there instead of typing in caps from the jungle

The Mash
Feb 17, 2007

You have to say I can open my presents

Chocolate Donuts posted:

So I'm interested in learning about Zac, whose jungle game I assume is positively impacted by the new Golem stone. Anyone got any advice other than "get huge, eat candy"?

Ask your team to protect you early, especially if you're against Elise/Lee Sin/Kha'zix junglers, because you're gonna get counterjungled

The Mash
Feb 17, 2007

You have to say I can open my presents
Technically, if you just want to maximize DPS, on some AP champions, multiple DFGs are the way to go as well. I don't know how the math checks out on a mana-heavy Archangel build now but otherwise the highest damage would be Deathcap, Zhonyas and 4 DFGs for capped CDR

The Mash
Feb 17, 2007

You have to say I can open my presents
I think the lack of boots or any movement speed item would screw you first to be honest

The Mash
Feb 17, 2007

You have to say I can open my presents

Saki posted:

People tryhard in aram? What the gently caress, goons.

I'm a sore loser and as a result I tryhard everywhere, no matter what. I can't play Go Fish with my young cousins without tryharding, seriously.

The Mash
Feb 17, 2007

You have to say I can open my presents
In World of Warcraft, it was definitely a thing for whatever reason.

The Mash
Feb 17, 2007

You have to say I can open my presents

Endorph posted:

The main thing with ADC is that the fun part comes after like 20 minutes of right clicking minions and occasionally trying not to get killed by Jarvan IV.

The problem is that even if you manage to not get killed by Jarvan IV for those 20 minutes, by the end, that other guy still gets to continue playing Jarvan IV, so he got the sweeter end of the deal there too.

The Mash
Feb 17, 2007

You have to say I can open my presents
I would lower the duration-scaling on Morg's Q and, if I had to hit her hard, make any spell that does damage to her shielded target also CC the target as appropriate. Though thinking about it, that would instantly lower her winrate by 10%.

The Mash
Feb 17, 2007

You have to say I can open my presents

Brannock posted:

I'm genuinely not concerned about being banned. I know it sounds petty, but I'm bothered that there's a significant segment of the playerbase that immediately reacts to poo poo like this with "You're being reported". It's not so far removed from "You pissed me off. I refuse to help you win this match."

You're right, this is Riots fault and it's because they're banning too many people just for saying overtly racist and homophobic poo poo

The Mash
Feb 17, 2007

You have to say I can open my presents
Err Vayne easily outduels Tristana in a 1v1 situation. Tristana only has the upper hand when Vayne can't close the gap because there's a bunch of bruisers punching eachother inbetween the two.

The Mash
Feb 17, 2007

You have to say I can open my presents
I'll add that when I say Vayne "easily" outduels anyone, it requires Vayne to land the condemn stun. Otherwise, it's a very close fight. I'd say Vayne wins it midgame assuming level 2 ults and 2 completed items.

The Mash
Feb 17, 2007

You have to say I can open my presents

LeJackal posted:

Quinn top, someone talk me out of doing this.

Quinn is garbage. If you want to throw away your team comp just play Vayne top, at least she scales and can teamfight

The Mash
Feb 17, 2007

You have to say I can open my presents
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aLqfaRr7y0

Leaving this here too

The Mash
Feb 17, 2007

You have to say I can open my presents

Saki posted:

Actually as MF if a Kha'Zix jumps on you, you die uselessly because she is poo poo.

Lol look at how wrong you are. Go stand next to any friendly unit and out-DPS his sorry rear end. MF is many things but as long as you don't fall behind (and how would you do that on one of the strongest lane bullies?) but she is not bad at 1v1'ing squishy targets that dive her.

Asema posted:

I wonder what league you have to be for people to understand what double up does and not be able to bully them safely from behind your minion line. MF allows people to take advantage of bad players.

Still works in high plat/low diamond. Imaqtpie played her like 5 games in a row a few days ago and during the fifth game he started screaming "HOW THE gently caress DOES THIS SKILL WORK" about double-up. He makes a living playing ADCs and he doesn't know how it works.

The Mash
Feb 17, 2007

You have to say I can open my presents

Get Innocuous! posted:

Get two Doran's blades for your lifesteal. If that isn't enough, run lifesteal quints. IE rush is pretty much the standard for a lot of AD carries nowadays.

Yep this. IE or Trinity Rush depending on the circumstances. If I think I'm gonna get dived a lot, I'll get 2 Dorans. 3 Dorans Blade into IE -> PD makes you capable of duelling anyone but you better finish the game at that point because you've gone full Genja and are about to fall off HARD

The Mash
Feb 17, 2007

You have to say I can open my presents

Libertine posted:

Mash have you done IE/Ghostblade as 1st/2nd items on MF? It looks like a few guys have done that on Probuilds lately and I haven't tried that particular combo so I might give it a shot tonight.

Nah but that sort of seems like it's only strong because that item combo is naturally strong on its own right now. MF doesn't really need an(other) on-demand attackspeed buff, though I guess you could argue that it works as a high-damage follow-up right after ulting at the start of a teamfight.

The Mash
Feb 17, 2007

You have to say I can open my presents
Lee Sin is still the best and most well-designed champion in the game and Annie having absolutely terrible design (name me one champion more reliant on a specific summoner skill) is not an argument against that. I'm glad the latest Lee Sin nerf mostly hit his invisible power (the attack speed nerf on Cripple) rather than what makes him so great to play (his mobility).

The Mash
Feb 17, 2007

You have to say I can open my presents

A Stupid Baby posted:

Try playing like, Kog'maw without any summoners and let me know how that works out for ya.

(About the same because Zed doesnt give a living gently caress)

Kog'Maw with Ghost/Heal can function, Ghost isn't THAT much worse for most purposes Kog'Maw needs Flash for, whereas Annie without Flash becomes utterly useless

The Mash
Feb 17, 2007

You have to say I can open my presents

Libertine posted:

Might be my first ranked dodge of the season. Going to put in a support ticket and hopefully get this guy flagged. He called support and then...



You're using brackets on your runes and parenthesis on your masteries, sort your poo poo out man

The Mash
Feb 17, 2007

You have to say I can open my presents

Libertine posted:

Intentional. I don't know why I went with that system but I stuck with it for awhile now. I think it's because I wanted to be able to tell them apart separately at all times when I'm configuring weird special pages.

SlyFrog posted:

Dude, up your organizational shaming game, that's weak poo poo. The brackets/parenthesis difference is quite clearly intentional to differentiate between categories, rather than accidental.

Pff look at you two. It's not like you need to be able to differentiate when you can't possibly mix them up. You're not gonna accidentally put a runepage on your mastery tab.

The Mash
Feb 17, 2007

You have to say I can open my presents
I always pick Vayne based on enemy mid/top/jungle picks. gently caress whatever's in my own lane, I'll make it work. If they lock in Nasus top and a tanky jungler, you bet your rear end I'm running Vayne.

The Mash
Feb 17, 2007

You have to say I can open my presents
I just had an ally Rammus call me a nublord when I told him that armor did not, in fact, soft cap out at 300 and that buying more against an all-AD team was still a good idea. Some people.

The Mash
Feb 17, 2007

You have to say I can open my presents

How Rude posted:

Aren't you in diamond? You think players that high up would know this stuff by now.

This was on a smurf account that I'm levelling with a friend who's just started LoL, but I'm pretty sure it's still Bronze/Silver smurfs I'm matching against at the moment

BI NOW GAY LATER posted:

I mean diminishing returns, but lol

There are no diminishing returns at all. Your only concern when stacking armor is "will HP get me more EHP per gold".

The Mash
Feb 17, 2007

You have to say I can open my presents
From that sample size, you left your team to 4v5 in 1 out of 10 games. At that point, you no longer get to complain about "afkers ruining all my games" at least. Not saying that you did, and maybe that crash was a total one-off, but if you can't complete 49 out of 50 games you queue up for, you're part of the problem.

The Mash
Feb 17, 2007

You have to say I can open my presents

Phenotype posted:

But it doesn't really matter what the cause is anyway - dropping out of a game is frustrating for everyone involved regardless, and if you've dropped a significant percentage of your games for whatever reason, you don't get to complain.

This was the point of my original post. The post had no real content other than complaints about teammates and if you want to complain about something despite a small sample size, you get examined under that same small sample size. Maybe that disconnect was a 1 in 100 for the poster, but that goes for every complaint he had about his allies too. If you're gonna complain about five or ten games, you get poo poo for those same five or ten games.

The Mash
Feb 17, 2007

You have to say I can open my presents
I've completely stopped playing MF in ranked games despite her being my "main" because no one understands her or appreciates what she can do. One thing is that I typically get saddled with passive supports, completely wasting MF's ridiculously strong early game, but no one understands her midgame strength.

I was 10-1-2 in a game that was 12-16 or something like that and I told the team that we'd be fine to win a 5v5 over the next Dragon because I was level 11 and could basically win the teamfight with just my level 2 ult. I figured that fight would bring us back into the game and my lovely top and midlaners could catch up and snowball off of that. Instead, our toplaner, 0-3 or so at the time, told me that "MF's ult is crap now since it does magic damage". I spent thirty seconds pushing out bot while explaining how the ult actually worked and how much damage it does now, at which point our midlaner says "doesn't matter, it doesn't scale on AD so even if you are fed it still does no damage". They then both went into our jungle to farm wraiths and wolves while the enemy team took a Dragon I probably could have penta'd at. At that point I thought why even bother playing MF anymore.

There's also loads of people who don't understand how Double-up works but at least that's usually in your favour because enemy ADCs who don't understand it get poked out of lane before level 3.

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The Mash
Feb 17, 2007

You have to say I can open my presents

Manic_Misanthrope posted:

why do people pick malphite mid? especially into Ahri.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVwQcxglTzo

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